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LWnexgen
11-16-2005, 02:17 PM
I recently tried Maya 7.0 so I could try my hand at Battlefield 2 modding and I'm too dumb to get the export working right in LW. I have now decided that I hate the Maya interface. I know that the LW interface isn't exactly the most gradual learning curve, but I was able to use it far easier than Maya and 3DS Max. LW's interface used to give me fits when I first started using it but now it seems to have grown on me. Go NT and LW!

Dodgy
11-16-2005, 09:09 PM
Yeah I have to agree here, every time I use maya I find more things which make me wonder why it's supposed to be this god send. Things like the 'Reset transformation' command not working on bones once they're skinned, in fact there's very few cases when Reset Transform actually will work without throwing up some sort of complaint. In LW you can reset at any point, any part of your mesh. In maya you can go to Bind pose, but that sets ALL your bones to the bind pose, you can't just select some bones and pop them back to their rest positions and rotations. You can Try 'Assume preferred rotation' but you have to Set that preferred rotation, and it doesn't even work for non IK animation... and if you link two skeletons, suddenly you can't use bind pose anymore because it doesn't know which pose to go for.... Just picking mulitple bones up the hierarchy (so you can manually type in 0,0,0) as the rotation to reset the bones is a PITA, because maya highlights the bones as if you selected the parent bone alone (it always highlights a selected item and it's children, whether or not it actually has the children selected). And again, setting all the bones positions to 0,0,0 only puts them ont top of one another, not at their rest positions.... Do you feel my pain :)

I tell you I have a list as long as my arm about things wrong with it. I know Lw has it's faults too, Deuce knows how many feature requests I've sent off for stuff, or bug reports, but I certainly don't worship maya...

Cageman
11-17-2005, 12:48 AM
Yeah I have to agree here, every time I use maya I find more things which make me wonder why it's supposed to be this god send. Things like the 'Reset transformation' command not working on bones once they're skinned, in fact there's very few cases when Reset Transform actually will work without throwing up some sort of complaint. In LW you can reset at any point, any part of your mesh. In maya you can go to Bind pose, but that sets ALL your bones to the bind pose, you can't just select some bones and pop them back to their rest positions and rotations. You can Try 'Assume preferred rotation' but you have to Set that preferred rotation, and it doesn't even work for non IK animation... and if you link two skeletons, suddenly you can't use bind pose anymore because it doesn't know which pose to go for.... Just picking mulitple bones up the hierarchy (so you can manually type in 0,0,0) as the rotation to reset the bones is a PITA, because maya highlights the bones as if you selected the parent bone alone (it always highlights a selected item and it's children, whether or not it actually has the children selected). And again, setting all the bones positions to 0,0,0 only puts them ont top of one another, not at their rest positions.... Do you feel my pain :)

I tell you I have a list as long as my arm about things wrong with it. I know Lw has it's faults too, Deuce knows how many feature requests I've sent off for stuff, or bug reports, but I certainly don't worship maya...


Haha. I hear you. :) Maya is a robust package, but it's the little things that can make you scream. We have had alot of trouble with the mesh on a spider. We couldn't assign any shader to the legs. By accident someone just tried to apply the shader already applied AND THEN applied the new shader, and it worked. (!) Not to talk about the troubles with Mental Ray. We still donīt know if we can get an Amb.Occ-pass because of how everything works right now. Another thing is BlendShapes... I mean... we have over 100 blendshapes and the clean scenefile with only the spider is over 100 mb, which kills Mental Ray. I had to delete all unused blendshapes in order to make rendering even possible (both Mental Ray and Maya Software) *phew*

Iīve experimented with Maya2LW scripts and got the spider, camera and lights into LW. But the interactivity is non-existant because everything is evaluated through L-script. The cool thing is that the free Amibient Occ-shader for LW is so good looking compared to MR, and alot faster too. But for now, it isn't doable to use LW for some of the rendering, because of the slow L-scripting. I could bake everything to an MDD-file, but after about 30 frames, MDD-scan says it's out of memory. I got some tip from both Larry and Jennifer which could make things work with MDD, but I have yet to try it. :/ It would be nice if MDD-scan could scan to harddrive instead of memory. Where do I make feature-requests? :)

SplineGod
11-17-2005, 01:13 AM
Colin Cohen wrote a plugin that would allow JUST the mdd date needed for that frame to be loaded rather then all of it. Works for LW at least :)
One thing I would also look at doing is to scan a lower rez version of the model and then metalink a higher rez version of the mesh to the lower rez one.

Cageman
11-17-2005, 03:39 AM
Hi Larry!

Sounds like something worth looking into. We wont be able to do that with this project, beacause the deadline is tomorrow. During this weekend I will dedicate some time to get a doable solution to do things like this. It would be great to take advantage of both Lightwave and Maya in a project.

