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mykyl
01-09-2006, 08:03 AM
I have a choice to make. I can purchase Lightwave at the moment or Get Carrara 5 pro with Hexagon as a modeller and some other application for the same cost. (I already have Carrara 5 standard.)

I never usually purchase any software without trying it out first but the demo is of version 7.5.

I have Zbrush 2 and wonder if anyone has used Zbrush with Lightwave?

Who can convince me to go the lightwave route? ;)

Cheers

Mike R

toonafish
01-09-2006, 09:30 AM
I wish I could convince you, but I'm not so sure if I will continue walking the wave myself :D

If I were you I'd wait for 9.0 and see what NT cooked up.

mykyl
01-09-2006, 09:40 AM
Any particular reason?

Cheers

Mike R

JamesCurtis
01-09-2006, 09:47 AM
Despite some problems with LW 8.xx and bugs, I still believe the program to be one of the easiest to use and in many cases has the best out of the box renderer.

As for Zbrush 2 workability with LW, you can do it as long as you save [export] your model out to OBJ format from what I've heard.

Having Carrara 5 you might qualify for a competitor upgrade to LW, but you'd have to check up on that one. LW 9 looks to be promising from the preview vids I've seen, and the deal right now with Vue 5 Infinite thrown in for free sweetens the deal. LW 9 hasn't been released yet, but NewTek is working on a public beta program for early purchasers of LW 9.

LW_jackn
01-09-2006, 10:56 AM
I would have to agree with toonafish on this. I would wait for the final release of 9 before you jump in. If you can't wait that long I would have to go with something else. I already purchased so I am locked in. I bought 8.3 so 9 and vue were a gift. This is a huge release for lightwave and in my opinion will determine if it stays or if it goes for allot of its users. I hope that it stays but I would wait till we know for sure.

All programs have issues, and it really comes down to what you first learned on.

For me, the determining factor will be if LW ever requires a Windows OS version higher than XP, I will have to detatch and stagnate at whatever version I am currently using. A linux version would be nice, but I am not holding my breath either.

:)

toonafish
01-09-2006, 10:58 AM
Any particular reason?

Cheers

Mike R

as many reasons to stay, as there are to move on I guess. Otherwise I would have switched to another app already But for me the list of cons is slowly growing longer then the list of pros.

LW is still a very powerfull program and you can do almost anything with it reasonably fast. But it has been able to keep up with a lot of stuff mostly not because of NT, but because of 3rd party developers who came up with plugins and scripts to fill the gaps. It's great there is such an active LW community but the downside of all these plugins is that hardly anything works with anything.

Very often I cook up a solution for a problem just to find out along the road that it doesn't work because feature x doesn't work with feature y. So I have to start all over again.

The latest updates have been kind of a disapointment for me, a lot of the new features were 3rd party tools, or not very well implemented features. And with every update old bugs are mostly replaced with new ones.

I'm mostly a modeler, and LW Modeler was the best poly modeler around in my book for a long time. But even that has changed because of some annoying bugs that have been around for quite some time now. So I switched to Modo.

And we all now Layout is not the best animation tool around, so there's little left but the render and Fprime. But Fprime doesn't come with LW, you have to pay for it.

Regarding 9.0, I've been using LW long enough to take all the marketing and feature lists with a grain of salt. I remember IK Booster, "driven keys" and the "complete rewrite" of 6.0 just too well.

But the best thing to do is download a demo of all the apps you're considering, give them a testdrive and decide for yourself. It's not just features that count, but also if the workflow fits your needs.
Like me, a lot of people don't like to work with 3Ds Max, not because it lacks features, because it has plenty more then LW, but because they can't grasp the logic behind it. But for others it's just perfect.

Emmanuel
01-09-2006, 02:52 PM
Hey,

@toonafish:I *love* Your characters, they are really, really cool.

toby
01-09-2006, 03:01 PM
All programs have issues, and it really comes down to what you first learned on.

Well, someimtes, yea. But I first learned Max - never liked it but since I loved 3D and hadn't heard of LW or Maya I thought "well I better get a PC and Max if I want to go pro", then I found LW for the Mac, bought it, and now I have 3D and a program that I love.

