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View Full Version : Gloves in Lightwave, anyone?



DiedonD
01-30-2006, 07:39 AM
As I mentioned in Lightwave general support, does anyone knows weather or not Lightwave 8 supports hight tech gloves like: Cybergloves, Datagloves and Powergloves, that help you animate better and also pose and you can also capture the motion from your hands and make your characters hands move like yours. Instead of dealing with each child finger parented to a hand etc, you just move your hands and it'll follow. Its all good...BUUUT, so far I dont have any info weather Lightwave 8 supports that kind of input devices.

pdrake
01-30-2006, 11:18 AM
this is what i use:

http://www.rolandit.com/games/Peripherals/PeripheralPics/PowerGloveNES01.jpg

:-D

DiedonD
01-31-2006, 01:52 AM
Finally a positive response, before I get my hopes up could you tell me:

What do you call that Drake. And does it helps in rotating, moving twisting etc, limbs and joints and all parts of tha character thus animating in raltime and/or keyframe.

And, does it also capture your hands motion and process it to characters hands?

So far they tell me LW cant support gloves, how did it work for you?

How much was it?

Im glad you showed up Drake

meatycheesyboy
01-31-2006, 08:51 AM
The picture he posted was of a Nintendo Power Glove; I don't think he was being serious about using one as they have no way to interface with a computer without heavy modification and also they didn't work very well even with the Nintendo; I had one when I was a kid.

As for the general question, I've never seen a device like a glove interface used with Lightwave before but it may be possible.

Verlon
01-31-2006, 12:04 PM
I used to have a book that showed how to modify the powerglove and make it work on a PC...the Mod wasn' that extensive, but its hard to imagine one working as well as a modern high resolution mouse.

lesterfoster
01-31-2006, 07:44 PM
What about the left hand?

cc3d
01-31-2006, 07:56 PM
:jester: 'do-it-yourself' kit for this. It's what I use.

prospector
01-31-2006, 08:30 PM
Well that looks cool cc3d.
can they be sent here too?

SplineGod
01-31-2006, 08:47 PM
:jester: 'do-it-yourself' kit for this. It's what I use.

Very cool! This think looks like it has lawsuit written all over it ;)

DiedonD
02-01-2006, 01:17 AM
Gloves have been around for years and years. And this is Lightwave 8.5 version. Howcome everyone doesnt knows anything about the possible relationship between the two?!! :hey: Am I the first one in the whole LW series to require a Glove?!!!

And Im not talking only about you guys my coleagues, but the Glove producers, the tech guys in NewTek, nobody is able to give me a firm response. Everybody says "Ive never heard of it" . This is so strange. 3DMAX, Softimage have the option and our LW doesnt???

pooby
02-01-2006, 01:36 AM
Why do you think a glove is going to help?

Do you have problems that you think a glove will solve or do you think a glove is 'cool'?

It's the last thing I would want on my hand whilst doing CG..

wacom
02-01-2006, 01:42 AM
I can see it helping for RSI and such as it would take away some of the static pause. I thougth only chemists in the pharma biz used such things!

And my friends make fun of my evoluent mouse!

Korvar
02-01-2006, 02:48 AM
What I've always wanted to try is using VR glasses to see the scene in actual 3D instead of a 2D projection on my monitor, and datagloves to manipulate the objects. Basically turning lightwave into a virtual claymation studio :)

Plus, you could record the dataglove information as a limited form of mocap, for doing gestures and so forth.

It sometimes seems bizzare that we're animating 3D, but doing it all using a 2D interface...

However, I've never had the $$$ or to investigate this, myself. And I'm not entirely sure how practical it would actually be - how long can you use VR glasses before your eyeballs start to fry, for one thing?

SaturnX
02-01-2006, 04:09 AM
Punch and uppercut modeling might be therapeutic ...

DiedonD
02-01-2006, 04:59 AM
What I've always wanted to try is using VR glasses to see the scene in actual 3D instead of a 2D projection on my monitor, and datagloves to manipulate the objects. Basically turning lightwave into a virtual claymation studio :)

Plus, you could record the dataglove information as a limited form of mocap, for doing gestures and so forth.

It sometimes seems bizzare that we're animating 3D, but doing it all using a 2D interface...

However, I've never had the $$$ or to investigate this, myself. And I'm not entirely sure how practical it would actually be - how long can you use VR glasses before your eyeballs start to fry, for one thing?

Well this is me in a different name lol. Thats what I want. But wasnt aware of frying of eyes thing. Perhaps there are less hazardious glassess just to zoom into LW and be unaware of anything else.

meatycheesyboy
02-01-2006, 08:53 AM
http://www.immersion.com/3d/products/

http://www.vrlogic.com/html/products.html

These two were the only things my search could find for anyone more interested but neither of them mention support for LW specifically. Although the second one does mention support for Maya, XSI, and MAX.

ACLOBO
02-01-2006, 11:04 AM
Ok, it seems to me that you are unaware of people being sarcastic about your query. The truth be told, is that "data or VR gloves" are still a novelty and a subject of research (Mostly in University). While VR started to get a lot of press in the 80's, there really has not been a whole lot of steam behind the technology as most of the stuff that we see today is similar to most of the stuff that was around 20 years ago.

Now, that is not to say that there aren't applications that would seriously benefit from a more natural and intuitive interface like VR headsets and input devices. However, such devices will not necessarily make you instantly better at animation and modeling.

If you look at those sites that offer data gloves and really good VR displays (is there sush a thing as a good high resolution vr display - I don't know of one), you will often notice that they don't list a price. This is because they are very expensive.

Something to consider is that you don't see a lot of these devices used in big, block-buster, effects-laden movies.. I seem to recall a "raptor" suit or appendage used during the making of Jurassic Park, but such things like that and "digital Monkeys" were only used to transition traditional animators toward working in a mouse and keyboard environment.

