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Wonderpup
01-28-2006, 12:37 PM
I thought it might be fun to pass on a couple of these.

The first one is my own- I was applying for my first computer based job at a games company, and at one point on the tour I looked at softimage running on somebody's screen and said, trying to sound intelligent- " Soo- exactly how much 3D space is in there?"

To their eternal credit they managed not to laugh! I even got the job- they evidently liked my traditional portfolio enough to give me a go.


The second one is when I was animating a dancing cartoon character and the deadline was short. I'd done all the set up and asked my boss for the soundtrack to begin the animation. Unfortunately the client was dithering and had not made up their mind about the music yet, so he asks me, perfectly seriously, "Do you really need to know the music to animate the dance sequence?"

Oh and one other just came back to me- I was asked to model a theme park for a TV ad and, not unreasonably, I asked for some screen grabs from the footage as referance material. My boss looked agitated at the delay he felt this request might cause, "Couldn't you just pop into the edit and look at it for a bit?"

faulknermano
01-28-2006, 12:47 PM
I thought it might be fun to pass on a couple of these.

The first one is my own- I was applying for my first computer based job at a games company, and at one point on the tour I looked at softimage running on somebody's screen and said, trying to sound intelligent- " Soo- exactly how much 3D space is in there?"

To their eternal credit they managed not to laugh! I even got the job- they evidently liked my traditional portfolio enough to give me a go.


maybe they thought you were joking and liked your geeky sense of humour. :D

pooby
01-29-2006, 03:23 AM
So How much 3D space WAS there in there? I know LW has a lot, but I've not explored softimage so much

NanoGator
01-29-2006, 03:24 AM
So How much 3D space WAS there in there? I know LW has a lot, but I've not explored softimage so much

Approximately 14 terraquads.

Bog
01-29-2006, 06:11 AM
The most blisteringly stupid comment about 3D is sadly one I keep on hearing.

"The computer does all the work, doesn't it?"

Forgive me for now abusing this innocent wall with my forehead...

:bangwall:

CB_3D
01-29-2006, 08:09 AM
"3D? what is it good for?"

Yikes...

Exception
01-29-2006, 08:27 AM
my client had footage of a hill with a large tree in front of it. It was a very high resolution complex nature scene. He wanted a house montaged into it, but the tree was in front of the house. When I explained him this would be impossible in the time frame he had given, he said: "can't you just use some sort of tree filter?".

ya, ill just ask worley for that i suppose : )

here, nice website for stupid client comments:
http://www.clientcopia.com

EmperorPete
01-29-2006, 10:23 AM
The most blisteringly stupid comment about 3D is sadly one I keep on hearing.

"The computer does all the work, doesn't it?"

Forgive me for now abusing this innocent wall with my forehead...

:bangwall:
Arrrrgh. I hear that a lot.

archiea
01-29-2006, 12:15 PM
Ok, this may not sound like a big deal, but trust me it was...

it was when a certain studio was going from 2D animation to 3D. When the bosses of bosses came over to see a demo of how the 3D was made, the bossess of bosses asked something of the sort "...yeah, but do we still need people to do this?"

starbase1
01-29-2006, 01:09 PM
Two from me for starters...

One client, on being told that what he wanted would require 3 weeks of effort over a 5 week period:
Haven't you got a bit of software to do that? Then helpfully added: 'Perhaps a spreadsheet or something?'

An early Atari 3d graphics program once told me I had an 'out of universe error'.

(Though that rather pales beside a message numbered approximately 4700, (I'm NOT exagerating!), "Software or hardware error".

Which rather begs the question what that left for the other 4699 errors.

Nick

Carm3D
01-29-2006, 06:23 PM
One question that I am asked frequently when I show my 3D models to people / clients is, "How do you draw those?"

faulknermano
01-29-2006, 09:35 PM
One question that I am asked frequently when I show my 3D models to people / clients is, "How do you draw those?"


haha... i get THAT alot. wonder why.


i did have one "client", which was actually a PM (production manager) who was asking for a "line test." my boss and i, knowing that line tests existed only in the cel animation world, just looked at each other blankly, and replied, "oh you mean a wireframe render test?". she replied "yes yes".

of course, as a rule of thumb, we never present wireframes, or even opengl tests to clients because they dont understand what they're seeing anyway.

there are so many idiotic statements i've heard but i never wrote them down or remembered them well enough. too bad. :)

Stooch
01-29-2006, 09:52 PM
The most blisteringly stupid comment about 3D is sadly one I keep on hearing.

"The computer does all the work, doesn't it?"

Forgive me for now abusing this innocent wall with my forehead...

:bangwall:

oh cmon thats easy! just slide over, smile warmly and point both hands to the computer: "sure, give it a shot"

NanoGator
01-29-2006, 10:11 PM
I had a coworker tell my boss I was playing Quake all day. I didn't think LW 5.5's OpenGL support was that good. Heh.

Mylenium
01-29-2006, 11:29 PM
"The computer does all the work, doesn't it?"


"How do you draw those?"

Yepp, perhaps the most common misconceptions about 3D. There's a lot of naivity out there because most people only see the results and think Hollywood movies or games are made at the push of a button... Not that I could say anything about stupid comments, but just last year had a customer who expected a rather complex smoke simulation to be done in realtime (including al that HV rendering stuff) *yuck*

Mylenium

Chris S. (Fez)
01-30-2006, 12:19 AM
oh cmon thats easy! just slide over, smile warmly and point both hands to the computer: "sure, give it a shot"

Good advice! :D

For me, this issue always comes up when I am away from the computer.

I was introduced to a drunk and, I must admit, talented musician at a Christmas party a couple years ago. Paraphrased but pretty accurate:

DM: "Is there any skill at all? I mean you can't really call it art, can you, if the computer is doing it?"

Me: "I don't know if what I do is Art, but if what you say is true, than the only musicians who could be called "artists" would be a cappella bands and that Police Academy guy who can make any sound with his mouth."

DM: "But I PLAY the piano. My fingers MAKE the music"

Me: "Well then, the computer is my piano. They've both got keyboards, right?"

DM (indignant): "You can't compare a ****ing PC with a piano!"

Lamont
01-30-2006, 12:38 AM
3D Animation? That's bulls*** cheating man... it's all about 2D animation for fighting games. I hate 3D, let's go play MvsSF. That was me talking to some girl in my 2D animation class at the AI of San Fran. We were HUGE Capcom fans.

Mha8649
01-30-2006, 01:25 AM
DM (indignant): "You can't compare a ****ing PC with a piano!"


I agree with that. You can't compare a pc with a piano.... a piano was easier to learn. :)

Avebeno
01-30-2006, 01:30 AM
The comment that comes to mind for me was said just last week by our station General manager: "How come we don't have Maya?"

I'm glad he appreciates all the 3D work I've done in lightwave for the station.

Wonderpup
01-30-2006, 02:57 AM
I saw a dilbert cartoon recently where some guy was saying to his boss,
" why do think everything you don't understand is easy to do?"