Chuck
01-09-2006, 03:53 PM
Please understand that the NewTek forums are for discussion of NewTek products. It really is not appropriate to solicit recommendations regarding non-NewTek products, nor is it the proper place to offer them when people are asking about NewTek products.

We appreciate your cooperation with the necessary guidelines of our company product forums.

UnCommonGrafx
01-09-2006, 05:51 PM
Bryphi,
That ain't what he said. Read it again. Paraphrased: Diss us if you need but don't go on and on about some other app that we can't make money on.

Seems pretty fair to me.

And a lot of the drivel that's been stated about the release of [9] isn't something anyone wants to hear about their next 'child'. I'm just a user; can't imagine the shivers and anger I'd feel if I were an engineer. Our passions, and marketing savvy of other companies, has gone way overboard.

UnCommonGrafx
01-09-2006, 06:45 PM
Hmm, yup, the post is ruined... but I like to respond when I'm quoted.

I 'think' they just want to give their customers what they want without giving away too much to the competition.
Proton actually works elsewhere, too, and the vids he may have in store may be better suited for release as [9] is released. I mean, heck, the response from the last group of vids didn't do much for them. Little stuff isn't what everyone wants to see and the big stuff, the innovations, are not what >> I << want to see -->> I want it to WORK with, not to see in a less than fancy vid. Their being 'nice' has bitten them in the arse showing the last batch of vids.
I've programmed in the past and I bet they DON'T know when they will release the beta. I bet they have a DESIRED target but I, for one, am not interested in the MASSES getting it released before its ready. That's just silly.

They've said very little past "early 2006". That seems honest. What doesn't seem honest is that posts are popping up left and right putting them down for their honesty. Seems WE CAN'T TAKE THE TRUTH!

hehe, always wanted to say that line.



If beta is almost ready then they should have no problem showing us new vids.
They know about how long its going to take them to get the beta ready. Why don't we?
Don't tell your customers what they want to hear. Tell them the truth!

kopperdrake
01-09-2006, 07:38 PM
I'm with you on this one Robert - a rewrite doesn't just happen and I'd far rather the guys at Newtek took their time and got it right. Every piece of software has its problems and bugs - you move to another platform and you'll likely end up griping in another forum ;) I know Maya users who hate it but have to use it. It boils down to how your mind works in relation to the software. I for one click with LW, I hate Max which I've also used. I believe NT when they talk of a rewrite, I can't see any reason to doubt them! I also think the current offer of Vue Infinite given away is a very gracious one...a sweetener to stay onboard for regular users. Try the demo, if you like it then buy it, as simple as that :) And at its current price I really think you can't go wrong! If the new rendering engine is as fast as they say then cool :D

Dunk

toby
01-09-2006, 11:24 PM
I don't think I'll get in trouble for this tidbit - when they say the raytracing is 2-3 times faster, they're not exaggerating. It's very true.

colkai
01-10-2006, 03:02 AM
My tuppence,
I think Newtek are getting just a little fed up of the boards being a place where a lot of complaining about LW / promoting other software is going on. Especially considering how little support of LW as a product seems to be taking place.

I mean, I know we get 'downers' on every release, but this time, well, to coin a phrase "It's Everywhere". Heck, I don't work for Newtek and even i'm starting to get tired of it. ;)

Chuck
01-10-2006, 05:55 AM
Now this is where my problem is...

Instead of posting new vids or giving us an update about the beta status.
We get posts telling us not to give our personal opinion about your product.
One would think that newtek would love to hear everything its users were saying.

As Robert has already pointed out, that's pretty much the opposite of what I actually said. For that matter, what I said was merely a restatement of the moderation notice that is at the top of each forum section. Here's the Moderation Notice post from the top of this forum, for example:


Moderation Notice

The NewTek Forums are not a free speech zone, they are for professional and civil discourse regarding NewTek products by NewTek users. Those who are unable to stick to topic or unable to maintain civil conversation with others will have their accounts removed.

Promotional messages and material for competing products will be removed. The user accounts of those who demonstrably have no purpose on the NewTek forums other than to promote competing products will also be removed.


Moderation decisions are not subject to public discussion. If you have comments, send an email or private message to the moderators.

