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WilliamVaughan
12-16-2005, 06:32 PM
LW9 Demo Video-Modeler: Edges
Size: 11 MB
Length: 1 min 22 sec

Right Click and Save Target to Download (ftp://ftp.newtek.com/pub/LightWave/LW9/Edges.mov)

Carm3D
12-16-2005, 10:46 PM
Please show edge weighting in action as a sequel to this video!

WilliamVaughan
12-17-2005, 10:32 AM
Will do...have a long list :)

Ztreem
12-17-2005, 03:11 PM
Nice to see edges in LW everybody always copmplain about not having edges, but I don't really see the difference between edges and selecting the points that builds the edge? Ok, it's faster to select, but otherwise?? Can anyone explain?

KillMe
12-17-2005, 03:26 PM
try beveling 3 sides on the top of a cube with points only

Chris S. (Fez)
12-17-2005, 03:51 PM
I think in terms of manipulating and multiplying (ie. beveling, extending etc.) edges are simply more intuitive and visually more pleasing.

I think it is awesome that we can control the colors and I really like how Proton's warm-cool setup serves as visual key to what element mode he is working in.

CB_3D
12-17-2005, 07:32 PM
Please show edge weighting in action as a sequel to this video!


QFA! Letīs see some sharp edges ,-)

Carm3D
12-17-2005, 09:05 PM
What's QFA mean?

Edit: Never mind.. I just figured it out. :D Tee hee!

hrgiger
12-17-2005, 09:26 PM
Nice to see edges in LW everybody always copmplain about not having edges, but I don't really see the difference between edges and selecting the points that builds the edge? Ok, it's faster to select, but otherwise?? Can anyone explain?

Well, don't forget too that we will now be able to weight edges too which is a world apart from subpatch weighting that we now have in Lightwave.

jin choung
12-18-2005, 03:21 AM
main advantages:

0. industry standard. this is a non-negligible point. what package these days does not allow the selection, manipulation and operation on edges?

1. why not? the same argument can be made that we shouldn't rightly have POLY selection either - what are polys after all but simply a collection of verts. however true that may be, when it comes to performing operations and selecting, sometimes the ability to select polys and edges gets rid of AMBIGUITY of what exactly you mean to do. that's huge.

1b. operator overloading - programming speak but it means the effect of an operation differs depending on the target of your operation. so ideally, beveling a poly, an edge and a vert would all result in different forms.

sadly, i get the feeling that such smart operator overloading will not happen with lw. that is, all of our tools will NOT be rewritten to overload like this. heck, we don't have it now... we can't bevel a vert, even though it is definitely conceivable to do so (and can be done in other apps like max, maya). instead, we'll get different tools just to work on edges... sigh.... and in case your wondering, i get the feeling that this is because our toolset is specifically designed to create quad meshes if at all possible. this is not a bad legacy, especially for a subd modeler but it does have drawbacks as well.

2. in terms of gouraud shading, you can select those edges and tag those edges to render as sharp or smooth. right now, lw makes the edge softness of polys a property of the surface but it does not properly belong there. in max, they have smoothing groups but that's kinda backwards too. maya's ability to simply grab edges and specifically tag them soft or hard is best way imo.

as stated previously, if you just select a bunch of verts, there is definite opportunity for ambiguity such that lw doesn't know what exactly it is that you want.

3. edge sharpening on subdivision surfaces. as is, vert sharpening is of tremendously limited value because you cannot sharpen directionally along edges. since EVERY EDGE coming into a vert is sharpened, you can't make wrinkles or seams.

you can make some nifty semi roundy boxes though....

Ztreem
12-18-2005, 03:48 AM
thanks guys! Now I think I see the advantages of edges, I would really like to see some edge weighting.

toonafish
12-18-2005, 03:49 AM
we can't bevel a vert,


try Rounder, it will bevel vertices.

jin choung
12-18-2005, 04:00 AM
i know,

but my point was about operator overloading. it would be an elegant solution if bevel worked on a poly, an edge and a vert... dontcha think?

same goes for all operations. if it's possible to do something that makes sense on a given selection, it should.

jin

Wade
12-18-2005, 09:32 AM
well said.

