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Neuroup
11-24-2005, 07:13 AM
Hello!
I read a feature list of Lightwave 9. If i must be honest there is nothing special. It's not any sensation in gfx 3D. Generally they put some extra plugins. Fix lot of bugs, put some new options and they cut a distance beetween other programs like Maya etc. Some "new" options who can find in Feature list aren't "new" in others programs. Users of others programms are laughing when they are looking on this list.
I have one question.
Maybe it will be better for lightwave if this feature list[lw9] will be avaible in LW 8.5 ??
Ofcourse there are some great things like CCTV Shader and Timewarp.

Bye!!
Greets 4 all.

spec24
11-24-2005, 07:32 AM
I've got to admit I was hoping for more/better character animation tools and thus-far the list doesn't seem to say much about it. It will be nice though to have a faster renderer. I was also hoping to see that FPrime would have full access to LW shaders - nothing about that either. That being said NT has said that core of LW has been redone - which is a feat in and of itself so - so ler's hope the point releases will up the anti a bit :)

Wonderpup
11-24-2005, 07:48 AM
I guess it depends if you view 9 as an endpoint or a starting point. I see it as a signpost to the future- I chose to preorder the upgrade not only because of the published feature list, but because I like the thinking behind it- it's not just a collection of bolt on goodies, there is a strategy here that feels long term, and it's that, as much as new features, that I am buying into.

Gui Lo
11-24-2005, 08:09 AM
We can only give the developers so much time to settle before we start to demand a truly innovative, must have app in Lightwave.

Has the time come?

I think Lightwave has been knee-capped since version 5.5 and since that time has been playing catch-up. Considering the mountain the developers need to climb to get parity and the innovation they have delivered so far I think they deserve more time.

For me I want to see the finished version 9 and what direction and frequancy of the 9.x releases. We have been promised true innovation after version 9. So Lightwave 9 is still a catch-up version and LW10 will be the launchpad for a new Lightwave.

Gui Lo

Dodgy
11-24-2005, 09:16 AM
I think whether you think that time has come is up to the individual :)

It certainly hasn't arrived for me, I'm sticking with LW :)

Captain Obvious
11-24-2005, 09:26 AM
I read a feature list of Lightwave 9. If i must be honest there is nothing special. It's not any sensation in gfx 3D. Generally they put some extra plugins. Fix lot of bugs, put some new options and they cut a distance beetween other programs like Maya etc.
I fail to see how rewriting the core raytracer, opening up the SDK and doing other such low-level improvements can be considered adding a few plugins. If Lightwave's renderer really does become 2.5 times faster, and if Fprime really works with shaders, I'd say it's a rather big step forward.



Some "new" options who can find in Feature list aren't "new" in others programs.
What does that have to do with anything? Lightwave was the first subdivision surface modeler on the market, as far as I know. Does that mean the fact that Maya etc has SDS now doesn't matter, since they got it later? That doesn't make one bit of sense. Who cares if RenderMan has had micropoly displacements for forever? I'm happy to know LW9 will support adaptive subdivision. The fact that modo has excellent edge tools doesn't make it any less great that Lightwave gets edge tools in version 9.



Users of others programms are laughing when they are looking on this list.

Just as I'm laughing when the developers of most other applications even mention things like "well-designed user interface," or what? :) Lightwave is obviously compeditive now. I fail to see how the improvements for LW9 can make it any less so. If anything, the fact that users of other applications have had (insert feature here) for so long, should mean that Lightwave will gain even more from the addition of said feature.

Lamont
11-24-2005, 10:39 AM
Threads like this make me ROFL!!

The grass is always greener on the other side for some people.

Dodgy
11-24-2005, 11:00 AM
Users of others programms are laughing when they are looking on this list.

This from all NEW maya 7's blurb:


Collaborative, parallel workflows are supported through the ability to iteratively substitute geometry while
skinning, deformation, and key framing are in progress, and to propagate topology changes to blend shape targets.

We've had that for how many years? The fact is the structure of objects is so flexible, you can drop in a new mesh onto an old bone setup just by replacing the mesh. How much simpler can you get? You can edit Morphs in LW and change the mesh and morphs keep up.

I think it's maya catching up in some areas....

I have a huge list of features which are badly implemented in maya. If you go on any Maya forums you'll see users asking if Maya needs a re-write...

Lamont
11-24-2005, 11:20 AM
Some simple things like "Bandsaw" would be great in Maya.

You know what's sweet... having a history stack corrupt your file. That's the best feature of Maya. It's called "Re-Do".