I simply posted a gentle reminder of the purposes and guidelines for this forum. If that offends you, I'm sorry, but please in future abide by those guidelines and post your comment on the matter to the moderation team privately. Your cooperation with these reasonable guidelines will be very much appreciated.

Chuck
01-10-2006, 06:10 AM
I edited my post because I am not trying to sell any other products and in that post I didn't say that those other products are better than lightwave or to buy those products. I love lightwave just as much as the rest of you. I just get real pissed when I feel like I am being jerked around buy a company that is being less then honest.

If beta is almost ready then they should have no problem showing us new vids.
They know about how long its going to take them to get the beta ready.Why don't we?

Don't tell your customers what they want to hear. Tell them the truth!

This guys/gals post has been ruined enough. So I am done with this thread.


Bryphi, please rest assured we are in fact doing our best to be responsible and responsive in our communications. By no means would we chose to create this kind of frustration in any of our customers. We have in fact publicly stated, and then restated in clearer terms when it became clear some of our users did not understand our initial statement, that there are in fact key elements to be completed and a good many issues that must be addressed before we will be able to start the public beta, and then bring the product to release.

What you are asking for seems to me to be an exercise in further frustration - another date announced that by its very essence is an estimate that is going to be subject to change, when the best course at this point seems simply to do our best to let you know we are progressing as fast as we can, and then to announce when we are ready to commence the public beta.

We wish we didn't have to ask for more patience on your part, but we do and any forbearance you and fellow LightWavers can extend will be greatly appreciated.

colkai
01-10-2006, 07:44 AM
We wish we didn't have to ask for more patience on your part, but we do and any forbearance you and fellow LightWavers can extend will be greatly appreciated.
Consider my forebearance well and truly extended Chuck. :)

Err, why does that have a slightly dirty sound to it? :devil:

>>shuffles off to get a coffee<<

mykyl
01-10-2006, 09:01 AM
A couple of folks have mentioned trying the demo and that is an issue the demo is of version 7.5 and doesnt really allow proper testing as such. It took me an age just to find the face selection tool when trying it out before realising they were along the bottom. lol. Also undo was U instead of the normal CTRL-Z although I read somewhere this has now been changed.
Extrude doesnt seem to do what I am used to. Instead the Smooth SHift tool seems to be the actual extrude tool. :bangwall: I have selected a polygon and used the smooth shift tool to 'extrude' this face out and now I cant figure out how to change to a new face. I am locked onto that face. Then I realise I have to deselect the first face and then choose another one. Seems strange. (Edit : Nope thats not how it works. I dont have a clue whats going on lol)

Anyway I am forced to rely on peoples views of the current software.

I am attracted to Lightwave for a number of reasons. First being the pretty full toolset without having to resort from day one to third party plugins. Also the render engine is just stunning in my eyes.

At the end of the day I am still seriously thinking about Lightwave even though this thread has been terrifying to be honest. lol.

Cheers

Mike R

Dodgy
01-10-2006, 10:15 AM
Okay, some simple guides to modeler :)

If you want to select a face and have nothing else selected, you can click on it with the LMB, draw a lasso around it with the RMB, or MMB.

Once you have something selected, you DESELECT it with LMB click, or lasso with RMB. To ADD to the selection either press Shift/LMB or Shift and lasso with the RMB, or just the MMB.

Once you have your selection, click a tool. The controls then are dependent on the tools, with LMB usually = use tool, while RMB = finish and start tool again (like RMB will draw out a new bevel with the bevel tool) OR draw out modification area (for the bend tool this will draw out the area of influence).

Once you've finished with your tool, pressing space will drop the tool.

Pressing space without a tool selected will cycle to the next selection type (either points or polygons).

You can deselect all points or polygons (depending on the selection mode) by pressing the / key or clicking on the side bar in an empty space.

Earl
01-10-2006, 10:43 AM
Another key idea to LW's modeler is that if nothing is selected then the tool consideres EVERYTHING as selected. This may be a little weird at first, but once you're used to it the method becomes very productive!

The extrude tool does actually work like an extrude should, but perhaps due to the selection confusion it doesn't appear to on your end. Smooth Shift is slightly different. See the attached image. I started out with two flat (2D) squares. The next two images show these squares after being modified by the tools. The red one has been extruded (which creates a new face and connecting "sides" with the original face), the blue one has been smooth shifted (which does not create a new face, but rather shifts the current face while creating "sides"). The end result may look similar, but the smooth shift'ed one does not have a rear face (since the back face was shifted forward, rather than copied).

