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lw3d23
02-09-2006, 03:54 PM
I have very bad experience from the past , I should not be overexicted , but this time, i really want to say, newtek did a goob job!:D
The node editor seems very powerful . ACT, Surface Baking Camera.,etc they are all very useful. I don't have to use surface baker anymore.

can't wait other video, especially OpenGL, modelling tools in layout and SSS demo. I am very curious how good Omega (SSS) is.

Intuition
02-09-2006, 04:47 PM
Just finished watching the node video.

I'm very impressed. Its a nice way to approach surface layers without confusing alpha channel problems I've had in the past.

Can't wait to just play with that feature alone. I still want to see some SSS examples. I wasn't sure if the buddha was an example or if that was just a surface thickness material.

Very cool.

jeremyhardin
02-09-2006, 04:47 PM
can't wait other video, especially OpenGL, modelling tools in layout and SSS demo. I am very curious how good Omega (SSS) is.

as i mentioned elsewhere, modeling tools in layout are coming later...




The Future

We are also starting the migration of modeling tools into Layout. This process will be longer and more involved than we first thought, and we are putting a great deal of thought and effort into the design. There are many issues in Layout that need to be addressed in order for us to really open up modeling power in Layout, but we are working feverishly on them. In LightWave v9, you will be able to use any modeler plug-in that works on whole objects. You will be able to use Vertex Paint to modify your vertex maps, and you will be able to create 3D text in Layout. As we work out new UI approaches for these tools, we will include them in subsequent releases in the LightWave v9 series.

Kurtis
02-09-2006, 04:55 PM
I still want to see some SSS examples. I wasn't sure if the buddha was an example or if that was just a surface thickness material.

A SSS-specific video is already planned for the coming weeks.

jeremyhardin
02-09-2006, 05:03 PM
A SSS-specific video is already planned for the coming weeks.
cool! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

lw3d23
02-09-2006, 05:15 PM
A SSS-specific video is already planned for the coming weeks.

any render image this week? really can't wait :D

Bytehawk
02-09-2006, 05:44 PM
nodal texturing ROCKS !!!!!

can't help it, i just need to scream this out at the top of my voice

Panikos
02-09-2006, 05:50 PM
At last they decided to treat users with some seriousness and not like school children.

LW3D
02-09-2006, 06:23 PM
Congrulations NewTek team.. LightWave [9] seems very good.. I hope, it is stable and works / render faster ...

EmperorPete
02-09-2006, 07:18 PM
I just finished watching the nodal surface editor video. I can't WAIT to get my hands on this.

ibanezhead
02-09-2006, 07:48 PM
I think I'm going to upgrade... The node stuff is great.


One area that we recognize we need to further enhance is the character animation system. We want to make sure that we get this one right, and we are going to take the time needed to insure the best results. We are all working very hard to insure that you donít wait too long to get what you want. We hear you.

Can't wait for them update the character pipeline as Jay Roth states...

ih

MooseDog
02-09-2006, 08:09 PM
Nodal texturing and Camera Baking are unbelievable. We can now bake over a network:thumbsup:

The Node Editor looks like something I could spend alot of time with:o :D

VERY glad I took the plunge and pre-paid (something I've never done before).

RedBull
02-09-2006, 08:36 PM
as i mentioned elsewhere, modeling tools in layout are coming later...

"In LightWave v9, you will be able to use any modeler plug-in that works on whole objects. "

Obviously that means some, many modeler plugins will be available in the LW9 Beta.... And Vertex Paint and Text Layers.... So some modeling tools obviously will be.....

jeremyhardin
02-09-2006, 08:41 PM
"In LightWave v9, you will be able to use any modeler plug-in that works on whole objects. "

Obviously that means some, many modeler plugins will be available in the LW9 Beta.... And Vertex Paint and Text Layers.... So some modeling tools obviously will be.....
redbull, you're right. in the thread i was referring to, i said just that:
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showpost.php?p=335640&postcount=58

and in the post above, you'll see that i quoted Jay Roth's letter. I wasn't just making things up or trolling or something.