I run into this attitude a lot- people who readily accept that they know nothing at all about what I do, and yet still insist it's easy.

faulknermano
01-30-2006, 04:37 AM
I saw a dilbert cartoon recently where some guy was saying to his boss,
" why do think everything you don't understand is easy to do?"

I run into this attitude a lot- people who readily accept that they know nothing at all about what I do, and yet still insist it's easy.


i think i'm going to memorise that line. ****ed poignant.... :D




The comment that comes to mind for me was said just last week by our station General manager: "How come we don't have Maya?"

have him spend a week doing a rush project using Maya and he would've answered his own question. D

starbase1
01-30-2006, 05:39 AM
There was a good story I heard about when the great american landscape photographer, Ansel Adams, met Earnest Hemmingway (from memory)...

Hemmingway: I'm a great admirer of your work - can you tell me what camera to use to get those photographs?

Adams: I am also a great admirer of your work. Can you tell me what pen I should use to write novesl like yours?

Actually the saddest thing is that you sometiomes find newbies here who seem to expect to find a button marked 'Babylon 5 Generator', or 'James Bond Explosion'. I sometimes think that newtek should clearly mak the box 'Talent Not Included'...

Nick

pooby
01-30-2006, 05:58 AM
[QUOTE]There was a good story I heard about when the great american landscape photographer, Ansel Adams, met Earnest HemmingwayQUOTE]

I like this quote - It makes a good point, but at the same time. It's not quite a fair comparison. A good camera and lens WILL make some difference to the image whereas different pens will make no difference to the writing whatsoever.
I know I'm being pedantic, ( mainly because I'm waiting for a render and have nothing better to do)
After all.. If I were to use a ZX Spectrum for my CG work. I think I would have a hard time achieving my goals.

nemac4
01-30-2006, 06:21 AM
After spending about 2 days lighting an archviz scene, the client said "It's amazing how the computer makes it look so real"

... oh well. I guess next time I'll just have some coffee and watch the computer do it's thing. :twak:

Reading these posts reminded me of this old but funny gallery:

http://www.jackals-forge.com/abom.html

DiedonD
01-30-2006, 07:57 AM
I had a coworker tell my boss I was playing Quake all day. I didn't think LW 5.5's OpenGL support was that good. Heh.


My whole environment thinks Im playing games, thererby having more important issues to deal with like :earning money: NOBODY supports my development in modeling and animating in LW or computers overrall. Thus I have to do that when nobody needs me and thats from 22:00 to 02:00 every day. I HATE that, but nothing I can do.

Captain Obvious
01-30-2006, 08:15 AM
A good camera and lens WILL make some difference to the image whereas different pens will make no difference to the writing whatsoever.
Sure it does. Try writing a few pages of hand-written text with a fantastic pen, and then with a bad pencil.

pooby
01-30-2006, 09:11 AM
I just did.. My poem with the pencil was rubbish. It didn't even rhyme, you're right.

Matt
01-30-2006, 09:45 AM
The one I always dread hearing ...

Boss on phone to client:

"Yeah, yeah, aha, yes, that's not a problem, we can knock up a 3D image showing that, maybe even animate it, we should be able to email some test renders by tomorrow afternoon ..."

ALWAYS underestimates how long things take! It's very difficult to look a project X, see how long that took and assume project Y will be the same! But my boss does it all the time!

problemchild
01-31-2006, 11:59 AM
I've been able to browbeat my boss into giving me one day a week to work CG into the education programming at our museum. Because the soft/hardware is mine, not the museum's, I do this work in my own studio. My boss invariably refers to it as my "day off"

Guess that means I'm taking lots of evenings off as well.


On the bright side though, we've hit the point where it's altered my job title and I've got the budget to by a new setup so I can work that day at the office...so now they'll know I'm playing.

iggy21
01-31-2006, 12:08 PM
We had jusut finished a project when our client decided he wanted a last minute change to the facade of the building (a change that would take all day). After we told him we couldnt do it in a short period of time, he said: "Isnt there some button you can press".

I've heard of the 'just press a button' joke, but it was surreal to experience a client who actually thought that.

DiedonD
02-01-2006, 01:31 AM
I've been able to browbeat my boss into giving me one day a week to work CG into the education programming at our museum. Because the soft/hardware is mine, not the museum's, I do this work in my own studio. My boss invariably refers to it as my "day off"

Guess that means I'm taking lots of evenings off as well.

Day off!!! You are WORKING FOR CRYING OUT LAUD!!!! Howcome nobody understands that. We dont want to have a pleasure cruise at Bahamas in that day, or in the evenings (late evenings my case), we need more time to WORK not entertain. Its rediculisly unfair, and we get the penalty of less time for true enterntainment, time with friends and more sleep.


How much tighter can a everyday scedule get.

Cageman
02-01-2006, 01:56 AM
After spending about 2 days lighting an archviz scene, the client said "It's amazing how the computer makes it look so real"

This is somewhat true, escpecially in LightWave where you have very little control of the renderengine. It is kind of magic. :)

private
02-01-2006, 02:24 AM
I remember someone say that Lightwave had two mommies. :lwicon: :devil:

NanoGator
02-01-2006, 02:27 AM
"I'm going to take a week of Lightwave training and come back a better artist than you! Where's that darned clip-art CD?"

marble_sheep
02-01-2006, 09:40 AM
Hahaha! Great thread. It's funny how the misconceptions about 3D are pretty universal... I've definitely heard my share of the "computer does all the work" and "why can't you make instant changes?" type of comments.

A classic one I dealt with recently:

The company I work for approached me about giving 3D training to the graphic designers... because some of them thought 3D was "cool" so they wanted to learn it.

Them: "We're thinking of setting up a 4-hour session for you to teach Lightwave to the designers."

Me: "You want me to teach LW to people who have never touched a 3D program in their life, in one 4-hour session?"

Them: "Yes. Is that a problem?"

:grumpy:

kopperdrake
02-01-2006, 10:10 AM
Good advice! :D

For me, this issue always comes up when I am away from the computer.

I was introduced to a drunk and, I must admit, talented musician at a Christmas party a couple years ago. Paraphrased but pretty accurate:

DM: "Is there any skill at all? I mean you can't really call it art, can you, if the computer is doing it?"

Me: "I don't know if what I do is Art, but if what you say is true, than the only musicians who could be called "artists" would be a cappella bands and that Police Academy guy who can make any sound with his mouth."

DM: "But I PLAY the piano. My fingers MAKE the music"

Me: "Well then, the computer is my piano. They've both got keyboards, right?"

DM (indignant): "You can't compare a ****ing PC with a piano!"


ROFL!! It's funny how people justify old technology as being ok, but new technology is just, well, technology!

An excerpt:

____________________________________
Since antiquity, musical temperament has been a topic of debate among instrument builders, theorists, musicians, and composers. The Aristoxineans argued fine points with followers of Pythagoras in 400 B.C., marking a beginning for twenty-three centuries of controversy over exactly what the relationships of notes to one another should be.

