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View Full Version : Speed Razor 5.1 and VT4 4.5



ottis41
11-14-2005, 10:11 AM
Can anyone get speed razor to work in VT4 4.5?
i try and open speed razor, it trys for about 2 min to open, then just quits.. a Dr wattson process runs for a few seconds and then nothing.
any clue.

I am affraid to un-install and then run the installer, i have a licens file, but with i-sync being out of buissnes, i feel am prety much out of luck at that point.

Pete Draves
11-14-2005, 10:23 AM
razor only works with the v3x of toaster

newtek seems to be ignoring 3rd party edit for toaster.

I have thousands of dollars for plugins for razor and premiere and the fx are not duplicatable in TeD

I am not happy either.
Pete

JReble
11-14-2005, 10:38 AM
:agree:

Yup. Yup. and... Me too. :thumbsdow

ScorpioProd
11-14-2005, 03:09 PM
I don't really think it's reasonable to expect Newtek to offer any further support for Speed Razor.

Speed Razor's connection to the VT was simply for VT[1], before Newtek created their own editor, that's all. And the relationship between the two companies was never very good.

Newtek kept support in there for two full generations after that, while people could have plenty of time to migrate.

Now In-Sync doesn't exist anymore.

Though there are always a few people that want to use other NLE software with the VT, there really isn't a benefit to Newtek in helping others to compete with their home grown editor. More importantly, frankly, there are MANY better video I/O cards than the VT card out there now that work fine with other current NLEs, and even offer HD support on most of them. And for people that think, well, the VT card would give them the switcher support and then the other NLE for the editing, there is no way it would be easy to integrate such a method.

I feel for you guys, but I really can't see Newtek investing support in this versus using that effort to improve their own product. Even Bob Tasa decided there isn't a point to working further at Premiere Pro plug-ins for VT.

Pete Draves
11-14-2005, 04:15 PM
they have a recent plugin for razor included with 4.5 and 4 but it dosent work.

Oh Yes... they now have dvd workshop included with vt. would you like to have support for the old 2.5 tempeg removed. no plugin for ver 3.

just because nothing is new dosent mean it is not to be used.

I know of 5 wedding studios that would move to toaster but all their plugins and razor nolonger work. they wont buy a toaster to migrate to.

boris red works with every editor on the planet but vt.

for this there is a reason. Oh yes vt only does realtime.

so anything that requires a render is not to be used?
I have started to not support vt for EDIT ONLY solutions, BUT I is Best for
Large I Mag situations and for this it is best although several churches export the clips captured to a machine with premiere pro for edit. That really surprised me.

Pete

ScorpioProd
11-14-2005, 09:14 PM
The plug-ins to encoder programs are simply optimized versions of the AVI wrapper. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking you'd want to see real-time versions of your videos in the other NLEs, but that's not what you get from an AVI wrapped project. Just ask Bob Tasa how hard and how much effort it takes to make plug-ins work in other NLE apps in real-time. (BTW, Newtek didn't make a plug-in for TMPGEnc 3.)

It's nothing to do with age of the application, it has to do with is it complementing the feature set of VT or competing with it.

I whole heartedly agree with you that VT-Edit is falling WAY behind the competition. That's why Newtek needs to invest in things that the competition has, like HDV support. VT[4] 4.5 was a LIVE update, that's it, it didn't give anything significant new to the EDIT part of it. :(

Also, though I hate to say it, since I am one of them myself, Newtek isn't marketing the VT toward wedding and event work. They have stated this.

Oh, and I do agree it is a bad policy of Newtek to allow ONLY real-time effects in VT-Edit.

Pete Draves
11-15-2005, 07:53 AM
most tv spots I do on toaster are way beyond realtime. And when you open oine in front of client you may wait 10-15 min to render.
Toaster does not even tell you what has to render like other editors.

Also subprojects in toaster cannot have transitions put on them.
At least adobe is sub project oriented.

The problem with Newtek and Premiere Pro is the audio.
We do not hav standard audio!! We donot even have a standard 2 chan Stereo Wave file that will be aceppted into all programs.
Than Sounforge for being so lienient>

All of this from the people who started the metadata idea in video editing
Pete

ps
I am not against newtek, the vt4.5 and tricaster are great for live switching.

