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cavalos
05-11-2003, 06:07 PM
I think V-ray can be the next "king of the hill" in rendering arena anytime soon considering its features, speed and price...I mean, if I have to choose between Brazil, final render and bla, bla, bla.
LW looks pretty good in stills but is very much unusable in animations. Baking radiosity can help but anyone with an experienced eye can note the "fake" when objects start to move and the scene changes.

Best
Christian

Form:

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3353

harhar
05-11-2003, 07:11 PM
integrate ambient occlusion into LW.

cavalos
05-12-2003, 09:35 AM
http://www.pixels3d.com/products/ambient.html

"PiXELS 3D version 4.5 is proud to be the first commercial software to bring the professional power of Ambient Occlusion to your Mac!"

I feel a bit of shame right now...can we have some of this on LW?

Best
Christian

cgolchert
05-13-2003, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by harhar
integrate ambient occlusion into LW.

That is what gMIL does. That was written around the same time ILM was bragging about it in Pearl Harbor.

hrgiger
05-13-2003, 10:14 PM
I think it would be kind of cool to have a spinning light feature in the Radiosity panel which would allow you to use shadow mapped softlights for fast rendering.

harhar
05-13-2003, 10:34 PM
gmil is a very good ambient occlusion shader.

Emmanuel
05-15-2003, 06:17 AM
no documentation renders it worthless

Red_Oddity
05-15-2003, 07:16 AM
Oh please Emmanuel, that makes the entire Lightwave software worthless with that statement...
Just play around a bit with it, it has no more than 12 buttons...And besides, most of it is self explanatory...

harhar
05-15-2003, 05:26 PM
even people with brain tumor can figure out how to use it.

Matt
05-15-2003, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by hrgiger
I think it would be kind of cool to have a spinning light feature in the Radiosity panel which would allow you to use shadow mapped softlights for fast rendering.

I'm sure Eki would be pleased if NT implemented that!! :)

marko
05-17-2003, 05:38 AM
cebas has implemented real camera what i have been asking for years on old forum.

http://www.finalrender.com/products/feature.asp?UD=10-7888-35-788&PID=36&FID=377

regards,
marko

Panikos
05-17-2003, 07:29 AM
Yes, Yes, come on Newtek, please
:(

mercz
05-17-2003, 10:22 AM
YES,
I vote for an implementation of real camera too!

Martin

cgolchert
05-17-2003, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by marko
cebas has implemented real camera what i have been asking for years on old forum.

I understand that it is part of final render, but what does real camera have to do with the GI thread? Or did you just hijack the thread?

marko
05-17-2003, 02:42 PM
hijacking

cgolchert
05-17-2003, 03:02 PM
cool :)

Exper
05-21-2003, 06:31 AM
Take a look:
KRAY.TRACING.SYSTEM
http://www.kray.prv.pl/

marko
05-21-2003, 06:42 AM
http://www.winosi.onlinehome.de/Comp1.htm

check how they perform

Emmanuel
05-21-2003, 11:51 AM
I see that LW 7.5 took 8,5 minutes on a single Athlon 1700 with 512 Mb, while Vray took 2 minutes on a DUAL Athlon 1800+ with 1 GB Ram.
How long does the LW render take on such a machine ?
Real Camera, to me, isn't as important that it couldn't be a third party plugin.

cavalos
05-21-2003, 07:25 PM
Yeah, V-ray is the king of speed, faster than Brazil and of course many times faster than Lightwave but IMHO not as accurate as LW algorithms (discounting sthocastic GI). It seems V-ray uses a lot of tricks and smart workarounds that ends in pretty pictures and animations. I like it so much but I see A LOT more potential in lightwave if NT can implement advanced features and fix some old old oooold problems...come on NT the main portion of code is there!!

Best
Christian

harhar
05-21-2003, 10:17 PM
nobody would implement winOSI, because it integrates GI and caustics into its core raytracing routine. You can't turn GI and caustics off, so it would be very slow.

Yog
05-22-2003, 07:38 AM
As well as owning Lightwave I also own Max with the Final Render and Vray 3rd party renderers.

One area that Vray and Final Render score big over Lightwave is that you have a lot of control over where the GI samples are taken, you can for instance concentrate them where there is a lot of variation in angle, colour, normal changes etc and have them wide apart in other areas. This means you need far fewer samples to achieve the same result as Lightwave (LW is more of a scatter gun approach to samples).
All three renderers will do "brute force" (monte carlo) rendering, and at that point they are all roughly the same, which seems to point to the fact that the basic calculations are similar, it's more to do with efficient use of samples. This also seems to be confirmed by talk of the upcoming next release of Final Render which speaks of good results with even fewer samples.