Evolving from Greek scales based on numerology and the appeasement of deities, to math based systems of modern times, intonation and temperament in Western music have undergone continual change in response to advancing technology. At each stage of this musical history, composers used whatever resources were available to create their music. From the first hole drilled in a caveman's bone flute, to Pythagoras's ratios, to the computer synthesizers of today, the musical scale has reflected whatever technological advances musicians found useful.

As an example; development of the pipe organ's secondary wind chests did away with the short gusts of bellows in favor of a wind reservoir. This provided a new steadiness of air pressure, which led directly to greatly increased control over pitch. As more notes could be carved out of an octave with this new found precision, additional raised keys were added between the existing notes on keyboard instruments. Musical composition took on additional harmonic complexity during this time, as composers discovered ways to utilize the new resources.

These developments occurred before the14th century ended, finalizing the arrangement of the 12 note per octave keyboard as we know it today. Tuning offered new challenges to create as many harmonious combinations as possible out of a larger, more complex group of notes. There were some very discordant sounds created in order to provide beautifully harmonious combinations elsewhere on those keyboards, and it took a musical ear to judge how the instrument sounded best.

Technology created musical complexity and the need for changing intonation in later years, as well. The modern brass orchestra became feasible only after 1840, when machines capable of making consistant valves were invented. Large groups of fixed pitch instruments, like brass and woodwinds, needed a tuning system that everybody could use, which added new demands for a "universal" tuning. By the end of the 19th century, the old ways of just tuning by listening were coming to an end.
_____________________________________

So it seems that musicians are slaves to technology as much as us 3D artists - in the same way you can (arguably) swap your stone chisel and mallet in for a mouse and keyboard - it doesn't make you an less an accomplished sculptist, just the final medium is 'flat' (unless you go for the rapid prototyping look). A keyboard and mouse doesn't suck any artistic talent away from an individual, and neither does it embue anyone with that same talent. I bet there are some awful stone masons out there - same goes for musicians.

Ask your friend about the difficulty faced by harpsichord players when the 'new-fangled' piano hit the market - there's a bit of luddite in all of us when it comes to protecting that which we know best :)

Matt
02-01-2006, 10:18 AM
I was introduced to a drunk and, I must admit, talented musician at a Christmas party a couple years ago. Paraphrased but pretty accurate:

DM: "Is there any skill at all? I mean you can't really call it art, can you, if the computer is doing it?"

Me: "I don't know if what I do is Art, but if what you say is true, than the only musicians who could be called "artists" would be a cappella bands and that Police Academy guy who can make any sound with his mouth."

DM: "But I PLAY the piano. My fingers MAKE the music"

Me: "Well then, the computer is my piano. They've both got keyboards, right?"

DM (indignant): "You can't compare a ****ing PC with a piano!"

LOL! I missed that one! Classic! I had a similar conversation with someone like that who labelled ALL electronic music as sh!te!

kopperdrake
02-01-2006, 10:29 AM
Oh - forgot my two stories :)

A JCB (ground digger) needed adding to a birdseye illustration of a piece of land development I'd done, as the client had seen a style of vehicle he preferred to the one in place. On explaining it would take a bit of time to build one the marketing manager said:

'well, he's supplied a picture of it - can't you just drop that in?'

'err...it depends on the angle of the photograph really - but chances are 'no' "

'oh - I thought you could just scan it in or something'


Second one was the same project - and it really niggles me when I think about it :rock: One of the land surveyors was briefing me on foundations and types thereof, and started to get bogged down in detail which was superfluous to the illustration's objective (and scale). When I suggested a more simple approach he came out with:

'Well - I suppose there's no reason why your sort of person, an arty type, should understand something like this'.

I've always been taught to smile at a client and bite my tongue - they pay the bills and you don't have to go back once the project's finished - you can always be 'busy' on other projects. My thoughts were to make it clear to him that whilst an 'artist' I had also had a bloody good degree, PG Diploma and Masters under my belt in Industrial Design and that 3D software wasn't exactly a no-brainer.

But I bit my lip, finished the project, banked the cheque, and now I'm always 'busy' ;)

manholoz
02-01-2006, 10:54 AM
Ok here is my humble contribution.

A client asked to see how things were going with his render, he just could not believe it could take so long to build a 3d environment. So he comes over, I show him the wireframe camera view (pre-openGL times), and he gets a tremendous shock and says:

"But the buildings are all made of glass! They are supposed to be all solid! Why are they transparent?"

JML
02-01-2006, 11:25 AM
really good thread , :D

not from clients, but internal comments with some people I work with..

"Polygon count doesn't matter, it doesn't slow down rendering time"

"I pressed cancel while loading the scene, and not all objects were loaded"

"How come we don't have max?"

"a faster computer won't increase your productivity"

starbase1
02-01-2006, 11:44 AM
OK, it's not graphics, but I swear this is 100% true, pretty much word for word.

About 20 years back I was a programmer at Nestles. A good friend was an analyst programmer, and arranged a meeting with end users to discuss their requirements for a new system.

He was back at his desk, 10 minutes after the start of the meeting, looking shell shocked.

I asked him how it went. He said:

"I asked them what they wanted the new system to do. They said they'd tell the computer after we'd written it for them."

Nick

Titus
02-01-2006, 01:22 PM
This happened to me some weeks ago when a client came to the office with the excitment of recently seen Chicken Little 3D.

Client: Can you do this for a project?
Me: What?
Client: To make the images come closer, like in the movie.
Me: Yes, I can.
Client: Is this technique new?
Me: Not so new, it was invented 150 years ago.

TheDynamo
02-01-2006, 01:27 PM
We had a freelance script writer that was working on a relatively quick turn around project for a 30 minute vacuum cleaner spot we were doing who recentlt found out that we were beginning training on LW. We had a week in a half to put together 2D graphics (including client approvals and revisions). Normally this is a bit tight but nothing we weren't used to until we saw the final script approved by the client. There was one sentence in there that we dubbed the "fifteen thousand dollar phrase". I paraphrase here but it's pretty close...

"The vacuum cleaner then turns invisible, showing the working motors and a dirt particle's eye view traveling from the floor to the receptacle."

8~ 8~ 8~ 8~

We were able to convince the client that would not be able to be done in the amount of time they wanted since we were still figuring out the interface. :)

-Dyn

Meaty
02-01-2006, 03:29 PM
My co-worker and I took this job where we had to go onsite to a nearby studio. Somone who worked in the building and would occasionally throw work to the studio would come down just to see what we were up to cause he loves animation. Anyways, he kept referring to Lightwave as Lightware. We were just guests there, so we didn't correct him, and the guy we were working for didn't correct him. So, we just grinned.

"How much does that Lightware cost?"

"It is amazing what you guys can do with that Lightware"

Nice guy, but we got a kick out of it. :hey:

DiedonD
02-02-2006, 01:10 AM
Unofrtunately I dont have too much time working with LW, cause my job is an Executive coordinator to a windows and doors factory. So Im an animator in soul working in bussiness. ANyways, in a special meeting that I had with my boss who found out about LW, we were debating about having more time spent on the factory. And when I declined cause I needed that time for LW, he went:

"Ha! A grown man, married with two kids, playing with computers all day! You should be ashamed of yourself! Behaving like a child like that!