LW_jackn
01-10-2006, 11:13 AM
My opinion is that anyone trying to buy a product that is the end all, do all... is always going to be dissappointed. That said, I think Lightwave comes darn close...

It is especially cool in my eyes, that for those things wich aren't in the box at purchase, can be found as plugin relatively easy and cheaply. The fact lightwave is open to 3rd party developers is an asset. And Lightwave comes with a lot to begin with.

I think it's worth it! ;)

kopperdrake
01-10-2006, 11:37 AM
Consider my forebearance well and truly extended Chuck. :)

Err, why does that have a slightly dirty sound to it? :devil:

>>shuffles off to get a coffee<<

<slap> and whilst you're at the sink, get a cold bucket of water :D

UnCommonGrafx
01-10-2006, 11:38 AM
Man! For a ruined thread, you guys sure got it back on target. hehe

For anyone reading this and getting nervous about a purchase of LW, rest assured that it's us Alive LW Plugins that assist in making it the great product it is. Said a bit simpler, The COMMUNITY is the best plugin you don't have to buy in order to get the most out of LightWave.

Back to Wavin' and my beloved VT!

kopperdrake
01-10-2006, 11:48 AM
You took the words right out of my mouth UnCommon! These forums and the countless others out there are great for any LW artist! As an example, I asked a question at just gone 3am this morning for a last minute meeting this afternoon (yes - I'm a LW imsoniac ;) ) and 32 minutes later a guy from the other side of the world answered me with a helpful and courteous answer. The one thing I can assure you of is that the vast majority of Lightwavers are a friendly bunch that go out of their way to help other artists.

If you buy it then you definately won't be disappointed with the help you get - however, you have to make your own mind up about the software - though I'd say 'buy it' of course ;) Any independent 3D developer who hasn't sold out over the last few turbulent years has, in my mind, got the software so close to their hearts that they couldn't envisage selling up! Passion like that is a rare commodity and bodes well for us LWers :thumbsup:

PS I'm not a LW evangelist, just a satisfied realist :)

UnCommonGrafx
01-10-2006, 11:59 AM
I am a NewTek Evangelist.
And fanboy.
And aficionado.
Without apology ... as the bills get paid without me having to go too far from home. Or my PJs. They've sold tools that have made dreams I didn't know I had, come to life. But -->>I<<--- had to do the work. The 'magic' of lw was only the inspiration. Gosh, I'm just a blabberin'...

stefanhartman
01-10-2006, 12:07 PM
so temting
Sorry for trouble now..but can anyone please tell me where to get a demo of LW..i only saw upgrade downloads? ?

Earl
01-10-2006, 12:17 PM
so temting
Sorry for trouble now..but can anyone please tell me where to get a demo of LW..i only saw upgrade downloads? ?
The upgrade downloads (of version 7.5) should install and work as a full demo. However, I would suggest you contact NewTek. They ship the current version (8.5) as a demo on a CD free of charge. In your case, perhaps NewTek Europe should be contacted.

lardbros
01-10-2006, 12:34 PM
I don't think I'll get in trouble for this tidbit - when they say the raytracing is 2-3 times faster, they're not exaggerating. It's very true.

Don't think you'll get in trouble?? Well, you are now... you owe me the money for my cleaning bill... and for a new seat cover, this is far too exciting!!! :D

UnCommonGrafx
01-10-2006, 12:39 PM
Those would be it. That is to say, without a dongle, it is the demo version.

mattclary
01-10-2006, 01:37 PM
so temting
Sorry for trouble now..but can anyone please tell me where to get a demo of LW..i only saw upgrade downloads? ?


Right here:
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

UnCommonGrafx
01-10-2006, 01:51 PM
You should have. :hey:

Again, without apology. (I'm so Bush-y)


I am glad we got that out in the open :agree:

moral of the quote is...
chose who you take your advice from carefully!

sorry I couldn't resist.

