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View Full Version : New Voxel renderer



toby
12-14-2005, 02:05 PM
http://www.cantarcan.com/dynamite/index.php

Not sure it looks any better than the native voxels, a few extra features, not much more information - still beta

tektonik
12-14-2005, 02:19 PM
ahhhh if only it worked with fprime now... i would buy it

Ztreem
12-14-2005, 03:28 PM
Looks really nice, I wonder how fast it renders??

KillMe
12-14-2005, 04:26 PM
that looks sweet - particle temperature to create those nice fireball effects - lightwave should have that

hairy_llama
12-14-2005, 07:16 PM
I hope it supports XDOF, has faster rendertimes, adjustable resolution and
adjustable smoothing between particles.

toby
12-14-2005, 08:01 PM
Standard Hypervoxels affect radiosity, what does this do different?

The only way I'd consider buying this is if it rendered a good deal faster, it doesn't seem like there's a huge difference from what we have now. Maybe if I did hv all the time it would be worth it -

marble_sheep
12-14-2005, 08:07 PM
One huge improvement would be if it properly supported multithreading. Maybe that's what they mean by "optimized render"?

That large cloud bank did look pretty impressive though!

But alas... it looks like it's not supported on the Mac. Surprise! :rolleyes:

harlan
12-15-2005, 02:01 AM
Awesome looking plugin, but I'm not too pleased with the output quality of the samples they have up on their site. With the exception of a few images, all the voxels look the same. They look like large clumps of cauliflower or brocolli, rather than natural clouds or smoke. They also look very granular (for lack of a better term).

Very nice to see some new plugins coming out.

-EsHrA-
12-15-2005, 05:35 AM
One huge improvement would be if it properly supported multithreading. Maybe that's what they mean by "optimized render"?

That large cloud bank did look pretty impressive though!

But alas... it looks like it's not supported on the Mac. Surprise! :rolleyes:

Compatibility
- the engine is fully integrated into Lightwave's rendering core,
- full raytracing support; reflections, refractions, transparecy and shadows
- multithreaded & multiprocessed rendering
- rendering on multiple machines with network tools like ScreamerNet

from site.


mlon

marble_sheep
12-15-2005, 06:42 AM
mlon,

Ah yes, down there at the bottom. My short attention span is my downfall :p

So, to me, that alone seems like a very significant improvement... unless, is that something that will be changing in LW 9?

toby
12-15-2005, 10:07 PM
Native HV is also multi-threaded. Nothing on that list would be new to LW.

marble_sheep
12-15-2005, 10:58 PM
Native HV is also multi-threaded.

True, but I was referring to the efficiency at which it multithreads.

For example, particle clouds with large particle sizes usually render faster with 4 or 8 threads, but take that same cloud and make it a bunch of little tiny particles, and all of a sudden having more threads slows it down. And then what if you find the optimal thread setting, but then have to change the particle size slightly? Have you crossed the threshold into a more optimal thread setting? Ahhh... too many test renders!

I rarely, if ever, have to change my threads for anything besides particles. To me, a more efficient system would be a more consistent one.

RedBull
12-15-2005, 11:32 PM
As a plugin it would have access to the same threading calls as
as HV does, LWMutil and Mtutil....... So i'd expect the threading to be the same on Dynamite.

Apart from the OGL sketch looking previews, i can't see a real huge benefit.
But maybe the videos will look good. It needs to be much faster and cheapish too....

toby
12-16-2005, 01:47 AM
True, but I was referring to the efficiency at which it multithreads.

That's what I thought you were saying, at first -
If it did do it better and that meant signifgantly faster renders, then that would be more appealing. But it's still missing a few things... anybody notice that there seems to be no Surface or Sprite modes? Only the most render intensive, Volume mode.

Elmar Moelzer
12-16-2005, 06:54 AM
Well, one thing I see is an actual blending between the Blobbs. Thats something I had been bugging the dev- team to implement for years. I think this gives a huge advantage over HVs, since less actual Blobbs are needed while you still get a nice shape that does not look to Blobby. I hope they have a nummeric control for how much they blend. If they had a Surface Mode and a nummeric Blend- Strength- setting it would make a much nicer solution for Liquid- like effects.
If you want to get an idea of the rendertimes, check the screenshots that show Viper and check the rendertimes (in milliseconds). Of course these dont say much without more speciffic knowledge of the scene (.e.g the lighting in it) and the system they used, but it can get you an idea.
We will see what the final product looks like in the end.
I am definitely keeping an eye on it.
CU
Elmar

toby
12-17-2005, 01:15 AM
Well, one thing I see is an actual blending between the Blobbs. Thats something I had been bugging the dev- team to implement for years. I think this gives a huge advantage over HVs
That would be awesome, I think you may be right, but how can we tell for sure? I know you're talking about the clumpy look with HV, where you can distiguish different HV 'puffs', but with enough HV it could look just like these Dynamite images, no?