Proj
11-24-2005, 12:03 PM
Well if it all about hype and not reality, the long list on the lightwave3d website does look a bit dry and uninspiring especialy if your shopping for new software . just my take..

Matt
11-24-2005, 12:16 PM
A lot of this is down to how you use LightWave and what for. Most people seem very optimistic about the LW9 feature list, and remember, LW9 is the open door to a much transformed v10, as already mentioned, NewTek had a lot of behind the scenes stuff to contend with, which has stunted their progress in other areas.

This put them behind by a few years which is eternity in computing terms, considering where they started and what's to come, I think they've done a fantastic job. Sure it's not perfect, but show me a 3D package that is and I'll ask you why every man and his dog isn't using it!

My only advice to NewTek, and I'm in no way casting dispersions as to their code quality! Is make the features you are introducing in v9 absolutely rock solid, production quality, and most importantly, flexible.

And remember, no detail is too small! :)

Matt

Lamont
11-24-2005, 12:47 PM
LW9 is a good move. You're only held back by your mind with 3d software.

SaturnX
11-24-2005, 12:53 PM
I'd rather see this so called 'v10' in a late v9.xx variant thanks.

v10 in my head should be, revolutionary. hehe

No pressure or anything ... newly fledged lw development team. :thumbsup:

Captain Obvious
11-24-2005, 12:54 PM
Is make the features you are introducing in v9 absolutely rock solid, production quality, and most importantly, flexible.
Give me stability or give me death!

Emmanuel
11-24-2005, 02:40 PM
(Dirty Harry voice):Stability is out, make my day....

Dirk
11-24-2005, 03:30 PM
Give me stability or give me death!

----------------------Amen!

SplineGod
11-25-2005, 02:36 AM
I've got to admit I was hoping for more/better character animation tools and thus-far the list doesn't seem to say much about it. It will be nice though to have a faster renderer. I was also hoping to see that FPrime would have full access to LW shaders - nothing about that either. That being said NT has said that core of LW has been redone - which is a feat in and of itself so - so ler's hope the point releases will up the anti a bit :)

Newtek has stated that there will be improved character tools. You have to realize that much of the improvements theyre making to LW9 greatly improve the character tools:
1. Modeler tools in layout.
This will allow a more intelligent smart skinning. Being able to create point selection sets and see them in the graph editor means that when a character is posed the points around joints can be sculpted to precise shapes and tied to the rotation of particular bones using set driven key,cycler etc.

2. Creation of Endomorphs in Layout.
This also means being able to create endomorphs directly in layout. This can already be done now but will be much better using modelers toolset.

3. Creation, editing and animation based on weight maps in layout.
This is also a pretty big one since being able to tweak weight maps in layout will speed up character rigging tremendously.
4. Integration of Relativity into Lightwave.
This is a big one because relativity has few of the weaknesses or problems the current expression engine has. Relativity was the only expression engine for LW long before and expression engine was added to LW. Relativity has been battle tested in production and is powerful and reliable. It also has the ability to control, textures, displacements and endomorphs.

5. The addition of Nodal
Even though this is touted as a shader engine it also effects displacements, endomorphs etc. It has for example, the abiltity to animate the keys in gradients. These are all things that come in handy for doing more complicated types of character work.

6. On top of all this add in improvements that are most likely going on under the hood and in other areas like bones, setup tools, IKBoost, the dopesheet, dopetrack, dynamics and so forth.

All the stuff Newtek is doing is drastically changing and improving how character work can be done. Im pretty happy with what I see is coming.
The tools and things Ive just mentioned as I said, greatly improve character workflow but on their own are not necessarily tools that are specific to characters. When taken in the proper context it represents a major shift in what can be done. :)

Red_Oddity
11-25-2005, 03:08 AM
I don't understand posts like this. You might aswell ask if we know whether LW 12 will be worth buying or not.

There's only one answer we can give you, WE DON'T KNOW...no-one in here (beta testers besides, who probably work under a NDA) has the program yet.

sorry to sound like some dreary prick again, but these posts are so useless. If you like LW8 you'll probably like 9.

pixelinfected
11-25-2005, 05:30 AM
lw 9 is a good move point be cause it not change only in external (plugin and features list) but in its core (sdk and rewriting of render, and more).
good job, Newtek guy, Good job.

this is the first step for a great future...

p.s. if a features is just present in other software not mean is same for lw, often newtek offer new features or better implementation of features that you can find in other software.

moc
11-25-2005, 05:32 AM
The basic code about the bone tools were outdate...
We can't parent the bone hierarchy from one to another object...
we need to care at many setup details .....so detail!!......such as RPR.....
or the bone set sometimes run away~
or cause the object mesh gone......~~.

