PDA

View Full Version : new Intel based macs?



vrolfak
02-21-2006, 08:52 AM
I´ve seen that the software for the new intel based macs is diferent than that for the previous macs, so the question is:

Will the mac version of Lightwave 7.0/7.5 install in the new intel based macs? or do i have to wait for an upgrade to come out, or another version or something.

the thing is that the Collegue in which i work as a teacher. (3D animation, Lightwave 7.5) is looking to buy a new laboratory, but we have the problem that the software we have now, doesn´t work in the new intel based macs, and thats why they havent bought the new computers yet. I know that some Software need to make a new version for the intel based macs, but Lightwave, being a native of amiga, wich went to PC and then to Mac, i was wondering what will happen there.

Will we have to wait for LW 9.0 Mac to come out? and will LW 9.0 be for the new intel based macs or will it be for the previous.?

Thanks a lot for your time...

Darth Mole
02-21-2006, 10:52 AM
Before LW can be made to work natively on the new Intel Macs, NewTek needs to move its development over to XCode, which will enable it to produce 'universal binaries' which will run on both Power G4/G5 and Intel-based Macs.

Currently, this move is in progress, but there is plenty of work to be done. NewTek's priority, rightly, is to make LW run smoothly and stably on existing machines, although there is some consternation among LW Mac users that it might be some time before LW runs natively (ie, not under emulation) on these new machines.

So LW 9.0 will NOT work natively on Intel-based Macs. This is NT's current statement:

"NewTek is in progress on a port to XCode so that we can provide Universal Binaries to support both PPC and Intel-based Macintosh computers. We will discuss this in more detail as the process unfolds."

Older versions of LW will install and run, but under an emulation layer - termed Rosetta - which means slowly. If at all.

Hope that helps...

Glendalough
02-21-2006, 02:31 PM
Older versions of LW will install and run, but under an emulation layer - termed Rosetta - which means slowly. If at all.

Hope that helps...

IF AT ALL -Has anyone tried to see what happens?

(I know we have been told that 3D is the worst case scenario for Rosseta)

"Protecting our investments...." or some such cr** on the Apple website when referring to our old defunt software, some of it still coming out such as Lightwave 9......

Glendalough
02-21-2006, 02:39 PM
Here is exact quote:

Protect your investment

Here are all the instructions you’ll need: double-click the application icon. Behind the scenes, Rosetta dynamically translates most of your PowerPC-based applications to work with your Intel-based Mac. There’s no emulation. No second-class status. It looks and feels just like it did before. On a Mac, you’d expect nothing less.

Darth Mole
02-21-2006, 03:08 PM
Yeah. Keyword: 'most'

Unwanted
02-22-2006, 05:55 PM
That's great for software that doesn't require a dongle.
Dongle needs a driver.

PerryDS
03-07-2006, 03:53 PM
The question is if and when will lightwave release and Universal binary version of LW 9. Hopefully they are not sitting on it until LW 10. The Mac Intel systems have potential, and I would really like to see how they perform natively with LW.

RedBull
03-07-2006, 09:55 PM
LW 8.x works in on the Intel Macs, using Rosetta emulation which means it's not native and will be slower than it should.....

NT have no set release date for the UB version of LW....

LW9.0 will NOT be available for Intel Macs, but should work fine under the Rosetta emulation...... Like most mainstream software it's too early for native Mactel stuff...

Johnny
03-08-2006, 11:20 AM
LW9.0 will NOT be available for Intel Macs



OK, then...is LW 9 for OS X still on track to be the OS X-native LW we've been hoping for and hearing that it would be, or still just a port from Windows, and unable to fully harness features of PPC/OS X?

J

PerryDS
03-08-2006, 11:38 AM
No LW9 for intel Macs? Then are we looking at LW 9.5 for intel Macs? LW10? LW18? LW46? Would be nice if these software development companies would come clean with their long-term plans. They all seem to dwell in the nebulous regions of non-committment. They appears almost squemish about committing to anything at all.They say what they don't plan on doing, but they don't say what they do plan on doing. Atleast there is Luxology who has already full hearted committed to Universal Binary with Modo.

dablan
03-08-2006, 01:07 PM
To be clear, LW 8 and LW 9 are not "native" to Intel Macs. That being said, the will both install and run without issue on Intel Macs. So put your worry aside.