LWnexgen
12-22-2005, 12:55 PM
Alright, I've finally enrolled in a class for 3D anim. but its in maya. I have found a few nice features, but for the most part I spend my time wishing I was using LW.

jeremyhardin
12-22-2005, 01:20 PM
Colin Cohen wrote a plugin that would allow JUST the mdd date needed for that frame to be loaded rather then all of it.
personally, i would recommend the old md-plug over any of the mdd plugins currently out there. with it you can specify the number of cached frames to your liking. sometimes only the current frame cached can cause major slowdown when you've got TONS of mdd'ed geometry in your scene and you try to change your current frame.

i even wrote a script that replaces every instance of point oven's mdd reader with md-plug in the scene file.

3 frames cached is usually a good balance IMHO, btw.

Celshader
12-22-2005, 01:36 PM
personally, i would recommend the old md-plug over any of the mdd plugins currently out there. with it you can specify the number of cached frames to your liking.

I think the newer ClothFX plug-in offers the same feature: "ClothFX->File->Load Limit."

The default setting for Load Limit is 0. Since turning the Stretch Limit to 0 turns off the Stretch Limit completely, and since turning the Particle Age in ParticleFX to 0 gives particles infinite life, I'm guessing the default Load Limit of 0 removes all limits from loading MDD files. So, setting it to 1 might load in only one frame's worth of MDD info at a time. I think.

jeremyhardin
12-22-2005, 01:43 PM
I think the newer ClothFX plug-in offers the same feature: "ClothFX->File->Load Limit."

The default setting for Load Limit is 0. Since turning the Stretch Limit to 0 turns off the Stretch Limit completely, and since turning the Particle Age in ParticleFX to 0 gives particles infinite life, I'm guessing the default Load Limit of 0 removes all limits from loading MDD files. So, setting it to 1 might load in only one frame's worth of MDD info at a time. I think.

0 tries to cache it all, yes.

i just used md-plug so as not to be able to muck about with cloth settings (and to keep other users from doing it accidentally).

jin choung
12-22-2005, 03:18 PM
biggest problem i have with maya are bugs....

at least in lw, there are very few things that will actually STOP a render.... in maya, a slight breeze can evidently affect whether your render will finish or not.

he||, sometimes, you can't even get the render globals to come up!

Stooch
12-26-2005, 11:49 AM
I think maya rocks at some tasks and luckily im not afraid of a different interface to use them...

p.s. Lightwave is good and all, but its very far from a perfect program...

edit:

If you want to knock mayas interface, ill share a tip with you so that my post has some usefullness instead of being all negative...

MAYA interface can be seen as daunting or awkward However if you get into the flow of maya, and understand how its meant to be used, you will find that it has one of the fastest interfaces on the market. When i was a hardcore maya user in school, i set it up so that almost all the buttons, icons, toolbars and extra navigation aids were disabled and interfaced almost exclusively with the HUD popup via the spacebar. Just one tap of the spacebar and a quick flick of the wrist could snap me to any of the multitude of common functions. in a fraction of the time it would take in LW.

Given the richness of tools and all available features, this ability is no small feat when compared to the toolset you navigate in LW. In fact, LW tried to rip off that same functionality with the mouse popup menus. I use them pretty heavily and they speed up my workflow quite a bit. if you exploit the same functionality, then you should have an idea of how powerful the maya HUD is...

Lets not get into the history stack, the UI customization, SBD, cloth, render options, mel scripts, ogl speed, etc.

[mods if you want to edit my posts to remove things you dont like, spare me the personal touches, pm me if you have a problem - like you preach btw.]

SplineGod
12-26-2005, 06:31 PM
I dont think that not liking how sofware works or operates is necessarily knocking it.
People are here in THIS forum obviously because(for whatever reasons) they like LW.
I dont think its necessary to refer to people who have a software preference as 'fanboys'. It just gives the post an air of being unprofessional.
Consider afterall that this IS a LW forum. I know I certainly dont come to a LW forum to learn or hear about Maya. Most people generally know where Maya forums are.
I also know a lot of professionals who also find Mayas interface to be convoluted but the same can be said for just about any application you can name. The features you mention in Maya can be strengths in some situations and weaknesses in others. :)

colkai
12-27-2005, 02:44 AM
oh great, another thread knocking other software because someone isnt comfortable or adept at the interface.
....
MAYA interface can be seen as daunting or awkward to an amateur.

Wow, a post in a LW thread on a LW forum defending another package, that's new. :p
I guess us LW amateurs need to "educated" once more. Tell me though why it's ok for users of other packages to come to this LW forum and attack LW but it's not ok for people who use LW to in any way to critisise any other package?

