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WilliamVaughan
12-16-2005, 07:24 PM
LW9 Demo Video- Modeler: Speed Booleans
Size: 8.3 MB
Length: 1 min 6 sec

Right Click and Save Target to Download (ftp://ftp.newtek.com/pub/LightWave/LW9/speedboolean.mov)

badllarma
12-17-2005, 03:04 AM
Really like this one saves alot of time layer management that' s for sure :)

KillMe
12-17-2005, 04:20 AM
if only you could select the object you want the operation performed on too - but i guess can always hide the bits you dont want it to work on

Yog
12-17-2005, 05:42 AM
Just asking, is this another 3rd party inclussion ?

I only ask because of the way it has been implemented, i.e. snappy new name, seperate button and interface like previous 3rd party inclussions. Rather than the more logical, efficient and streamlined way of incorporating it into a single interface with the old boolean function.

spigolo
12-17-2005, 08:08 AM
I agree at all, i HOPE we will not get a lot of new buttons with maybe nice features but no integrated, I should say that I hoped a lot from the "modeler workflow improvement" that Newtek promised.
I'm afraid to have again a hundred of Move tools rather than one that works with edge, snap, pivot...

WilliamVaughan
12-17-2005, 11:31 AM
Not a 3rd party tool and I agree with not wanting a bunch of new buttons but....I can imagine that if someone likes the work flow of the old Boolean set up that they would be quite upset if it was missing...hence the option.

Let me explain why the old way might be to someones liking....

>You get to keep the "cutter" object after the operation

>You dont have to select the polys of the "cutter" object...jkust the layer

and I'm sure there are more....

I love the new speed Booleans and will use them no doubt....but there are times I will use th eold way...to save my cutter and in some cases just to stay organized. But everyone has a different workflow and NewTek is trying to keep that in mind.

kfiram
12-17-2005, 11:54 AM
It's not a question of weather the old tool was better or not. It's that there's no need to have those tools separated. There should be ONE boolean tool that has an option of working with the BG layer or with the current layer.

It's a question of mentality: do you add more and more tools and end up with a bloated interface, or do you enhance the current ones and merge tools together, to simplify the modeling process.

Yog
12-17-2005, 12:47 PM
I don't really see it as interfering with the way the old function works. Other apps handle it quite well, you have the basic interface, then if you want the extra/different functions you click the option box or expand the tab to show the extra/different options.

This way we have two sets of keyboad shoutcuts to memorise and/or two sets of buttons to take up space on the menus. I just don't see the need for the duplication :stumped:

SplineGod
12-18-2005, 02:27 AM
It's not a question of weather the old tool was better or not. It's that there's no need to have those tools separated. There should be ONE boolean tool that has an option of working with the BG layer or with the current layer.

It's a question of mentality: do you add more and more tools and end up with a bloated interface, or do you enhance the current ones and merge tools together, to simplify the modeling process.

I agree with this actually. It makes sense to do booleans from a single interface that has several built in options. Since you have a panel that pops up to ask what kind of boolean why not have a switch for same or separate layer booleans? Id like to see the same sort of consolidation on other tools as well.
We have bandsaw, bandsaw pro, Cut, etc which all essentially do the same thing. Put them in a single interface. The same for bevel, smoothshift, supershift, multishift etc. :)

Pavlov
12-18-2005, 05:14 AM
I agree with this actually. It makes sense to do booleans from a single interface that has several built in options. Since you have a panel that pops up to ask what kind of boolean why not have a switch for same or separate layer booleans? Id like to see the same sort of consolidation on other tools as well.
We have bandsaw, bandsaw pro, Cut, etc which all essentially do the same thing. Put them in a single interface. The same for bevel, smoothshift, supershift, multishift etc. :)

totally agree here.
"toolset consolidation" means just this; instead of having each developer make its own version of a tool, please allow each developer to ehnance previous one.
so we have TONS of measurement-resize tools... one can keep BG in account, the other is realtime, but there's another which can resize non-selected too.... and so on.
Move ? Well, Normal move, rove, move, Pictrix's move and LW Cad's move, and so on.
Rotate ? Rotate, Pictrix's and LWCad's ones, Normal rotate, V-roll, and so on...
Come on guys... no tool in 2005 can be so "disintegrated", hope 9 will not be a "plugin kermesse" like prevoius releases. Otherwise, what does "consolidation" means ?
IE it would be cool if we had just one move, one rotate, one resize tool, each one with its own SDK to allow for development. Each developer could make its TAB in tool's option panel, instead of a new button.
BTW it's only an example, but hope we can get rid of poor "patchy" feeling in new releases.
Integration, merging, cooperative toolset... please ;)

