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munguia.j
12-30-2005, 02:35 PM
Hi im begining my animation proyect wich is call "X Awakening". I want to model my principal character "X" and I was planning to use Lightwave an ZBrush, but I think that I could have some advice for this character.

Qualities from "X"
The Structure of the body is similar to Jack (nightmare before Christmas)
It doesnt have skin, because its all made of wire.
It has blue eyes the glow all the time, and sometimes the glow intensity changes.

Thanks Ill apreciate any kind of help or advice.

jasonwestmas
12-30-2005, 04:21 PM
For starters, construct your model in lightwave using subdivision patches. After that is completed I guess I'd use one 2048 texture for the head, one for each arm, one for each leg and two for the torso and pelvis. However, the amount of textures would depend upon how close you want the camera to be to the model. The closer the camera is, the more details and the more texture space you will need. To make the wire look really good I think you should use displacements. Zbrush is definately the best choice for making displacement maps. When sculpting in Zbrush be careful not to make the wire look too lumpy and experiment using the "std", "nudge" and "pinch" tools in the transform menu.
Another thing to be aware of is that Zbrush will only let you work with one displacement texture at a time. So inside Lightwave convert your subpatches back to polygons just export each part of the model according to how the texture maps are divided up. For example: If the character's "head" has it's own texture map, only export the head for sculpting detail within Zbrush. After you've subdivided your model in Zbrush, finish sculpting the head and then generate the displacement map. After that, then import the next "texture grouped" member of your character model, such as the left arm or leg.

Hope this helps ^.^

lesterfoster
12-31-2005, 01:58 PM
You should check out Norm-Js Rope plug-in. It looks like this could be a job for that. There is the website:.. http://www.next4d.com/index.htm

SplineGod
12-31-2005, 04:43 PM
How dense is the wire? Can you see thru it?
I would use a combination of a base underlying geometry that is simple and has texture maps. On top I would use geometry for the wire. You can create wire by copying the character geometry into another layer and subdividing it then killing the polys but leave the points. Select all the points in the head and use the create open spline tool. Use the spline to rail extrude a poly to get the wire for the head. Do the same for the arms, legs, torso etc.

munguia.j
12-31-2005, 07:46 PM
First of all, thanks for all the advices.
I have check in different forums for help and advice and basicely i found 4 ways to model it (im planning to use Zbrush and Lightwave for this work).

a) Normal model with normall UV mapping created in lightwave.
b) Normal model with normal UV mapping, with generated wire with the Rope Editor Plus. (lightwave)
c) Simple geometry model with UV mapping and generated splinnes as wire (lightwave).
d) Simple geometry model created in lightwave with UV maps with generated displacements created in Zbrush.

At this moment im preparing myself to make excersises and try with each one of this options, but i will appreciate mor advices for this. Im postin an image from sketchzone that shows what i want to do. Fo other side, im thinking that X has to been made in a way that you can look through the wires.

Thanks and Happy new year to everyone!

TomR
12-31-2005, 08:19 PM
Hi happy new year!

If you use Zbrush wound not the numbers of polys become very high?
I thinking of, if you going to make a amnim.. what hardware is recomended then?

ScottSullivan
01-01-2006, 02:21 PM
I wish I could help more on the tech side of this, but I think I know less than everyone else here! I'm trying to learn ZBrush as well. I just picked up the demo copy of ZBrush given away in this month's 3D World.

In fact, on the cover of 3D World is a picture in the same style (sort of) that you're working on and the artist, Meats Meier, is the same as the image you provided. He explains on page 46 how he created his textures with ZBrush.

Good luck!

Scott

SplineGod
01-02-2006, 05:16 AM
After thinking about it a bit what I would do is create the head, neck, torso, arms, hands, fingers etc using rail extruded geometry.
A simple way to do this is to create a simple model of the overall shape using polys in layer 1. In layer 2 use the spray points tool to create a lot of points.
Use boolean intersection to kill all the points except the ones that fall within the volume of your character. Do this in small sections as I mentioned for the head, neck, torso etc. Once you select the points inside the head hit ctrl + j to create a spline. Rail extrude a square poly along this spline. Turn on subpatches and freeze. Youll probably want to do this at a reasonable level. You can take each of the wires for the head, neck, torso, arms etc and assemble them. You can also add other bits and pieces.
Before rail extrude create a UV map for the template polygon so you can automatically create the UVs for the wire. This will make it easier to create textures or use normal maps etc.
Anyways, heres a quick example of what I talked about.

