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jeremyhardin
02-12-2006, 01:00 AM
with LW and blender.

the glass was modeled in LW, imported into blender and used as an obstacle, and then the water was put back out to LW.

rendered with Fprime. (sorenson 3 quicktime)
http://jeremy.lwidof.net/downloads/lw_blender_fluids/jh_fluids4_glass.jpg

openGL (1.0mb):
http://jeremy.lwidof.net/downloads/lw_blender_fluids/jh_fluids4_glass_ogl.mov

render (1.6mb):
http://jeremy.lwidof.net/downloads/lw_blender_fluids/jh_fluids4_glass.mov

Lewis
02-12-2006, 07:29 AM
Looks very nice and i like water color. But why not all in LW, why blender ?

Captain Obvious
02-12-2006, 09:16 AM
Because Blender has fluid dynamics.

Nice, all the same.

Lewis
02-12-2006, 09:31 AM
Because Blender has fluid dynamics.

Nice, all the same.

And you think this can't be done in LW ?

What about this particles+voxels simulation ?ftp://ftp.newtek.com/pub/LightWave/VideoClips/WaterTank.mpg

Jeremy's simulation looks very nice but but this tank simulation from older LW (i think that was before LW8) looks rather nice I'd say :)?

Captain Obvious
02-12-2006, 11:18 AM
To be honest, there's a big difference between the kind of particle dynamics you can do in LW, and "real" fluid dynamics. I think the latter looks a lot better for fluid simulations. The thing you posted doesn't really behave like water. Too many particles are just jumping around. That doesn't happen with fluids. They stick together.

Lewis
02-12-2006, 11:57 AM
To be honest, there's a big difference between the kind of particle dynamics you can do in LW, and "real" fluid dynamics. I think the latter looks a lot better for fluid simulations. The thing you posted doesn't really behave like water. Too many particles are just jumping around. That doesn't happen with fluids. They stick together.

OK if you say so :).

But I can say that LW water tank simulation is very close to real thing 'coz i was making aquarioums for few years and had aquarioum fishes for many years (before i got too much stuck behind computer so i gave up due no free time to enjoy ;)). I remeber that when you shake aquarioum with that small amount of water (often when you clean smaller tanks for fish reproduction what i did once each month) you really get splashes and small particles of water in your face while rest stays in tank ;).

sorry for thread hijack jeremy :).

rvarela
02-12-2006, 12:27 PM
Lewis,

Where did you get that video, if there any tutorial, so I can reproduce that water efect, I need to create something similar, but in my case I need to simulate water falling into a pipe coming from several holes around the pipe.

jeremyhardin,
If I have to use Blender I don't know how much time I must spend into leraning first, do you know where can I get tutorial for the fluid dynamics?

Cheers,

Lewis
02-12-2006, 12:32 PM
Lewis,

Where did you get that video, if there any tutorial, so I can reproduce that water efect, I need to create something similar, but in my case I need to simulate water falling into a pipe coming from several holes around the pipe.


Hi !

as you can see from link address it's on Newteks page, It's under Video gallery of LightWave and it's there for few years now so like i said it's before iI'm pretty sure it's befor LW8. There is authors name and mail so maybe you can contact him for more details.

loki74
02-12-2006, 12:45 PM
I think that Captain Obvious and Lewis are both right. The LW example is most definately NOT physics-based, but fluids do not always necessarily stick together, especially given the case of water, which has an extremely low viscosity. Which is kind of unfortunate for Blender, because the Blender fluid solver uses the Lattice Boltzmann Method, which, as I understand it, takes longer solve as viscosity decreases.

In any case, I think the Blender solution looks better.

jeremyhardin
02-12-2006, 09:32 PM
@Lewis
yeah i do straight lightwave water when i can get away with it. but any type of fluid dynamics that can't be faked can't really be done with particles + HVs. And in answer to your question of whether the above can be done in LW, no. And feel free to try to correct me. ;) LW's particle viscosity is a joke. It's just an averaging of particle directions. It just doesn't look right. here's an older example of blender fluids in LW. again, the interaction and viscosity you see here can't be done with Particles.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=2934100&postcount=5
And besides that, I've spent a LOT of time in particles and HV's. you can get reasonable results in some cases. but when it's straightforward and simple to do it another way, there's no reason not to.

