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View Full Version : Plans to expand Lscript/Documentation?



wiremuse
02-07-2003, 08:14 PM
I'm curious if there plans to be any more indepth releases of the lscript documentation or possibly if there is any books on the subject? My primary area of interest at the moment is possiblities of writing shaders with lscript. Are there some extensive examples of this some where (some open-sourced semi-complex shaders) would be a good place to start I think if any one can point me in that direction.

I'm also curious if the upcoming and in-development version of lightwave currently has any plans to expand the lscript toolset/functions and overall usability(particularly in the area of shader development)

wgreenlee1
02-08-2003, 12:09 AM
You would think with everyone writing books on everything Lightwave that someone would grab this subject and go.

For some reason I myself am not able to grasp LScripting either.
I think with a good teacher writing a good tutorial based book about LScripting everyone would be writing.
I guess its still a very mysterious artform.
Someone was saying that there was a book by Dan Alban about Lightwave6 that he had a few things to say about LScripting.

All I need are better ways of nameing things so Lightwave will know what I'm talking about.
I see these other guys useing names and such that I cant find in the manuals at all.

Maybe after 2.6 comes out then hopefully soemonen will release a better manual and referance.Hopefully.

Elmar Moelzer
02-08-2003, 04:49 AM
Hello
I have also noticed that the L- script docs are lacking a lot of descriptions.
One example that I stumbled over lately would the the Autokey- flag. It works in LS- commander, but there is mention of it in the docs.
CU
Elmar

Aquaman
02-08-2003, 08:12 AM
I too would like to have more info on LScript. I would also love to see an LScript commander in modeler.

Tom Winnicki
02-08-2003, 11:45 AM
So you people want a detailed LScript book eh... a book loaded with tons of examples from tiny to extensive showing LScript programming techniques, tricks and tips. Since most LW users are artists and not that special artist-programmer hybrid you'd probably want the book to teach programming in general as well. Well... that can be arranged, but first I need to know that people will actually buy such a book. I see no point in putting in so much time and effort into something that will not bring in a half decent profit in the end (getting burned again).

LScript commander in modeler? Sounds like another good reason to integrate Modeler and Layout. Maybe then we'll have master class script architecture in Modeler, that would totally kick ***, however, a super-master script architecture would be the ultimate feature.

Currently there is a bug with LScript which crashes Layout as soon you try to render a scene with an LScript shader applied. Bob Hood has already addressed this issue; it has been fixed in v 2.6. And yes LScript will continue to be expanded. There are some simple shaders in C:\Program Files\LightWave 3D\Lscripts\Texture directory. You can load and view them in LSED but don't try render a scene with any of them applied because like I wrote, they'll crash Layout right away.

Elmar Moelzer
02-08-2003, 05:11 PM
Hey Tom
Me for my part would only need a more in depth description of L-scripts functions (like the autokey, tha is nowhere mentioned). I mean it is a bit hard to use if you dont know what you can do with it...
CU
Elmar

wiremuse
02-09-2003, 03:17 AM
I'm with Elmar on this one there is a lot that simply isn't covered in the manual and some more examples would be better. I would also like to state I have about 11 yrs programming experience so I certainly have no need for a ground-up type of book however I do see a decent percentage of lightwave users who would like it. Maybe you should try to run a pole on a few forums Tom. There are also some annoying limitations in Lscript I would to see improved and have it better integrated into lightwave as a whole having more control/scriptable shading networks.

I'd still be interested in seeing some code of some relatively complex shader setups done in lscript.

If any moderator comes across this thread maybe it would be best to move it over into Lscript now?

Emmanuel
02-09-2003, 07:26 AM
Hey, Tom !

It sounds like a good idea, and probably works both ways:
it will also create a wider audience for Lscript, if there is an "in depth" book.
But I think that it would be NewTek's job to get this ball rolling, since they have implemented LScript.
I am sure You already talked to them...?


:cool:

WizCraker
02-09-2003, 10:52 AM
Lscript 2.6 Black Book or
A Book on Lscript 2.6 or
Begining Lscript 2.6 or
Inside Lscript 2.6 or
Lscript 2.6 in a Nutshell and can't forget the ever so popular
Lscript 2.6 How to Program

Freak
02-10-2003, 01:42 AM
I think the LScript Docs are excellent, mailing lists, forums and plenty of free scripts around too.

Yes more would be good, but i think the amount of people who would be willing to pay for such a book would be minimal.

Even standard LW books have problems, in selling enough copies
to make a profit. So i think a Lscript version would be worse.

If you combined it to be "C" and Lscript Book. then it may have an audience. Get Worley and Ernie to write a few chapters on programming C for LW, and linking Lscript to C, writing shaders, etc.

Personally i think most shaders are too complex for Lscript to handle (or at least handle quickly) and it's far more achivebale in "C".

Psyhke
02-10-2003, 03:17 AM
Some more working title ideas for ya...


LScripting for Idiots
LScript and You
LScript, What is it Good For?
Java's from Sun, LScript's from NewTek
LScript for the Soul
Adventures in LScripting
If God Loves Me, Why Can't I Get My LScript to Work?



:cool:

WizCraker
02-10-2003, 08:52 AM
LOL, I like that last one there Psyhke.

