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richgrafx
12-18-2005, 08:33 AM
all i want for christmas is an update on the status of lw9

SaturnX
12-18-2005, 08:56 AM
It'll probably be coming in the next newsletter... maybe

:thumbsup:

hrgiger
12-18-2005, 09:09 AM
all i want for christmas is an update on the status of lw9


Nah, forget the update. I'll take Lightwave 9.

Pavlov
12-18-2005, 09:16 AM
Nah, forget the update. I'll take Lightwave 9.

hmm.. from the movies posted here, i hope i *dont* read something about the status... let them work.
I hope to see something i can call a true update, something finally up to date. Even if it's released in july, no problem... but it must be, well, new.

Paolo Zambrini

Wonderpup
12-18-2005, 02:59 PM
I think being late with 9 is understandable- these things happen.

What is not understandable is not telling people about it. If I am working on a job and I realise I am not going to be able to meet the deadline, I tell the client as soon as I can- otherwise they will be angry when the truth is suddenly sprung upon them.

I preordered the upgrade for three reasons- the Vue offer was a very good one, I really like working with Lightwave and want to continue doing so, and I felt really positive about way things were being handled re Lightwaves development.
But now I'm not so sure- the lack of confirmed information is worrying and the content of some of the recently posted demo's borders on insulting.

I do not want to be patronised, I want to be informed- surely this is a reasonable request?

geothefaust
12-18-2005, 04:00 PM
I think being late with 9 is understandable- these things happen.

What is not understandable is not telling people about it. If I am working on a job and I realise I am not going to be able to meet the deadline, I tell the client as soon as I can- otherwise they will be angry when the truth is suddenly sprung upon them.

I preordered the upgrade for three reasons- the Vue offer was a very good one, I really like working with Lightwave and want to continue doing so, and I felt really positive about way things were being handled re Lightwaves development.
But now I'm not so sure- the lack of confirmed information is worrying and the content of some of the recently posted demo's borders on insulting.

I do not want to be patronised, I want to be informed- surely this is a reasonable request?


With that said, considering they [Newtek] haven't had any news on LW (good OR bad), also considering the time frame they said of release is Q4, it is safe to say, that we'll see it in Q4. I'm new to the boards here, but I'm not new to customers making assumptions, and being rude based on those assumptions.

Instead of everyone being naysayers, and assuming rumors that may or may not be true, how about we just sit and wait until the end of Q4? If it hits and we don't have any news or an update, then it's time to start being cranky. But until then, I'm just not sure why a lot of people here, are saying things like this.

And I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just saying let's all calm down and wait. :)

Thor Simpson
12-18-2005, 05:12 PM
Based on the recent videos and other comments, I'm pretty sure we will not be seeing a Q4 release. There will likely be an announcement regarding this soon.

I would be pleasanlty surprised if release came right at the end of the year, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it was another 3 months out.

The only thing I am fairly certain of is that if they aren't going to release it this month, they will be making some sort of accouncement in the next couple of weeks. They won't just let it slide and hope nobody notices.

We'll probably have a full status update in the coming week would be my guess.

Pure speculation, but not uninformed.

operation
12-18-2005, 06:14 PM
hummm ....

Nothing against you Proton ( you do a really good job to keep us informed) but can you show us some "real" improvements ?

LW delivred at the end of the month... ? hummm
I think NT dev team have a lot of work to do with LW.
As Pavlov said, maybe Siggraph 2006 could be a good "deadline" to distribute LW9 or Q4 of 2006 if necessary. (I hope to never read an annoucement of LW9.5 or LW10 for Siggraph 2006 - for commercial reason).

ie: I deleted 8.5 the second day of use.

As some Lw users, I am waiting to see LW9, if LW9 doesn't convince me, I will not wait for updates or bundle offer to stay.

Of course, I am sure LW9 will bring many improvements,but not enough to make it a serious competitor ( the glory days are far).

I always ask myself if Worley didn't code Fprime, if users will still use LW ...


About to stay informed.... I understand (I would like too) but I think it's a bad idea.

Leave them work, be patient. If you already upgraded to LW9....next time, save your money until it will be available.
It's what I did, this way I will see if I upgrade or I buy an other package.


cheers!

TSpyrison
12-18-2005, 06:29 PM
I always ask myself if Worley didn't code Fprime, if users will still use LW ...


Yes. I would.

ACLOBO
12-18-2005, 06:36 PM
well there does seem to be a little doom and gloom here....

I guess I can empathize with some of the posts in that the demos that we have seen are not ground-breaking. I downloaded all six and shrugged. I am sure there is plenty more on the way, but usually the coolest improvements are shown in demo videos and I have to say that the content within the demo vids was very anti-climatic.

Let's see...... Um, changing colors for points, polys and edges - ok, cool but no biggie (I guess it is useful to know if you are in edge mode or poly).

Let's see..... options for creating nulls? Snore...... (Ok it is a time saver in that it saves ya a mouse click or two - maybe).

