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Dave Allen
12-21-2005, 11:38 PM
I would like to know what some of you out there do for mapping large image maps on an object. Either it be procedural or UV.

I have a high resolution map of the earth (40,000x20000) that I have UV mapped onto a sphere. Unfortunately, the largest I can make the texture before layout ignores my commands is about 8192 x 4100 give or take a few hundered pixels. If I resample my image to any higher resolution than that, it will not work. Trying to replace the image map with the replace command in the editor "nulls" out the maps in the affected surface and the image that was being replaced disappears. How do you guys handle large image maps?

This brings up another question. Is it better to load a very large map into memory at once or a bunch of smaller maps? I have taken my earth object and map and sliced up the UV's and image maps into 32 seemless surfaces. I then have to manually load the surfaces for 32 seperate surfaces which is time consuming. My intention being that if I wanted to zoom into one side of the earth I could up the res on that side and lose the maps altogther on the opposite side.

Now I realize that this is all going to be a moot point once I get either infimap or terratracer on the system. It has bothered me for a while though. :twak:

Thanks,
Dave Allen

BeeVee
12-22-2005, 01:46 AM
You need to understand how LightWave treats images to realise that yes, you could map it plain, but you'd need a gargantuan amount of memory. Forget Terratracer, go for Infinimap - the demo version works beautifully and the full version even works with FPrime.

B

BazC
12-22-2005, 03:07 AM
You might want to reconsider whether you need such high resolution, there is a limit to how much detail can be shown in renders and I can't think of any reason to use textures anywhere near that size. If you're going to show extreme closeups maybe you should think about texturing just the area that will be shown in extreme detail. - Baz

MooseDog
12-22-2005, 03:47 AM
I'd second BazC. Level of Detail is your friend :thumbsup: .

It's my understanding that as well, your texture only need be twice the size of your final outputted render to look sharp and be effective.

Lightwolf
12-22-2005, 03:52 AM
You might want to reconsider whether you need such high resolution, there is a limit to how much detail can be shown in renders and I can't think of any reason to use textures anywhere near that size.
Hehe, I can ;)

Dave, feel free to download infiniMap Pro, the unregistered version supports planar mapping as a shader for free, so you can try out how it handles your image.

40,000 x 20,000 is absolutely no problem though, some of our customers render images that are terabytes large.

Cheers,
Mike

Lightwolf
12-22-2005, 03:54 AM
I'd second BazC. Level of Detail is your friend :thumbsup: .

It's my understanding that as well, your texture only need be twice the size of your final outputted render to look sharp and be effective.
In general yes.... if you don't move the camera. If you intend to do a flyover terrain you will need a much larger image map though, or be prepared to slice up your animation....

Cheers,
Mike

starbase1
12-22-2005, 04:23 AM
I agree - I've been twitching to do a really long zoom in on Earth for some time, (and if I can get an image with detail down to my street, great!).

Not tried infinimap yet - does the free version ONLY do flat, or can I use it to map earth?

Nick

Lightwolf
12-22-2005, 04:51 AM
Not tried infinimap yet - does the free version ONLY do flat, or can I use it to map earth?

Hey, we need an incentive for people to actually buy it ;)

... But you can morph a plane to a sphere :D

Cheers,
Mike

Dave Allen
12-22-2005, 07:23 AM
You need to understand how LightWave treats images to realise that yes, you could map it plain, but you'd need a gargantuan amount of memory. Forget Terratracer, go for Infinimap - the demo version works beautifully and the full version even works with FPrime.

B
I want the highest detail if I know I am going to go 1:1 on the image. Otherwise I would LOVE to keep it looser.

Wolf,
I wish your company wasn't foreign (I like Germany :). I would be all over it. I will start the process of getting you into our system (months in process). Can you think of an American application that does the compression? Also, how are your products licensed? I completely the understand the implications of your product. Does it do bump mapping?

BeeVee,
At some point (i.e 10000x5000) I am just unable to map the texture, tons of ram or not.

Could someone do a quick test and see how high of resolution they can push a UV map on their system?

Thanks,
Dave Allen

Lightwolf
12-22-2005, 07:33 AM
Wolf,
I wish your company wasn't foreign (I like Germany :). I would be all over it. I will start the process of getting you into our system (months in process). Can you think of an American application that does the compression? Also, how are your products licensed? I completely understand your product though.
Hi Dave,
no problem, I fully understand the restrictions in some areas ...

The application that does the compression is Australian, have a look at the documentation included with infiniMap Pro, it links to a couple of alternative JPEG 2000 compressors (I don't have the list here at the moment).

Licensing is (I hope) extremely fair:

infiniMap Pro is tied to your LW dongle.
You can load, save and render scenes/objects created with the registered version on any LW installation that runs the unregistered version (you just won't be able to edit any settings).
Free support and point upgrades (up to, but not including, 2.0).
Site and volume licenses are available upon request.


I hope this answers your questions.

Cheers,
Mike :santa: (t'is the season ;) )

starbase1
12-22-2005, 09:17 AM
Hey, we need an incentive for people to actually buy it ;)

... But you can morph a plane to a sphere :D

Cheers,
Mike

No problem - I completely understand. It's just that as an amatuer, its outside my budget.

Lightwolf
12-22-2005, 09:24 AM
No problem - I completely understand. It's just that as an amatuer, its outside my budget.
We're quite aware of that...
However, most of the data that our customers use is _much_ more expensive than the plugin...

Cheers,
Mike

CAClark
12-22-2005, 10:10 AM
So is it beneficial to use infinimap pro for all texturing, or only huge textures?

Cheers!

Lightwolf
12-22-2005, 10:30 AM
Hi CAClark,

So is it beneficial to use infinimap pro for all texturing, or only huge textures?

Cheers!
Well, this is in a way hard to tell really. It can be quite beneficial for all kinds of image textures if:
a) they are large (image textures for film-res rendering come to mind) - i.e. in the thousands of pixels or 10s of MBs range
b) you use plenty of image textures

The neat thing is that infiniMap Pro only loads the parts of the image that it needs to render the current image into memory. In the case of objects that are far away, it also loads a lower resolution image only (basically a kind of disc based mip-mapping).

We've also had the case of people using infiniMap Pro that can only load and render parts of their scene because of the huge texture image demands. With infiniMap Pro they could sonsolidate their scenes to render in a single pass.
A nice side effect of using infiniMap Pro is that scenes load quicker, since LW doesn't need to load the large images you use for texturing into RAM when loading the scene. It only loads them on-demand when rendering.

The largest caveat currently is the fact that infiniMap Pro doesn't support UV mapping in the procedural texture layer plugin, only in the shader. This unfortunately is a limitation of the LW SDK.

On the positive side though: We will support the new nodal graph as soon as possible... and I hope we can access UVs from there. (This will be a free point upgrade of course :D )

I hope this answers some of your questions.

Cheers,
Mike