Paolo Zambrini

papou
12-18-2005, 06:05 AM
i agree too but do not think that users are always dissatisfied, we are simply waiting for that:

"... Modeler workflows have been improved and tool functions that were spread across several tools are now consolidated into just a few..."

Then there is a new boolean script... with a different UI too... Look like david Ikeda is making his tools with new UI (new button size, no OK/Cancel, keyboard shorcut in front of button name)... so it look not integrated... and it's less consolidated than the free "Booldozer" script...

Pavlov
12-18-2005, 06:06 AM
A question: where does "volume" selection mode has gone ?
Hope it's just not revealed in interface, i find it useful.
While we're here (ill' repost this in feat req list), LW lacks a poligonal lazo selection tool.
Freehand lazo is awesome, but not enough when you're at precise modeling and you need to pass through dense point clouds.

Paolo Zambrini

Auger
12-18-2005, 10:56 AM
A question: where does "volume" selection mode has gone ?
Hope it's just not revealed in interface, i find it useful.

Paolo Zambrini

I believe that since LW8 Volume has not been on the UI. You have to add it. It's still available in the program, AFAIK.


Jon

WilliamVaughan
12-18-2005, 11:44 AM
Actually...Since 8.0 the Volume selection tool has been located in the View Tab under the Selection group...but you are free to move it to any location you like.

coremi
12-18-2005, 03:21 PM
is the problem with "internal buffer to small" solved ? i get this a lot with complex objects, mostly with text when boolean. I hope this new boolean will not have this problem, tired of saving the object, shut down modeler, start again, do the first operation the boolean and the after 10 min if i need another complex boolean, close the modeler etc.....

harlan
12-19-2005, 01:33 AM
Id like to see the same sort of consolidation on other tools as well.


"Here here" my Deitous friend, I completely agree!!!

I'm all for maintaining parity with older workflow methods; but clean it all up a little. The "Additional" pull-down tab thingy in modeler is a friggin nightmare to navigate with the abundance of redundant tools floating around in it as it is. :)


No bloatware please. :)


9's looking great... keep it up

jb_gfx
12-19-2005, 07:30 AM
Not bad but I don't understand why do we need another button and another name for this function. I think it would have been better to simply have the old good boolean function improved. Why not make it contextual?

- If two layer layers are selected when you call the boolean function it would behave just like the classic boolean fucntion.

- If there is only one layer with a selected object then switch to the new 1 layer mode.

More logic, less bloat. Better workflow enhancement!

And while you are at it give this function some really new improvement like the possibility to merge points automaticly, realtime preview (with maybe a checkbox to deactivate it), switch to drill, solide drill, boolean mode, etc...

Like Tais mentinoned it there is a free script (Booldozer) that do more than this "new" SpeedBoolean function and that is avaible for free since sometimes now.

I hope someone from Newtek will comment this...

Pavlov
12-19-2005, 07:50 AM
Like Tais mentinoned it there is a free script (Booldozer) that do more than this "new" SpeedBoolean function and that is avaible for free since sometimes now.
I hope someone from Newtek will comment this...

I assume the movie does not tell all about new boolean tools.
Could someone (Proton?) expand on:
- interactivity
- animation option (since now we're supposed to get modeling in Layout)
- SDS compatibility

and so on ?

You choose these "features" as anticipation so consider my speculation as based on these only.
Anyway, honestly.. both LWCad developer or Pictrix alone have done a way better, deeper job on modeler than NT in the last 2 years.
Lot of LW pro's i know are getting a bit nervous, i hope we hear a clarification from an official voice to understand what's going on.
I'd be curious about eventual release procastination and the number of programmers involved in LW development right now.