A different smoothing algorithm for objects with ngons? Ok, this is cool, but.... and a big BUT, it seems that it was something that was slapped on to accomodate getting around the way lightwave works.

Now, don't get me wrong, I love it when Proton demos stuff. Will does a great job and is very easy on the ears. :-) I am just a little concerned with the content on these NEW, not-so-amazing features of our chosen app. I am still not convinced I am going to order 9 before the end of the year. I am still unhappy with the BUGGY-AS-**** 8.5. Like others, I have been contemplating going back to 8.3 and waiting to see if 9 is all it is cracked up to be. I think it is best to wait and see just what your money will get ya.

I would continue to use my lightwave without Fprime, but not sure about buying any more upgrades. It has made me money without Fprime and is still quite capaable - but speed is king baby and I cannot wait until Fprime becomes the fully realized app it can be when lightwave opens up.

-Adrian

TSpyrison
12-18-2005, 07:22 PM
Has nobody read this??

http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/lw9featureprelim.php

Good grief people!

The new subdivision and surface Node Graph alone is enough to make me excited. Not to mention the advances the new programming team has made since they took over. I feel as if this is just the beginning of an all new Lightwave as we know it.

Some people aren’t going to be happy till it has that famous “Make cool stuff” button.

geothefaust
12-18-2005, 07:38 PM
Has nobody read this??

http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/lw9featureprelim.php

Good grief people!

The new subdivision and surface Node Graph alone is enough to make me excited. Not to mention the advances the new programming team has made since they took over. I feel as if this is just the beginning of an all new Lightwave as we know it.

Some people aren’t going to be happy till it has that famous “Make cool stuff” button.

I couldn't agree with you more. I'm very excited about those two features, throw in edges and edge weighting, and I'm a happy camper!

I think people are just getting a little uptight, which, really isn't cool. :tsktsk: Let's all just relax a bit, and wait for them to announce some news!

operation
12-18-2005, 09:58 PM
hummm ... me I went back to 8.3

And what about a " reel " UNDO ??? an Undo wich works with every tools. Actual undo looks like a 30 day demo ( good for Discovery edition).


There is so many things to do, to improve it ... I am experimented user with others packages and I don't know how much time it will take to Newtek to really make up to date LW core, render engine, interface, workflow, add features and of course : correct bugs.

I will continue to use Lw ,but just to fix some "small" effects. (if I need HV or nee to make previz with Fprime and a bit of modeling ...).

I don't know C4D' history (correct me if I am wrong, the devlpmt started in 1995 on Pc (1993 on amiga)) and I am really impressed by the level of the software today.

Most of us are old users (since Amiga - I believe...that's why I steel a bit fan , because I have good memories with this tool) but if I had to choose a tool today, I will certainly not look to LW for the features and certainly not after reading the feature list.

"Originally Posted by TSpyrison
Has nobody read this??
http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/lw9featureprelim.php
Good grief people!
"

And worse. after reading some user posts (in forum like Cgtalk, Spinquad,etc.. ), that will make stay away.

There are so much criticals and too much fans (extrem fan...so much extrem; then they are not objective anymore).
As a professional, I can't be competitive in some points with LW. Too much features missing. LW9 will not solve it.. I think Lw needs more years (2 or 3), to be able to come back on the ring.

Wickster
12-18-2005, 10:19 PM
Has nobody read this??

http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/lw9featureprelim.php

Good grief people!

The new subdivision and surface Node Graph alone is enough to make me excited. Not to mention the advances the new programming team has made since they took over. I feel as if this is just the beginning of an all new Lightwave as we know it.

Some people aren’t going to be happy till it has that famous “Make cool stuff” button.
Hehehe, fighting the good fight I see. :thumbsup:

I've been using LW without FPrime for awhile now and although I've been wanting that plugin for a long time, its not a deciding factor for me as to switch to another 3D app. I use Maya regularly at school for almost 2 years now yet I still prefer LW for my personal projects and outside projects.

I'm sure many people would want to see videos of LW9 with the Flowline liquid simulator engine, a full sasquatch implementation, FPrime at the press of F9 and AGEIA PhysX engine, but let's all come back down to earth here. The focus was LW's core and SDK. We're pretty lucky we get extra tools out of the whole deal. It would suck if all we're getting is "New LW9: Core rewrite!" and that's it. I could imagine how hard it must be to rewrite a core I never wrote in the first place, in a 1 year deadline plus implement all these tools that we, the users asked for. For a none programmer like me, that'll be like counting each pieces of a handfull of ashes...on a windy day.

TSpyrison
12-18-2005, 10:38 PM
There are so much criticals and too much fans (extrem fan...so much extrem; then they are not objective anymore).
As a professional, I can't be competitive in some points with LW. Too much features missing. LW9 will not solve it.. I think Lw needs more years (2 or 3), to be able to come back on the ring.


Ya know..

Just because I’m a fan of Lightwave.. (Or “fanboy” if you wish to use that word), Doesn’t mean I don’t have criticisms and things I would like to see implemented.