I think i was perfectly clear above and in the other thread. If i wasn't, well, any confusion should be cleared up now.

RedBull
02-09-2006, 10:48 PM
redbull, you're right. in the thread i was referring to, i said just that:
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showpost.php?p=335640&postcount=58

and in the post above, you'll see that i quoted Jay Roth's letter. I wasn't just making things up or trolling or something.

I think i was perfectly clear above and in the other thread. If i wasn't, well, any confusion should be cleared up now.

I know you were not trolling.. :)
Yeah i know, i just saw "as i said modeling tools are coming later"
And i read another thread the other day, that mentioned no modeling tools to 9.x, which appears to be a little false..... I was just clarifying..

On a differen't topic....

But i have some reservations on Nodal......

I take it Nodal is not available in any plugins or other areas of Lightwave other than the Surface Editor....?

So for example i'm using Hypervoxels, i'm still limited to only using
the T & E layers panels in HV's internals.....
I really wanted to use Shaders on hypervoxels too...
Hang on a minute SHADERS!...... What about sharing shaders?
Clip Maps are not available either? So same deal for them too....
Displacements can be done now....... But not clipmaps?

This seems like a rather unappealing shortcoming..... (Ohhhh so close! :)

WHAT ABOUT SHADERS????????

Now i see IFW2 Textures..... Where is IFW2 Shaders?
Where the **** is the ability to mix current LW shaders with Nodal.....
It seems to be absent? As this is the only thing i want LW9 for.....
As it is i already use TB Shadertree, and there is not enough for me to be excited about, unless i can use SHADERS.....

Please tell me i'm wrong?
I can live without clipmaps...... But if Shaders, Real Fresnel, TB Fakeskin...
Being able to blend and mix, use them in conjunction with FPrime!!!!!

If i can't actually use them in conjunction with LW9 Nodal.....
I'm afraid i was getting all excited about nothing... :(
I really hope i'm missing something here..... PLEASE........ PLEASE!!!!

FPrime could already support procedurals!!!! It needed a way to share Shaders with Nodal, so Nodal could hook with FPrime....
So it seems LW Shader limitation is still in fact a huge thorn in my side...
Speechless.... Dumbfounded, and way disappointed...

Somebody tell me i'm wrong?

Panikos
02-09-2006, 10:58 PM
It depends which is executed first, default LW Shading, Nodal Shading, plugin shaders. This is questionable !
Promos say that "you can use the one, the other or both". This can be interpreted with one hunded ways.
Not 100% certain, we will have to wait a few days.
As far as FPrime, only Mr Worley knows.

RedBull
02-09-2006, 11:26 PM
Yeah really all i needed from NT for LW9 was FPrime Shader Support,
and Volumetrics, and if i was really lucky Pixel Shaders.....

I would of been happy with ONLY shader support.....

I noticed that FPrime support is not listed on the latest updated features page.. :) They added this instead:

"Full SDK Support for third parties to create nodes (including shading models) and for third party renderers to interface with / query nodal shaders"

Double Speak for:

"LW9 will NOT allow FPrime or any other 3rd party, to gain access or share shader information from LW unless they have been completley rewritten as a query nodal shader.....

And also some changes like:
"Using new and improved LightWave shaders"

Double Speak for :
"Not allowing any usage of older shaders"

So while i'm sure a new version of FPrime will be written for LW9...
It's not going to get over the only major hurdle i have with LW's current surface system...... I also know that Richard is in the midst of writing IFW Nodal....


But that leaves Darktree, and about 1000 other LW shaders that are being discarded.....

It's a shame NT did not make a Shader to Procedural bridge that would
take every shader call, and reproduce it as a procedural texture call.....
It may be a little slow, but it's faster than 10 years of LW shaders in my plugins box...

I may as well learn MR shaders, at least they work in Max, Maya or XSI......
NT can't even make their own shaders compatible with Lightwave...

On a side note: I found a bug with FPrime and LW8.5 and Gradients...
I just got a message back from Worley support, they are not sure
if it's Newtek or Worleys problem yet...... But at least they have excellent support..... They sent 2 messages and confirmed it within 24 hours.
(clap, clap, Eyeon and Worley offer unrivaled customer services, kudos)

"We'll let you know as soon as we're able to determine
whether it's a LW or FPrime bug.
Thanks for the example scene!"