The playing is perceived like playing in games like entertainment, unlike what we like to call playing in LW which is perceived like learning and testing and trying stuff, having fun while doing work basically.

Everyone thinks like that about my work in LW, though not everyone says it all open. Also other comments are like:

"You'll never be able to do anything like Shrek!'

"Im only allowing you to play with computers just so you can see for yourself that its not for you and your not for it"

"Hows the latest temporary thing doing"

They marvel seeing me work at late hours. But it pretty sucks having to do what I like from 22:00 to 02:00 only.

But, sooner or later I'll learn enough to prove it to everyone the benefits of LW movies. Till then I'll just grin like you do to lack of empathy really.

pooby
02-02-2006, 01:32 AM
Me: Not so new, it was invented 150 years ago.

I don't think that's too dumb. You may not have it completely right, but you got your point across. ;)

marble_sheep
02-02-2006, 06:37 AM
I don't think that's too dumb. You may not have it completely right, but you got your point across. ;)

What part didn't he get right? I assumed he was referring to Stereoscopy, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereoscopy) which was invented almost 170 years ago :thumbsup:

Lightwolf
02-02-2006, 07:11 AM
"How much does that Lightware cost?"

Or Litewaves as one of my customers keeps on insisting... Well, he can barely spell Maya and I get a kick out of mis-pronouncing his last name ;)

Cheers,
Mike

Carm3D
02-02-2006, 07:37 AM
"Ha! A grown man, married with two kids, playing with computers all day! You should be ashamed of yourself! Behaving like a child like that!

The playing is perceived like playing in games like entertainment, unlike what we like to call playing in LW which is perceived like learning and testing and trying stuff, having fun while doing work basically.

Sounds like people tend to get jealous that our job has intrinsic benefits.

Lightwolf
02-02-2006, 07:40 AM
Sounds like people tend to get jealous that our job has intrinsic benefits.
Overtime? Long nights and week ends? Bad pay?
...
Heck, we better enjoy what we're doing then ;)

Cheers,
Mike

starbase1
02-02-2006, 08:14 AM
Sounds like people tend to get jealous that our job has intrinsic benefits.

Or, to put in the words of Catbert, Dilbert's evil director of HR, "Enjoying yourself at work is like stealing from the company."

Nick

(And round here we say that HR stands for Human Remains).

EmperorPete
02-02-2006, 08:29 AM
"But surely when the model is done, making it into a movie is easy, right? You just have to tell the computer to move it, and there you go...?"
Got that from a client in an email a little while ago. Now, to explain about render times.

Wonderpup
02-02-2006, 09:20 AM
"But surely when the model is done, making it into a movie is easy, right? You just have to tell the computer to move it, and there you go...?"

The key phrase here is "But surely..." Everytime I hear a sentance start with those words I know that some terrible crime against common sense is about to be perpetrated-

iaef
02-02-2006, 10:21 AM
"But surely when the model is done, making it into a movie is easy, right? You just have to tell the computer to move it, and there you go...?"
Got that from a client in an email a little while ago. Now, to explain about render times.
It reminds me of a Dilbert quote, where his pointed-hair boss tells him that he assigned ridiculously low times (almost null) to anything he didn't understood or found too technical. :neener:

cc3d
02-02-2006, 10:45 AM
~1998

I was working a large format print job, short-lead-time, for client of an advertising agency that I had worked with for years.

The client specified that the image HAD to be delivered in TIFF on a JAZ disc so they could convert it to the correct image format and send it to a large format print service. During the job I kept sending proofs to the ad agency to send to the client so they could send to the printer for test prints. This would take days and they kept coming back with problems in converting the image that made no sense. I offered to convert the image to whatever format and send it straight to the printer, but to no avail. After weeks of going through this confusion, a meeting with everyone cleared the issue. The client was taking the TIFF I sent them, printing it in their office to a 42" plotter, then sending it out to be drum scanned, and sending the scan file to the large format printer for a proof!!! No wonder my work looked like *****!!

I showed them how I could save them a lot of time and it would only cost a little more :thumbsup:

MikeMD
02-02-2006, 10:56 AM
LOL! I missed that one! Classic! I had a similar conversation with someone like that who labelled ALL electronic music as sh!te!

Well, well, let's clarify some things here, otherwise some of the posts will fall under the same ridiculous category as these dumbest 3d comments..

The guy/guys is mostly right. You cannot compare a piano to a PC and most electronic music is ****. You cannot seriously compare learning and creating something on a piano prom scratch to the way most electronic musicians do things. Take some samples or loops ( CREATED BY OTHER PEOPLE are key words here ) and just drag them onto a timeline in something like ACID or Ableton live, then keep rearranging things and adding effects until it sounds right. In this case the work has been done by somebody else ( people who created the samples/loops ) and the computer is doing the rest, since adding effects and rearranging crap on a timeline doesn't exactly fall into being creative or artistic.

For the record, I use real and electronic instruments and software, so I know what I'm talking about.

And , have you guys ever played around with a Korg Triton or something similar? Literally all you need to do is pick one patch, press a key and the synth does the rest, you can add a few bits and pieces on top of that by using the other hand to press a few buttons or twirl a knob here and there.

Yes, a lot of electronic music you hear was literally 99% played by a machine. Maybe you could call the programmer an artist, but the "musician" definitely not.

cc3d
02-02-2006, 11:17 AM
"You just have to tell the computer to move it, and there you go...?"

tell the computer to move it? I love that.

(sounding like Mr. Scott on the Enterprise)

"Computer! Computer! move the **** smiley_char_Larm.lwo 4 meters on X, 2 meters on Y, and 2.345 meters on Z and THEN start the **** Hypervoxels!!!"

iaef
02-02-2006, 11:51 AM
tell the computer to move it? I love that.

(sounding like Mr. Scott on the Enterprise)

"Computer! Computer! move the **** smiley_char_Larm.lwo 4 meters on X, 2 meters on Y, and 2.345 meters on Z and THEN start the **** Hypervoxels!!!"

This reminds me that I still have some doubts on using Lightwave... "Where is the button or command that makes fantastic clean meshes? I have seen this marvelous WIPs but never found the correct button. I have already read the manual, so don't flame me" :devil:

Lightwolf
02-02-2006, 12:04 PM
(sounding like Mr. Scott on the Enterprise)

"Computer! Computer!...
This is the twentieth century, use this (hands over a mouse...) :compbeati

Cheers,
Mike - well, the twentyfirst century already, on still no decent discussion with my Athlon...

toby
02-02-2006, 12:16 PM
Clients are an endless source aren't they : ( this is real )
"How would it look if we changed it?"