I have often thoguht that having some type of suit or gloves would be great for modeling and animating. However, when it comes down to it, there are some days where I am (in my opinion) brilliant with lightwave and there are a LOT of days when I am not. If the inspiration knowledge is there, then things get done. When they are not, then I don't get anything done.....

Data-gloves, magic swords or potions of hill giant strength don't change or accentuate anything that is not already there. If you are not a swordsman, you will just cut yourself deeper with the magic sword than with the regular one..

Ok, I need to stop.. Sheesh... I write a lot sometimes.....

-adrian

DiedonD
02-02-2006, 01:26 AM
However, such devices will not necessarily make you instantly better at animation and modeling.

Data-gloves, magic swords or potions of hill giant strength don't change or accentuate anything that is not already there. If you are not a swordsman, you will just cut yourself deeper with the magic sword than with the regular one..

Ok, I need to stop.. Sheesh... I write a lot sometimes.....

-adrian

I know gloves and glassess wont make me better Adrian. In fact Im aware that they are a luxury of some sort. What striked me strange was that nobody, neither the glove making industry, nor the tech support guys at NewTek know weather they are for one and another.

Im fine with a mouse, but you must admit that moving your hands in VR glassess, " TOUCHING " your characters as you pose them for keyframing, or better yet move them around like puppets and capture that movement in realtime with your hands invisible after being rendered, would add another sense to it all. The other sense after sight and hear would be the illusion of touching the character. That to me, means alot, a true binding between the animator and character. Thats why I want to get into it, not with delusions that they'll magically grow my knowledge, you had it all wrong about me.

pooby
02-02-2006, 01:48 AM
With all due respect, I'd be extremely suprised if you don't give up on this idea. The idea of a glove sounds like it's got mixed up with a bit of Sci-Fi in your head. It's not going to be how you are imagining it.
Certainly with LW, if you move something in realtime, which you can currently you leave keys all over the place which make things a terrible mess to fix.

It's like thinking that having a helecopter is going to be so much better that having a car, without thinking through implications such as parking etc.


If you want to get good at animating. Remember that all you are doing is ending up with a series of 2D images that, once viewed in succession, give the appearance of movement. It is these 2D images that are the important bit, not the ride along the way..

DiedonD
02-02-2006, 03:55 AM
If you want to get good at animating. Remember that all you are doing is ending up with a series of 2D images that, once viewed in succession, give the appearance of movement. It is these 2D images that are the important bit, not the ride along the way..

Nothing is worth doing if its not a great ride along the way Pooby

Korvar
02-02-2006, 04:24 AM
If you want to get good at animating. Remember that all you are doing is ending up with a series of 2D images that, once viewed in succession, give the appearance of movement. It is these 2D images that are the important bit, not the ride along the way..

So why bother with a 3D app in the first place? Just work in 2D all the way, right?

I don't see VR glasses + gloves as some magic "Make Cool Animation" button, but do see it as - potentially - being able to remove a layer of abstraction between the scene and the animator. At the moment, it's a ridiculously expensive and impractical idea... kind of like buying an expensive computer to make animations with. Or something.

I don't think it's unreasonable to think that changing the way we interact with the objects we're animating can make a huge difference - I remember the first time I used ZBrush to model something. Oh, my [deity]. Suddenly, modelling a face went from being a difficult and tedious technical exercise to something easy and intuitive. It's not perfect - one has to learn what you can get away with leaving for later editing and what needs to be fixed now - but it can be a quantum leap in productivity.

Something I'll be trying when I win the lottery, anyway :D

DiedonD
02-02-2006, 05:30 AM
It's not perfect - one has to learn what you can get away with leaving for later editing and what needs to be fixed now - but it can be a quantum leap in productivity.

Something I'll be trying when I win the lottery, anyway :D

The problem I found out Korvar is that even if you do win the lottery (and statistics says that its a very narrow chance you will do that, but lets say your lucky) even afer the huge luck and plenty of money, you still wont be able to go for a purchase, since neither the glove making companies nor NewTek cant confirm for sure weather or not the two can work together. See I could buy a glove right now, but having bought a glove realizing afterwards that they might not work, is a too risky adventure for me. Yes I can returned it back, but it just seems smarter to first see weather it works or not, and then buying it.

If only someone could test it?

pooby
02-02-2006, 11:20 AM
So why bother with a 3D app in the first place? Just work in 2D all the way, right?

Because it would be ridiculously impractical to paint every frame. Especially on camera moves.

I think you are confused as to what I'm getting at.. Even live-action movies are a series of 2D images.. Do you think they should be done in '2D' too?

roboanarchy
02-04-2006, 11:24 AM
I think what you want to look into is the P5 glove, which can be combined with a program to use it as a mouse. The other option is to grab a device like the spacemouse or spaceball. Also, there is a new VR viewer in development, supposed to be shockingly good.

DiedonD
02-04-2006, 02:54 PM
I think what you want to look into is the P5 glove, which can be combined with a program to use it as a mouse. The other option is to grab a device like the spacemouse or spaceball. Also, there is a new VR viewer in development, supposed to be shockingly good.

P5 glove huh....Isnt that a dataglove? So far nobody, and I mean nobody in any production was ready to confirm that it would work in LW, I know cause I asked plenty. SO could you roboanarchy please tell me how do you think it will work? Meaning, with which programe would P5 work in LW8.5 (presently)?
Is it like a third party programe between LW and Glove?

The VR viewer also sounds great. I wish your eyes dont fry on this one.

ercaxus
02-13-2006, 02:12 PM
Look at this:
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/videoeffects/welcome/US/EN,crid=2354

Facial motion capture at home. :D