But it also doesn’t mean I’m going to not use and enjoy the program because there is a feature I would like to see that didn’t get implemented with this release. I appreciate what the new team has done, and am happy with the new features for 9.

I am curious though, what will Lightwave not do that you need it to? It seems that there are a lot of individuals and effects houses using it that are having pretty good success with Lightwave.

http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/projects.php

operation
12-19-2005, 02:03 AM
Of course...
You can find the same list on Maya, XSI, Cinema4D, electric image, houdini ... etc... there are no magic tool (perfect, without bug,etc.. )
It doesn't means that all the project is done with it ( sometime , it's 1 shot... sometime only the modeler was involved .. etc.)
It depends of your pipeline and of graphists available.


But most of the time, Lw is used for the modeler (now Modo and Silo are killing it) or for the render engine ( Multi platform (PC,Mac, Linux .. ) and untlimited node. (you can make a big renderfarm with 1 license (with Mentlaray you have to pay each license).
Don't forget there are internal developers in those "big compagny", they can code missing features for their graphists.


As I told you , I doesn't feet to my needs...sometime I feel limited, sometime it takes me days to do something when I can do it in 1 hours on an other package,etc...

I work as a professional, then I can't spend hours to do effects. I must be productive because I have a budget and a deadline.

Anyway... If you feel confortable with Lw , I respect it.

I know you can do great stuffs with LW (I did too :) ) but I don't want to tweak anymore.

I am not on Amiga anymore ;) and I am not a student to spend hours or days to find the magic workarounds.


Nt knows(I suppose) : Lw lost a lot of users this year and still loosing (you can find them on other forums . Take a look in the different section on CGtalk, they tell why they migrate ...


5 years ago, it was a perfect tool for me. Now I am a bit deseapointed because I have to admit : Lw is not shining as before.

cheers!

ps: Yes , I agree. The Nt dev team do their best to make it better, I am sure.
Nt is in this situation due to his history (you know: MOxO team). That's why The best thing, is to leave them working. giving them time, but until then I can't wait :(

Pavlov
12-19-2005, 02:09 AM
I always ask myself if Worley didn't code Fprime, if users will still use LW ...

Not me.

My advice for NT, anyway, is to play clean...
Dont want to sound negative, but o found these movies, like someone said, almost offensive. Beside edges (every app has them from years, so it was simply overdue and not something to be proud of) i hope its kinda a joke.

BTW: if it's a joke and you'll jump out witha revolutionary LW9 in a few weeks, well done guys ;)

If it's not a joke: after all this time, given what and where LW is by now, who could honestly think to show off some display configs, a simpler (non integrated) boolean tool, an so on, without being criticized ?
I'd prefer much to hear "we're still at work and we have nothing to show off" instead of this.
People wants to see something truly *grown up* otherwise will go.
So, IMHO no more movies like these - they dont close the hole but enlarge it -but clear statements instead


Paolo Zambrini

Wonderpup
12-19-2005, 03:02 AM
Hi geothefaust,

I hope you are right about 9 being on schedule, but I doubt it. If it were surely there would be a confirmed feature list posted by now. It's really this lack of information that causes the problem- specualtion rushes in to fill the vacuam.

If I seem a bit rude it may be because I have been through this before when 8 was released- I really thought it would be different this time around.

Maybe I'm misreading the situation, as you suggest, and all is on track. But if that's so, then why not clarify? and if it's not, why not clarify? It must be clear by now how things are.

As i said in my previous post, I have no problem with 9 being late- it's being left in the dark that I object to.

Celshader
12-19-2005, 08:22 AM
I got to hear Jay Roth speak in person at the Los Angeles LightWave User's Group meeting last November. He answered the questions of everyone who cared to ask them. My biggest concern was that I did NOT want to see LW9 released in December 2005 if it wasn't ready, since I still get the shakes from my memories of LW6. *shiver*

He assured me that they would not release LW9 if it truly was not ready, since the dev team's intention is that each new version of LW will be more stable than the last version.

I was glad to hear that. Since I use LightWave to earn my living, I prefer a good LW9 later over a bad LW9 now.

---

I also wanted to know if the preliminary feature list (http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/lw9featureprelim.php) was for 9.0, or if it was meant for the entire life cycle of the 9.x series. He said it's a 9.0 list. So, everything on that list will be in 9.0. If I remember correctly, the plan is to release a new, free 9.x point version every few months after 9.0 is released, similar to what happened with the 8.x cycle. I think he said that the 9.x cycle would run through the end of 2006, and after that NewTek would move onto LW10. By releasing a point release every few months instead of holding back a year and then releasing everything in one big chunk as 9.5, tools will get into the hands of LW users faster.

---

I'll admit, I'm excited about LightWave's future. Then again, I got to hear Jay Roth's LW9 discussion last month, and you guys did not.

richgrafx
12-19-2005, 08:53 AM
I'll admit, I'm excited about LightWave's future. Then again, I got to hear Jay Roth's LW9 discussion last month, and you guys did not.

i have to ask why we didn't get to hear Jay's comments

newtek must have an extra video toaster laying around that they could capture these types of events and post them for all their users to see

these forums are a great marketing tool when used correctly

Verlon
12-20-2005, 02:48 PM
Of COURSE they have an extra Video toaster lying around. I am sure they have an extra camera. They just couldn't get the cables untangled in time.