Paolo Zambrini

ibanezhead
12-19-2005, 08:01 AM
Cool feature, but as others have mentioned, it really reveals the continued disorginized workflow LW is plagued by. Why not work on a new interface for LW, something with consolidated tools, and menus? Not just another tool that has it's own weird little window that pops up that looks like it was made a decade ago. Newtek could probably take all of LW's current functionality and re-orginize it into some coherent modern workflow and it would seem like a totally new program. I would pay for that...

pixym
12-19-2005, 08:07 AM
Proton,

Please add "LW9_" Preffix to movie names.

Thanks

pixym
12-19-2005, 08:21 AM
... Lot of LW pro's i know are getting a bit nervous, i hope we hear a clarification from an official voice to understand what's going on.
...

Paolo Zambrini

Yes, I am getting very nervous, and after these two first (Null and Speed Boulean) videos I am very very disapointed!!!

trick
12-20-2005, 05:14 PM
...I am getting very nervous...

Why ? At the moment I am as proficient in some competing packages as I was with LW7.5. The only reason I keep using LW7.5 for some things is the faster and easier setup of huge scenes. I tried switching to [8] but there are a lot of things that made this switch to hard. If LW9 is not overwhelming, according to user reports, I just don't use it. I thought you did the same ? I really hope these videos are just to put competitors on the wrong foot, because I can do all these things with their tools since I could walk on my own feet :D I will always have a weakness for LW, but I will not doubt for a second to use something else that keeps me more healthy ;)

SplineGod
12-20-2005, 05:39 PM
Yes, I am getting very nervous, and after these two first (Null and Speed Boulean) videos I am very very disapointed!!!

Jay Roth was the guest speaker last month at the Los Angeles User Group. He spent most of that time fielding questions about LW9 and we also got to see SOME of the new stuff going into it as well.
One thing he mentioned was alot of the under the hood changes. He also talked about where theyre headed and so on. Everyone was pretty excited. Theres been a lot of important core changes going on that will change things alot.

What we saw demoed at the time was pretty impressive. I dont think anyone was disappointed. :)

KillMe
12-20-2005, 06:06 PM
i take it your not free to expand a little and tell us what they told and showed you?

Pavlov
12-20-2005, 06:13 PM
What we saw demoed at the time was pretty impressive. I dont think anyone was disappointed. :)

I believe you Larry, but it's a shame that only people at demo knows these things.
It's not about "free whining" but more about a real need to stay tuned on development for planning.
I'm not in a hurry for 9, just think some more info are over-needed.
No "early" releases but a working, deeply revamped and finally up-to-date one, even if this means a 6 months delay.

Paolo Zambrini

SplineGod
12-20-2005, 06:45 PM
i take it your not free to expand a little and tell us what they told and showed you?

Im not sure exactly. It was a public meeting most everyone was quite happy and surprised at just how candid he was. He didnt gloss over anything at all. There was a lot of questions and people seemed quite happy with his candor and answers.

What we saw IMO was pretty overwhelming. JUST seeing nodal, ACT, Relativity, CC SDS and detail about whats been changed in the renderer and other under the the hood stuff gave me a headache (in a good way). JUST Nodal, ACT and Relativity are incredibly deep in their own. Theres just no way that I can see Newtek posting 2 minute demo movies that would in any way get across just how deep and powerful they are. There was no time to see everything either. When you add in all the other changes in tools and workflow its HUGE upgrade.

We all know what modeler can do for example but think about how it will affect workflow to have those tools in layout.

The big thing I came away from the meeting with was two things:
INTEGRATION and no more just throwing things in. All of the things he talked about or mentioned were being integrated into the core. The implications from that are also huge and how do you demo that in a 2 minute movie?
The development team from what Ive been told is the largest Newtek has ever had on Lightwave. I cant imagine how William at this point could do more then post the simple movies he has. Theres just so much and its all so deep. I use LW daily to earn a living. I feel I know it very very well. Ive also been involved with LW training for years and I would also have a hard time trying to pick the most exciting things and post videos up that would satisfy everyone.