May be let us can edit bones without "active" limit
and give the bone a better preview funtion such as "stick" mode for much slim


....IMHO....those weak tools push many user stop animate a character at LW....like me...

I would like to see a new and modern bone tools....and also the viewable riging tools...at layout....not just the vertex paint plugin....at LW 9...pls..

pixelinfected
11-25-2005, 05:46 AM
uhm, i not think bone tools are so crap like you tell, same thing for character animation tools. i sue also maya, zbrush, and cinema4d, and if you setup in right way character you can work fine in char animation with lw.

let me know why you want to unparent a bone hyerarchy and re parent on another obj? anyway you can do that with rig export import....

i suggest you to see demo movie did from spline god for newtek, and good thing is to buy the cd of spline god on bone tools selled from kruv studios, here splinegod explain how bone tool work and i think they work fine.

if you have problem, open a thread and let us what is your problem, the good thing of lw community is that we are a friendly community that help who is in difficult with lw.

Nemoid
11-25-2005, 06:12 AM
Lw 9.0 cannot be other than a good catch up with other programs. Its obvious, because high end apps have some of the upcoming features since years, as some of them became standards over time (let think nodal implementation ,and edge , ngons)

BUT this being said, Lw 9.0 will be a huge step ahead for Lw as well, just because they're working hardly on the core to make modern things implementation possible.
Now, this is not exactly easy and at first, enhancements can appear slow, but its IMO a necessary phase to make Lw become higly competitive in the market.There's no magic wand to make this job in less time.

Bone tools are not that crap. they work good, and Nt said they'll enhance them. same for many other things here and there. weights will allow many things in layout, and one day the whole rigging process, will be layout only stuff, and probably modeler will become the compartment where many users will like to work, but being actually seamlessly integrated together with Layout.

Emmanuel
11-25-2005, 06:27 AM
Do other packages need something like RPR ?
Why don't we have something like up-vectors, soft IK, spline IK ?
Why do other packages have different display options for bones, like box, stick, line etc. ?

Dodgy
11-25-2005, 07:23 AM
The basic code about the bone tools were outdate...
We can't parent the bone hierarchy from one to another object...
we need to care at many setup details .....so detail!!......such as RPR.....
or the bone set sometimes run away~
or cause the object mesh gone......~~.

I never meshes which 'run away' and I never used to use RPR. I'm still trying to decide whether I should or not. I lay out my bones in modeler, convert to bones in layout, though you can do that easily in Layout with the 'Draw Child Bones' command, and I'm ready to rig. I don't use weight maps, joint morphs maybe, and setting up IK is a 3 click job. How much work do you make it?

If you have a character setup it's even easier. You can replace the mesh in the scene and move the bones about and it's ready to go again.


May be let us can edit bones without "active" limit
and give the bone a better preview funtion such as "stick" mode for much slim

You can't edit bones in maya without unbinding the mesh, which is a far worse alternative. In LW all you have to do is Rest the bones after editing and it works fine. The Active mode is just a way of turning off motions etc for a mesh and hiding your other scene clutter to make editing easier.


....IMHO....those weak tools push many user stop animate a character at LW....like me...
I would like to see a new and modern bone tools....and also the viewable riging tools...at layout....not just the vertex paint plugin....at LW 9...pls..

How about making LW have Joints displayed in an absolute size rather than proportional so really large characters have joints you can't see whilst small characters in the same scene have oversized joints you can't pick out (like in other packages). Or an absolute brush size other packages so painting weights of tiny characters means you have to type in 0.0001 to get the size you want, rather than .1mm, but I think I prefer LW's brush size actually being relative, so you can zoom out to a huge character and have it work and zoom in to a small character and not have to change settings. Yeah, LW really sucks in those departments :)

I won't say LW doesn't have it's faults, but laying out skeletons isn't one of them. There are stupid things in every package, so i refuse to worship any of them.

Meaty
11-25-2005, 08:11 AM
Neuroup, are you talking about this list? http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/lw9featureprelim.php

Because, I would say that, by any reasonable measure, that is a ****ed impressive list.