My father always said, "If you should ever find yourself falling out of an airplane, don't grab a parachute because there is a chance they will fail. Grab an electrical cord. Those ALWAYS get tangled up in something."

operation
12-20-2005, 05:59 PM
I think that Lw could come back under the spotlight with a good marketing.
(I have nothing against your work Chuck)

By a good marketing I mean:

More "user profile" ( I think there is a lot of project and a lot talented users in the shadows), maybe to find a way to make them in "front" page : Work close with them about features, about publishing their work, make a book like "professional techniques".. to show that Lw is involved.

I remember there was some Newtek magazines ...(during amiga periode).

Maybe some "tool" update:(not downloading a complete version) but if a tool is updated (ie: rla.p or boolean.p ), to be able to download the last corrected version of this tool. And time to time a packed version ( update that we know).
This way we can benefit of the last corrections : particles, shader, etc... and maybe get a better feedback about bugs.

Similar to an antivirus update, you can download :
Daily update - Week update or month update, until to get the major update.


An other idea is to show some "making-of" of projects ( in my mind, different of user profile), but a teaser (as we can find on DVD movies). To show how Lw is involved in a pipeline.


Late or not, we can't do nothing about that. but I think it will be interesting to see what could be done to help them ?


any ideas ?

cheers


ps: I remeber when I bought Maya, I have seen a show with a sample of Starwars scene to show "particles, dynamics, expression" (it was the real file project). May be Nt could make a deal with a compagny to have a "sample" (a scene file, with objects and texture) to show the features.
I got the same "commercial approch" with XSI ( I have seen some Titanic "work file" ).


ie: grab with autorisation a scene from (Xfiles, Hercule, Stargate, Harry potter, etc... ) of course there are a lot of compositing in thoses projects. but the steps could be:

1) Show LW scene. explain what they used, why and how ... and adantages.
2) Show some quicktime : wireframe, different render pass, final composite.


What do you think about that ?

coremi
12-20-2005, 06:27 PM
i asked if we can have a high resolution version of the videos shown at Siggraph 2005, really poor quality of the one's we have. They already have a deal to show that demoreel in the poor quality, and for sure they have the files with the best quality of it. Nothing happen, it was not possible to show something in good quality, and you are asking for real scenes and objects ? wish to be very wrong but it won't happen soon. I still can't understand why after Siggraph we had http://www.newtek.com/shows/siggraph/2005/2005.php and still no better version of the one's in the bottom, clips reel, edenfx, etc...

theo
12-20-2005, 07:35 PM
I think that Lw could come back under the spotlight with a good marketing.


My god...I swear I am going to be driven to rip up the entire Western hemisphere from the surface of the globe and fling it into the deepest recesses of the Virgo Cluster where it can be eaten alive by a meandering Black Hole.

What in the name of all of the Greek gods and goddesses does marketing have to do with whether one likes or dislikes Lightwave?

Are these people using marketing in LW as a plugin or something? Is it actually possible to use LW's marketing to model or animate better? Is it possible that I have somehow missed the vast digital creation possibilities of LW's marketing plan.

I could care less about ANY company's marketing plan unless I have stock in the company. And since I don't have stock in Newtek I care about their marketing almost as much as I care about whether I will die from being pulverized in an instant by a rogue asteroid.

If you have a fixation with this company's marketing plan then you really need to change careers and get your own advertising company.
:devil:

StereoMike
12-20-2005, 08:14 PM
No matter what people think, what marketing has to do with LW, there are certain economic rules that effect everything in the business.
And a fundametal rule is:

advertise or die.

That has nothing to do with the features of the product. In fact a weak product could outperform a stronger one, if the marketing works.
In extreme: Without advertising nobody knows the product, and thus, nobody takes it into consideration when it comes to buying. no matter how good it is.
building up a good image for the product will get you far, ppl identify themselves with it, are pride for making the right decision and the like. that has nothing to do with features. the effect isn't always obvious, subtle feeling in the individual could cascade into a big success on a greater scale.

KevinL
12-20-2005, 08:25 PM
Lightwave, like all software has issues. For me, Photoshop has had the least problems and disappointments over the course of my experience. Sound Forge next, after that a long list of hits and misses. Lightwave was very problematic for me in the "60's" ie version 6 releases. Before and after that I have had a pleasant and productive relationship.

I have ordered the LW 9 upgrade. Meanwhile this past year I have done 8 corporate productions demonstrating technologies and methodologies, I am currently working on a new one now. Did a simple set extension for an indie.
Lit and photographed (virtually) several architectural renderings for firms, Generated Virtual sets. Built graphic elements for AE and DFX+ (cool bundle with LW previous) motion graphics for bumper and interstials.
Two simplistic animatics for staging setups. And I am loving the VUE.

All of these for charge. Somewhere in there I have paid for this upgrade, several other upgrades and food.