We may be called LW fanboys, but I'm pretty sure we don't spend our time posting on Maya forums about why LW is better than Maya. So who becomes the bigger software fanboy I wonder?

bluerider
12-27-2005, 05:32 AM
Learn the techniques of animation and worry less about the tools. The tools change over time (quite a bit in the past 20 years), but the principles of animation can serve you for much longer. ;)

Harold Swift,
Couldn't agree more,

LWnexgen,when learning animation, concentrate on the basic principles.

A state of the art tool I really recommend regarding learning these basic principles are with a pencil. The pencil will not crash on you, but arm yourself with a sharpener?

The costing is really quite good regarding these tools of choice :thumbsup: ?

SplineGod
12-27-2005, 05:39 AM
Wow, a post in a LW thread on a LW forum defending another package, that's new. :p
I guess us LW amateurs need to "educated" once more. Tell me though why it's ok for users of other packages to come to this LW forum and attack LW but it's not ok for people who use LW to in any way to critisise any other package?

We may be called LW fanboys, but I'm pretty sure we don't spend our time posting on Maya forums about why LW is better than Maya. So who becomes the bigger software fanboy I wonder?

Colkai,
I also found it interesting for someone to call others amateurs and in the same post also refer to themselves as 'a hardcore user while in school'. Its also interesting to note that if you like Maya and talk about it (especially in a LW forum) that you arent a fanboy but if you talk about LW in a LW forum you are a fanboy. Stranger things have happened I guess... :)

Hey Graham! :)
I agree about learning animation principles. While 2D and 3D animation do share some basic principles in common (as do all forms of animation) they are very different. Animating a character in 3D is very different then animating in 2D. Animating 3D characters is more akin to puppeting then anything else. Theres really no drawing involved. Drawing takes longer and is far more tedious,
Its alot easier for me to pose a character, adjust timing and see the results immediately which you cant get with pencil and paper. Im not knocking pencil and paper and I do sometimes throw around some ideas by drawing quick thumbnails but thats about it. Even so its usually faster for me to load in a character and start playing immediately. I can understand where youre coming from especially since you have a hardcore 2D background :)

Chuck
12-27-2005, 07:40 AM
Everybody, keep the discussion to your views of the software, not each other.

Stooch
12-27-2005, 03:18 PM
Colkai,
I also found it interesting for someone to call others amateurs and in the same post also refer to themselves as 'a hardcore user while in school'.


been using 3d software for 4 years before school. want to keep playing jump to conclusions? (i never implied that im a "MayaGod"..)

also, if you cant get around maya then yes you are an amateur at maya, its something that is understood and was not directed at anyone in particular.. is it me or someone (including the mods) find the word "amateur" as a personal insult? Everyone was an amateur once, so whats the problem here?

posting in a lw forum about another package is great and can be educational. saying that you tried a package just to detract from it, especially when not using it in depth is not. I even gave examples of good points in the program so maybe the user might have a better experience with it. I dont think its the first time someone is being defensive about a good program that has alot of potential either. :rolleyes:


p.s. another great feature of maya is the panties unbunch .mel script, very similar to UV unwrap. :thumbsup:

Cageman
12-27-2005, 04:53 PM
also, if you cant get around maya then yes you are an amateur at maya, its something that is understood and was not directed at anyone in particular.. is it me or someone (including the mods) find the word "amateur" as a personal insult? Everyone was an amateur once, so whats the problem here?

I read the post before the mods edited it and you refered to LightWave users as fanboys, and used the word amateur in the same context. Which, I read as "LightWave users are amateurs" rather than "not knowing how to use Maya".



posting in a lw forum about another package is great and can be educational.


I agree, but these threads do get into a flamewar sooner rather than later. Also, pushing an application onto users isn't the way to go. Too many times these threads are about leaving LightWave for app x, rather than adding a tool, making it work with LightWave. Productive threads, like "Share your workflow, how do you use app x with LightWave?" are rare. :/



saying that you tried a package just to detract from it, especially when not using it in depth is not.

I have to agree, somewhat. Using a demoverison isn't going to make you learn the software in depth, because the demo is just a...demo. :) But in this case the UI was the big detraction. One of our teachers tried LightWave once, but he didn't get his head around LightWaves workflow and UI, and because of that he couldn't use it in depth. He understands why people like it, but for him to use it, well... point a gun to his head and he may...

In other words: When you feel you already have the tools you need, it is hard to find motivation to sit down a few days and learn a new tool.



I even gave examples of good points in the program so maybe the user might have a better experience with it. I dont think its the first time someone is being defensive about a good program that has alot of potential either. :rolleyes:


Attacking and defending isn't very productive. But this is a LW-forum, and if the users feel they are being picked on, prepare for a strong defense. :)

Stooch
12-27-2005, 05:00 PM
hahaha.