AbnRanger
11-25-2005, 09:20 AM
Well if it all about hype and not reality, the long list on the lightwave3d website does look a bit dry and uninspiring especialy if your shopping for new software . just my take..
One thing that remains repeatedly overlooked is the Vue 5 Infinite addition to the LW 9 upgrade. I mean...have we gotten spoiled here or what?!
Vue 5 is not some little trinket like a free t-shirt, coffee mug, or such...yet it's routinely "vue'd" :D that way. This is one MEAN terrain and atmoshphere generation program!
The things you can do with it, and the speed at which you can do it, are simply amazing! It's a tremendous boost to a Lightwave artist's toolset and capabilities. How, then, can one possibly ask,"Is it a Good Move?"
What if Maya, Max, or XSI were to integrate Vue 5 into their toolset? There would be a great deal of buzz in the 3D Community. This latest offer by Newtek gives you effectively the same benefits.
The "Ecosystem" feature can save you an enormous amount of time. It's Renderer is another feature that's vastly overlooked. It's an extremely robust, and full-featured one. If you are creating an outdoor scene, you will definitely want to use Vue 5 and it's renderer...once you discover what it's capable of. I could go on, but you all get the point.

Now, hype this....what if Maya, Max, or XSI suddenly slashed their retail price in half? Would that be considered DRY and UNINSPIRING to their potential customers?
The fact is this.... there is a disparity in price between LW and its competitors the size of the Grand Canyon. However, there's little or no disparity in regard to performance and features available. For graduating 3D Animation students, Freelancers, and small-medium studios...this is no trivial matter.

Having said that, I really would like to see a FULL-FEATURED Hair and Fur system with interactive styling. Maya, Max, and XSI have such capabilities...that leaves LW with some catching up to do. Nevertheless, I'm looking forward to the new modeling tools, and the speed boost of the renderer.

In a Nut Shell, regarding LW's overall value, their competitors simply... "Can't Touch This." :boogiedow

SplineGod
11-25-2005, 11:45 AM
The basic code about the bone tools were outdate...
We can't parent the bone hierarchy from one to another object...
we need to care at many setup details .....so detail!!......such as RPR.....
or the bone set sometimes run away~
or cause the object mesh gone......~~.

May be let us can edit bones without "active" limit
and give the bone a better preview funtion such as "stick" mode for much slim


....IMHO....those weak tools push many user stop animate a character at LW....like me...

I would like to see a new and modern bone tools....and also the viewable riging tools...at layout....not just the vertex paint plugin....at LW 9...pls..

We cant parent a bone hierarchy from one mesh to another but its pretty simple to clone a mesh (which also clones the bones) and replace that with a new mesh. As Dodgy pointed out, doing that is much easier then trying to unbind meshes. As was also mentioned, you do have the ability to export and import rigs or parts of rigs and reuse them. The rigs can be rescaled as needed as well.
RPR is something that is rarely needed. Its not that hard to figure out when its needed either.
How hard is it to turn bones on/off for editing? Its a single button click.
Ive seen bones run away or meshes become unbound in other apps too. I very rarely have this happen in LW and when it has happened its easy to fix.

THe bone tools in LW are easy to use and are very reliable. Thats why I use them for doing character work.
----------

As for pole vectors...Id rather have per channel IK. :)
Now Spline IK and Soft IK would be nice to have.

Celshader
11-25-2005, 12:06 PM
Hello!
I read a feature list of Lightwave 9. If i must be honest there is nothing special. It's not any sensation in gfx 3D. Generally they put some extra plugins. Fix lot of bugs, put some new options and they cut a distance beetween other programs like Maya etc. Some "new" options who can find in Feature list aren't "new" in others programs. Users of others programms are laughing when they are looking on this list.
I have one question.
Maybe it will be better for lightwave if this feature list[lw9] will be avaible in LW 8.5 ??
Ofcourse there are some great things like CCTV Shader and Timewarp.

I use LightWave to earn my living, and I liked what I saw on the preliminary feature (http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/lw9featureprelim.php) list. I also like getting cool software for free. So, I have taken advantage of NewTek's current offer of LW9+Vue 5 Infinite (http://shop.newtek.com) and preordered my LW9 upgrade. NewTek promptly shipped me my copy of Vue 5 Infinite, which as AbnRanger mentioned above is no small gift for preordering LW9.

Whether or not you upgrade to LW9, however, is up to you. You're free to wait or even not buy LW9 at all, if you do not need LW9 at this time. All you will lose is a free copy of Vue 5 Infinite. If you do not need Vue 5 Infinite, you lose nothing by waiting.

---
---
---

As for the features currently on the LW9.0 list...I don't think the list stops there for the entire 9.x cycle. Remember that substantial features/changes came out for 8.0 during the 8.x cycle -- more UV interpolation options, the "Free Move" option for UV editing, more Anti-Aliasing options (PLD and the AA filters), Multishift and "Relative Particle Age" gradients for HyperVoxels, for example.