Captain Obvious
02-02-2006, 02:46 PM
The guy/guys is mostly right. You cannot compare a piano to a PC and most electronic music is ****. You cannot seriously compare learning and creating something on a piano prom scratch to the way most electronic musicians do things. Take some samples or loops ( CREATED BY OTHER PEOPLE are key words here ) and just drag them onto a timeline in something like ACID or Ableton live, then keep rearranging things and adding effects until it sounds right. In this case the work has been done by somebody else ( people who created the samples/loops ) and the computer is doing the rest, since adding effects and rearranging crap on a timeline doesn't exactly fall into being creative or artistic.
I don't mean to derail the thread, but you are obviously entirely clueless as to what electronic music is, and what it can be. Electronic music isn't just someone sitting making loops of already existing music. You CANNOT honestly claim that Walter/Wendy Carlos lacks talent. If you don't know who that is, well, you've just proven my original point.

Cageman
02-02-2006, 03:57 PM
I have to agree with Capt. Obvious on this one. It's like saying that using interpolation between keyframes is non-talanted. Of course, if you set the keyframes totaly wrong and the timing goes way off, it doesn't matter wether or not the computer interpolates. It will look crap. The same goes for re-arranging loops, adding effects to sound etc...

Captain Obvious
02-02-2006, 04:17 PM
Dude, 3D animation doesn't require ANY talent at all. It's not like you actually draw anything yourself. You just take a model from the modeling department and, you know, move it around. Remember, kids! It only counts as talent if you use your hand for the end result!

Honestly, I fail to see the difference between that, and moving around already-made loops. It's the same basic principle. Besides, Mozart and Bach didn't really perform much of anyhting. They just composed stuff and had others perform it for them, much like any electronic music artist. Again, I fail to see the difference.

robewil
02-02-2006, 04:21 PM
Can't you just find a generic 3D model of a person and texture map a photo of someone onto the model? How about getting one of those motion capture thingies, attach it to yourself, capture your movement, and then applying the data to your model?

Gee whiz, animation isn't hard. :devil:

Captain Obvious
02-02-2006, 04:29 PM
Exactly! Any kid could do it! In fact, any kid could do it better than us, because kids are more agile and can do the whole mocap thing better!

Cageman
02-02-2006, 04:34 PM
Dude, 3D animation doesn't require ANY talent at all.

*LOL* :agree:

MikeMD
02-02-2006, 07:25 PM
I don't mean to derail the thread, but you are obviously entirely clueless as to what electronic music is, and what it can be.

Don't worry, I know exactly what I'm talking about.

To use a 3D analogy. A guy who learns to play a piano, or any instrument, then creates music using that and whatever else is at his disposal is an artist just like somebody who sits down with Lightwave and models/creates/animates something from the beginning to the end.

Most electronic musicians are like guys who steal or buy your already made models, tweak them for 1/2 an hour and then release that as their own.

Not everybody is like that, but most are, and this is far beyond that interpolation analogy. Electronics can be used to create music all your own, but ****, why bother when you can just rip off others. That is unfortunatelly 99% of electronic music.


Besides, Mozart and Bach didn't really perform much of anyhting. They just composed stuff and had others perform it for them, much like any electronic music artist

Well, here we see who really is clueless. Mozart and Bach and so on, actually composed from scratch, electronic musicians I'm talking about compose nothing. They take pre made mini compositions and phrases ( loops ) and use this to put together a hack job they then try to pass off to other clueless fellows. Often stealing from guys like Mozart and Bach as well.

If you don't see the difference, all I can say, WOW, you're in the right thread.

ericsmith
02-02-2006, 09:56 PM
You have a reasonable point, but you're being a bit too dogmatic about it. Taken to its extreme, you could say that photographers are not artist. They just take a snapshot of what's in front of them. Same with junkyard sculpture or collage art. You could even say that a 3d artist that uses photographic textures isn't really an artist.

Real art is in the mind. And every artist draws from the world around them to create something new, whether they're a painter, photographer, musician or other.

If someone takes pre-existing samples of sound and re-composes them into something that becomes something new and unique, and it took the creative mind to re-arrange those elements into that new piece, it's art. Of course, there's a fine line between this and just outright copying, but I don't think it's fair to say that anyone who draws from elements created by someone else isn't really making art, or that what they create is crap.

Eric

starbase1
02-03-2006, 01:12 AM
Don't worry, I know exactly what I'm talking about.

It really doesn't sound like it. I know plenty of musicians who are primarily electronic in their choice of instruments, and what you describe matches none of them.

Most go this route because it is an effective way to produce music solo, from what I see.

'Most of its not very good' applies to everything. (Look up Sturgeons Law).

Loop based stuff is a tiny tiny part, and would primarily describe techno and its variants.

Vangelis and Brian Eno are still producing consistently great EM, as they have done for many years, or if you want something more popular Goldfrap, Air, and others.

Digital artists are artists, digital musicians are musicians.

Now lets get back to the excellent and amusing thread.
Nick

MikeMD
02-03-2006, 01:41 AM
I never said everybody is like that. I use electronic stuff too.

But, wast majority of the software-electronic crowd just recycles premade stuff. Somebody like Brian Eno is probably still old school, meaning to him whether electronic or not it is still an instrument which he uses to create.

Newer generations want a quick fix, and today's technology offers them just that. So, they don't create, they take, then twist it around a bit ( if they feel like it, some don't even do much of that ) and pass it off as new.

Let's take a simple bass line of about 2-4 bars. You can stretch it in software,, reverse it, cut it up, add whatever effects. Then you get a final result ( whatever it may be ).

There is a huge difference in whether that starting point ( bass line used as source ) was played/composed by you ( whether on a synth, or a bass guitar, doesn't matter as long as you created the note sequence ), or if it came from somebody else. That is the difference between a real artist and a poser/thief.

DiedonD
02-03-2006, 01:44 AM
Sounds like people tend to get jealous that our job has intrinsic benefits.

Its either that or lack of understanding and potentiality of this product. Its just playing to them.

It seems like Im not the only one working in long hours at night. But can 4 hours a day really have an impact. I hear people saying that they work with LW for hours with no end. How many hours of constructive work woud anyone propose?

Long hours, week ends, bad pay it had better be... - Thats a quotation which brings up issues Id like to know. How much approximately is "badpay"? Do you bossess pay you monthly or is it only project based percentage like.

Im only asking to evaluate weather it would be worth in doing it as a second job you know, thereby an approximation would do just fine.

The only advantage of having another job is that, then you dont have to work for anyone else but yourself. Financially secured, juat do art exactly the way you want it, no more no less. Of course the disadvantage being being forced to work only from 22:00 to 02:00 when most tired, over stressed.

Captain Obvious
02-03-2006, 02:07 AM
MikeMD:

Thank you for proving I was right.