Glendalough
03-08-2006, 01:40 PM
With all due respects to Apple -when they deserve it- this change to Intel really spells disaster. A big expensive mess for people like us (professional level users) to clean up after Steve.

I don't like being negative but really someone, people, must speak out occasionally. IMAGINE THAT MORNING IN SOFTWARE COMPANIES ALL OVER THE WORLD WHEN IT WAS ANNOUNCED THAT APPLE WAS GOING FOR INTEL. What an awful lot of work was created.

This is all being done for the ipod + living room entertainment crowd (60% now, 40% last year). This doesn't spell well for the future. Apple could have got a better PPC chip which would have made little difference at the 2000-3000 dollar level.

It just seems to be in the tradition (look up the Lisa, first modern personal computer starting at 8000 (1983) and ended up being dumped in a landfill to save 30 dollars each. 68k to Powermac, the change to OSX, and a new one every year. These developments ARE quite exciting on one hand, but we could become a victim of the ipod on the other...

Won't rant on, but whatever happened about the 64 bit computing (programs)? This was plastered and boasted about all over the media.....

Don't think NewTek can be blamed for this Intel fiasco....



www.theoilcans.com

Johnny
03-08-2006, 01:51 PM
wow..I'm not sure reality merits the excitement.

the coming of intel macs and software written for them don't cancel out the workability of all other macs (I'm typing this on an old-timey G4 PPC!)

software companies will evolve and update their wares (we hope) whether there's a chip change or not. So, software re-writes are no big new scary thing. Nor are hardware changes. 1984 - 1994 = 68K; 1994-2007 = PPC; 2007 - ? Intel. I don't see anything but a rhythmic change in processors based on good reasons. not like they're doing it every 2 or 3 years..

I guess I'm not seeing the mess potential..it seems that if and when you want to buy an intel mac, it will run software. some time after that, maybe, your apps will be written to take advantage of the new chip.


J

dablan
03-08-2006, 01:57 PM
It's kind of interesting - throughout the forums, both particular like this one and general like the Apple one's, the people making the most noise about the transition or those who are not yet using an Intel mac. I am on one right now, and the only thing that's not working are the Pro Apple apps, which will be by the end of this month. All of my Macromedia stuff runs, Photoshop, LightWave, Modo, Maya - without issue. Is LW as fast as modo under it's emulation mode? No, but if I didn't know better, I wouldn't know the difference.

Glendalough
03-08-2006, 02:26 PM
-Johnny

I'm glad you don't see this as a big thing, maybe I exaggerate.....

Still think there could be a mess potential....I'm not going to buy an ipod for the moment anyway.


-dablan

Yeah, I'm making alot of noise and I'm going to make more!

I'm glad Lightwave is working for you, this is the first I've heard of it though. I was hoping to buy a quad but now will get nothing.....not sure what to do....

All my Adobe stuff is 9, so will need an emulator or upgrade. Was hoping to move on with software, like get 3D stuff such as you have Maya and Modo not buy upgrades of Illustrator and Photoshop which are only going nowhere.....After Effects does still go on a bit but would rather not have to buy it....

As for the Apple apps I only need DVD Studio, but am amazed they are charging, not providing a free solution. With DVD Studio 2 I am probably out of luck anyway...



www.theoilcans.com

TomT
03-09-2006, 07:56 AM
I guess I missed the news here. New chips from Intel are now in some Apples, software vendors are transitiniong (albeit some more slowly than others) to support the new chips. Some will charge, some won't. Some application types will benefit more than others (from the benchmarks, it looks like certain 3D apps that jump on the Apple/Intel bandwagon are benefitting quite nicely). New models from Apple are All but inevitable . . . maybe even a new iPod or two . . .

I'm using a Quad G5 today, Dan is using a dual Intel whiz-bang thingy. LW runs on both as well as it ever did. Maybe in a couple years I'll being using some 8 core monster with Intel brains. In the meantime people will marry and die, afrongs will be dissected in high school biology classes, life goes on . . . Pinkerton does not return . . .