@rvarela
a quick blender fluids tut: http://www.blendernation.com/2006/01/21/fluid-simulation-in-blender/
and the thead about integration: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=303734

Stooch
02-12-2006, 10:47 PM
And you think this can't be done in LW ?

What about this particles+voxels simulation ?ftp://ftp.newtek.com/pub/LightWave/VideoClips/WaterTank.mpg

Jeremy's simulation looks very nice but but this tank simulation from older LW (i think that was before LW8) looks rather nice I'd say :)?

the LW voxels look like crap. sorry.

calculating mere particle collisions and calculating fluid behavior are two completely different disciplines. LW doesnt behave like liquid at all.

also, the blender simulation is a bit too high viscousity and the particle size is wwaaay too big. but looks pretty decent. Im picky because i use realflow, heh, although realflow makes me angry with its horrible LW plugin and support.

siproductions
02-13-2006, 02:57 PM
@ Jeremy: Very cool stuff. Nice to see some fluids for free in LW. Thanks for all your hard work on figuring it out.

@ Lewis: HVs and particles can't come near to the fluid effects like Real Flow or Blender. Blender still has a long way to go but at least it is free. I think this is pretty darn exciting. :)

shaol
02-13-2006, 06:08 PM
I never heard of blender and I'm trying to get it to work but i dont think it works with 10.4 tiger for mac any one else have this problem.

jeremyhardin
02-13-2006, 06:13 PM
i use it on 10.4 tiger for mac. that's what i did the above tests with. what's your problem, specifically?

rvarela
02-13-2006, 10:35 PM
jeremyhardin, Thanks for the links I will start working with Blender this weekend, hoping I can get a good result.
Cheers,

fabmedia
02-14-2006, 12:03 AM
There is a plug-in called FLOW TRACER that was produced by RealFlow. It's an awsome plug that was built strictly for LW particles. It's fast, efficient and boy oh boy, it looks good.

loki74
02-14-2006, 12:28 AM
There is a plug-in called FLOW TRACER that was produced by RealFlow. It's an awsome plug that was built strictly for LW particles. It's fast, efficient and boy oh boy, it looks good.

is that new or something? Never heard of it... link? price? Is it LBM or NSE or something else?

fabmedia
02-14-2006, 09:53 AM
is that new or something? Never heard of it... link? price? Is it LBM or NSE or something else?

No, it's an obsolete plug-in, but it works very well. I managed to bug RealSoft for a couple of weeks and the guys caved in and forwarded the last version of the plugin. I don't know if they would ever do that again, but I'm on a Mac here. They don't support it by any means, and I don't know if they would do it again. It's limited to a maximum of 1500 particles on a particular frame unless you have a license key.

DiscoBurgess
02-16-2006, 03:20 AM
Yeah, the lightwave video looks more like grains than drops. Pretty good, though, and certainly good enough at a pinch.

etobiason
02-21-2006, 03:36 PM
I was impressed by the fluid dynamics on this thread, and downloaded Blender. It won't launch. I'm running MacOS 10.4.4, but I'm trying to download it again. Not sure what "python" is, but I downloaded "blender-2.41-OSX-10.3-py2.4" first, and now I'm trying the file that is python version 2.3... maybe that will make a difference...

-e

fabmedia
02-21-2006, 09:21 PM
@etobiason

Python is a scripting language that you can use to script plug-ins and such. Much like LScript. The latest version of Blender may not work with 10.4.4. I'm not too sure as i don't use the program. Just LW and Modo.

jeremyhardin
02-21-2006, 09:26 PM
works fine here with 10.4.4.

etobiason
02-22-2006, 08:27 AM
I got the Blender 2.41 to launch, but not with Python 2.4... the download that includes Python 2.3 launched fine. It seems to me that the version of python shouldn't matter. Either I'm wrong and it does matter, or the first one I downloaded is corrupt in some other way.

jeremyhardin
02-22-2006, 08:30 AM
if you're on mac, i think OSX comes with a version of Python already installed. Have you tried just downloading blender itself without python? I *believe* that's what I did.

etobiason
02-22-2006, 08:36 AM
Didn't know I could do that. If Blender gives me trouble, I'll look there for possible conflicts. Thanks for the tip!