But now it hardly seems like a problem...... :(

archiea
02-09-2006, 11:27 PM
can anyone get that nodal shader demo video to play on a mac? Or at least know where the TSCC codec? thanks!

moc
02-09-2006, 11:51 PM
hey...I like the new list manger....Is it can a little bit slim?
look at the pic.

Meshbuilder
02-10-2006, 12:14 AM
can anyone get that nodal shader demo video to play on a mac? Or at least know where the TSCC codec? thanks!

Download VLC-player.

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/14738

BazC
02-10-2006, 12:50 AM
can anyone get that nodal shader demo video to play on a mac? Or at least know where the TSCC codec? thanks!

It plays fine for me on QT7. I think I installed the Ensharpen codec months ago but here's a link to Ensharpen and Techsmith codecs, I think Techsmith is Windows only though (try it to make sure? I can't remember exactly what I've installed)

Techsmith (http://www.techsmith.com/download/codecs.asp)

The nodal editing does look impressive but very intimidating too! :(
I hope the documentation is well written and maybe includes a tutorial or two! - Baz

archiea
02-10-2006, 01:28 AM
thanks guys. I had installed it but it didn't want to play from the browser. So I DLed the movie and then it worked in QT.

Celshader
02-10-2006, 01:29 AM
But that leaves Darktree, and about 1000 other LW shaders that are being discarded.....

I doubt it. That Node video showed the old Surface Editor system intact, with an "Edit Nodes" button at the top. If the old Surface Editor system's intact, your 1000 other LW shaders should still run fine. :o

Twisted_Pixel
02-10-2006, 01:32 AM
can anyone get that nodal shader demo video to play on a mac? Or at least know where the TSCC codec? thanks!

There is a link to the codec below the video file.
Click on the link that says 'TSCC codec required!'

RedBull
02-10-2006, 01:50 AM
I doubt it. That Node video showed the old Surface Editor system intact, with an "Edit Nodes" button at the top. If the old Surface Editor system's intact, your 1000 other LW shaders should still run fine. :o

I think you miss understand.... (but hopefully i do! :)
As i said, i have no sound to hear the video and maybe i missed something.. (i'm hoping) LW Shaders will work as they do now.... (i.e not with Fprime)

New shaders that are made can be made Nodal aware, these will work with Fprime (eventually) I did not see old shaders like Fast Fresnel for example work or update in Nodal....? Or any mention of the old shaders.

I see a tab called Shaders.....
What that needed to have in it, were the standard LW shaders so they could be hooked through Nodal to displacements or hypervoxels for example. All of which should be able to update in Fprime...

I'm sure if Fprime were going to support LW shaders....
They would have it on the latest feature list, as this would be a major enhancement for many i'm sure.

As i said i very much hope i'm wrong, but from what i've read and seen today,
i'm not so hopeful.

As it is there is very little difference between other areas of Nodal the TB Shadertree in terms of features (not integration), that i have not been using for years. When i saw the Shaders tab, i did backflips
When i see that under the shaders tab - that it's not IFW2 Shaders, Gmil, Unreal and Super Cel Shader...... But Blinn, Oren-Nayer, Omega etc.....

That tab needed to contain all my current shaders for Nodal to actually provide me with any benefits.....

MrWyatt
02-10-2006, 02:29 AM
let's wait untill LW9 gets released. guys. this is the featurelist of the open beta and as was stated many times. things will get better to the date it is released to the public. speculations of any sort don't help here. as to the fprime support and classic LW shaders. I think I have seen many statements where in they sayd that the LW SDK and the Nodal SDK would be a lot more open , so I guess it is not the Newtek developers job to make everything fprime compatible, their job is to open up the SDK so that mr. worley can take it and make fprime LW shader and nodal compatible. And I have a fair trust that the newtek staff is doing exactly that, nothing more nothing less. Let's not forget fprime is third party, and I prefer that the newtek developers spend their time developing LW to a point where I don't need fprime, because of improved renderspeed and quality, than having them kindergarten third party developers in a way that they would code LW the way third party developers want them to.

sorry I'm getting carried away again.

my point is, we don't know anything for sure, weather nodal or old shaders will work in fprime or not. it's all just speculations and i ame sure most of them will be proven wrong anyway, mine included.