So what comes out with 9.0 is not the end of what you will get for your money when you purchase the 9.0 upgrade, since point upgrades are free. More should come out during the 9.x cycle...and as the SDK continues to open up, more good things will happen for 9.x that you will not be able to get for 8.5. For example, the Vue folks at the e-on booth last SIGGRAPH told me that Vue Fusion (http://www.e-onsoftware.com/Press/PR.php?date=July%2022,%202005) will come out for a later version of 9.x as soon as the 9.x SDK allows it. So folks will be able to run Vue directly within LightWave itself.

If you do not need Vue, however, this will not be a reason for you to purchase LW9. You alone can judge whether or not LW9 meets your needs.

---
---
---

So, Neuroup, you can wait until a feature/change that you actually need appears in 9.x, or you can preorder LW9 now and get a free copy of Vue 5 Infinite. If Maya or XSI or C4D better meets your immediate needs, and if you have the financial means to use those packages, then you should use those packages. Use the software that you can afford that does the job.

Right now LightWave currently meets my needs at a price that I can afford, so I have preordered LW9.

tischbein3
11-25-2005, 12:50 PM
I don't understand posts like this. You might aswell ask if we know whether LW 12 will be worth buying or not.

12 ? nah! 12 is crap, 13 is much better, or keep with 11....
but don't use 12 !!! :D

Now serious:
Just wanted to write an bigger (and hopefully more interesting) essay about the pro and downsides of lw in comparison to the others, but I think I will invest more time to draw this out.

EDITED:
What is RPR ?

loki74
11-25-2005, 04:05 PM
One thing that remains repeatedly overlooked is the Vue 5 Infinite addition to the LW 9 upgrade. I mean...have we gotten spoiled here or what?!
Vue 5 is not some little trinket like a free t-shirt, coffee mug, or such...yet it's routinely "vue'd" :D that way. This is one MEAN terrain and atmoshphere generation program!
The things you can do with it, and the speed at which you can do it, are simply amazing! It's a tremendous boost to a Lightwave artist's toolset and capabilities. How, then, can one possibly ask,"Is it a Good Move?"
What if Maya, Max, or XSI were to integrate Vue 5 into their toolset? There would be a great deal of buzz in the 3D Community. This latest offer by Newtek gives you effectively the same benefits.
The "Ecosystem" feature can save you an enormous amount of time. It's Renderer is another feature that's vastly overlooked. It's an extremely robust, and full-featured one. If you are creating an outdoor scene, you will definitely want to use Vue 5 and it's renderer...once you discover what it's capable of. I could go on, but you all get the point.

Now, hype this....what if Maya, Max, or XSI suddenly slashed their retail price in half? Would that be considered DRY and UNINSPIRING to their potential customers?
The fact is this.... there is a disparity in price between LW and its competitors the size of the Grand Canyon. However, there's little or no disparity in regard to performance and features available. For graduating 3D Animation students, Freelancers, and small-medium studios...this is no trivial matter.

Having said that, I really would like to see a FULL-FEATURED Hair and Fur system with interactive styling. Maya, Max, and XSI have such capabilities...that leaves LW with some catching up to do. Nevertheless, I'm looking forward to the new modeling tools, and the speed boost of the renderer.

In a Nut Shell, regarding LW's overall value, their competitors simply... "Can't Touch This." :boogiedow


The Vue deal is actually one of the reason I bought LW!! (The other two reasons were the free 9.0 ugrade and the freakin ridiculously low price).

It is an INCREDIBLE program! I mean heck.. if I feel like I need an HDR sky, i just hop into Vue and in litererally minutes (ok, not including render time) I can have a basic HDRI ready for me to use. The ecosystem thing is great, and the terrain generation simply kicks as5.

That said... the UI is a POS. Are there any other apps that have the z axis vertical? IIRC, in vue, the top view is actually considered a xy plane. To me, the front view should be an xy plane and the top view should be an xz plane. But that is a minor point as far as UI, I could go on about the stuff that really bugs me.

But it also seems to me that once we have Fusion for LW and its pretty much integrated, Vue's UI quirks will be greatly diminished.

I am greatly looking forward to LW9, and will get it as soon as we get some feedback as to its stability on OSX.

:lightwave and so will 9.0!!!! :beerchug:

ColinCohen
11-25-2005, 07:21 PM
What is RPR ?