I am looking forward to 9, but I haven't taken my eye off now. Lightwave is a tool, I have tons more to learn about it, and enjoy doing so but meanwhile it is a welcome addition to my workshop.

Have an incredible holiday (of your choosing... ) :)

wave on'
Kevin

Wickster
12-20-2005, 08:58 PM
...If I remember correctly, the plan is to release a new, free 9.x point version every few months after 9.0 is released, similar to what happened with the 8.x cycle. I think he said that the 9.x cycle would run through the end of 2006, and after that NewTek would move onto LW10. By releasing a point release every few months instead of holding back a year and then releasing everything in one big chunk as 9.5, tools will get into the hands of LW users faster.
Wouldn't it be faster if Lightwave had "Automatic" updates like other companies do like Adobe, Apple and Microsoft? I at startup or once in awhile when LW is up and running it would ping Newtek's servers for patches, fixes and updates. And maybe asks the user if they want to update now or later.

Ofcourse you can stop the updater altogether from asking you ever so often if the user is in the middle of a huge project timeline and install all updates once the project is done. That way Newtek don't have to announce anything unless either if its a "critical fix" and or a "major point release."

The updater could just say something like:
http://www.bmadigital.com/images/LWau.gif

o wow this turned out to be a feature request. :hey:

spirit_of_stars
12-20-2005, 09:05 PM
I don't think MODO need marketing to become popular... I really like LightWave and I still use it for personnal projects. But LW have a lack of features. No history or stack... All animation software need that... The OpenGL and the interface need big improvement. No Undo... OK... without Undo and Stack I have learn to think before doing a scene (and it's the first and better thing to do...) Thank you to LW for that... But in many case, Stack (History) and Undo fonctions help a lot when become time to experiment...

For some project LW is very good. I surprise a lot of people with fast and better result than they can do with Max or XSI... But after 5 years of work with 3DSMax, Maya and XSI. It's clear for me... LW show is age...

spirit_of_stars
12-20-2005, 09:10 PM
I like that Wickster. Good Idea but only if it could be disable.

theo
12-20-2005, 09:24 PM
No matter what people think, what marketing has to do with LW, there are certain economic rules that effect everything in the business.
And a fundametal rule is:

advertise or die.

That has nothing to do with the features of the product. In fact a weak product could outperform a stronger one, if the marketing works.
In extreme: Without advertising nobody knows the product, and thus, nobody takes it into consideration when it comes to buying. no matter how good it is.
building up a good image for the product will get you far, ppl identify themselves with it, are pride for making the right decision and the like. that has nothing to do with features. the effect isn't always obvious, subtle feeling in the individual could cascade into a big success on a greater scale.

If you are reasonably satisfied with LW then why give a second thought to Newtek's marketing objectives? If you are not satisfied with LW then don't use it...move on to something more suitable.

Since when has a company's marketing plan ever been the impetus driving a software purchase?

This whole environment is about 3D digital creation and yet we have marketing experts popping up all over the forums.

Maybe Newtek should start a temporary employment business on the side for all the marketing gurus.

Who really cares about "advertise or die"? The only people who need to be concerned about dying in such a manner are the Newtek marketing people who, I am sure, are not intent on arranging their own tragic demise by any stretch of the imagination and mine can stretch pretty far.

geothefaust
12-20-2005, 09:54 PM
Hey Wonderpup! I know you weren't being rude, so no worries. :) I am just a little bored with coming to the forums and finding that everyone seems to be negative, and it's starting to bug me a little. I completely agree with your concerns, I have them too. I would like to think that Newtek isn't the kind of company where they make delays at the last minute (because we ARE surely at the last minute here).

I too, don't mind a delay, as long as we know in advance. But really, either way, I'll keep using LW. I like it much more then I ever liked any of the other programs I've used (Save for XSI, but I haven't used it much).

GraphXs
12-20-2005, 10:23 PM
LW like all other 3D software has issues. LW as a package can do anything the creator wants and yes some things take a lot of trail and error and aren't as simple as the others guys. IMO I still feel it’s easy to get around with LW then with the others. I personally have less crashing with LW then with Max at work.

As far as history and stacks in the realm of modeling, I use LW layers as my steps if I'm experimenting. In Layout I just save another scene file if I want to try a different approach when I animate.

Also Max and some other software have some great features I would love to see in LW. I'm sure Newtek has plans for similar features for LW in the future. (New UV unwrapping tool like Modo/Max would be nice "edge selection is the step in the right direction") Newtek LW team has opened LW for new things I thought were impossible. I didn't think that LW could Sub-patch N-gones, or ever have Edge selection/weighting without a total re-write. I know those aren’t that significant but they achieved it without starting from scratch give us workflow enhancements. Also they claim to have some model editing tools in Layout. It seems to me that LW is on the right track and anyone who reads 9’s feature list can’t be blind to this.

Let’s get excited about the future of LW instead of complaining about it.

Go make something in LW! - Have fun make some art!