PS
The video also says that it will be easy for developers to code new nodes of textures, utilitys and even shading models (please can anyone code an ambient occlusion node, as I have seen none in the vid). It also was stated that new nodes are developed by the newtek staff on a daily basis, so we might get a lot more nodes once LW9 gets released. third party developers are developing nodes of their shaders right now, as we can see with the IFW2 textures, so we might get all those nifty things like fresnel, tb-fakeskin and others pretty soon, maybe even during the betastage.

let's all just relax, get totally drunk and sleep through till tuesday, or we might just explode before we even get to play with it.

I actually havent slept a lot after having seen the new videos last night. I kept day dreaming about the cool new features all night.

:sleeping:

BazC
02-10-2006, 02:58 AM
let's wait untill LW9 gets released. guys.

Absolutely! BTW I believe there is an Ambient Occlusion shader in IFW2 I presume it's already Nodal compatible! - Baz

colkai
02-10-2006, 05:18 AM
Anyone else having trouble getting the following vids?
Baker.mov
Persp_Cam.mov

CB_3D
02-10-2006, 06:24 AM
The camera i like, very mch. But the node editor...i donīt know...looks kind of confusing to me. Maybe just a thing of getting used to it...

pixym
02-10-2006, 06:36 AM
can anyone get that nodal shader demo video to play on a mac? Or at least know where the TSCC codec? thanks!


It works on my G4 laptop with Mac OS X.3 and QuickTime 6.5
Not on my dual G5 with Mac OS X.4 and QuicTime 7...

badllarma
02-10-2006, 08:16 AM
ok well I've had a look at the new videos and I love the new list manger great! Just ideal for the type of work I do where I can have 100's of objects or even 1000's in a scene.

What does worry me are these few things
Node editor please make sure this is fully documented as I know what it does but if I was a new user I'd run a mile from it!!! It looks very complicated and for basic editing of surfaces a big over kill glad the old layers system is still in place!!

While the new types of camera are great do we really have to have ANOTHER pannel open? To be honest all these panels opening are getting to be a real pain in the arse!
If it carries on in the minimum specs you will have to start adding two monitors as standard are needed.:rolleyes:

When I read the Lightwave 9.0 specs I'm sure I read
and tool designs that optimize your productivity
the opening of even more pannels in the work space is a mile in the wrong direction IMO

so far so good just a little gutted that not all in the 9.0 features list will be making it into the first 9.0 release. But keep up the good work.

badllarma
02-10-2006, 08:20 AM
hey...I like the new list manger....Is it can a little bit slim?
look at the pic.
totally agree :)

MooseDog
02-10-2006, 09:09 AM
Maybe just a thing of getting used to it...

That's aalllll it is dude! Honestly, a bit of time and texturing will get a ton easier and more flexible. Sounds like the documentation, examples and presets are in place to help us along as well. WTG Newtek:thumbsup:

CB_3D
02-10-2006, 09:51 AM
While the new types of camera are great do we really have to have ANOTHER pannel open? To be honest all these panels opening are getting to be a real pain in the arse!
If it carries on in the minimum specs you will have to start adding two monitors as standard are needed.:rolleyes:


What we need is full docking like in...well..ya know.

Stooch
02-10-2006, 10:05 AM
yeah even with dual 22" running at 1600x1200 i run out of real estate pretty fast. (sometimes i need photoshop open, etc) i can only imagine what the poor shmucks have to deal with on a single 19 or 17 monitor...

badllarma
02-10-2006, 10:09 AM
I did a feature request a long time ago that if we can have all pop up pannels etc to appear within a view port window, it looks like with the new camera tools something like this is in layout (for render output only) but of course I've still to actutually see it.