Lightwolf
02-03-2006, 02:50 AM
Long hours, week ends, bad pay it had better be... - Thats a quotation which brings up issues Id like to know. How much approximately is "badpay"? Do you bossess pay you monthly or is it only project based percentage like.
I think that was my quote, wasn't it?
I'm my own boss, so I'm the guy to blame for the bad pay ;)
I get paid monthly, but you never know how the financial situation will look within the next few months ahead of time, so it is a bit of a "gamble". Then again, experience taught me that there's always somethign coming up to pay the rent and some more...
On the positive side... I get to call the shots, pick the projects I want to work on (if I have the financialy leisure to actually reject a project that is)... and decide on how to actually do them.
Cheers,
Mike

DiedonD
02-03-2006, 03:14 AM
I think that was my quote, wasn't it?
I'm my own boss, so I'm the guy to blame for the bad pay ;) Cheers,
Mike

Yes it was you Mike :) , I only know to quote one thing just yet. Anyhow, I still dont know an approximation of a paycheck, it doesnt has to be your own, cause I know its TABOO, but maybe somebody elses that youve heard, so that I at least know the general average paycheck for 3D artists like us.

Lightwolf
02-03-2006, 03:44 AM
Anyhow, I still dont know an approximation of a paycheck...
Well, it does depend heavily on the country and the field. As a Freelancer in Europe I'd say anything between 150€ to 500€ per day is realistic (usually in the 200€ - 300€ range). From this you'll of course need to deduct taxes.
You also tend to earn a bit less if you have a steady position instead of freelancing.
Cheers,
Mike

DiedonD
02-03-2006, 04:03 AM
Well, it does depend heavily on the country and the field. As a Freelancer in Europe I'd say anything between 150Ä to 500Ä per day is realistic (usually in the 200Ä - 300Ä range). From this you'll of course need to deduct taxes.
You also tend to earn a bit less if you have a steady position instead of freelancing.
Cheers,
Mike

Thanks alot Mike. ANy chance that I could work there from the balkans were I live. I dont maybe send work through the net or mail to to Germany not that far. How many hours a day do they want you to work?

Lightwolf
02-03-2006, 04:06 AM
Thanks alot Mike. ANy chance that I could work there from the balkans were I live. I dont maybe send work through the net or mail to to Germany not that far. How many hours a day do they want you to work?
Well, that really depends on the job... Sometimes it could work over the net, sometimes not.
I'd prefer to have people close by to discuss progress on a daily basis, it is just so much more productive.
8 hours per day at least, more in crunch.

Cheers,
Mike

Titus
02-03-2006, 07:43 AM
This thread was funny with the dumbest 3D comments :(, what happened?

Lightwolf
02-03-2006, 08:37 AM
This thread was funny with the dumbest 3D comments :(, what happened?
Yup, sorry, it went seriously :offtopic: ...

Cheers,
Mike

Red_Oddity
02-03-2006, 01:59 PM
Well, not to derail it any further, but, as taken from Wikipedia:
Art comes from the Latin word 'ars', meaning 'to arrange' or 'arrangement.
This is the only universal definition of art, that whatever is described as such has undergone a deliberate process of arrangement by an agent.

So, basically that means that even taking pre-made samples/models and screw about with it a bit can be defined as 'art', we can only choose not to.

I seriously think we should drop this though, as art is something really dificult to describe or put rules to, as it mostly is defined on a personal level (am i making any sense? :) )

Anyhoo, one of my many stories of the always surprisingly ignorance of clients.

I was on the phone with a client trying to trace what was wrong with a render this time, the guy was being totally friggin' vague like most people in high creative positions, mostly because they are totally without any artistic background, so they can't forward what ever the f they mean in a clear way.

"The aluminum tube looks totally different over here, you render is more red and i have the tube here in my hands, looking at it i can see it is more blue, with whiter dots"

Now try to imagine me trying to explain to this jack ***, (while trying to stay polite), that a metallice material with a micro structure covered in a clear plastic film reacts different under different light situtations.
For the love, i could not explain to this man why the material looked the way it did in his, by many halogen spotlights covered system ceiling, and probably penthouse view overdone upper floor window office, the way it did, and looked totally different in my dungeon-style-no-window-tungsten-lit work place.

At the end of the conversation the guy must have been thinking our phonesystem had some serious interference, all while though it was me grinding my teeth more and more.

Bog
02-03-2006, 02:10 PM
"No, don't bother re-shooting the guy going into the wrong door. We'll fix in in post. Won't we, Mark?"

Anger tastes like powdered tooth enamel.

cholo
02-03-2006, 03:14 PM
I know I'm no artist whatsoever. I take this mathematically perfect primitive that lightwave MAKES, and just merely rearrange the points and polygons into different shapes. I can't really say I create anything, the computer makes it and I just tweak it, so I guess I should just come clean.... I'm a hack! ;)

On another note, 13 years ago, we had a script for a TV show that called for a scene at night. When the director brought in his material it was all done in broad daylight. I asked him if he had read the script, because it was supposed to be a night scene and he replied...

"I thought there was a button you can press to make it night."

Now I know today with some creative color correction and sky replacement you could get away with something like that IF you really planned for it properly, but 13 years ago? Maybe in the future we'll all be playing doom 16 while the computer is working hard at animating :P

gatz
02-03-2006, 03:26 PM
My favorite recurring bit of stupidity deals with bidding.

I have done a lot of work with educational publishers. Invariably when a new project is in the works, samples of art work is submitted to the art team for appraisal ie how long will a particular piece take? Now having worked with educational editors before I know a piece is never as simple as it seems. A basic pie chart might very well have been spec'd with vague "make USA Today info graphic with realistic 3D. Vibrant, subtle, exciting clear." Now assuming the artist's telepathic abilities are keen and they manage to guess what kind of color palette is both vibrant and subtle (actual tangible suggestions are rare) a sketch might get approved and final render completed, only to have the editor "rethink the concept." This might go on for half a dozen passes where you may or may not arrive at something resembling the spec.

Now, I'm looking at a deceptively simple pie chart and asked to estimate the time. Knowing full well that the editors we'll be working with have only recently descended from the trees, I pad the time estimate accordingly. My boss would of course be shocked that such a simple item would take so much time. I would point out that the final piece would indeed be simple, but the process is never that direct. I would explain. Boss would say that that won't happen this time, they're riding herd on this one. Besides we we'll just charge for alterations.

Of course everything proceeds as the humble artist predicted. But the alts are dutifully recorded. Now this is where it gets fun:

It seems that the publishers have become aware that their lack of foresight, ability to visualize and planning are costing them money. Meetings are held where the editors are told to hold alterations to a minimum, lets say 10% of the total art budget. To most this would seem an admonition to more thoroughly prepare specs before submitting them to artists, but to the editor it simply means shovel as usual, and haggle with the vendor over the alts later. Ultimately the publisher rarely pays for all of the alts. And of course the artist looks like Nostradamus.

Bog
02-03-2006, 03:41 PM
Gatz:

I call those "Walk-Aways".

It's very simple. Alts take time. Time is money. If they don't want to spend the time being right first time, then there's no reason on God's green Earth that you - or I - should pay for them being unprepared to do graphics in the first place. You don't have to pay for them being wrong - they do.

Insist on being treated like an adult. It's the only way.

