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View Full Version : 1st universal binary version of a 3D app out Now



paul summers
01-31-2006, 01:01 PM
The universal binary version of a app whose-name-shall-not-be-spoken is now available to download as a free upgrade.

So come on (NewTek development team) it's good to talk. :thumbsup:
But not with your Mac user's :thumbsdow

jeremyhardin
01-31-2006, 03:17 PM
i'll toss some controversy on the pile:
http://www.maxon.net/pages/dyn_files/dyn_htx/htx/1574/01574_01575.html

and duck out quickly ;)

Ade
01-31-2006, 04:50 PM
Newtek used to be the first...Now they dont even bother anymore, just release statements saying yeah yeah we support macs and love you all....But dont actually release anything.

Newtek was once first to carbonize...Now....?
Newtek puts too much support to windows everything, sooner or later mactels will have alot of say in 3D world expecially with Steve Jobs as part of Disney.

Id gladly pay an extra $100 to my lw if it meant I get all the compatible updates for future technologies released by apple.

pantone
01-31-2006, 05:35 PM
I don't think it's a matter of Newtek not bothering to update. It think it's more a question of priorities. If you have limited resources what do you do? Do you continue to focus on getting your next update out of the door ASAP? Or do you delay that in order to start the MacTel update process?

I'm not defending Newteks lack of communication with users. I think they need to start answering some basic questions...and in a hurry. (Not promise delivery dates or features.) Here's what I need to know in order to continue my investment in Mac LW:

1. Are there plans to make all features and functions that ship with LW9 compatible with Intel Macs.

2. Will there be any speed, realiablity, or feature tradeoffs with a Mactel LW version?

3. Will major plugins like FPrime work with a Mactel LW 9?

4. If LW 9 will NOT be made Mactel compatible what version will be? i.e. Do you expect a free "poiint" update to address the Mactel issue, or will we need to wait for a paid upgrade?

As a user I will assume that lack of information means no information exists. That's a bad thing. Newtek should follow Adobe's lead and announce "enthusiastic support"...and do so publicly...not burried in a forum.

Ade
02-01-2006, 12:24 AM
Sick of the excuses when other smaller companies like lux and maxon are doing it..Trouble is I love lightwave and dont like windows.

DiscreetFX
02-01-2006, 02:54 AM
This thread is not really fair to Newtek, MAXON's CINEMA 4D & Modo 103 were developed after the initial versions of Mac Lightwave, when programming methodologies on Mac were different. Apple says you have to use X-Code now but this was not always the case. Newtek is working hard to transition to X-Code and should be given some leyway. It does not help that Apple changes directions so much, for the better of course but it makes it hard on developers. I am sure Newtek's programmers are doing the best they can.

Lightwolf
02-01-2006, 03:00 AM
This thread is not really fair to Newtek, MAXON's CINEMA 4D & Modo 103 were developed after the initial versions of Mac Lightwave, when programming methodologies on Mac were different.
Erm, not quite. C4D was developed using the same libraries and the same compiler up to the current release.
The universal binary is the first XCode release of C4D.

Cheers,
Mike

DiscreetFX
02-01-2006, 04:27 AM
@Lightwolf

Well, I guess the German's are just very good coders then. The Amiga had/has some fantastic German C coders.

Lightwolf
02-01-2006, 04:31 AM
Well, I guess the German's are just very good coders then. The Amiga had/has some fantastic German C coders.
Nah... (well, true, there was some amazing amiga stuff out there).
Good coders I don't know... brilliant (software) engineers though (but lacking excentricity and vision sometimes).

Hey, I'm allowed to say that ;)

Cheers,
Mike

Darth Mole
02-01-2006, 05:09 AM
Since there are no Intel machines available for proper 3D work, I think we should cut NewTek some slack here. Things have clearly been tough since the Lux guys split - they've had to hire a new team, familiar with the 3D, but unfamiliar with this application. Then they've had to pick LightWave apart line by line and rebuild it - or at least big chunks of it, while still trying to provide lots of free updates. And then there's the move to Xcode. All of these things are non-trivial, and I doubt anyone there has had much of a break recently.

NewTek isn't some major corporation like Adobe - and even Adobe hasn't got a roadmap for Intel versions. Let's see how LW9 shapes up first, before we start making demands...

Lightwolf
02-01-2006, 05:15 AM
Since there are no Intel machines available for proper 3D work, I think we should cut NewTek some slack here.
I understand that there might be a lack of ressources.
Then again, this is not Maya or Shake... apps that are so expensive that you better shell out loads of money for the fastest box to run it on.
Plenty of people use LW on an iMac ... and even more on a PowerBook. And in a couple of weeks they will basically be between a rock and a hard place if they want to buy new hardware.
Mind you, there are plenty of reasons for NT not to be ready yet, your reason just doesn't cut it imho....