Again compare just what Ive mentioned to the full list of changes that Newtek has posted. Its a large list and we saw just a small part of them. The small parts we saw by themselves were extremely deep. I cant imagine what it will be like to have all the features and changes coming out with 9.0 let alone what is planned for point releases. Im chomping at the bit like everyone else to get my hands on this :)

Chris S. (Fez)
12-20-2005, 07:02 PM
I can't wait to try Nodal in 9. For surfacing/texturing, I think the Nodal/Fprime/G2 triple team is going to put Lightwave back on top where she belongs.

Larry, what is ACT short for?

SplineGod
12-20-2005, 07:59 PM
ACT - Advanced Camera Tools. From what I remember (and its hard to remember it all) you can make anything be a camera such as an object, bone etc. You can also create pretty much any type of lens you want using geometry and UV maps....again information overload for me because it apparently does much more then that. Once you see a tool or hear it explained your brain starts to run thru the possibilities and oh what possibilities there are coming! :P

Chris S. (Fez)
12-20-2005, 08:14 PM
Sounds awesome! Thanks.

KillMe
12-20-2005, 10:48 PM
ah now your talking - perhaps they could show a quick example of a feature then take some time to write down a quick explanation of the tool and its capablitites

as your obvious enthisiasm and afew paragraphs of text has impressed me more than the videos

SplineGod
12-21-2005, 04:18 AM
Im sure theyll get around to doing something along those lines.
Alot of others were pretty enthused to after getting a taste of whats coming. Its all good :)

colkai
12-21-2005, 04:35 AM
IJUST seeing nodal, ACT, Relativity, CC SDS
But aren't these all just 3rd party plugins bought in by Newtek?

Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping LW9 will be "something else" as they say, but the naysayers are correct when they say a lot of the "new" tools are actually what Tuff Little Unit had in production as 'Vokda' etc.. plus we all know about Prems Relativity.

I guess the thing is, for those who are at the "cutting edge" of plugin power, do you think that the update is a worthy one even if you exclude these plugins?

Me personally, I've already paid for my upgrade, but I think it only fair to provide some clarity for those that will inevitably seek to undermine the upgrade, and to re-assure those that are considering it.

BeeVee
12-21-2005, 04:57 AM
Okay, Larry just used the names we are all familiar with, but in true Jedi style - there is no Nodal... There's a new node-based surface editing scheme that is incorporated into the Surface Editor (as eagle-eyed viewers of the vids spotted), and ACT and APS bear little relation now to the TLU plug-ins (since Jonas and Jarno and the rest of LightWave's development team have worked extremely hard to make them fit with the standard camera properties panel). These are not plug-ins now, they are LightWave...

B

SaturnX
12-21-2005, 05:04 AM
I guess the thing is, for those who are at the "cutting edge" of plugin power, do you think that the update is a worthy one even if you exclude these plugins?


The rendering core, and the 'in progress' newer modular design... are probably two of the biggest home grown changes. Better openGL performance i'd like to think to. Then there's edges and the better intergration of catmull clarke etc.

Worth the money, if indeed the rendering is 2.5 times faster. Or more?
Although, a renderer being re-built. . .
... On paper it reads cool. But does it say what it says on the tin?

exciting times lie ahead... hopefully. :)

SplineGod
12-21-2005, 05:20 AM
Colkai, some of what you said were also asked at the user group meeting. Jay said what Ben is saying, that those plugins were bought by Newtek and the developers of them added to Newteks development staff. Those developers are being paid to enhance and integrate what they originally started into Lightwaves core. Theyre not just slapped on but they ARE Lightwave as Ben stated. As I said, Jay made it clear that Newtek isnt interested in just welding on new features anymore. I also recall from the meeting a lot of empahasis placed on changes to the SDK as well.

SaturnX
12-21-2005, 06:00 AM
That user meeting sounds very positive.

Chris S. (Fez)
12-21-2005, 06:10 AM
I think it shows savvy to target and integrate talented third party developers wherever possible. Knowing that the developers of Nodal and Tuff Little Unit are now a (hopefully permanent?) part of the team makes me very excited for LW's future :D .

Tiger
12-21-2005, 06:13 AM
Colkai, some of what you said were also asked at the user group meeting. Jay said what Ben is saying, that those plugins were bought by Newtek and the developers of them added to Newteks development staff. Those developers are being paid to enhance and integrate what they originally started into Lightwaves core. Theyre not just slapped on but they ARE Lightwave as Ben stated. As I said, Jay made it clear that Newtek isnt interested in just welding on new features anymore. I also recall from the meeting a lot of empahasis placed on changes to the SDK as well.