Record Pivot Rotation.

moc
11-25-2005, 07:49 PM
hi,
I agreed there were many expert users at bone setting...and they may be have't any problems...
But this is not the major percents of users...
All of us seen those weaks at the bone tools....
And acturally those tools without any big improvement so far....(pls don't say they just add the setting plugins..)
we can't stand and say "every software has weaks ...."
...and then suffer at those weaks.....we need to sharpen them...
We can't compare LW with other's weaks....if that works.
.then You can compare with silo...shade3d...wing3d......because all of them have't bone~~~

Carm3D
11-26-2005, 04:31 AM
I think 9 will be a good move (as long as it's stable). The edges and ngons are features I've been waiting for for a long time.. There's one one gap in the toolbox LW needs for me.. Stackable, re-orderable commands. So that an expression can find something after IK, targeting, etc.

Edit: Oh yeah.. And expression groups. So groups of expressions can be turned on and off at once for speedy animation.

hrgiger
11-26-2005, 04:39 AM
So that an expression can find something after IK, targeting, etc.



Relativity that comes with 9 will be able to do this Carm.

Carm3D
11-26-2005, 04:49 AM
Ya know, I actually bought Relativity 2 pre-release.. years ago.. I couldn't find anything like that in it. Maybe it just needed better documentation. I never really used it. Always considered it a waste of money.

Stooch
11-26-2005, 12:20 PM
I am very excited about the new features, just quivering in anticipation.

gatesoffire1178
11-26-2005, 01:14 PM
Lightwave 9 is gonna be awesome. I know its supposed to be released in 4th quarter of this year obviously meaning very soon. Has NT given a date it will be around like before or after X-Mas?

toby
11-26-2005, 02:06 PM
Big increase in render speed, node-based texturing and Vue 5 -
:deal: They got my money.

Anyone who hasn't watched the demo for Vue, go here:

28mb Divx
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/Products/vue5infinite/video/Vue_5_Infinite_480x270.avi

36mb Quicktime
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/Products/vue5infinite/v5i_video_layout.php

Good stuff!
And no, I don't work for them ;D

nakrul
11-26-2005, 02:44 PM
wow. That vue looks bad ***. now I know why everyone was pushing me so hard to get vue...Very Nice. :lwicon:

SplineGod
11-26-2005, 09:50 PM
Ya know, I actually bought Relativity 2 pre-release.. years ago.. I couldn't find anything like that in it. Maybe it just needed better documentation. I never really used it. Always considered it a waste of money.
Having used relativity in production it mops the floor with LWs expression engine. Its a GOOD thing believe me ;)

tischbein3
11-26-2005, 10:31 PM
Record Pivot Rotation.

Thanks! :)

Carm3D
11-27-2005, 06:25 AM
Having used relativity in production it mops the floor with LWs expression engine. Its a GOOD thing believe me ;)

What's your impression of the documentation?

SplineGod
11-27-2005, 01:36 PM
Documentation? Probably could be better and Im sure it will be :)

RedBull
11-27-2005, 03:40 PM
I think LW9 is quite good value upgrade, Vue5+ LW9, Ngons, Nodal, Fprime Shader Sharing, all of TLU's plugins like Waterpool, will help me quite a bit....
I do own a lot less of the plugins, included in LW9, compared to LW8.

I'm not quite so sure about the Modeler in Layout tools..... (i guess we'll see)
Having so much development time, making Modeler plugins work in Layout
seems counter productive. They already work in Modeler...

To simply make them work in Layout, with updating or enhancing what or how they do when they are there, is kind of doing everything twice.... (or thrice)

There are no real SDK enhancements announced, no new classes.... (as yet)
I don't see FPrime working with Hypervoxels in the previewer..

LW9, should be nice, but it's the real work being done to the Core and SDK,
that i find so important to future versions of LW, if i can't see a direction for 10 from LW 9.x.... XSI5, and Modo201, will get used a lot more over the next 12months...... As for the poster, saying Maya people are laughing at the list,
I also laughed at the Maya7 feature list..... So i'm sure it's normal! :)

Funnily enough, Maya has dropped behind even C4D for me.....
XSI, Modo and C4D, moving forward, and improving, faster than anyone else.

Chris S. (Fez)
11-27-2005, 04:55 PM
"Fprime Shader Sharing"

Cool! Is this confirmed by Newtek?

Captain Obvious
11-27-2005, 05:12 PM
"Fprime Shader Sharing"

Cool! Is this confirmed by Newtek?
See this:

Material Shader Node Graph

LightWave 9 includes an integrated node graph to create complex shading networks or shade trees. Using existing LightWave shaders, the node graph allows the user to “wire” parameters of various shaders and operators together to create powerful shaders without any user coding required.
Not just a face lift, the Material Node Graph is a completely new method of working with materials, which offers an order of magnitude more capability than the older surface and material edit system.