Also would really like to be able to assign short cut keys to the menu tabs (Create, Modify Map etc etc...) in both modeler and layout. Function keys would be a natural choice IMO

badllarma
02-10-2006, 10:11 AM
yeah even with dual 22" running at 1600x1200 i run out of real estate pretty fast. (sometimes i need photoshop open, etc) i can only imagine what the poor shmucks have to deal with on a single 19 or 17 monitor...

17" thats me :help:

Oh where my object? Oh it's behind the 5 pannels that are open over it DOH..............................................

Lamont
02-10-2006, 12:56 PM
Surface baker cam!! Yes!! OMG!! OMG!! Whooo!!!

In your face space coyote!! LW 9 is gonna rock...

jeremyhardin
02-10-2006, 01:09 PM
Absolutely! BTW I believe there is an Ambient Occlusion shader in IFW2 I presume it's already Nodal compatible! - Baz
BazC, Kurtis said on SpinQuad that there will be a simple ambient occlusion node included with LW9! :D :D


**edit: here's the link... http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?p=118446#post118446 ***

badllarma
02-10-2006, 01:12 PM
ok ok I'm a bit lost here why is "Surface baker cam" that cool? and I'm sure it is with the reaction it's getting.

Because if you move the camera don't you loose the advantage? as your object will then appear differently or will it be ok to move the camera but not the object any one give me a for instance/example?

Just intrested where this will be good to use that's all. :)

Earl
02-10-2006, 01:14 PM
BazC, Kurtis said on SpinQuad that there will be a simple ambient occlusion node included with LW9! :D :D

Awesome! All of the info they've posted over the last day has been really exciting. The node shading system has me very eager to learn new methods of surfacing - especially considering how much more power it's bringing to LW: subsurface scattering, other industry shading models, ambient occlusion...it's just too much to handle. I'm gonna go nuts until Tuesday.

:D :D :D

jeremyhardin
02-10-2006, 01:18 PM
ok ok I'm a bit lost here why is "Surface baker cam" that cool? and I'm sure it is with the reaction it's getting.

Because if you move the camera don't you loose the advantage? as your object will then appear differently or will it be ok to move the camera but not the object any one give me a for instance/example?

Just intrested where this will be good to use that's all. :)
it's good because to bake a surface before, you had to apply a shader to a surface. you don't have to do this tedious step any more (who wants a surface baker shader saved with their object?)

now it's more interactive (since it's just a render and supports viper), plus it's faster since it supports multithreading.

and, you can render sequences with it, from the looks. animated baked surfaces change the game entirely.

Earl
02-10-2006, 01:20 PM
Because if you move the camera don't you loose the advantage? as your object will then appear differently or will it be ok to move the camera but not the object any one give me a for instance/example?
This is completely new to me too, but I'm guessing the Surface Baker Cam is related to the UV coordinates, and thus the positions of the object/camera aren't really important, but rather the position of the mesh on the UV plane.

RedBull
02-10-2006, 01:25 PM
QUOTE=BazC]Absolutely! BTW I believe there is an Ambient Occlusion shader in IFW2 I presume it's already Nodal compatible! - Baz[/QUOTE]


BazC, Kurtis said on SpinQuad that there will be a simple ambient occlusion node included with LW9! :D :D

**edit: here's the link... http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?p=118446#post118446 ***


Good, becuase IFW2 Shaders are not compatible....
IFW2 Textures are supported...
IFW Nodal shaders will be, when it's released.

Elmar Moelzer
02-10-2006, 02:19 PM
I love what I have seen of LightWave9 so far!
Great job NewTek! Really impressive.
I also love the quality of the videos. Really love what they did with the Nodal Editor video. The small bubbles with explanations in there are a really good idea!
Looking foreward to the next bunch of videos!
CU
Elmar

BazC
02-10-2006, 04:04 PM
BazC, Kurtis said on SpinQuad that there will be a simple ambient occlusion node included with LW9! :D :D


**edit: here's the link... http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?p=118446#post118446 ***

OMG! LW9 just keeps getting better and better! :D Thanks for the info!

jb_gfx
02-11-2006, 09:57 PM
can anyone get that nodal shader demo video to play on a mac? Or at least know where the TSCC codec? thanks!