Cheers,
Mike

DiscreetFX
02-01-2006, 05:21 AM
Very well said Darth Mole

DiscreetFX
02-01-2006, 05:25 AM
I understand that there might be a lack of ressources.
Then again, this is not Maya or Shake... apps that are so expensive that you better shell out loads of money for the fastest box to run it on.
Cheers,
Mike

I just heard that Autodesk bought Alias (developer of Maya) for $197 Million, what a bummer.

:(

Unwanted
02-01-2006, 08:16 AM
Things have clearly been tough since the Lux guys split

How long is that going to be an excuse for everything?

Can you not say C4D on this forum? Is there any way of knowing how big Maxon is or how much market share they have? They seem to keep beating NT to the punch so I'm wondering if it's because they have more money, meaning bigger staff and whatever else comes with having more money.

jeremyhardin
02-01-2006, 08:31 AM
I understand that there might be a lack of ressources.
Then again, this is not Maya or Shake... apps that are so expensive that you better shell out loads of money for the fastest box to run it on.
Plenty of people use LW on an iMac ... and even more on a PowerBook. And in a couple of weeks they will basically be between a rock and a hard place if they want to buy new hardware.
Mind you, there are plenty of reasons for NT not to be ready yet, your reason just doesn't cut it imho....

Cheers,
Mike
i'm in that tough spot now.

one of the reasons i consistently watch threads like this.

Unwanted
02-01-2006, 08:44 AM
I'm impressed with C4D, but the full version is just more than I can spend, which certainly eliminates Maya for me as well.

Rock - (me) - Hardplace

Darth Mole
02-01-2006, 09:07 AM
How long is that going to be an excuse for everything?

I think as of the release of LW 9, that excuse is dead. This will be the first full point version of the app with the 'new' team in place. I expect good things from here on in.

eblu
02-01-2006, 09:09 AM
Since there are no Intel machines available for proper 3D work, I think we should cut NewTek some slack here. Things have clearly been tough since the Lux guys split - they've had to hire a new team, familiar with the 3D, but unfamiliar with this application. Then they've had to pick LightWave apart line by line and rebuild it - or at least big chunks of it, while still trying to provide lots of free updates. And then there's the move to Xcode. All of these things are non-trivial, and I doubt anyone there has had much of a break recently.

NewTek isn't some major corporation like Adobe - and even Adobe hasn't got a roadmap for Intel versions. Let's see how LW9 shapes up first, before we start making demands...

cut em slack?
why exactly? because they have so much work to do? No way man! I knew that this amount of work was coming Years ago. The "lux guys" you refer to, They Knew. The only sane way to deal with the problem Newtek is faced with, is to start as early as possible, and they Could have started 6 years ago. But they didn't, they just kept sweeping the problem into a bigger and bigger pile under the rug, doing the absolute minimum. Now they have serious challenges, because they ignored the "little problems" and you want to cut them some slack? this is Business! I don't get slack! why should they? As long as i can deliver, I don't worry about it. but the second Newtek's problems become mine... I will fix it. If Newtek doesn't have any way for me to fix it, I will go elsewhere. Then they can have all the slack they need. and what does this mean: "since there are no intel machines available for proper 3-d work"? Thats UnTrue. Any serious developer can buy a Desktop Intel Dev Machine directly from apple. Been that way since Day one.

Darth Mole
02-01-2006, 01:05 PM
I was referring to the availability of workstation-class machines, not dev units. But I misjudged how many people work with LW on iMacs and PowerBooks - as Lightwolf pointed out.

Scazzino
02-01-2006, 01:20 PM
Then again, this is not Maya or Shake... apps that are so expensive that you better shell out loads of money for the fastest box to run it on.

Maybe NewTek should just raise the price of LW again, so people think they need to wait for the "Pro" MacIntel's to run it on...

Just kiddin', I'm duckin' now... ;)

-MikeS

Lightwolf
02-01-2006, 04:00 PM
Maybe NewTek should just raise the price of LW again, so people think they need to wait for the "Pro" MacIntel's to run it on...

Lol... you just made my day. (And, hey, it was a very good day to start off with...).

Cheers,
Mike

Lightwolf
02-01-2006, 04:02 PM
I was referring to the availability of workstation-class machines, not dev units. But I misjudged how many people work with LW on iMacs and PowerBooks - as Lightwolf pointed out.
As a side note... we have an audio studio just up on the next floor that will be facing the same problems soon. Well, that and the fact that their old but expensive ProTools hardware doesn't fit in a PCIe slot.
But they do loads of small stuff on Laptops as well...