I would have to agree with Freak, C for LW would be best with chapters on LScripting.

wiremuse
02-11-2003, 09:30 AM
Freak, You're probably quite right in that regard I don't think it would be to bad to see a Programming for Lightwave book that covered lscript as well as the plugin API a long with a decent amount of examples and some "background information" (math/function/structure relating to various plugin types) for those who don't know programming to well but enough to get them started. However someone putting that type of book together may not happen at all. We could start a Programming for Lightwave Wiki or something similar and everyone can contribute to a online colaberative book people can freely access for doc/code/examples/ideas

Dodgy
02-12-2003, 06:21 PM
I don't have any problems with the LScript shaders.... I even wrote my own...

wgreenlee1
02-12-2003, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by Dodgy
I don't have any problems with the LScript shaders.... I even wrote my own...

Can you share those along with the uncompiled scripts?
I would really love to see some more examples along with the very few that Newtek provides with Lightwave.

wiremuse
02-14-2003, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Dodgy
I don't have any problems with the LScript shaders.... I even wrote my own...

I'm with wgreenlee1 on this if you have some you could share please do. ^^

Matt
02-14-2003, 04:09 PM
why not get together and write a wicked online version, or a PDF version?

if someone knows how certain commands work inside out and can write a decent explanation, post it in.

personally I'd love a decent index of all the commands, name, what it does, what inputs/outputs it has and bit of example usage code.

in a similar way to how this site has been done (very nice this)

suture.net (http://www.suture.net/tutorials/modeling/index.htm)

examples of layout / modeller lscript structures

how to deal with user interfaces (activating gadgets) etc.

that would be nice!

and if someone did write a book, if it was cleanly designed, simple and extensive I'd buy it in a second.

Dodgy
02-14-2003, 07:18 PM
Okay dudes, here's my Wizzywax shader. It's not quite as wizzy or as waxy as it could be, but it's an example for you to play with...

Forgive my programming style, I need to practice...

(BTW, i had to change the .ls to .bmp to upload it to this forum, whatever happened to being able to attach any file format?)

Freak
02-15-2003, 01:29 AM
Yeah, there are few LScript shaders around....
I just usually find that it's usally too slow for complex shaders.

C is generally required.

But i have seen your script before Dodgy.....
Good work...... Pity about the Lscript limitation you have at the moment.

Neurostim - I agree 100% about your ideas on the book and forum and community to go along with it..... i'd buy it no worries.

Also.....

The excellent Carl..... has written some tutorials for using
LScript and C, with freely available compilers.
It's a very good starting point for this type of stuff...

http://www.clandestine.com.au/dev.htm

http://www.clandestine.com.au/lsx.htm

So their is no reason, why people can't have a go at converting free renderman shaders to LW shaders. using this info together with the Shades projects tutorial.

It's not quite a book, but it's a good start....

wgreenlee1
02-15-2003, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by Freak
Yeah, there are few LScript shaders around....
I just usually find that it's usally too slow for complex shaders.

C is generally required.

But i have seen your script before Dodgy.....
Good work...... Pity about the Lscript limitation you have at the moment.

Neurostim - I agree 100% about your ideas on the book and forum and community to go along with it..... i'd buy it no worries.

Also.....

The excellent Carl..... has written some tutorials for using
LScript and C, with freely available compilers.
It's a very good starting point for this type of stuff...

http://www.clandestine.com.au/dev.htm

http://www.clandestine.com.au/lsx.htm

So their is no reason, why people can't have a go at converting free renderman shaders to LW shaders. using this info together with the Shades projects tutorial.

It's not quite a book, but it's a good start....


Hey thanks!
Looks like some very intresting stuff to study!

wgreenlee1
02-15-2003, 01:49 AM
Originally posted by Dodgy
Okay dudes, here's my Wizzywax shader. It's not quite as wizzy or as waxy as it could be, but it's an example for you to play with...

Forgive my programming style, I need to practice...

(BTW, i had to change the .ls to .bmp to upload it to this forum, whatever happened to being able to attach any file format?)

Hey Dodgy,
Just load it as a .txt file or a .ls in a .zip.

I dont think a .bmp is going to load very easy in a paint program.

lord
02-16-2003, 05:37 PM
Personally I'd love to see a book published, I can understand that the audience would be limited, and therefore not garaunteed to be financially viable.
As for an online community driven version, I'd be concerned about issues of consistency and accuracy, I think that for people who see the benifit of learning lscript, but still feel intimidated by the word "code" might be put off by that? If it were something that was run/managed by NewTek and perhaps even part of their website, that would be great.
I found the current lscript Docs were kind of "OK" for what they were, but really needed to cover a lot more. I felt I needed more examples to compare process, and results.

Maybe it's something that NewTek needs to tackle?

c.

Freak
02-16-2003, 06:39 PM
Most of the LW authors i know and talk to often....
Have told me the exact same thing....

They make very little money from LW books, (IF Any)
it serves as a way to improve their repuatation though.

Publishers are also not easy to find, for these types of books.
Most of the authors, have hundreds or thousands of copies still in their garage.

I'd love Tom to write a book too....
I'm just trying to be honest, in saying i doubt you would reclaim the time and money spent in the efforts.

If a Full blown LW book is not financially viable, it's highly doubtfull that one on LW scripting would be.
Thats all i was saying....

On a side note: Maya's MEL scripting book, is the biggest selling Maya book in recent times.

By all means go ahead and try.... I'd buy it!
That just does not mean that everyone else would.
As for NT doing it..... Don't hold your breath!