The QuickTime version is in the same folder...
ftp://ftp.newtek.com/pub/LightWave/LW9/Node_Edit.mov

Chuck
02-12-2006, 08:17 AM
I noticed that FPrime support is not listed on the latest updated features page.. :) They added this instead:

"Full SDK Support for third parties to create nodes (including shading models) and for third party renderers to interface with / query nodal shaders"

Double Speak for:

"LW9 will NOT allow FPrime or any other 3rd party, to gain access or share shader information from LW unless they have been completley rewritten as a query nodal shader.....

You've parsed the sentence incorrectly by ignoring the slash character indicating two options relative to one object and have begun referring in this and subsequent messages to "query nodal shaders" as though that's an entity. "Nodal Shaders" are the entity and have been written so that FPrime and other third party renderers can "interface with" and "query" them for any data and values they need to evaluate and render a surface. As mentioned in the LW9 FAQ, we're working closely with Worley Labs and other third parties to refine the interfacing and communication facilities for FPrime and other third party renderers.


And also some changes like:
"Using new and improved LightWave shaders"

Double Speak for :
"Not allowing any usage of older shaders"

Nothing in NewTek's communications is intended to be double-speak for any other meaning. In any case, if we have to work from a concept of translation, "Antti wrote lots of nice new stuff to put into the Node Editor and would like us to let folks know that," would be the translation here.

dballesg
02-12-2006, 11:04 AM
Nothing in NewTek's communications is intended to be double-speak for any other meaning.

I believe you Chuck, I am not trying to be bitchy here, ok? And I hope nobody reading this forums would try to take advantage of my post.

So, can you clarify me one point?

On the LightWave 9 F.A.Q. under Third Party:

"Have changes been made to the SDK to enable the use of third party renderers?
LightWave is known for its renderer (indeed, v9 is currently rendering 2-3 times faster than v8.5), and NewTek will not abdicate the task of rendering to outside interests, as almost all of the other 3D applications in our market have done. That makes no sense to us, given our business model. That said we wonít do anything to prevent such access either, as that would be a waste of resources. Put simply, while we are not specifically going to make support of third party renderers a priority, changes to the code and the SDK will make it easier for those developers to implement their products as time goes forward."

And in the LightWave v9: Feature Preview:
"SDK Improvements and Documentation Improvements"

Resuming, there is going to be a lot of SDK improvements and this improvements are going to be "properly" and "fully" documented?.

I mean that if, we are going to have a improved SDK documentation about the OLD SDK and the new improvements on it?

Because, if as has been stated in the F.A.Q "while we are not specifically going to make support of third party renderers a priority", but " changes to the code and the SDK will make it easier for those developers to implement their products as time goes forward."

I can not see here how you are going to do the life of coders easier if the SDK it is not properly documented once and for all. And no documenting it of course contradict the two prior sentences.

I think that many programmers are hoping for that so we can see a LOT MORE of NEW third party plugins that other programs have, and has not been done in the past due to the lack of documentation and features on the SDK and how that lack scare a lot of programmers. And I do not mean new renderer engines only.

In fact, if you could past this question to higher instances inside of NewTek (I mean the Dev Team), and you can post their answer here, I would thank it to you.

Best regards,
David

lardbros
02-13-2006, 09:54 AM
Wow, i've been away for 3 weeks and how glad am i??!!! I come back to some new vids, and the day before the Beta release!!!

I think a few comments about LW9 not being what they expected is a bit unfair at this stage. Jay Roth has clearly stated that 9 is the beginning of a huge new leap for Newtek. It will take a great deal of time to unify absolutely everything, and therefore this first step may appear to have half-finished functions etc, but i would like to put my balls on the line here and say that by the end of the 9 series, LW will be WELL on its way to superstardom! It seems obvious that making steps into animated modeller tools in Layout (and simply using modeller tools in layout) will take a huge amount of time, but i'm still willing to wait, as the end result will be worth it. I truly reckon that they are headed in the direction that will result in one of the mightiest packages in its crowd!