Cheers,
Mike

RedBull
02-01-2006, 05:53 PM
Since there are no Intel machines available for proper 3D work, I think we should cut NewTek some slack here. Things have clearly been tough since the Lux guys split - they've had to hire a new team, familiar with the 3D, but unfamiliar with this application. Then they've had to pick LightWave apart line by line and rebuild it - or at least big chunks of it, while still trying to provide lots of free updates. And then there's the move to Xcode. All of these things are non-trivial, and I doubt anyone there has had much of a break recently.

NewTek isn't some major corporation like Adobe - and even Adobe hasn't got a roadmap for Intel versions. Let's see how LW9 shapes up first, before we start making demands...

I'm not a Mac person, but i understand that the figures for Mac/LW seats
is not as far apart as us Window users may think... More importantly
the next few months will see a flux of new Mactels for creative purposes.

This will have an impact, and NT should of perhaps positioned themselves to take advantage of newer technologies a little better...

It's the early bird who gets the worm in these cases, and Modo has enjoyed
the press blitz lately when speaking of 3D and Mactels....
Some free press LW could use instead... Especially important when new hardware and software is coming (opportunity missed)

I agree we must remember NT does not have limitless pockets, like the competition, but your excuse is a little thin.....

In terms of cutting NT some slack, i think we all have over the last 18months,
but at some point improvements have to be made....

And the old Newtek team, have left gone and built a ground up 3D application (modo) into a competitve modeler and soon renderer....
That outshines LW in 95% of the situations, apart from animation.
And it was one of the first to optimize and benchmark on QuadG5's and have a universal binary released. And all without the financial succsess that previous version of the software had given them...

I think when you see what the old team done with the new, in comparison to what the new have achieved with the old, NT have not been pulling a lot of weight.... And one does wonder if they will be able too.....

But i agree NT found themselves in a tough situation.....
I do feel like Modo is LW10, and the rest of us are being flogged a dead horse
with multiple band-aids to stop the bleeding with LW8.x and LW9....

LW9 on paper doesn't seem to be a signifigant step in LW forward direction,
And we are already overdue with LW9...

Modo201 is too, but it will be avialable in March on Macs/Win/and Mactels.
All with updated and upgraded everything....Either Lux is really fast or NT are really slow...

Either way i think NT have already missed the boat on this one....
But maybe being 2nd or 4th to market with a Mactel version will see better optimizations....

On the PLUS side..... We were the first to market a 64bit Windows 3D app.
It's a shame the intital release did not work, and parrallel drivers don't work
and you needed to order a CD which was still corrupt, and then download again, only to find no plugins to usefully use it...... But we was first i tellz ya!

FIRST!!!!.....

My 0.2cents.

And don't get all upset it's just an opinion, no offence or harsh karma vibes
are meant to anyone.

pantone
02-01-2006, 07:24 PM
Well, it looks like Adobe isn't in any hurry:

http://www.macnn.com/articles/06/02/01/adobes.mac.commitment/

jeremyhardin
02-01-2006, 07:43 PM
Well, it looks like Adobe isn't in any hurry:

http://www.macnn.com/articles/06/02/01/adobes.mac.commitment/
fair enough. it's amazing how telling the press something in different wording sounds so much better than nothing more than a post on a forum denoting "we're working on it and we'll let you know when it's done."

here are a couple of statements from the above link that are almost identical to newtek's stance, but assure users so much more in a press release
Adobe today said it would not deliver native Intel versions of currently shipping professional products and that customers would have to wait until future major releases--which could be more than one year away--for native Intel Mac support.
^^^^^
...Adobe refused to provide additional release dates on the native Intel versions of its applications, except to say it was moving its development to Apple's Xcode development platform to help ease the Intel transition and was focused on the next major releases of its professional, which due to planned development cycles would delay the release of any native Intel Mac support.wow. saying the same thing, but i think it makes users get a much better impression. maybe it's just me. maybe it's because the very next words are a direct response to apple's plans...
The company, however, reiterated its support for the new Intel-based Mac platform, noting that at last year's Apple's Worldwide Developer Conference, Adobe CEO Bruce Chizen expressed "strong support" for Apple's transition plans: “We think this is a really smart move on Apple’s part and we plan to create future versions of our Creative Suite for Macintosh that support PowerPC and Intel processors."and again later
"[We are] investing thousands of testing hours in certifying that Universal versions of our applications meet the level of quality our creative professional customers require. This includes testing on the new iMac and MacBook Pro systems that are shipping in the first quarter of 2006, as well as on any of Apple's upcoming Intel-based professional desktop systems."

is it just me that thinks that even though Adobe is saying almost the same thing as Newtek, still newtek could take a leaf out of their book in presentation?

also, there's no offense intended for you chuck. again I know you only relay what you're allowed to relay.

