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pepelpue00
02-03-2006, 08:57 AM
Hi:

I am in process of purchasing a 3d animation software, and choices are: lightwave, 3d max, maya. I am going toward lightwave, because is cheaper. But, can you get a realistic human character using lightwave, like the ones you see done on 3d max or maya. They both do nurbs, something that lightwave is not capble of. I have searched on the net and on the newtek site, but I have not come across any realistic looking characters that were created using lightwave (I am interested in produing realistic human charactors not cartoon like or animation like characters.). I like to thank you for your help in advance. :confused: :lwicon: :) :thumbsup:

Nicolas Jordan
02-03-2006, 09:11 AM
Lightwave is fully capable of realistic characters. Lightwave uses a technology similair to nurbs for organic modeling called Meta Nurbs or Subpatch surfaces. I like Lightwave Meta Nurbs better than traditional Nurbs because they allow me to use 3 or 4 sided patches in a model where regular nurbs you are limited to 4 sided patches. In Lightwave 9.0 you will be able to use more than 4 sides in a patch!

Here is a link to a great example of what can be doen in Lightwave for a realistic character http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7860&highlight=pink

It's a work called Think Pink by Werner Ziemerink. You may need to register first though at Spinquad in order to view the picture.

If you check some of the works in progress at SpinQuad you will see some really good human models in the works! :thumbsup:

LW_jackn
02-03-2006, 09:30 AM
Heh...

Is this what they mean by One Hit Wonders?

Lightwave does Nurbs, Lightwave can do realistic characters, like any other program, it's the artist that makes the difference.

Cheers!

spec24
02-03-2006, 11:09 AM
Heh...

Is this what they mean by One Hit Wonders?

Lightwave does Nurbs, Lightwave can do realistic characters, like any other program, it's the artist that makes the difference.

Cheers!

uh... where are Nurbs in LW?

jeremyhardin
02-03-2006, 11:23 AM
...Lightwave does Nurbs...
Lightwave did meta nurbs. Lightwave never did and doesn't do nurbs now. Slightly different things.

(stupid jargon arguments i suppose, but yeah. ;) )

spec24
02-03-2006, 11:30 AM
(stupid jargon arguments i suppose, but yeah. ;) )

Metanurbs was just NT's term for SubD's. Nothing like a Nurbs modeler.

digefxgrp
02-03-2006, 11:30 AM
uh... where are Nurbs in LW?
LW does not yet have NURB tools. LWCad 2 will offer NURB curve tools and ver.3 will...well Viktor can spill the beans on that when he feels ready. :D

jeremyhardin
02-03-2006, 11:34 AM
Metanurbs was just NT's term for SubD's. Nothing like a Nurbs modeler.
that's what i was saying. :thumbsup:

AbnRanger
02-03-2006, 12:58 PM
Industry-wide, nurbs is generally a thing of the past, since the advent of subdivision surfaces, you can model anything you want...with whatever level of realism you want...it's faster to work with...and less complicated. That's why Max has chosen to neglect their Nurbs toolset for several revisions...few people use them. Newtek CHOSE to leave them out for the same reason. Dead weight, they would be for 95% of their user base.
Don't base your decision on whether the package has nurbs or not. Chances are, once you compare SubD modeling to Nurbs, you won't fool with Nurbs..plain and simple.

LW_jackn
02-03-2006, 01:29 PM
Lightwave did meta nurbs. Lightwave never did and doesn't do nurbs now. Slightly different things.

(stupid jargon arguments i suppose, but yeah. ;) )

Heh, yeah ok...

You guys got me...

*Sigh*

SplineGod
02-03-2006, 01:38 PM
NURBS would be much slower to deal with for modeling characters then Subvision surfaces. Getting realistic characters would not depend on using them as well.
Some studios still rely on NURBS because they have older established pipelines that depend on them.
Getting realistic characters depends more on how well you know anatomy and how well you know and use 3d modeling tools. Texturing plays a big part as well as lighting. All these LW can handle fine. :)

mosconariz
02-03-2006, 01:57 PM
an you get a realistic human character using lightwave, like the ones you see done on 3d max or maya.

http://users.skynet.be/fa009830/Face_C_003.jpg
http://www.taron.de/Storage/Images/Demo/Quicko_compare.jpg
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=145071&page=3&pp=15

http://www.worley.com/media/examples/G2/Webpics/G2_akira_pitt.jpg
http://www.renderaid.com/stillsGalleryBrowse~uid~1036.aspx

And... about the NURBS vs Subs... well, Subs are really better and Lightwave introduce them to the industry :thumbsup:

:lwicon: Version 9 will have really great improvements in the Subs workflow... I think LW is a strong package and it worths every dollar.

Cageman
02-03-2006, 02:15 PM
Don't base your decision based on whether the package has nurbs or not. Chances are, once you compare SubD modeling to Nurbs, you won't fool with Nurbs..plain and simple.