NanoGator
01-05-2006, 12:17 PM
Pretty smooth, Larry. Learn somethin new every day. :)

Chris S. (Fez)
01-05-2006, 12:37 PM
Very cool Larry!

jasonwestmas
01-05-2006, 12:42 PM
Hi happy new year!

If you use Zbrush wound not the numbers of polys become very high?
I thinking of, if you going to make a amnim.. what hardware is recomended then?

The polycount would be really high but I would just use subdivision patches with displacement mapping which is a lot less taxing on your system then just using raw polygons. At least that's my understanding. You wouldn't want to import a million poly model into Lightwave from Zbush and try to animate that;)

If the rope/wire is not seethrough I would just use displacement mapping, though splinegod's see-through technique is a really cool idea and would take less time than sculpting the rope details by hand using Zbrush.

Another idea just occured to me:

Use displacement mapping along with Splingod's technique. Combining highly detailed areas (like Meats Meier) using displacement mapping with see- through areas using point extrusions like Splinegod described. This would look quite interesting for sure!

jeremyhardin
01-05-2006, 01:09 PM
After thinking about it a bit what I would do is create the head, neck, torso, arms, hands, fingers etc using rail extruded geometry.
A simple way to do this is to create a simple model of the overall shape using polys in layer 1. In layer 2 use the spray points tool to create a lot of points.
Use boolean intersection to kill all the points except the ones that fall within the volume of your character. Do this in small sections as I mentioned for the head, neck, torso etc. Once you select the points inside the head hit ctrl + j to create a spline. Rail extrude a square poly along this spline. Turn on subpatches and freeze. Youll probably want to do this at a reasonable level. You can take each of the wires for the head, neck, torso, arms etc and assemble them. You can also add other bits and pieces.
Before rail extrude create a UV map for the template polygon so you can automatically create the UVs for the wire. This will make it easier to create textures or use normal maps etc.
Anyways, heres a quick example of what I talked about.
Larry, while the wire flows in yours were a bit more random than meats meiers, your method seems a bit quicker than the ways meiers says to do it in ZBrush.

looks cool too! though I could see the polycount becoming a potential problem.

SplineGod
01-05-2006, 01:36 PM
Its definately more random but I literally spent about 15-20 minutes making this example. I can use the same technique to give it some more form or flow. :)
I agree that it could potentially become a problem. I would probably bury some simpler geometry possbily with clip maps down underneath. Theres a lot of tricks that can be used to optimize this. The method is simple enough though. Another option would also be to use some densely packed strings of points and use HVs to create the wire.
The nice thing is that some things can be turned off until render time. :)

5had0w
01-05-2006, 01:50 PM
"Can I be a master on LightWave?" Answer: "Never!" lol =P I'm also new here and at LW dude (Scott Sullivan). But now that i'm getting familiar with LW i am starting to read some books and at this summer i'll show you all who's the boss :thumbsup: lol =P

And that is very cool SplineGod :) you are saying that you made that in 15-20min? Cool (can I be like you at LW? =P) lol

jeremyhardin
01-06-2006, 11:11 AM
Its definately more random but I literally spent about 15-20 minutes making this example. I can use the same technique to give it some more form or flow. :)
I agree that it could potentially become a problem. I would probably bury some simpler geometry possbily with clip maps down underneath. Theres a lot of tricks that can be used to optimize this. The method is simple enough though. Another option would also be to use some densely packed strings of points and use HVs to create the wire.
The nice thing is that some things can be turned off until render time. :)
indeed. great method you have there.

SplineGod
01-06-2006, 11:47 AM
Shadow,
Just send two lightwave boxtops and $100,000 to:
I wanna be a LightWave Master
PO Box... :)

Jeremy,
Thanks!

A couple of other things came to mind while thinking this over.
Magic bevel would be a good way to create some fo the parts.
Many of the pictrix plugins such as C-Bend would also make doing
this much easier as well. Everyone should check them out. :)
Heres an example of what can be done using the HV and dense points technique:
http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/examples/geodome.mov