I just want editing to come back.

Pete

ScorpioProd
11-15-2005, 11:56 AM
:agree:

The editor needs the work now, NOT the live world.

Pete Draves
11-15-2005, 12:26 PM
I agree! That is why I have only one vt4.5, The other is a vt3.
With vt3 I can use razor to see if the spot can be edited more effectively on the Ted or the razor project.
I know that razor is dead but there is also no other editor that does quite the compositing on the timeline.
The bigest reason that no one company wants to invest in a plugin for toaster edit is, Newtek changes the requirements every time there is a new upgrade. The best example is Bob T's plugins, they have to be rewritten every upgrade. Also the audio.
Is it too hard to write the code for a standard audio and be one with the world????
Pete

billmi
11-15-2005, 02:34 PM
Also subprojects in toaster cannot have transitions put on them.


Yes, they can.

They don't have all the control tree functions that a clip has (and that's a much wanted feature, at least by me) but DVEs work with them fine.

Pete Draves
11-15-2005, 02:38 PM
Not enough if theris transparency.
Also need transions between twoitems with transparency.
and the ability to do warps on 2 image or more planes like boris red
Pete

JReble
11-15-2005, 06:54 PM
The point is that third party plugins are slim to nil for VT2-4 and Newtek knows it. It ain't about a competing edit package.
The real bummer is that an Adobe 6 plugin existed and worked for a brief period, but it's my understanding Newtek made it difficult/impossible to keep functional. My impression is it was intentionally made defective with subsequent builds. I could care less about Premier Pro, but I'd love to easily use the thousands of dollars in plug ins I've purchased over the years like boris, final effects, film FX etc. etc. etc. I think the old RTX stuff scared Newtek a bit, but instead of embracing the possiblities and offering up new capabilities for sale, Newtek decided to kill it, bury it, and pretend it never happened. JMHO of course. It does give me pause when considering a purchase of any kind of third party capabilities for VT, and makes me wonder how long anything, if purchased, will work.

Pete Draves
11-15-2005, 09:08 PM
I purchased the multi cam plugin from Bob T. Yes it no longer workswith toaster
that was 2 upgrades ago.
I need stuff that works now.
I have enought money invested in plugins for premiere and old razor to buy more than 2 new toasters.
I HAVE kept one toaster at the last build of vt3 and may have to roll back the vt4.5 to 3 so I do not loose any more clients for tv spots.
I have been working with 20 grand adapters to use fixed focal ariflex lenses with the camera. Great stuff. 120Gs for 5 lenses. great depth of field.
Pete

ScorpioProd
11-15-2005, 09:39 PM
Bob has all his plug-ins compiled for whatever version of VT you are running, just drop him an e-mail.

Pete Draves
11-15-2005, 10:05 PM
yes I know.
But that is another charge for every new upgrade because newtek does not write standard editor hooks in their code.
Pete

Bobt
11-16-2005, 04:42 AM
Hi Pete I only charge tween major revisions like from 3 to 4 or 4 to 5
Drop me an email. Its $25 and I send out a CD or DVD.

Bob

JReble
11-16-2005, 07:19 AM
Bob has all his plug-ins compiled for whatever version of VT you are running, just drop him an e-mail.

Not all Eugene. All the RTV in Premiere stuff is pretty well history. I tried to stay current with it, but every release or patch of VT broke it in some way and Bob gave up on it.

Bobt
11-16-2005, 11:43 AM
This is true but ll the VT plugins are kept very current.
Ask the beta guys.
Premiere got cut when VT went from 3 to 4.
Why? Sales. Those plugins are a major pain to write and
when Premiere and VT change they need to keep up.
I think I have explained that the amount Premiere/VT plugins
I was able to sell were no where near the effort required.
It was just too hard to do and brought in too little income.
Did I like doing them? Yep. Do I love my users. Yep.
Did it make sense to do them? Well if they were about
1000 per copy and I had 50 copies I could sell.
They are that hard to write. Realtime Video I/O is not trivial.
You fight machine hardware configurations as well as
trying to tie two companies together that are in no hurry
to aid ya.

You sign up those 50 sales and I will make Premiere and VT marry.
Heck probably even quit my day job, :bangwall:
hate the thing anyway.

Bob