Lewis
12-18-2005, 11:10 AM
main advantages:

2. in terms of gouraud shading, you can select those edges and tag those edges to render as sharp or smooth. right now, lw makes the edge softness of polys a property of the surface but it does not properly belong there. in max, they have smoothing groups but that's kinda backwards too. maya's ability to simply grab edges and specifically tag them soft or hard is best way imo.


Hi Jin !

I agree wiht your comments but one question about this MAYA edges. If they are modified as HARD or SOFT with no percentage control that doesn't sound like best solution to me, or there is some kind of control in new MAYA ? Is there any control like with wheights in LW (percentage 0-100%). Percentage sounds much better to me than soft/hard 'coz different things have different edges so just soft/hard wouldn't suffice IMHO.

cheers

Earl
12-18-2005, 11:14 AM
Hi Jin !

I agree wiht your comments but one question about this MAYA edges. If they are modified as HARD or SOFT with no percentage control that doesn't sound like best solution to me, or there is some kind of control in new MAYA ? Is there any control like with wheights in LW (percentage 0-100%). Percentage sounds much better to me than soft/hard 'coz different things have different edges so just soft/hard wouldn't suffice IMHO.

cheers
I think he's referring to the "Smoothing" option we have in the Surface preview. For that type of smoothing it's either on or off. In LightWave it's determined by the angle (used as a threshold to decide if it will be smoothed or not smoothed). I agree with Jin that having the option on a per edge basis would be simple and elegant. Sort of like a vertex map, only this would be an edge map dictating soft/hard edges.

Lewis
12-18-2005, 11:25 AM
Hi Earl !

Even then i think it's not good to have just hard/soft or is it ? Why not having more control by percentage of hardnes or softnes ;). Maybe and Envelope would be best way so it can be animated also ;).

jin choung
12-18-2005, 04:24 PM
hiya lewis,

actually there's a slight misunderstanding here.

in lw right now, you can make a surface (material in other apps) smooth or not smooth.

if you make your sphere NOT smooth, you will see polygonal facets... that is, you will see the quads and triangle edges.

in lw right now, you can set a THRESHOLD at which an edge will go from smooth to sharp. if you say 40degrees, if two polygons meet at 41degrees, that edge will render as sharp.

BUT (and here is the key point)

there are NO DEGREES OF SMOOTHNESS OR SHARPNESS. an edge either is sharp or is smooth.

0 or 1.

that's it.
--------------------------------------
it sounds like you're talking about subdivision edge weighting and for that, i completely agree that there should be degrees of sharpening from 0 to 1 in floating point values.

in maya, there are only 3 discrete smoothing choices (crease, smooth, semismooth).... and that seems unnecessarily lame.

----------------------------------------

earl,

EXACTLY! i think EDGE MAPS would be the way to go for both controlling gouraud smoothing AND subdivision smoothing.... not sure how they're going about it now but i always thought edge maps (and perhaps even poly maps) to be a logical next step.

Lewis
12-18-2005, 05:55 PM
Now it's more clear , I was talking about SubDs edges and that's why it was wierd to me just to have on/off :).

And yes it would be better to have more options than in Maya with only 3 choices ;).

Atleast we GOT THEM Finally (edges) ;).

Emmanuel
12-20-2005, 01:54 PM
Ha !!!
Here's an idea for a feature I am sure no one at NT has thought of: can we convert edges to skelegons ?
Gotcha NewTek !!!

:D

toonafish
12-20-2005, 02:36 PM
i know,

but my point was about operator overloading. it would be an elegant solution if bevel worked on a poly, an edge and a vert... dontcha think?

same goes for all operations. if it's possible to do something that makes sense on a given selection, it should.

jin


so true, that's one of the things I like about modo :-)

Chris S. (Fez)
12-20-2005, 03:42 PM
so true, that's one of the things I like about modo :-)

Check this thread out:

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38153

If you have other ideas about how to consolidate tools, please contribute.

SplineGod
12-20-2005, 04:14 PM
Ha !!!
Here's an idea for a feature I am sure no one at NT has thought of: can we convert edges to skelegons ?
Gotcha NewTek !!!

:D

You can already do that now. You can even convert splines to skelegons. :)