That they do. although my intention is to defend maya not attack lw users. Moderators are probably searching for the term "fanboy" to put the smack down, lol.

btw im a lw user and i love it, more then maya for my needs so if anything I am a LW "fanboi"

SplineGod
12-27-2005, 09:28 PM
My comments were making no assumptions about anyones level of experience with 3D software. I was simply pointing out as cageman mentioned that using terms like 'amateur' or 'fanboy' are somewhat inflammatory and give the impression of making an assumption concerning the experience level of others on this forum. Also, since this forum is for the discussion of LW I dont think its all that appropriate or necessary to 'defend' competing apps. As I said, most people know where to get to get that information.:)

Intuition
12-28-2005, 01:48 AM
Out of pure curiosity I have a question.

I've heard around the garden of Eden, tee hee, that someone made a Lightwave interface for Maya. Is this a rumor or in fact true?

I use Maya for little things here and there (clouds, lava) and have always though how much faster I would be at it if the interface was suited for a faster workflow like lightwave.

Even having used Maya for 3 years now and knowing where the buttons are I still can do everything faster in Lightwave. I think LW interface is testament to that.

Well, any info on this "Lightwave interface in Maya" rumor appreciated.

Red_Oddity
12-28-2005, 02:38 AM
And peace and goodwill to all mankind...oh wait...Christmas was 3 days ago....errrr...carry on..

mattclary
12-28-2005, 05:31 AM
I tried LightWave and Maya (and Max). LightWave was intuitive and user friendly from the very start, Maya was not. As a hobbyist, rather than a student, I was not required to learn Maya (or any other package), I CHOSE my package based on ease of use. I'm sure Maya is a good package, it just isn't for everyone. Most people here have decided they prefer LightWave, this IS a LightWave forum, after all. You will convince few here of the superiority of Maya.

Matt Clary
Amateur Hobbyist Fanboy

Stooch
12-28-2005, 07:50 AM
making an assumption concerning the experience level of others on this forum.
hmm

and in the same post also refer to themselves as 'a hardcore user while in school'.
hmmm???

lol, so lets get this straight, posting how much other programs suck is OK, defending other programs here is USELESS and NOT OK and im on a mission to convince someone? Lets just say that im not out to convince anyone as much as the original poster.

Personally, knowing lightwave went a long way to help me transition to maya, maybe the truespace experience helped?

aaah truespace, now THAT is an interface (jk).

ingo
12-28-2005, 08:17 AM
.....aaah truespace, now THAT is an interface (jk).

Well you're right, only Bryce has a better and more intuitive interface ;)

mattclary
12-28-2005, 10:30 AM
Well you're right, only Bryce has a better and more intuitive interface ;)

I think you were going for irony here, but it's not ironic when it's true. Bryce kicks the sh*t out of TrueSpace on interface. But of course you can't do as much with Bryce as you can with TrueSpace, so it follows that the interface is more manageable.

AbnRanger
12-29-2005, 06:37 AM
Now that we are in the Buffet line of 3D Applications...somebody pass the Poser, please :D

Intuition
12-29-2005, 01:00 PM
So, does anyone know about the Lightwave interface in Maya?

I head someone coded a mel script so that Maya has Lightwave's interface.

mad rumor?

ColinCohen
12-29-2005, 01:49 PM
I head someone coded a mel script so that Maya has Lightwave's interface.

Now they just need a script so that it has Lightwave's modeler. :)

colkai
12-30-2005, 09:09 AM
..and Lightwave jsut needs Blenders Fluids... <GD&R>

Sorry, just played with them - oh boy, I wish HV's could do liquids like that - in a FREE app too. Mind you, one should not sneer at free software, how many of us got into 3D via Povray I wonder? ;) Still have a soft spot for it and Moray, interestingly, Povray had "media" long before many of the "big boys" had any sort of volumetrics and fire.

ercaxus
12-30-2005, 06:40 PM
..and Lightwave jsut needs Blenders Fluids... <GD&R>

Sorry, just played with them - oh boy, I wish HV's could do liquids like that - in a FREE app too. Mind you, one should not sneer at free software, how many of us got into 3D via Povray I wonder? ;) Still have a soft spot for it and Moray, interestingly, Povray had "media" long before many of the "big boys" had any sort of volumetrics and fire.

do not underestimate the powers of the opensource software :)
take a look at wings3d too since you are taking a look around. Export your mesh in .obj format. Unwrap it in wings3d and send it back to :lwicon: . You have a free UV plugin :)

colkai
12-31-2005, 03:14 AM
Ahh, I had heard something like that, guess I'd better go and get that too. :)
One supposes you should do this process prior to any "proper" surface assignments etc..