Giacomo99
02-03-2006, 09:36 PM
This happened about a year ago. The job was to produce cutaway view of a vehicle's body, engine, and drive train--unfortunately the client had no blueprints or schematics available, just the owner's manual (line-art perspective drawings, probably done from Polaroid photos) and several promo photos taken from random angles (and with different lenses). I pointed out that modeling this was going to be difficult, but he didn't "get it" at all.

So I spent DAYS painstakingly modeling the thing by successive approximation--building test models with simple primitives and adjusting everything until all the parts fit together more-or-less correctly. I showed the final render to the client, who seemed pleased with the result. I explained how it had taken many tedious hours to get it right. He looked at me and said:

"I don't understand what was so hard. Why didn't you just DRAW it?"

MentalFish
02-04-2006, 05:44 AM
Trying to get a client to decide on an issue related to getting the work done can end up in situations like this:

"resolution? I dont want no resolution, I just want the video!"

And then you can replace the word resolution with all sorts of other words: codec, filesize, rendertime...

Also, after a 12 hour render they go: "Just move the camera a bit to the left, I need it for my meeting in an hour".

Bog
02-04-2006, 05:54 AM
"resolution? I dont want no resolution, I just want the video!"

Hnnng.

"What resolution d'you want your animation at?"

"72 dpi"

Just typing that I can hear a sound like the stem of a wineglass breaking, just in the back of my head....

EmperorPete
02-18-2006, 05:21 AM
It's very simple. Alts take time. Time is money. If they don't want to spend the time being right first time, then there's no reason on God's green Earth that you - or I - should pay for them being unprepared to do graphics in the first place. You don't have to pay for them being wrong - they do.
Sorry to revive this topic after a couple of weeks, but I just read this and thought I should chime in, just to show that not all clients get crabby about alterations.
Last year I did all the animated the logo work for Electrolux's (they of the fridges and freezers and vacuum cleaners and so on) big product rollout, here in the UK. It was going to be shown in front of over 750 senior management people and company directors, not to mention the heads of the company in Europe (yeah, no pressure). I came up with the Electrolux logo exploding out of pure black, with volumetric light streaming in through the holes (there's a Quicktime of it up on my site). They LOVED it. I was invited to go down to Bristol to watch the presentation, so of course I did (seeing my gfx on an Imax screen? Too right I was gonna go!). I decided to install LW on one of the machines they were using to run the video on and put all the scene files on too, just in case. I put the dongle in my bag, and headed off to Bristol.
Good job I did do all that too; the second day of the presentation was also the day we had those bombings in London. The presentation was at 1pm, and at 11am the Electrolux bigwigs decided it was a bad idea to have an exploding logo in light of such a tragedy. So, with 2 hours to go, they told me they needed a new logo doing. Fortunately I'd worked them up a good half dozen ideas, so I could show them other pieces and let them pick the one they liked the best. They had no problem in paying for the new aimation.
I'm glad they DID pay for it as well; the extra money paid for a holiday to the US for me, where I got together with the woman I'm marrying in a couple of months. Score! :thumbsup:

Lightwolf
02-18-2006, 05:35 AM
"72 dpi"

Don't get me started... just don't.... ad agencies... *argh* :2guns:

Cheers,
Mike

5had0w
02-18-2006, 05:37 AM
Ah...i heard about "What is 3d?"

lol

Captain Obvious
02-18-2006, 05:46 AM
Not a stupid client, but still:

I was talking to my mother's "significant other" (we need a better word for that) about, well, art I guess. He does ceramic stuff (and is bloody good at it), so I couldn't help but start talking about 3D. Now, I was expecting it to go about the same direction as this thread, especially considering that he doesn't know much about computers, but he actually understood the basic concepts of 3D modeling, right away! I explained things, and he just understood it! :eek: I was impressed by this, to say the least. No stupid comments like "but it's the computer doing all the work" or "can't you just click a button." Wow!

Dexter2999
02-18-2006, 01:19 PM
Stupid 3d things I have heard:

Hollywood Actress Darryl Hannah after watching the premier of Jurassic Park, "How did they get those dinosaurs to do those things?"

A guy posting on this site about how terrible LW was after he wasted 32 hours to do 2 hi res renders for a job. "This stupid program took 16 hours and didn't save my picture" He had rendered using F9 then closed the image viewer without saving it himself.

A conversation with my boss a couple of years ago:
BOSS: We are thinking of buying MAYA.
ME: That's great! Who is going to use it?
BOSS: Well, you.
ME: I don't know anything about MAYA, but I'd love to learn.
BOSS: You mean it's not the same?

My boss from 4 years ago (different boss) upon seeing a logo spinner with radiosity that took me a week to render 4 hours before show time:
BOSS: Thats great! I just need you to take the center logo and move it
to the side and make another one to go on the other side.

Boss (still another boss) from 6 years ago sent two guys to shoot footage for a video project. No requirements were put out they had no idea what they wanted for the final product. After the shoot:
BOSS: We want you to take this footage and use this still frame, but we
want you to make the fan spin.....and we need you to make it
look like night time.

Gee, you think that would have been a weeks less work if they had just told the guys that BEFORE THE SHOOT!

Lamont
02-18-2006, 01:53 PM
A guy posting on this site about how terrible LW was after he wasted 32 hours to do 2 hi res renders for a job. "This stupid program took 16 hours and didn't save my picture" He had rendered using F9 then closed the image viewer without saving it himself.
That's just a DFO error.

Cageman
02-18-2006, 04:35 PM
Hollywood Actress Darryl Hannah after watching the premier of Jurassic Park, "How did they get those dinosaurs to do those things?"

Well, I wondered that myself, as I barely knew anything about 3D at that time. And I suspect that Darryl knew even less than me! :)

MentalFish
02-18-2006, 05:04 PM
This was in the days when radiosity was quite new and I did a testrender to show my boss about the great lighting quality, getting this reply: "I am not interested in boxes"

Bog
02-18-2006, 06:22 PM
That's just a DFO error.

AKA an ID 10T error, or Error Detected between Keyboard and Chair.

However, I did have some pure schadenfreude last week. Once, I had to tell a client to go away, leave me alone, and never darken my door again. They did things like this:

Mon 0900 - Me. "When do you need this?"

Mon 0901 -Them- "Soon."

Mon 0901.05 - Me. "No, really. The more time I've got, the better I can make it look. When?"

Mon 0904.30 -Them- "Soon."

Mon 0904.32 -Me- *deeeeep breaths. Slow, deeeeep breaths*

Mon 0904.48 -Me- "You don't understand. When I know how long I have in which to work, I can plan my levels of detail, the texture resolutions, shortcuts I have to take, what corners I have to cut."

Mon 0905 -Them- "Yeah... yeah, well... we don't work that way here. We need you to model the car (!!!?) as soon as you can."

Mon 0905.10- Me. "And you really can't tell me when you need it ready by?"

Mon 0905.30 -Them- "Soon."


***time passes***

Tue 0900 -Them- "We need the car now."

HNGGGG!

Suffice it to say, when I found out last week that said client is running an unpopular bar into the *ground*.... I smiled.