Well done newtek and the entire team... and Jay Roth is well respected by me personally... i like the hint of comedy in his statements!

KillMe
02-13-2006, 10:18 AM
i keep hearing about people talking about animated modeling operations and modifier stacks etc but i dont see how this is possible with the exisited mesh editing core

to me it sounds like the problems with full modeler functionality in layout is down to being able to select points edges and polys within layout - this amkes sence when you consider that modeler plugins that operate on the whole mesh can be used now

so i'm not expected modeler history any time soon

that asside i'm hugely looking forward to the lw 9.x cycle since never really thought about hsitory functions before so have no use for them that i can think of

what i'm looking forward to most is proper opengl 2 support in modeler but have to wait abit for that =/

colkai
02-13-2006, 11:36 AM
i keep hearing about people talking about animated modeling operations and modifier stacks etc but i dont see how this is possible with the exisited mesh editing core

Methinks you just answered your own question.
The whoel point of all this info is, LW is being re-written, so, by definition, the core is changing from what folks are currently using.

It's kinda like saying, I don't see how they can have Anistropic with the current renderer.
I'd also say here, don't forget that the 9.0 release is going to be the START of a release line of advancements under the LW9.X cycle. something Chuck and Jay Roth have stated. So just because we may not get a feature in LW9.0, doesn't necessarily mean it won't be there come the end of the LW9.X cycle.

lardbros
02-13-2006, 11:53 AM
I've just watched the camera videos and am not too sure what i think of the differing cameras? I SERIOUSLY like the advanced camera, but am wondering if there is a simpler way to implement some of the functions the others do, but without having a separate "physical" camera? Suely just a tick box in the normal cam options could have done it, and then with some properties tabs next to them?

Anyway, these new options no doubt make Lightwave an even greater asset, but it's the separate camera that uses KD-tree etc that confuses me. How come the entire renderer hasn't been altered for the existing "classic" cam? Am i right, or is it simply the perspective cam that will decrease render time (according to their criteria on polygon heavier scenes?)

I am in no way criticising the work being done, just questioning in order to get answers and some reasons why this could be a brilliant system. Although, if new camera models can be developed by 3rd parties this could be an truly great.

Elmar Moelzer
02-13-2006, 01:40 PM
Well just see the Classic Camera as a fallback solution in case something does not work with the new Perspective Camera.
Lets say that Classic Camera (which also has seen a few big speed- improvements from what I understand ;)) is LWs_proven_renderer9.0 and Perspective Camera is LWs_superdiduperdi_new_renderer1.0.
As you know there are often some smaller quirks with 1.0 software- releases and even though I am sure the fellows over at NT are testing the **** out of LW9.0 it might still have a few rough edges here and there. Therefore I am very, very happy that we will have LWs production- proven renderer as a fallback solution (and that one in its 9th incarnation).
Makes sense?
CU
Elmar

lardbros
02-13-2006, 02:31 PM
I have a question I was hoping someone could answer for me. Will the speed increase only be seen with the perspective camera?

Yeah, that's what i asked too... from what Elmar Moelzer says, the original renderer has had speed increases too, but i wouldn't hold me to that!

Tesselator
02-13-2006, 03:06 PM
I can answer this in brief.

dballesg wrote:
I believe you Chuck, I am not trying to be bitchy here, ok? And I hope nobody reading this forums would try to take advantage of my post.

So, can you clarify me one point?

On the LightWave 9 F.A.Q. under Third Party:

"Have changes been made to the SDK to enable the use of third party renderers?
LightWave is known for its renderer (indeed, v9 is currently rendering 2-3 times faster than v8.5), and NewTek will not abdicate the task of rendering to outside interests, as almost all of the other 3D applications in our market have done. That makes no sense to us, given our business model. That said we wonít do anything to prevent such access either, as that would be a waste of resources. Put simply, while we are not specifically going to make support of third party renderers a priority, changes to the code and the SDK will make it easier for those developers to implement their products as time goes forward."