Chris S. (Fez)
01-10-2006, 01:52 PM
Don't think you'll get in trouble?? Well, you are now... you owe me the money for my cleaning bill... and for a new seat cover, this is far too exciting!!! :D

Does "faster raytracing" mean faster radiosity?

lardbros
01-10-2006, 02:04 PM
Does "faster raytracing" mean faster radiosity?


I have a suspicion that it doesn't... but hey, what do i know about it?

To me raytracing means just reflection, refraction, and transparent stuff, and possibly SSS too, but i'm not too hot on any of the programmer ways.

Chris S. (Fez)
01-10-2006, 02:44 PM
I have a suspicion that it doesn't... but hey, what do i know about it?

To me raytracing means just reflection, refraction, and transparent stuff, and possibly SSS too, but i'm not too hot on any of the programmer ways.

Well, until our suspicions are confirmed, we might as well hope...

I'd love see far faster radiosity in 9, along with direct/indirect lighting buffers.

kopperdrake
01-10-2006, 02:56 PM
Ooh - I feel a sweepstake coming on ;)

I bet you your stash of unused loo-roll (what do you call that in the States?)that radiosity is, approximately, 2.3 times faster :D

Dunk

GregMalick
01-10-2006, 03:15 PM
LOL


loo = toilet :jester:

I'd say this is good ole toilet-paper.

kopperdrake
01-10-2006, 05:49 PM
heh :D yep! We call it that too: toilet paper, loo roll, 'bog' roll :)

(sorry for hijacking this thread btw ;) )

mykyl
01-10-2006, 06:08 PM
I got my demo cd from Newtek and it was 7.5 they sent not 8.5. I was told there was no demo newer than 7.5.

Cheers

Mike R

toby
01-10-2006, 11:34 PM
I got my demo cd from Newtek and it was 7.5 they sent not 8.5. I was told there was no demo newer than 7.5.

Cheers

Mike R
While that does seem silly, it will work great as a demo. Everything you learn in 7.5 will apply to 8.5, though there may be a faster / easier way of doing it in 8.5...

Chuck
01-11-2006, 06:06 AM
I got my demo cd from Newtek and it was 7.5 they sent not 8.5. I was told there was no demo newer than 7.5.

Cheers

Mike R

That would be very puzzling - was this request through our customer services department in the US? Since 8.0 was released we'd been issuing the 8.0 program CD as a discovery edition, and are now sending out the 8.5 CD. If you'll contact our CS again, I'm sure we can get you the proper CD, and our apologies for any mixup that may have occurred on the part of our staff.

mykyl
01-11-2006, 06:25 AM
This is for Europe. I asked about a demo and was told that they only do them for v7.5 and they sent that disk out.

Thanks

Mike R

spec24
01-27-2006, 10:56 AM
Why doesn't Newtek have a downloadable demo like almost everyone else?

LW_jackn
01-27-2006, 11:31 AM
I prefer them to spend the time to polish their product. ;)

BazC
01-27-2006, 12:22 PM
Why doesn't Newtek have a downloadable demo like almost everyone else?

Apparently they're planning one when LW9 is released.

Kurtis
01-27-2006, 01:58 PM
Apparently they're planning one when LW9 is released.

That is correct. We've stated a few times before that we will be developing a downloadable time-limited demo version of LightWave 9 after the full version of LightWave 9 is released. In the meantime, demos can be requested by email or toll free number, and there is no charge for the CD or the shipping.

spec24
01-27-2006, 07:16 PM
That is correct. We've stated a few times before that we will be developing a downloadable time-limited demo version of LightWave 9 after the full version of LightWave 9 is released. In the meantime, demos can be requested by email or toll free number, and there is no charge for the CD or the shipping.

that's good - that will certainly help out those interested. :thumbsup:

mykyl
01-30-2006, 05:44 AM
Well I went off and purchased Carrara 5 standard version for quicky things while deciding.

I also went off and tried out the XSI demo and quite liked it. (Took a bit of getting used to though. ;) )

So why the heck am I back here then, I hear you ask.

Because after all is said and done Lightwave has the tools I want and need. I dont know what the future of Lightwave will be but I am confident from what I have seen that it will be ****ed good.

Hopefully in the next few days I will get my purchase ordered and then I hope that you folks will help me get up to speed.

Cheers

Mike R