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View Full Version : 8.5 Render Crawl?? Status request!!!



paulhart
11-02-2005, 05:22 PM
I have a scene file that I rendered using 8.3 that was slow (6-8 hrs) but depending on the settings, it did render and now is the cover of a book. I am now trying to render out a slightly larger version (1800x1310) of the same scene for a poster for a upcoming book signing, but it never gets done. I killed the render two days ago because it derailed other projects. I re-started it Monday (today is now Wednesday 4:15pm PCT) and it still is on the first pass 1/3 PLD. The Windows task manager shows 100% usage of the dual Opteron, I have 4 gigs of memory, and the same scene renders with FPrime just fine, either in the preview version or the FPrime render, quality 2, and I wanted to comp together the FPrime render with the Lightwave render selectively, if it ever gets done!!! The Windows Task Manager shows slow shifts in the "Mem Usage" for 'lightwav.exe' even with little else running. How about a "progress slider" in the render, to at least let me know if it is actually working?? How about a "pause button", or "continue render." I attempted to use Amleto on this scene file, which worked before, but gags in the 'moving objects' phase of the dialogue LOG, then restarts LWSN.EXE again. I like Amleto for background renders, you can set priority easily, watch the dialogue window, and pause if needed. I am about ready to "crashout" the render, since I have no way of knowing if it is hung. What happened??? Same file!!!

ACLOBO
11-03-2005, 12:08 PM
have you tried doing a fresh install of lightwave 8 - 8.5? You have to delete or remove your lightwave preference files from their locations as uninstalling lightwave leaves them there. I found that lightwave was a turtle going from 8-8.3-8.5.... SO, I uninstalled everything, deleted all registry entries and preference files. THen I installed 8 and then updated directly to 8.5 (leave your sentinel drivers though as 8.3 drivers changed). This fixed the lightwave slowdown issues.

However, 8.5 modeler and some parts of layout are buggy as **** with bad display issues... Hopefully Newtek will update 8.5 soon and not just ignore us while trying to get 9.0 out.

-Adrian

Hoopti
11-03-2005, 05:54 PM
You didn't really say how big the first image was, but it's not always safe to make the assumption that just a little bit bigger that render times should stay similar. For example, doubling your image size will effectively quadruple your render time (twice as high times twice as wide = 4 times as long), and then you add Anti-Aliasing to that and they have that many more polys to handle.

If there are any volumetrics (lights/HVS), area lights or renderosity is enabled or other such render hogs enabled, if so, it sucks up the time even that much more. Do you have the viewer in place to see what it's doing rendering.

How many threads are you running? How many processors do you have setup running the scene (meaning setup in the program itself)? Are you using one segment and it's pushing over into the virtual file storage and so getting slowdowns due to some disk thrashing.

Your experience is strange. I've found 8.5 to actually render a little faster than 8.3 on the limited tests we've run here. Something's not adding up and I've thought about as much as I can right now, head hurts.

Hoop

RedBull
11-03-2005, 06:29 PM
Turn on Show render in progress to on, that way you can see if it's just stopped or doing something, like what was said, it can take a fair bit longer to render even a slightley larger image.....

Turn off AA to test if it renders without it.....
Can't you just you use the Fprime renderer?

As for adding a renderprogress monitor.... It could be done,
but it would slow down LW's renderer and use memory....
With LW's current renderer a pause button, would be a problem i think...

Still i have been there before myself.....
Thankgod Fprime can do stuff like limited region rendering etc....

paulhart
11-05-2005, 06:20 PM
Redbull, Hoopti, et al.... Thanks for the thoughts. This same scene rendered at large sizes before without difficulty but gags now. Very frustrating. To get it to work, I changed any area lights to spotlights, shadow mapped only on two lights, no HV's, no volumetrics. It stalls as soon as I try to double up the multiplier in the camera.
I took one of the suggestions, and turned on the image preview, started the render and could at least see that it was crawling... so I let it run and eventually completed, but not at the doubled size.
I did a FPrime render already, at the doubled size, no problem, looked great, but it doesn't handle Shaders in general and the Ambient Occlusion is one of the included ones. So I composited the lower res. Lightwave render on to the FPrime render to get the best of both, but the Lightwave render wasn't at as high a resolution as I wanted to go.
I have 8 threads going, two Opteron 64, 4 gigs of memory with the 3gig switch on at boot, nothing else running.
Very disappointed at the longer render times!!! Come on Newtek, this is going the wrong direction.......??????

toby
11-05-2005, 06:51 PM
Perhaps the Amb Occ shader is more demanding at higher resolutions? In some tests I did, it takes about as long as backdrop radiosity, depending on the scene.

Why don't you render an Amb-occ-only pass in LW, turning off everything else, to be comped with the FPrime render?

Also, if you're raytracing reflections, turn down the ray recursion to 8 or even 4.

paulhart
11-06-2005, 06:19 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Why don't you render an Amb-occ-only pass in LW, turning off everything else, to be comped with the FPrime render?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I had read about this and thought about this but do not seem to find enough info in the manual or books. I thought to turn on matte object to white, but everything rendered white, without shaders or shadowing, and after reading the manual for answers, it turns out that this is what it is supposed to do???? why??? seems a bit useless, but apparently what do I know....
I then went back in and surfaced everything in the scene with a default white surface, included the Amb Occlusion Shader to all of the objects, and set it to render, with the preview window open, .... and there it sits. I guess it is working, but I do not know if I am even doing anything useful. Resolution is set to 2400x4050, the size I need and the one that FPrime renders flawlessly, but without the Shaders????
How do other people do separate passes, such as Shadow, of Ambient Occlusion. Is Surpasses the only way, and would that even handle this question?? Very frustrated
I had also tried to increase the Memory Segment size, since I have a lot of memory, but larger sizes don't work, but it will work at lower levels (64) I do not understand the logic on this one. Yes, I RTFM all the time, but it can be a bit cryptic on what passes for obvious. Any help from bright souls anywhere???
Thank you for trying to keep me a Lightwave enthusiast, it is a slow slog....

toby
11-06-2005, 06:52 PM
To make an Amb-occ or shadow pass, color everything white and render it, ( no matte white objects or luminosity) then composite this image over the normal image using the Multiply blend mode in Photoshop.

Considering how much trouble it's been, I'd try doing this without the Amb-occ shader, and just use backdrop radiosity. You'll just need to set the backdrop color to white and turn all lights and raytracing off. And do some low-res tests first, so you can see if it's going to work before rendering it for 2 days.

toby
11-06-2005, 07:16 PM
Matte objects are supposed matte out that object, so you don't want any shading on it! If you're rendering two objects separately, but one passes behind the other, you'll need a matte of the object that's in front, so it covers up the other object as it passes behind.

Segment memory limit doesn't provide any extra memory, it just allows you to lower it, and makes LW render in smaller peices. The best setting is the lowest needed to render in one segment, only lower it if LW can't handle the whole image at once.