And in the LightWave v9: Feature Preview:
"SDK Improvements and Documentation Improvements"

Resuming, there is going to be a lot of SDK improvements and this improvements are going to be "properly" and "fully" documented?.

Yes and no. All the new SDK functions are "properly" doccumented. The
docs are of a level and nature suited to programmers - and in many cases
even beginning programmers. But that sentence is actualy an evil split with
a good twist.

It means there are SDK improvements (and those I can tell you are SWEET!)
and additionally the LW9 user documentation has been improved. And again
I can tell you that this new manual is not even recognizable to the old one!
More man hours than I care to count have gone into making an improved
manual. I think you may glimpse parts of that manual if you participate in
the public beta but that you will need to ask about as I'm not exactly sure.





I mean that if, we are going to have a improved SDK documentation about the OLD SDK and the new improvements on it?

Because, if as has been stated in the F.A.Q "while we are not specifically going to make support of third party renderers a priority", but " changes to the code and the SDK will make it easier for those developers to implement their products as time goes forward."

I can not see here how you are going to do the life of coders easier if the SDK it is not properly documented once and for all. And no documenting it of course contradict the two prior sentences.

Don't worry, If you know what a structure, pointer, union, or switch / case
are in C/C++ you will be able to follow the new SDK docs. There's not allot
of hand-holding but there is some and not only are the new SDK functions
more powerfull than in previous versions (by FAR - I think) the docs for each
are right there with them.




I think that many programmers are hoping for that so we can see a LOT MORE of NEW third party plugins that other programs have, and has not been done in the past due to the lack of documentation and features on the SDK and how that lack scare a lot of programmers. And I do not mean new renderer engines only.

In fact, if you could past this question to higher instances inside of NewTek (I mean the Dev Team), and you can post their answer here, I would thank it to you.

Best regards,
David

NP, and I understood you... If you already know your language and have a
little expirience with the LW SDK in past versions I think you'll like what you
find in L9.

Tesselator
02-13-2006, 03:09 PM
I have a question I was hoping someone could answer for me. Will the speed increase only be seen with the perspective camera?

No.



And that's a very positive answer. :D

dballesg
02-13-2006, 04:58 PM
I can answer this in brief.

Yes and no. All the new SDK functions are "properly" doccumented. The
docs are of a level and nature suited to programmers - and in many cases
even beginning programmers. But that sentence is actualy an evil split with
a good twist.

It means there are SDK improvements (and those I can tell you are SWEET!)
and additionally the LW9 user documentation has been improved. And again
I can tell you that this new manual is not even recognizable to the old one!
More man hours than I care to count have gone into making an improved
manual. I think you may glimpse parts of that manual if you participate in
the public beta but that you will need to ask about as I'm not exactly sure.


Thank you very much, In fact maybe I must rephrase my question as:
Are the new sdk docs to be as understandable to new programmers as the LScript docs?




Don't worry, If you know what a structure, pointer, union, or switch / case
are in C/C++ you will be able to follow the new SDK docs. There's not allot
of hand-holding but there is some and not only are the new SDK functions
more powerfull than in previous versions (by FAR - I think) the docs for each
are right there with them.


Yes I know what those all means, but that doesn't mean that you can start doing a plugin on C (cause c++ it is not directly supported on the LW 8 and prior sdks). Have a look of many samples in the source directory in the SDK, even if you know several programming languages including c, are really difficult to understand or change due to poor comments in the code and documents.




I think that many programmers are hoping for that so we can see a LOT MORE of NEW third party plugins that other programs have, and has not been done in the past due to the lack of documentation and features on the SDK and how that lack scare a lot of programmers. And I do not mean new renderer engines only.

NP, and I understood you... If you already know your language and have a
little expirience with the LW SDK in past versions I think you'll like what you
find in L9.

Do not misunderstood me, because I know Ernie did a BIG job on the past and he is always helping people on the developers mailing list. But many areas of the SDK need revision / update ;) And I think a more clear language a bit aside from programmers, not totally, but it would help to newbies a LOT :)

And I hope that our lord "Jenison" hears you tesellator!! ;)

Thanks a lot for this and other clarifications.

Best regards,
David