Great Job LW team! (Hoping for a Qrt4 release)


Merry Christmas everyone! :D

AbnRanger
12-20-2005, 10:26 PM
Look what I stumbled across...in a LW MARKETING ploy, of all things. LW's marketing team IS getting busy!

The one aspect of Autodesk's Combustion that made me choose it over After Effects was that is works "Hand in Glove" with Max to interactively paint on UV, bump, displacement maps, etc. in real time....like Maxon's Body Paint, or Deep Paint 3D... and now in Modo 201....so....

For those that want the same kind of interactive 3D painting capability in LW, you get that AND a robust Compositing package to boot...for almost half the price of Body Paint 3D and Deep Paint 3D.
It's worth a look-see. It is being advertising on www.CGFocus.com for $395 for LW owners...even though the following page states $495.
http://www.bauhaussoftware.com/store_LW_CG.php

http://www.bauhaussoftware.com/products_mirage_solutions_3d.php

operation
12-21-2005, 02:45 AM
If you have a fixation with this company's marketing plan then you really need to change careers and get your own advertising company.
:devil:


It's already done :hey:

By marketing I don't say that it will make the software better. But it's good to see how LW is used by compagnies, freelancers or home users.

To share the work,experiences ...etc..

Maybe you can calm down a bit and bring something positive, some usefull comments.



advertise or die


You did understand what I meant with my bad english ! thanks . :thumbsup:



If you are not satisfied with LW then don't use it

Can you explain me something ... you seems angry and disappointed by LW.
Why don't you go and use an other package ?
Why don't you follow your advice ?

Save your time, save your energy ... don't waste your time with LW.
Isn't it more intelligent behevior ?

as I said : Lw is not perfect.... but sometime it's the good tool for some effects.

Can you bring us ideas ? advices ? That will more helpfull than screaming and complaining. Don't forget, a bit of repect for the community.The forum is a place where to discuss, not to fight.

... but I really don't undertand why you don't switch to an other package (as you said ).

"marketing" and "developement" is not the same job.
Who knows, maybe Chuck is developer too ? ahahha ...
:ohmy:

cheers!

ps: please good comments. ok LW 9 is late .... but anyway: More time they will spend on this version, more better it will be.
It 's simple like that. Talking badly, will not make them work faster. :thumbsup:

Wonderpup
12-21-2005, 03:22 AM
Marketing, and a products image do impact on us in unexpected ways.

I find here in the UK that because Lightwave is not such a well known 'brand' as say Max or Maya, I am constantly having to defend myself against the suspicion that I am not using 'proper' software. ( No one ever complains about the results though!)

SaturnX
12-21-2005, 03:48 AM
Marketing, and a products image do impact on us in unexpected ways.

I find here in the UK that because Lightwave is not such a well known 'brand' as say Max or Maya, I am constantly having to defend myself against the suspicion that I am not using 'proper' software. ( No one ever complains about the results though!)

Yes. I have to say, i relate to this aswell.
especially with clients... but then, after they see the results... they are more than very happy with the work ;)
It feels good to rectify the ignorance of some people :D

i have to say though, newtek marketing needs work. i speak from a UK POV.
Newtek PR team... how about trying to get a nice full lightwave page in say.... 3Dworld?
cinema4D have had a full ad page for ages now... and that bugs the h*ll out of me. Max and xsi, i can understand... but cinema4d ?

I think Lightwave needs more PR. At least, for example, in the mainstream 3D magazines that are available in the UK.
There are the usual tutorials, galleries, letters, the odd preview/reviews...
But it feels like, there is little force fed into the magazines from the newtek PR dept. i dunno, maybe i'm wrong, but i havent seen a good lightwave advertisment for ages... next to nothing promoting lightwave3d.

the people using lightwave, and the various artists working behind the scenes on these magazines help promoting lw... through tuts etc... seems to be the most PR lw gets these days.
Having said that, i'm refering mainly to the likes of 3dworld and digit.
great mags.


... long live the wave. :lwicon:

StereoMike
12-21-2005, 03:56 AM
If you are reasonably satisfied with LW then why give a second thought to Newtek's marketing objectives? If you are not satisfied with LW then don't use it...move on to something more suitable.

Since when has a company's marketing plan ever been the impetus driving a software purchase?

This whole environment is about 3D digital creation and yet we have marketing experts popping up all over the forums.

Maybe Newtek should start a temporary employment business on the side for all the marketing gurus.

Who really cares about "advertise or die"? The only people who need to be concerned about dying in such a manner are the Newtek marketing people who, I am sure, are not intent on arranging their own tragic demise by any stretch of the imagination and mine can stretch pretty far.

@theo


Don't see the point in shutting the eyes...
I said it in my previous post, and I repeat: I'm not talking about features, if I like LW or if it has a good workflow or easy icons. I like LW and, FYI I already preordered 9 long ago (8 was the same).
That has nothing to do with the marketing approach of NT (or the lack of).
You're assuming I'm just another wannabe marketing expert. What makes you think, I don't have a clue? In fact I studied these things once.
If you're living in the US, then it might be different, but if not:
Do yourself a favor and ask your local distributor for NT's marketing. He will get a nervous breakdown, cause his business depends on the tools (ads, discount offers and the like) NT gives to him.
I asked my distributor, so don't assume, I don't know what I write.