True! But I wish that I could do the same in LightWave with SDS as I can do with NURBS in Maya; set the resoluton of the mesh based on camera distance. I've been in a alot of situations where a NURBS-object would render in, lets say 30 sec, instead of like 2 minutes just because I've optimized the scene based on Camera distance!

wacom
02-03-2006, 02:26 PM
The new shadding models in LW9 will make it much easier for LW artists to re-create and go beyond what has been seen in most renders from MR and Vray. Right now we only have phong/blinn if I'm not mistaken. v9 will introduce SSS and Oren-Nayar which should help us get further without as many tricks.

So yes, LW 9 will work for you very well and most sain people use Sub-Ds for organic models like humans these days anyway- regardless of the package. The edge tools in LW9, combined with spline knowledge should get the the rest of what you might want out of nurbs.

Right now LW animation is weaker than the other packages, but that will soon be improving if I'm not mistaken...so animating that real human will get easier too.

Do consider Fprime if you are new to rendering and lighting though...

spec24
02-03-2006, 02:27 PM
True! But I wish that I could do the same in LightWave with SDS as I can do with NURBS in Maya; set the resoluton of the mesh based on camera distance. I've been in a alot of situations where a NURBS-object would render in, lets say 30 sec, instead of like 2 minutes just because I've optimized the scene based on Camera distance!

Cage there's a LOD plugin that does this.. forget the name, something like LOD :D Now with 9 and it's APS this should really be a moot point.

wacom
02-03-2006, 02:30 PM
True! But I wish that I could do the same in LightWave with SDS as I can do with NURBS in Maya; set the resoluton of the mesh based on camera distance. I've been in a alot of situations where a NURBS-object would render in, lets say 30 sec, instead of like 2 minutes just because I've optimized the scene based on Camera distance!

Is that using MR as the render engine? MR seems to handle mesh generation differently than the current LW. Maybe LW9 will have a better method? I've noticed that the MR app I use also chews through Sub-divisional surfaces very quickly when regenerating dense meshes- including when doing sub-pixel and regular displacement that is generated at rendertime. If the new semi-sub-pixel displacement demos are to be believed for LW9 then I'm guessing this will be much better than 8 and 7.

Cageman
02-03-2006, 09:18 PM
Is that using MR as the render engine?

No, this is something you do in Maya itself, so it works with whatever renderer you throw at it.

dean080580
02-03-2006, 09:27 PM
Another one done by THE RIPPER

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v728/dean080580/BMCMap002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v728/dean080580/BMCMap000.jpg

Here is the thread:
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8599

Some more :

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=183940
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=184010
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=183947

Carm3D
02-03-2006, 09:55 PM
Here (http://www.carm3d.net/Media/AlphaOmega/Mugging2.MP4) is one I'm working on.. It's not as good as the others shown here but.. I like it. :p

Exception
02-05-2006, 01:03 PM
where did the op go?

bluerider
02-09-2006, 10:06 AM
Hi:

I am in process of purchasing a 3d animation software, and choices are: lightwave, 3d max, maya. I am going toward lightwave, because is cheaper. But, can you get a realistic human character using lightwave, like the ones you see done on 3d max or maya. They both do nurbs, something that lightwave is not capble of. I have searched on the net and on the newtek site, but I have not come across any realistic looking characters that were created using lightwave (I am interested in produing realistic human charactors not cartoon like or animation like characters.). I like to thank you for your help in advance. :confused: :lwicon: :) :thumbsup:

Heres a LightWave user who have done rather a dandy job digitally modeling human anatomy with lightwave http://www.solidimagearts.com/Digital/digital_intro.html

He's got some great examples in there. The chap who owns the website was able to do that level of modelling after only a month of purchasing his Lightwave?

I would like to add to what a poster has already pointed out though. If your knowledge of anatomy blows regardless of your what 3d app you use, what you produce will probably turn out to look like road kill.

What Lightwave will allow you to do is model very quickly. Perhaps you are already an experienced anatomist, if not, I recomend signing up for life drawing classes?

Here are some anatomy books for artists I would recommend
Anatomy for the Artist- Jeno Barcsay ISBN 1-56619-245-5

Dynamic Anatomy- Burne Hograph ISBN 0-8230-1551-3

Everythink else by Hogarth is excellent reference.

However there are rather a number of approaches to converting your approach to anatomy into a 3D app. I will try and mention two approaches regarding anatomy for the Artist.

One school that will go for an exacting almost medical approach, the poses here are long poses. When transferring that data to the digital 3d tool you have something incredibly useful for medical work and other specialized areas.

Then there is an approach practiced by Classically trained animators whose methodology will be a copoius schooling in gesture drawing.

This relies on a spontanious rapid drawing response to the subject, such as 10 second, 30 second, one minute poses etc. It a foundemental approach when coping with quick probleming solving skills in to regard to hyperbole used 3D Character animation. Classically trained 2D animators have been using this approach since the 1930's at an Art School that is now called CAL arts.

I have to add though that Winsor McKay was intergrating his classical skills with moving images before the First Work War, "Gertie the Dinosaur" yo, its great stuff!

Best regards concerning your endeavors,