• F Prime Support
It implies that Fprime will be able to render LW shaders, since it can already render all textures. Why would they write "Fprime support!" if there already was Fprime support?

Chris S. (Fez)
11-27-2005, 06:11 PM
Ah, ok, thanks. Here's hoping, but that also might just mean that Nodal supports Fprime, not that Fprime will now support shaders.

habañero
11-27-2005, 06:45 PM
Lightwave Kicks ***! Lightwave 9 will kick even more ***!

And you honest to God still get those entirely unique revolutionary developments every once in a while, or what would you call Fprime?

I guess the other packages have nice communities as well, I don't know them too well. But I am amazed at how fast and excellently you get help if you ask for it at the different LW forums. I don't think I have seen RTFM once in the time I have read them. Not to mention plugin development.

" Users of others programms are laughing when they are looking on this list."

This I can't argue with. But I am laughing at pompous nerds like those. They seem to think being able to press buttons make an artist. And they often pay way too much for what they are getting. Serenity was made on LW 8.5. Do you think that it sucked, that the lack of (native ...) SSS killed those shots?

If I should say a single thing about the LW package, it is that the developer team is as avesome. They are listening to the users to the degree that we almost have democratic rule, and I just can't see any of the capitalist moves you can see with some other companies like, say, autodesk. It just feels good to know that the program is in the hands of people that loves 3D, not money. I actually think that is worth a ****load more than this and that bell and whistle, I figure that a long term benefit while being in the first patch to render an a-s-s with s-s-s a short term one. I am just making an example of the nazi SSS effect, I don't mean that in particular but the un named un developed Free revolutionary features we are being cheated of. I mean, maybe, I don't know ...

The most ridiculous about these threads is that people don't compare what you can get for a certain price. I mean Softimage advanced have a great fur and hair system, and lotsa other stuff that aint in LW. But its list price is 7000 Quid! Start with 895$ Now put in plugins and programs like Zbrush, All the Worley stuff, Vray, Modo if you like that, Evasion3D, Maxwell, Realflow and so on, and put the rest into buying render nodes, maybe a powerbook to get to use the dual platform licence. Now What would be the best deal? I mean feature wise, there'd certainly be some uniqueness both ways, right? And obviously you could have people that could make only ace stuff no matter which and people that wouldn't be able to make a box look cool with any of them ...

I just don't see your point. Did you by the way read the article next to the spec, called LWs future? I like that even better than the feature list myself. Have a nice day!

Dodgy
11-27-2005, 06:53 PM
I think LW9 is quite good value upgrade, Vue5+ LW9, Ngons, Nodal, Fprime Shader Sharing, all of TLU's plugins like Waterpool, will help me quite a bit....
I do own a lot less of the plugins, included in LW9, compared to LW8.
I don't, I went for a couple of the TLU plugs, and Visual texture, but Vue is good value, and Nodal sounds interesting beyond just being a node shader. Oh well :)


I'm not quite so sure about the Modeler in Layout tools..... (i guess we'll see)
Having so much development time, making Modeler plugins work in Layout
seems counter productive. They already work in Modeler...

Ah, the trick is they basically extracted them from modeler, and placed them in a separate .dll, this means you'll be able to model joint morphs and paint weights for joints while testing the deformation, as well as all sorts of other uses. Most people will do the bulk of their modelling in Modeler still, but it makes other stuff a lot easier to do than presently.


There are no real SDK enhancements announced, no new classes.... (as yet)
I don't see FPrime working with Hypervoxels in the previewer..


If they're rewriting the sdk as they do the core rewrite, so every core feature is documented and given hooks, which is a guess, but I would imagine that's a sensible idea, then we could be looking at a lot more power... Fingers crossed eh :)


LW9, should be nice, but it's the real work being done to the Core and SDK,
that i find so important to future versions of LW, if i can't see a direction for 10 from LW 9.x.... XSI5, and Modo201, will get used a lot more over the next 12months......



I also laughed at the Maya7 feature list.....

So did I :)


Funnily enough, Maya has dropped behind even C4D for me.....
XSI, Modo and C4D, moving forward, and improving, faster than anyone else.

Yeah plus with mayax merging, it may have given the others in the field a bit of aboost from the uncertainty.

RedBull
11-27-2005, 08:41 PM
I don't, I went for a couple of the TLU plugs, and Visual texture, but Vue is good value, and Nodal sounds interesting beyond just being a node shader. Oh well :)

Still Ngons, Fprime Shaders, ADSDS, Nodal, still make LW9, a well priced upgrade..... In comparison to other 3D programs, Lightwave is cheap, Old timers can upgrade from LW5.x to 9.x for a good price....