And please explain, why you think marketing is worth nothing....
cause you know what, it's all about marketing.
It's very shortsighted to limit the discussion on plain lw features, when the story is about reputation, image and word of mouth...

loki74
12-21-2005, 04:30 AM
For those that want the same kind of interactive 3D painting capability in LW, you get that AND a robust Compositing package to boot...for almost half the price of Body Paint 3D and Deep Paint 3D.
It's worth a look-see. It is being advertising on www.CGFocus.com for $395 for LW owners...even though the following page states $495.
http://www.bauhaussoftware.com/store_LW_CG.php

http://www.bauhaussoftware.com/products_mirage_solutions_3d.php

Well I downloaded the free trial of Mirage... gotta say, as far as keying goes, I'm not terribly impressed... also, the interface is rather, well, unfriendly to Mac users. They've managed to get a MDI parent window thing happening, agh! What I did like about the UI however was its visual similarity to LW and the fact that they did take the effort to move the close, min, and max buttons to the left-hand side of the titlebar.

I didn't really check out what it could do as far as 3D paint, but for compositing, I say stick with the usual programs--Shake, Fusion, etc. (Damm, why the hel1 do they have to be soo expensive??)

But i guess thats all off topic; I am glad to see software deals for LW users! The Vue 5 deal is part of what made me buy LW. And contrary to the FUD propogated by some on this forum, I am very glad--that was $800 well spent!

AbnRanger
12-21-2005, 05:13 AM
From the tutorial vids that I peeked at, You have a LW viewer that you paint in 2D while watching the RT feedback in your LW Modeler viewport. That's the same method with Combustion and Max. You're right, in that it's not quite as interactive as Body Paint, Deep Paint 3D, or Modo 201, where you are painting directly on the model itself ...but as you are painting in the LW viewer, you still can simultaneously observe how it looks and affects your 3D model (in LW Modeler) in real time. You have all the LW standard surface channels like color, specularity, reflection, bump,etc. to work with...and can interactively paint displacements as well.
On another note; a friend of mine swore that Combustion 4's new Diamond Keyer (inherited from Flint and Flame) was weak and unimpressive...until he realized the problem wasn't the software...it was the poor lighting he used in his green screen shots.
Not saying that's the case with you Loki, but sometimes it takes getting used to a tool before you can make a really accurate assessment.
If I didn't already have Combustion, I would be really tempted to jump on this deal...much like I was with the LW/Vue offer.
I can see some honest efforts on NT's part to improve their marketing...so criticism in this regard is rather undeserved.

theo
12-21-2005, 06:10 AM
@theo

Don't see the point in shutting the eyes...

Listen Mike....I guess the difference between your point and mine is that I don't really care about my local distributor (beyond the human aspect that is) and his marketing problems with Newtek.

Newtek's marketing does not impact me as I really don't give a chipmunk's chuckle about what ANYBODY thinks about what I use to create digital content.

If you use some clever freeware or shareware open-source code (as I have done) to do the job then nobody really needs to know this and marketing has zero bearing here as well.


Can you explain me something ... you seems angry and disappointed by LW.
Why don't you go and use an other package ?
Why don't you follow your advice ?

Nope....like the soft. I just find it absurd when you guys start picking at Newtek's marketing as I still have yet to understand if you are already using LW how marketing LW is going to somehow enrich your experience. You have the soft- make things!

If you somehow just discovered LW after rigorous mackete-hacking a trail miles long through the steamy Amazon undergrowth while battling fer-de-lances and jaguars then I would take your point quite well. Since you all seemed to have discovered LW without a lot of fuss then I would recommend that you leave the marketing battle to the distibutors and Newtek.

StereoMike
12-21-2005, 06:33 AM
the next statement really hurts me, cause I'm quite a fanboy of LW, but probably you'll get the connection to marketing:

Assumed, you don't only think of yourself (I know, that surpasses the possibilities of some people), can you imagine, that it will get harder to get a job for those people who specialized on LW, if the image and the demand for it decreases? If it disappears from pipelines, forcing people to learn other tools?

I hope you get the picture now.

I look forward to 9 and I'm convinced, that it will bring back some honour and it will stop most of the whining. I can do my job with it now, and it will get even better with 9 (and some great plugs that will come). Great people work on it, I don't doubt the capabilities. I just want to see better marketing (or any).


Mike

toma
12-21-2005, 06:57 AM
The thing is that many newcomers will go maya because alias succeed in making the maya brand popular. it doesn't matter how good maya will be for them, it is just the only name they know…

of course you and I don't give a **** but I see some consequences :

- it becomes harder and harder to find LWers
- NT gets fewer income and have to develop LW on budget

toma

Wonderpup
12-21-2005, 08:02 AM
Hi theo,

If you want to see the kind of damage poor marketing can do take a look at the lightwave 9 demo thread on CGtalks news section.