Unwanted
02-01-2006, 11:04 PM
Yes, adobe sounds more polished.

The other thing is, it's Adobe. 14 months. What are you gonna do about it? Oh, they might lose market share? To.....? They're sitting on Photoshop, which compete's with.....? They can release a UB when they're dam good and ready. That's a uniquely powerful position.

Captain Obvious
02-01-2006, 11:44 PM
The only competition they had, they bought a while ago... Hmpf. And people say Microsoft have a monopoly.

RedBull
02-01-2006, 11:55 PM
Yes, adobe sounds more polished.

The other thing is, it's Adobe. 14 months. What are you gonna do about it? Oh, they might lose market share? To.....? They're sitting on Photoshop, which compete's with.....? They can release a UB when they're dam good and ready. That's a uniquely powerful position.

Totally agree arrogance is not attractive, and Adobe are ugly as ****....
But they've got the consumer graphics market to themselves...
And obviosuly Adobe have had some issues Apple in the last 2years or more.

Unlike say Modo which is trying to create marketshare, supporting Intel Macs
from Adobe's position, is not worth an outlay of more money just to get marketshare they already own. Something generally MS and Adobe only can do... Greed is good if your a shareholder, if however your a consumer, your screwed.

Unwanted
02-02-2006, 07:32 AM
I don't want to sideline the topic to Adobe. I said what I said because some may look at adobe's actions and think that it's not a big deal then that there's no word or no apparent urgency by NT to release a UB LW but as a friend's mom used to say, "that's comparing apples and oranges, which has nothing to do with the price of bread".
Adobe has a lock on the market so they can act pretty freely because they're in control. NT is working to regain LW's lost status and catch up while their competitors are charging forward (like C4D being UB). They don't have the luxury that Adobe has.
Autodesk may feel Maya is in an Adobe-esque position and may also wait until it's next major release to go UB.

gatz
02-02-2006, 12:40 PM
Without the pro level desktop MacTels there may be a risk of out running the third party developers. The vib I've received from many of the plugin authors is that they aren't instantly jumping on the latest "big thang" from Apple. Maybe NT is waiting to make sure Mr. Brak is up to speed on the MacTel environment ;)

With a couple of grand of LW plugins I'm not in a hurry to put a MacTel on my desk.

Autodesk on the other hand HAS to step up and declare their intentions if they want to move any Mac licenses. At $2000 - $8000 with node locked protection, who in their right mind would even consider a Mac Maya purchase.

Unwanted
02-02-2006, 12:59 PM
Plugins! I remember going from OS9 to OSX. No more quick clicks. I had to manually make a glow in Photoshop, and of course the missing plugs for AE....

Good point about Autodesk. I'm so consumed about upgrades/updates I never even thought about new purchases. I would suspect Maya would be UB whenever they do their next major update, much like the way Adobe is approaching the issue.

Lightwolf
02-02-2006, 01:51 PM
Without the pro level desktop MacTels there may be a risk of out running the third party developers.
Actually, I think they're all waiting for the intel mac Minis... and the XCode port of LW of course ;)

Cheers,
Mike - who got a mac Mini just in case...

gatz
02-02-2006, 02:53 PM
Plugins! I remember going from OS9 to OSX. No more quick clicks. I had to manually make a glow in Photoshop, and of course the missing plugs for AE....

With the OS9 to OSX at least we had classic as a safety net. I still have AE /plugin sets going back to v4 for legacy projects. This is why I'll probably get one of the last of the G5 Powermacs. Any bets on whether the Quad 2.5 will get a speedbump? I'm hoping for that or an early MacTel desktop intro (June maybe...?) that cuts the Quad price.

All I know is I better not have to replace all my dongles again...

ackees
02-02-2006, 03:37 PM
Adobe and NT could shoot themselves in the foot like Quark did. All that boasting talk about Macs having a small market share etc, now Quark (once almighty all ruling kings of DTP are now struggling). It's the quick or the dead in technology, a few months are really like a few years. This is NT's trouble, once you drop behind it's hard to catch up – if ever. There is no reason why NT should have less resources, they were once all powerful in 3D too – but they lost the way ... and the money.

gatz
02-03-2006, 09:00 AM
To answer my own question. MacInTouch has a note that Apple's financial report states that the company would sell PowerPC-based Macs only "while supplies last." Apparently supplies of the 17 iMac are exhausted. So the chances for speed bumped Quad G5 looks dim. Buy 'em if youse need 'em.

rg