Vray also has a number of different methods available for blending the samples which makes it very easy to have flicker free animations with HDR lighting only.
Other very nice features in Vray are :- the abilty to weight the intensity if primary and secondary light bounces, the ability to skew the light intensity between dark and light areas, the ability to save a full GI solution externally for future renders without any new calculation, surface/light baking with no decernable hit on render times, incrimental add to a GI solution (render every 20th frame and all the inbetween frames render with little or no recalculation), and the ability to do your test renders at a small resolution then use that GI solution on your full res render without recalculating (it becomes a little less accurate, but as long as you don't more than double the size the results are often acceptable).

Newtek have often said that their GI renderer is more accurate than others. This may well be true, but as long as it "looks" right and "looks" good, I don't really care about such small differences as long as it is as fast as possible.

cavalos
05-22-2003, 12:37 PM
I hope when NT start to making or rewriting the code for newer versions (more advanced and smarter) of the GI rendering algorithms they add a lot of flexibility and of course don´t substract the old and accurate methods. As I said many times before, is good to have options to play with.

Best
Christian

Emmanuel
05-23-2003, 03:41 AM
Well,

NewTek introduced Radiosity as a standard feature for desktop 3D software with L6, and I guess that they will work on their implementation to be up to par with any other.
The others were the ones who had to catch up, now its NewTeks turn again to set the new standards :)

Yog
05-23-2003, 03:56 AM
I agree that Newtek have a history of implementing some really good features early on in the game i.e. Subdivision Surfaces (Meta-Nurbs), Soft Body Dynamics (Motion Designer) and Global Illumination, but they also have a history of putting off further development of those features for several years, allowing competitors to not only catch up but over take them.

I know there are some features that have been waiting longer for an overhaul, but I do hope that GI jumps the que and gets a revamp for LW8.

Exper
05-23-2003, 05:31 AM
Take a look:
LightWave 3DŽ [8] at SIGGRAPH 2003
"Development for this release of LightWaveŽ will focus on workflow and user interface improvements. In addition, LightWave [8] will include enhancements to character animation tools and game development tools, as well as improved integration with other production tools and with 3rd party add-ons."

Complete:
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3723

cavalos
05-23-2003, 01:25 PM
Sadly that doesn´t sound like a fix or revamp of GI.

Exper
05-30-2003, 04:29 AM
New things to be said here.... ;)

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&postid=35371

Originally posted by hrgiger
How do you know there's no GI revamp? You don't.
Chuck has stated that the improvements in LW8 are not limited to those areas mentioned. Good news... LW8 will probably have a GI revamp! :) :) :)

Then...
another good GI:
RayDiffuse 2.0
http://www.lightengine3d.com/index2.html

Bye.

cgolchert
05-30-2003, 04:46 AM
Where did you get that from?

hrgiger's line about "How do you know there's no GI revamp? You don't."?

I've read that thread and that is the closest I saw to any "announcement" about the GI revamp.

Exper
05-30-2003, 05:01 AM
hrgiger say: "Chuck has said it!"
I dunno where/when hrgiger has kept this information but look at his own profile: "Super Member"
:p

Antoher thing:
KRAY.TRACING.SYSTEM - http://www.kray.prv.pl/
loads LW objects! ;)

Bye.

cgolchert
05-30-2003, 05:13 AM
no...

" Chuck has stated that the improvements in LW8 are not limited to those areas mentioned."


There is a big difference between "not being limited to other areas" and that "GI is getting a revamp". Just that statment alone might mean that the color picker is the only other thing getting worked on. You are reading way too much into that post.


"Super member" just means that he posts here a lot, not that he know they mysteries of the universe.

Exper
05-30-2003, 05:31 AM
Originally posted by cgolchert

There is a big difference between "not being limited to other areas" and that "GI is getting a revamp". Just that statment alone might mean that the color picker is the only other thing getting worked on. You are reading way too much into that post.Yes. You're right; we're waiting LW8 for sooooo long... impatience makes all of us a little too much hopeful.
"Super member" just means that he posts here a lot, not that he know they mysteries of the universe. Just a little joke. :p

Bye.