The problem is we live now, more than ever, in a 'brand' conscious age, and 3D software is, i would say, highly vulnrable to damage of this sort, since it's primary source of new customers are young males, who are, by and large, very 'image conscious'.

If a given software did aquire a very negative image with this group, it would eventualy impact on the users, as others have pointed out, as revenues and user base declined.

Lightwaves relative obscurity in UK has real consequeces for me, both in terms of employment opportunitys and even my credibility as a 3D artist, as I've already pointed out, so although it may seem remote from what we do, it is important and I think a legitimate concern.

Wickster
12-21-2005, 10:32 AM
I remember quite frankly when Maya dropped their price to $1999, they advertised heavily on TechTV (before the G4 takeover). I think this was in response to the LW price drop back them to $1500. I'm sure it might have grabbed a couple of new users then.

I'd like to see LW on TV, if it helps getting us more friends here (new users) and put LW back on top...Though I know marketing is only part of the solution, but by getting much funding from sales then it'll help the rest of what's needed to make LW sell.

jeremyhardin
12-21-2005, 10:39 AM
I got to hear Jay Roth speak in person at the Los Angeles LightWave User's Group meeting last November. He answered the questions of everyone who cared to ask them. My biggest concern was that I did NOT want to see LW9 released in December 2005 if it wasn't ready, since I still get the shakes from my memories of LW6. *shiver*

He assured me that they would not release LW9 if it truly was not ready, since the dev team's intention is that each new version of LW will be more stable than the last version.

I was glad to hear that. Since I use LightWave to earn my living, I prefer a good LW9 later over a bad LW9 now.

---

I also wanted to know if the preliminary feature list (http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/lw9featureprelim.php) was for 9.0, or if it was meant for the entire life cycle of the 9.x series. He said it's a 9.0 list. So, everything on that list will be in 9.0. If I remember correctly, the plan is to release a new, free 9.x point version every few months after 9.0 is released, similar to what happened with the 8.x cycle. I think he said that the 9.x cycle would run through the end of 2006, and after that NewTek would move onto LW10. By releasing a point release every few months instead of holding back a year and then releasing everything in one big chunk as 9.5, tools will get into the hands of LW users faster.

---

I'll admit, I'm excited about LightWave's future. Then again, I got to hear Jay Roth's LW9 discussion last month, and you guys did not.


i enjoyed it as well. rather encouraging.

Chuck
12-21-2005, 11:53 AM
Status update is now posted:

LightWave v9 Status Update from Jay Roth, 12/21/05 (http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43978)

Steve McRae
12-21-2005, 12:12 PM
Is the open beta subject to NDA's?

I am waiting for user opinion's / reviews before I jump in.

jrm3d
12-21-2005, 03:25 PM
Status update is now posted:

thanks Chuck, i look forward to great things from Newtek in 2006

Merry Christmas Newtek

richgrafx
12-21-2005, 03:36 PM
thank you Chuck, Jay, Proton and the rest of the :newtek: team

i hope everyone has a happy holiday

Chuck
12-21-2005, 07:10 PM
Is the open beta subject to NDA's?

Yes, that is the case.

Thor Simpson
12-21-2005, 10:07 PM
I would definately be interested in the 9.0 beta. I would probably wait to see how stable it is before using it in production, but if it's fairly far along as I think it is, it would be great to jump right in and help out in the process.

colkai
12-22-2005, 02:30 AM
I would definately be interested in the 9.0 beta. I would probably wait to see how stable it is before using it in production, but if it's fairly far along as I think it is, it would be great to jump right in and help out in the process.
Likewise.
Being a coder myself, I kinda enjoy this sort of thing, yeah, I know, Geeky ain't I? :p

Chuck
12-22-2005, 09:11 AM
Thanks for the heads up on Mirage! Speaking as someone who has done high-tech marketing for about 15 years now, I'm not so sure I'd give NT very high marks . . . they're definitely trying, but they're also flubbing a lot of basics. (If I give any specifics, I might be banned, so I really can't post more.)

Useful specifics, such as places we should advertise, messages we should consider, promotional approaches or activities we should consider, etc., are most certainly welcome and will not get anyone banned. Posts that disparage the character or competence of NewTek or its staff would not be acceptable, and as mentioned in the moderation notice at the top of each forum, moderation policies and activities are not subject to public discussion, and we have in the past chosen to ban folks who make frequent digs on the topic of moderation or directed at specific moderators.

It's also the case that if you feel the subject you want to address is sensitive, we have private messaging on the forum and we have email contact available. The fact is that there is a way for specifically any issue you wish to address to be heard.

Intuition
12-22-2005, 12:25 PM
The updater could just say something like:
http://www.bmadigital.com/images/LWau.gif

o wow this turned out to be a feature request. :hey:

OMG, Wickster! That is like a list of all the things I want in Lw9!!!

Except I also want LW9 64bit. :D

StereoMike
12-22-2005, 11:58 PM
at least you will get your game engine in 2006 (3rd party)