So what?

Someday NewTek will put out a UB version or dump the Mac or get bought by someone else or buy someone else . . . life will continue, technology will advance. The only sureity is that we will likely be a year older 12 months from now and the IRS will be looking forward to a new tax return from some of us . . .

Now could someone please fix the "Make Preview Bug" in LW 8.5? :devil: That's a little more immediate problem.

lordarka
03-12-2006, 03:54 AM
I am not really aching for a MacTel release. On my existing G5, LW's performance is very impressive, and I imagine I'll continue to be pleased with the performance for the next two years or so. Hopefully by then, LW will be Intel native, and I won't have to worry about it.

Arka C.

PerryDS
03-16-2006, 08:35 AM
I do applaud apple for making what appears to be a difficult if not necessary shift. The proof in the performance will be when my MacBook funally arrives and I get to see what performance issues exist. But most importantly what evolves when applications run natively...especially LW.

Would be nice to see the hardware and software companies coordinate their efforts so that native versions of the software can be released within a realistic window after the release of the hardware.

None the less....quite excited to see what results...

Unwanted
03-16-2006, 08:55 AM
if I didn't know better, I wouldn't know the difference.

Have you tried rendering?
Tests (http://web.mac.com/nonplanar/iWeb/lw_macintel/The%20Race.html)


Well at least it runs on Mactel. I won't have a Mactel for at least a year or so from now probably, so my only concern is having LW UB by then. Hopefully that will happen.

mlinde
03-16-2006, 11:08 AM
Yeah, I'm making alot of noise and I'm going to make more!

I'm glad Lightwave is working for you, this is the first I've heard of it though. I was hoping to buy a quad but now will get nothing.....not sure what to do....
What's wrong with the Quad? Apple has a history of supporting hardware for a decent amount of time, and frankly, if you aren't ready to penny up to the intel transition, getting a Quad at this point is your longest PPC solution. What machine are you running now? How old is it? How many of your applications run effectively now?

Look at it practically. Do you upgrade your applications every time a new version comes out? What about your hardware, do you upgrade it every year? PPC applications will be around for a couple of years still, I expect, if only in universal versions. Universal/Intel applications are coming out all the time. Other 3D applications have already made the leap (Modo/C4D), Newtek is planning on the transition after the release of 9.0, Adobe says "up to an 18 month development cycle" which means CS3 could be out before the end of the year as a universal. If you need a long-term investment in a machine, and can't afford the various upgrades to get everything universal, buy a PPC Quad, or something like it, now, with the intention of upgrading to universal applications over time. I still run CS for most of my Adobe apps, and AE 5.5. Browsing the stuff I use most in the dock, I see an average upgrades ranging from $199 per individual application to $400 - $600 for the various suites of tools. For me, that looks like about $2000 in upgrades ON TOP of a machine. I'm not ready to drop that much cash, so I'm getting hardware that will work NOW, for the forseeable future, and I'll worry about the software as time goes by. The PPC machines and applications aren't going away tomorrow, and the Intel ones are coming in fits and spurts. If you need to stagger out your purchases, get working hardware now, upgrade software along the way, and in a little while you will be able to get new hardware of the intel variety, and life will have gone on all along.

PerryDS
03-16-2006, 11:19 AM
To circumvent performance I had the 2.16 chip, maxed the ram at 2 gigs and added a 7200 rpm hard drive. This should bring the performance up another 20 - 30 percent. But what I see, is that the performance of these systems will substantially out perform their predessesors when Universal binary comes out. My choice was based on the reasoning that I require a good laptop system to be mobile that would perform well for the next fout to five years.

nclaws
03-17-2006, 02:16 AM
Ok, well im new here. i just poped in to give you guys a vital peice of info. I have a macbook pro. That i ordered just for workflow and 3d graphics. Lightwave indeed does NOT work on my MacBook Pro. now i am no stranger to the odd program that for some unexplicable reason does not run on a machine. However this is a brand new laptop, with almost no third party software or widgits on it.