Elmar Moelzer
12-17-2005, 07:26 AM
Sure, but more particles means more rendertime and in my personal experience you need a whole lot of particles to get rid of the blobbyness.
Anyway, they say something about that on the page. I hope it is really well implemented.
****, something like that would have made my last project so much easier.
I also hope they have a sprite- mode hopefully with clip- maps that do actually work as opposed to HVs.
We will see...
CU
Elmar

jeremyhardin
12-22-2005, 01:35 PM
first movie up! i'm downloading now:

http://www.cantarcan.com/dynamite/gallery.php

Chris S. (Fez)
12-22-2005, 02:38 PM
Movie looks OK. Still a bit "blobby" IMO.

jeremyhardin
12-22-2005, 03:06 PM
couldn't watch it. i assume it's qt7 and i can't download new stuff at work.

GregMalick
12-22-2005, 07:06 PM
I agree with Chris.... the sample movie was just OK.

A good cloud scene would have been better.

LW3D
12-26-2005, 09:01 AM
Public beta version of dynamite released..

http://www.cantarcan.com/dynamite/order.php

Greenlaw
12-26-2005, 09:25 PM
Hi,

So what does everybody think? I've only played with the public beta for a minutes; no docs so just fooling around blindly. The Fire panel is very interesting--try dialing up temperature to 900. Instant fireball.

Later,

D.R. Greenlaw

LW3D
12-27-2005, 03:35 AM
no docs, no example scenes.. so it is hard to say someting.. But it seems it is a little faster than HV, and openGL preview is really good. BeginFX,EndFX, temperature looks cool... We need more time and docs/example for say something..

phil lawson
12-27-2005, 04:59 AM
Multi threading is hosed in the beta in case some of you were getting crashes. :)

LW3D
01-04-2006, 02:56 PM
they put a quick help page on dynamite site...

Dynamite QuickHelp (http://www.cantarcan.com/dynamite/download/help/dhelp.html)

rinktoaster
01-09-2006, 08:40 PM
Anyone have a good set of settings for particle generation and Dynamite to get a quality "non-exploding" fire effect?

Are any LW settings besides the object's particle emitter dynamics and the Dynamite UI itself important? (like the regular LW hypervoxel settings?....hard to tell from the sketchy documentation)

KorbenD
01-15-2006, 03:03 PM
Beta 1.5 was released on the site.

what's new :
- runs two times faster
- global switch for opengl preview ,transparent preview option
- wireframe preview mode
- main color can be textured with LW procedural textures
- compatible with LW 7.5
- bug fixes


http://www.cantarcan.com/dynamite/index.php?page=15

Haven't tried it yet, but the 2X faster sounds nice.


Well, just tried it, and it appears that the version in the zip archive is corrupt. Only shows as 168Kb, and LW won't recognize it as a valid plugin.

Intuition
01-15-2006, 04:49 PM
The one I downloaded is 667KB.

I have tested this and was really surprised by it.

There is individual particle rotation.

Its not light years ahead of hypervoxel3 but it is alot better looking and does have alot of nice features.

Oh, try and render BG radiosity with it. Its pretty fast.

Going to test this new one tonight.

toby
01-15-2006, 06:07 PM
Yea it's looking better than it was a first. The temperature thing is really nice, makes it more intuitive. Love to hear whether it just 'runs' twice as fast or actually renders twice as fast.

Lottmedia
01-15-2006, 06:51 PM
Anyone running it on 8.5? I tried to add the plugin and it tells me no plugins were found or could not be added. Would be intrested but I'm getting nothing

J-Rod

KorbenD
01-15-2006, 07:59 PM
That's the same error I get. I sent a bug report on their website.

connerh
01-16-2006, 12:02 AM
I got it to work on my 8.5. Added it like any normal plugin.

KorbenD
01-16-2006, 06:55 AM
This was added to the download page today:

known issues :
- THE PLUGIN CAN'T BE LOADED ON SOME SYSTEMS,THE PROBLEM WILL BE SOLVED TODAY !!!




So, it looks like quite a few people had this issue.

Lottmedia
01-16-2006, 07:12 AM
Groovy, it would be nice to play with something new seeing as to how 9 has gone awol :)

IRML
01-16-2006, 08:06 AM
yeah I had the same problem with it

KorbenD
01-16-2006, 02:01 PM
Ok, it's updated as being fixed on their site. I'll give it a try when I get home from work.


Edit: Just tried the new download, and it works fine.

toby
01-17-2006, 12:38 PM
Love to hear whether it just 'runs' twice as fast or actually renders twice as fast.
!!!!
According to my first test it renders way faster!
Added a null and applied defalut settings, but made it 1 meter :

v1.5 - 1 min. 41 sec
v1.5b - 52 sec. !!
native HV - 1 min 04 sec., but looks like a lower quality setting.

More tests when I get the chance...