Very, very good news Larry :thumbsup:

colkai
12-21-2005, 06:22 AM
Okay, Larry just used the names we are all familiar with, but in true Jedi style - there is no Nodal...
Err, shouldn't that be "this is not the Nodal you are looking for?" ;)

Thanks man, yeah, I think that's the thing that really needs to be hyped-up, that all 'plugins' are plugins no longer and are NOT the initially developed version, but have been changed / enhanced to work more with the core.

Like I say, I don't want it construed that I personally see things this way, just trying to get a clear picture for when the inevitable comments come along, (you know the ones I mean). :p

As we both know, much to our frustration, too many people see the view I made about "just buying plugins" and I was hoping for (and indeed got very rapidly from you ;) ) a strong statement to the contrary, so possible new users were left in no doubt. Though I think i'm right in saying the TFU items were never actually released anyway?

It's frustrating for us "fanboys", as someone else has already commented, everyone was clamouring for edges and edge weighting (me included) and now they are about to arrive, suddenly certain folks are saying they are old hat and what is really needed is SSS and without it LW is old news. Can ya say no-win situation? It's this POV I'm trying to address, though we all know, that's more of a pipe-dream than getting Claudi Schiffer to deliver my upgrade personally. :heart: :jester:

I'm quietly optimistic for what the eventual LW9.0 release will hold, I am also reasonably excited as to the thoughts of what LW9 may be by the time it reaches it's final 9.X release.

I do hope mind you, that Newtek does produce some more detailed VTM's on LW9 rather than leaving it to third parties. I mean, I know Larry and many others get some of their bread and butter from training materials, but it would be nice to have some "official" training so users can learn and start using the new features asap.
Proton does a fine job and it's unfair he gets flack for showing things simply because some people don't want to see them, hopefully as time rolls by, more goodies can be shown with longer videos that may quell some of those raised voices.

Just a thought, though I don't know how viable this is, but it would be really good to have some VTM's from those guys you got beta testing LW9, I'm sure that would excite the community too. Though I grant, the studios probably don't have time or have contractual conditions that may make this difficult, I think it would be a great selling point to have "Training from StudioX Incuded".
Like I say, just a random thought. :)

colkai
12-21-2005, 06:28 AM
I think it shows savvy to target and integrate talented third party developers wherever possible. Knowing that the developers of Nodal and Tuff Little Unit are now a (hopefully permanent?) part of the team makes me very excited for LW's future

Indeed, one can only imagine the brain power now in the Newtek Development team. I feel that, probably, LW now has the most skilled team "on the case" than at any time in it's history. exciting times for sure. :thumbsup:

Chris S. (Fez)
12-21-2005, 01:50 PM
It's frustrating for us "fanboys", as someone else has already commented, everyone was clamouring for edges and edge weighting (me included) and now they are about to arrive, suddenly certain folks are saying they are old hat and what is really needed is SSS and without it LW is old news. Can ya say no-win situation? It's this POV I'm trying to address, though we all know, that's more of a pipe-dream than getting Claudi Schiffer to deliver my upgrade personally.

In addition to Lightwave, I have two "competing" packages installed on my workstation, so I can hardly be called a fanboy.

A little ribbing over those videos is fine but the response to those videos from some supposed X-Lightwavers has been shockingly petty at times. I hope 9 is absolutely badass, if for no other reason than so we can flaunt its speed and stability and features in front of Newtek naysayers. It's always the same ******** too...

ps

Mmmmmmmm.....Claudia.

edit: holy ****, we can type ********!

loki74
12-21-2005, 02:37 PM
Well I am certainly with colkai. You hit the nail on the head.

And this--

I hope 9 is absolutely badass, if for no other reason than so we can flaunt its speed and stability and features in front of Newtek naysayers. It's always the same ******** too...

--would be so freaking awesome.


I am very glad to hear that these so called "slapped on plugins" are actually not slapped on, but melded and integrated into LW. I truly believe we can all look forward to a much more powerful, faster, and stabler LightWave.