Piolla
02-19-2006, 06:50 AM
I Work as an Animator on the VFX division at TV Globo, Brasil.
We were doing a 5 min 2D Animation (Mirage) with 3D BG (Max and LW) for an up comming show and the assistant Director was amazed by Mirage's agility and asked:
"You just have to draw with that pen (tablet) and the software automatically creates the character in 3D??"

I could only say "not exactly that way..."

starbase1
02-19-2006, 06:57 AM
I find it can help if you decribe making animation as like a cartoon, where every picture that makes up the sequence has to be separately done, and carefully linked together - then they start thing in terms of thousands of images, not 1 small moving clip...

Would they ask Walt Disney to go back and make Snow White blonde? It's a simple enough request...

Rather like the Homer Simpson line:
Does this cartoon go out live?
No Homer, it would be a terrible strain on the animators.

Nick

Stooch
02-20-2006, 11:17 AM
Don't worry, I know exactly what I'm talking about.

To use a 3D analogy. A guy who learns to play a piano, or any instrument, then creates music using that and whatever else is at his disposal is an artist just like somebody who sits down with Lightwave and models/creates/animates something from the beginning to the end.

Most electronic musicians are like guys who steal or buy your already made models, tweak them for 1/2 an hour and then release that as their own.

Not everybody is like that, but most are, and this is far beyond that interpolation analogy. Electronics can be used to create music all your own, but ****, why bother when you can just rip off others. That is unfortunatelly 99% of electronic music.



Well, here we see who really is clueless. Mozart and Bach and so on, actually composed from scratch, electronic musicians I'm talking about compose nothing. They take pre made mini compositions and phrases ( loops ) and use this to put together a hack job they then try to pass off to other clueless fellows. Often stealing from guys like Mozart and Bach as well.

If you don't see the difference, all I can say, WOW, you're in the right thread.

hey mike, sorry buddy but you are dead wrong and your analogy sucked. I dabble in digital music myself and HAVING ACTUALLY DONE THIS, i can tell you that if YOU sat down and tried to make something it would sound like sh|t even if it was just merely arranging loops. Disagree??? Prove me wrong, get a demo of fruity loops and acid and make something worthwhile. It takes an artistic eye to take a good photo, to make a good model. It takes artistic timing to make a good animation OR to make good music. if you suck at timing, if you dont understand music theory or have the experience and knowledge and the EAR for what sounds good and what can fit well together, then you will fail. of course you would already know this if you KNEW WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT.

try listening to amon tobin, bjork, bonobo, herbalizer, dj shadow, talvin singh, kruder and dorfmeister, dj vadim, dan the automator... all digital music producers and all of the highest caliber as far as that particular art is concerned.

Im going out on a limb here, but ANYONE who assumes that ANYTHING is easy without having in-depth knowledge and personal experience - is an ignorant fool.

my name is stooch and i approve this message.

oh and if you think im passionate about this topic, its because i am. I am offended to hear someone saying crap like you just did, just like any 3D artist would be offended if someone walked up to them and claimed that "the computer does all the work".

p.s. Its one thing to create brilliant PIANO music, or drums, or guitar. However, the ability to COMBINE and arrange all of these instruments into a coherent symphony, takes a different kind of talent that even the pianist, drummer and guitarist may not possess.

Captain Obvious
02-20-2006, 11:20 AM
Im going out on a limb here, but ANYONE who assumes that ANYTHING is easy without having in-depth knowledge and personal experience - is an ignorant fool. my name is stooch and i approve this message.
I'm sure Dubya would approve of it as well. :p

Gettarobox
02-20-2006, 07:23 PM
I have to chime in on this thread.

I recently had a client ask me to do a previs of a housing development being built in a valley. he wanted me to show what all of the surrounding houses would see from their back yard. all he gave me for reference was a google earth map of the area. no housing development plans, no pictures from the backyards or anything.

I am convinced that these people think we are magicians.
oh yeah and of course it had to be done in a week.

Albertdup
02-21-2006, 11:33 AM
We need 75 minutes animation done in three months. 100 shots of 45 sec each. Its only two characters and some 30 odd machines they need to interact with. Itís exercises , so how hard can it be? Oh could you make a building that all this takes place in. Itís ok if itís not photo real, as long as it looks authentic.

Not to mention they have no blue prints of the machines and it must look convincing.

Itís only me, lonely me going for end of month four now. Still have 14 shots to do. Used pre-modelled equipment as far as I could, pity is it still needs to be textured, animated and donít forget the lightning. And then the challenge of rendering without a rendering farm really begins to become interesting it's only 105 000 frames after all.

Then again if you are only one of a few who can do any 3D animation in the country and donít charge an arm and a leg what else can you do. At least they are happy with what they have and are willing to wait. Especially after they got a quote from another firm showing them what I have already done.

But I wonít trade it for anything else. For there are few things as satisfactory as seeing all your hard work coming together to create something out of nothing at all.

Bog
02-21-2006, 11:50 AM
But I wonít trade it for anything else. For there are few things as satisfactory as seeing all your hard work coming together to create something out of nothing at all.

It's true, it's so very true. Shame when we get ripped off shamelessy for our love of the work and our professionalism, by people with neither soul nor pride.

Ho hum, pass the bottle and fire up the render engines, eh?

Intuition
02-21-2006, 12:55 PM
We have a few that are going to be Framed at Eden FX. We have hundreds written down.

here is a sample or two.

1. "Can you make that twentyfive percent more mysterious?"

2. "Its too photoreal, we want people to know we spent lots of money on 3d so can you make it look more like a computer made it?"

3. "The grass needs to be a quarter inch longer?" <--shot is like 50 feet in the air looking down on a house.

Captain Obvious
02-21-2006, 02:41 PM
Ho hum, pass the bottle and fire up the render engines, eh?
Grab your wine and fit F-nine!

DrTWT
02-21-2006, 02:57 PM
I'm not in the 3D business (just do some on the side for medical education), but I thought this was a funny story.

I'm on the phone with a rep from a company about buying some anatomy models for some of our projects. My boss is also on the line, as he authorizes where our grant money gets spent. He is in on the project as an editor / contributor for the written aspects~ he knows nothing about 3D.

The rep and I are discussing various details about the models, when my boss chimed in: "Exactly what are these models made of- plastic? clay? metal?"

I've tried to explain it many times to him, even showed him wireframes, but he still doesn't get it....

Netvudu
02-21-2006, 03:05 PM
From the marketing director of a company which develops a well-known 3d product (wonīt say the name, sorry guys):

"ok, so...do you have realistic render?"


(yeah, right. The "instant realism" button must be somewhere around here)

Bog
02-21-2006, 03:13 PM
(yeah, right. The "instant realism" button must be somewhere around here)

It's right under "Shading Noise Reduction" in your Global Illumination panel ;)

Netvudu
02-21-2006, 04:34 PM
lol


It's right under "Shading Noise Reduction" in your Global Illumination panel

You mean the one which makes the opposite? The "Shading Noise Addition" option? :D

Stooch
02-21-2006, 04:45 PM
there is also a make electronic music button in the plugins section.