I click program, and it trys to load, and promptly dies and shrinks from the dock...belive me...my heart sank. now i have to use it on an underpowered windows machine, or an underpowered imac...

My guess is if it truly does not run on my MacBook, it probebly wont run on the other macs. however, word of hope, Apple is most likely going to move all thire consumer Macs over to intel, they have moved everything but the towers already. Since the Proffesional platform of choice among artists is Mac. it is likely that if NT wishes to keep makeing money, they will work HARD to port a new version. and they should not be (in my oppinion) be worried about backwards compatability. Release another version completely in some way. bundle it together for sure, but please dont spend anymore time then is necessary to create a smooth running port.
BTW- I dont spell check.

Glendalough
03-17-2006, 05:24 AM
Okay i'll make a bit more noise.....

Firstly people seem to want to lie down in front of the juggernaut ........I think a realistic view of Apple would be more beneficial . Like the whole flame war idea of Windows versus Mac is just a waste of energy, greatly encouraged by the said corporations, it just diverts attention from the main issue, the very great faults and deficiencies of both.

I see the Macintosh a bit similar to those 2 cylinder russian cars with a body made of paper mache which everyone both loved and hated.....maybe the old Volkswagen beetle would be a kinder comparison. Windows people would have to pick their own parallel...

The Macintosh is idiosyncratic and thats why I like it. The trouble is Apple is always the future, what it is going to do...but when we get there its the present....

One has to consider the present...this switching to Intel IS a big pain....

I think buying a quad would be a mistake at present.

1- Is it going to go down in price and when?

2- If you think of a year from now, what is the future of the machine? Would it fetch any price for a trade in...

3- What about all the new (and old ) programs being made to run Intel....Each day would bring another step in the direction of obsolescence. Now this is where the cardboard Russian car comes in.....WHO BUT APPLE would put their high end, top, flagship in this ridiculous postion.....ie this is the present position of (one) the world's top high performance computers.....

4 -This 'Universal' idea of software seems to my mind just a pleasant little fiction. (Love the calming (yin and yang) effect of the Logo) Strangely enough, Apple themselves don't seem to be playing along with this and are going straight for a complete Intel. Who says other software companies are going to play 'Universal' and not go for Apple's cheaper and easier solution...



What's wrong with the Quad? Apple has a history of supporting hardware for a decent amount of time, and frankly, if you aren't ready to penny up to the intel transition, getting a Quad at this point is your longest PPC solution. What machine are you running now? How old is it? How many of your applications run effectively now?

Hi mlinde, Thanks for your thoughts.....

I've never had such a perfect computer (G5, single, 1.25gb, first issue 2003). All Applications run effectively, and I mean without exception. Classic is better than it ever was because of force quit, and in Jaguar 10.2.8 there is never trouble with Lightwave 8.3 (and 6.5 & 7).

And this is the thing, never really upgrade because this causes problems. Find that most programs run better on this machine in 10.2.8 then Panther. Wonder if this is because the machine was made to run this? I know people will say it's only an OS, but feel there is more behind it than that.

Find Lightwave does not run as well in Panther at all, don't know if other people experience this or they just put up with it, and because they have upgraded won't go back. (A few things just won't run in 10.2 and use a laptop with Panther).

For my position, to get another drive to run Tiger on and more memory is probably the solution, and then just wait it out...

PerryDS
03-17-2006, 08:24 AM
I click program, and it trys to load, and promptly dies and shrinks from the dock...

Did you specify LW to run under rosetta emulation? I believe this is not automatically set when you install the application.

dsol
03-17-2006, 10:28 AM
If rosetta can't run LW, I guess you could always install windows on your intel mac and run LW natively that way (gotta love NT for dual-format distribution)

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060316-6393.html

PerryDS
03-17-2006, 10:40 AM
I still haven't heard any banter on whether there is a plan to release an official application that allows windows to run on the intel Macs. Many are excited about the idea, because it would make the Mac systems a well rounded work station for all occasions. It would be like full compatibility with everything...Yowser!

The current hacks just don't jive for common market folks. We need a legimate install solution to insure real performance and proper links to OPENGL.