Also noticed on the site, Win64 and OSX versions soon to come!

connerh
01-17-2006, 01:25 PM
Wow, yes, rendering is twice as fast.

jeremyhardin
01-17-2006, 01:56 PM
and 7.5 works great too. this could very well be a replacement to volume HV's altogether (i love the random rotation feature)

ufo3d
01-17-2006, 01:56 PM
My little test
23.9sec VS 9 sec

Intuition
01-17-2006, 02:38 PM
Doing a missle with trail test right now.

The randow rotation per particle could be really cool here.

I set up a birth and death effects.

IRML
01-17-2006, 04:57 PM
Dynamite.avi (http://www.lwg3d.org/upload/general/2006/01/9161-16-448735.avi)

that's my test, about 6mb, sphere on the left and metaball blending on the right, I just wanted to compare the 2 properly

it looks way better than what I could do with regular HVs but I haven't noticed any speed improvements, that's only a Viper test otherwise rendering normally would have taken forever even on low settings

so yeah it looks fantastic but I still can't see it replacing HVs at the moment

jeremyhardin
01-17-2006, 06:10 PM
D_Clark, nice test. the metaball blending looks GREAT. i didn't see that option in 7.5. where in the interface is it?

KorbenD
01-17-2006, 07:34 PM
D_Clark, would you mind sharing the scene file for that test?

I'd like to get a feel for the settings used to get that (impressive) fire effect.

jeremyhardin
01-17-2006, 08:29 PM
D_Clark, nice test. the metaball blending looks GREAT. i didn't see that option in 7.5. where in the interface is it?
nevermind. found it, and it's there in 7.5

oR_Creeper
01-18-2006, 12:55 AM
Anyone please tell me how to access the Dynamite interface? I loaded the plugin sucessfully in LW8 Layout, however, I cannot find anything intuitive (aka a menu) to access the Dynamite settings. Supposedly according to their website, you simply "Access the Dynamite Interface...and..."

Am I too close to the tree? :/

toby
01-18-2006, 01:00 AM
You add it the same way you would add Hypervoxels.

oR_Creeper
01-18-2006, 02:25 AM
Uhh...not meaning to sound ignorant, but...I added the Hypervoxels by going to Edit, Configure Menus, then expanded the Plug-Ins sub-menu, and dragging the Hypervoxels from the left pane to a spot in the right pane (in my case under Plug-Ins.

The problem is Dynamite is not an option to drag from any expanded location in the left pane. No where to be found. Is there a particular folder under Lightwave[8] directory it should go? Right now my copy of dynamite.p is under the C:\Program Files\Lightwave[8]\Plugins\Effects folder. I tried moving and re-installing it in Layout from the C:\Program Files\Lightwave[8]\Legacy Plugins\modeler folder and no luck there either.

I greatly appreciate any assistance.

oR_Creeper
01-18-2006, 02:38 AM
NM...I was being ignorant...its Ctrl-F6, add Volumetric, Dynamite, LMB new item, then Edit button. Menu pops up. At least that's how I found it.

IRML
01-18-2006, 09:06 AM
D_Clark, would you mind sharing the scene file for that test?

I'd like to get a feel for the settings used to get that (impressive) fire effect.no problem, it's not exactly the same scene because I never even saved that one :foreheads but I spent about 5 minutes making a new one, it should be pretty close to the first

KorbenD
01-18-2006, 02:04 PM
Thanks a lot for posting it. It helped me understand some of the settings in Dynamite a bit better.

Intuition
02-06-2006, 04:01 PM
OK, here is my test with Dynamite finally.

Its a really nice voxel renderer. Just the animation settings alone with particle rotation and metaball blending make it worth a try.

Its a zipped quicktime with sorensen video codec so it should work for everyone.

I'll post better high res results later. :) Don't worry it looks good at high res too. The random rotation with a nice texture movement blended with metaball settings make a really nice billowey smoke you can not get with HVs.

jeremyhardin
02-06-2006, 04:16 PM
@intuition.
first off, thanks for considering those of us that might not be able to install the latest codec. the test looks nice.

i agree about the strengths too. align to path in HVs is great UNTIL THE PARTICLES STOP. hehe. with dynamite you can get much closer to the natural 'boil' of things.

here's a dynamite still i posted elsewhere:

Intuition
02-06-2006, 04:20 PM
I love the cloud look Jeremy.

You know, I'm lucky cause I can test with the render farm here. This test took a few minutes where at home it would have taken hours.

I think Dynamite has great potential. I also used the background radiosity in the test which does not add much of a render hit.

Did you use bg-Rad with your clouds?

They are really nice.

jeremyhardin
02-06-2006, 04:30 PM
Thanks! Indeed I did use the bg-rad, with an hdr sky (wanted to test that out) and a key distant light. There were two layers of points there with Dynamite applied to them (so that I could have varying scales and textures throughout). As a result of the overlap, though, the render times were a bit steep.

But still, after about an hour of fiddling with the look, it's already better than a week's work on HVs for clouds.