My distributor, gave me a HUGE discount (shhhh) for being such a loyal LWer..
And it was going to be Free, but NT don't allow that anymore...BAH Humbug!
So LW9, is excellent value for me this year... :)
I was lucky, i never bought R2 either WooHoo!


Ah, the trick is they basically extracted them from modeler, and placed them in a separate .dll, this means you'll be able to model joint morphs and paint weights for joints while testing the deformation, as well as all sorts of other uses. Most people will do the bulk of their modelling in Modeler still, but it makes other stuff a lot easier to do than presently.

Yeah i know, but unless we are rebuilding those tools, and reengineering
them to work in a more complete and integrated way, one in which offers new possibilties, i see it as a largely tedious move....

It's okay to put Bevel in Layout, but does it offer more function?
Has it been consolidated, to allow a Bevel++ type of workflow for Layout...
I do not take too kindly, to buying everything Thrice.....
New in Lightwave 10 - Layout Bevel, Layout Smoothshift, Layout Box...
That aint new! :) But this will happen a bit with a "Parrallel Changeover"


If they're rewriting the sdk as they do the core rewrite, so every core feature is documented and given hooks, which is a guess, but I would imagine that's a sensible idea, then we could be looking at a lot more power... Fingers crossed eh :)

:) Indeed, I hope that the mainly cosmetic facelifts of LW9 reveal a major new core, that's ready to pounce throughout LW10.x And i'm sure that is the idea.....

Shader Sharing, does show that some breakthroughs are being made, but i will reserve judgement, until we have extra AA, and Gradient SDK classes etc.. :)


So did I :)

Hehehe, MotionBuilder7 integration sounded cool....... I'm not sure anything else, was worth paying for...... I offically claim Maya as the most complete failure in 3D software to date, Considering the money Alias has spent adding MR, reducing prices. And it has the most convoluted interface, and oversaturated feature list of any software...... It does plenty good....
But not considering, how much time Alias, had to build the ultimate 3D program. XSI shows how intergration, and design can mix...... Maya shows what a desire to dominate the 3D toolselt, combined with hysterical hype and
loads of money, can still make software fail miserably.... (ala the micorsoft way) Can't wait for Autodesk to destroy Max and Maya.. :)



Yeah plus with mayax merging, it may have given the others in the field a bit of aboost from the uncertainty.

Yes, Max/Maya uncertaintly gives LW9 a well timed boost.....
NT should offer cheap crossgrades from Maya and Max... at the moment. :)

theo
11-27-2005, 08:44 PM
This man's question can be traced to a cognitive decision-making disorder which often results from an adverse reaction to an overdose of roasted marshmellows at a critical time in pubescence.

I say a week or two under intense psycho-analysis here in this thread should bring him back to a normal state of mind, which is that by version 9.02 LW will morph into a celestial digital being, reigning supreme, and all peoples who use LW will also transcend time and space and morph into celestial god-like beings and by the year 2007 LW will have solved all known world hunger issues and all known world conflicts.

So, yeah, I would say the body of evidence above weighs heavily in favor of LW being the enlightened approach to god-like 3D creation.

RedBull
11-27-2005, 08:46 PM
Ah, ok, thanks. Here's hoping, but that also might just mean that Nodal supports Fprime, not that Fprime will now support shaders.

Yeah the change to the LW9 list, added that FPrime thing, not so long back
after a serious "Future of LW thread appeared"

I believe Chuck, added that to the LW9 press, to allleviate some fears.
So well done to NT, for nipping that one in the backside.... quickly.

AbnRanger
11-28-2005, 01:08 AM
This man's question can be traced to a cognitive decision-making disorder which often results from an adverse reaction to an overdose of roasted marshmellows at a critical time in pubescence.

I say a week or two under intense psycho-analysis here in this thread should bring him back to a normal state of mind, which is that by version 9.02 LW will morph into a celestial digital being, reigning supreme, and all peoples who use LW will also transcend time and space and morph into celestial god-like beings and by the year 2007 LW will have solved all known world hunger issues and all known world conflicts.

So, yeah, I would say the body of evidence above weighs heavily in favor of LW being the enlightened approach to god-like 3D creation.
Uh...Theo...huffing and sniffing glue has like whacked out your BBRRAAIINN, man....or something.
Just playing :D

theo
11-28-2005, 08:21 AM
Uh...Theo...huffing and sniffing glue has like whacked out your BBRRAAIINN, man....or something.
Just playing :D

Nah- just born with one lobe. :D