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View Full Version : LW3D 64Bit No Speed increase?



lightmax
10-24-2005, 12:33 PM
I just installed the 64bit download on my Intel Dual Zeon 3.2 Ghz 64Bit. I'm running win XP 64 bit and I see no increase in speed from the wi32 bit version. actuall it took 1 min longer that the win32 8.5 version. I was rendering th Radiosity_box from my old content. it took 19 minutes on 8.5 win32 and 20 minutes on 8.5 win64. hmm...

I'm I missing something here?

Was this not supposed to be an exponential increase in speed?

thanks :help:

Elmar Moelzer
10-24-2005, 12:37 PM
Hey!
The speed increase only happens if your scene was swapping memory before.
Of course you need enough memory in your machine to benefit from 64bit (means above 2Gb).
CU
Elmar

lightmax
10-24-2005, 01:08 PM
So does that mean I can't do anything in 64bit until I get more Ram than My 2 gig that I have? How much will I need to do a simple scene? or say to do radiosity_box to check it out?

Thanks

lightmax
10-24-2005, 01:47 PM
alright, I just turned off my virtual memory to test this issue. I monitored my memory throught the process and it never got over 500mb during the render.

I re-rendered the Radiosity Box Scene with no memory swapping and now it took 21 minutes!!! What is the problem here!!

lots
10-24-2005, 01:53 PM
I think what he means is you will not see a benifit of the 64bit LW in scenes that are small. This is because small simple scenes easily fit into memory.

64bit LW on the other hand will allow scenes to be VERY complex at which point they eat up more than 4GB of memory (the boundry for any 32bit based program). Since 64bit LW and 64bit Windows both handle more than 4GB of memory, complex scenes that utilize more than 4GB of memory stand to benifit most from the transition to 64bit.

For example, i have a model space ship that is around 500,000 - 800,000 polys. In 64bit LW i was able to successfully load 20 instances of this model and render (though since I only have 2GB of memory, I was soon thrashing, the mem usage on task manager topped out at 3.18GB), due to my machine physically not having enough ram for the scene, I quit rendering since I was not rendering at 100% CPU usage. In 32bit Lightwave I would not be able to load that many instances of my space ship. Let alone hit render ;)

Perhaps I will test further and render 40 instances of this ship, so that I can be sure I'm using more than 4GB of memory during rendering. That should choke 32bit lightwave into a crash.

mattclary
10-24-2005, 02:02 PM
Try loading the scene with Moon Base Alpha and the Eagle lander, maybe add a few Eagles to the scene. Try it in 32bit and in 64bit. I think you will see the advantage of 64bit.

lightmax
10-24-2005, 03:45 PM
Thanks aa bunch guys!!

That cleared up a lot for me. the Moonbase took up 1.3 gig in memory WOW!!

thanks

LightMax

Radamanthys
10-25-2005, 01:29 AM
of course the gain is when you need more than the 32bit memory limit, but still its a little disapointing to see no speed boost of the use of the 64 bit registers. especialy when you see cinebench (the cinema 4d render engine) getting speed boots over 30% when going from win32 to win64.

DogBoy
10-25-2005, 01:46 AM
That's odd, as I've noticed fairly substantial speed increases. On my present project I've seen render times cut to 3/4 of the 32bit and I've only got a very simple scene wi' a couple o' area lights and a character.

Lightwolf
10-25-2005, 03:17 AM
That's odd, as I've noticed fairly substantial speed increases.
AMD or intel? It seems that AMDs react better to 64bit codes than the current bunch of intel processors does.
I also asssume that the 32bit version was so heavily optimized for intel anyhow, that there isn't much difference to the more 'generic' 64bit version.
Cheers,
Mike

CAClark
10-25-2005, 03:20 AM
I think newtek should provide clearer info about these issues.

DogBoy
10-25-2005, 05:57 AM
I think newtek should provide clearer info about these issues.

In what way? They have not made any claims that it would do anything apart from handle massive data-sets and address more memory.

I for one was pleasantly surprised that there was a substantial decrease in render times. I'd put that down to the compilers being wieghted in AMDs' favour (for once) over Intels'. To be honest this was the first time I'd heard of anyone having this issue.

mattclary
10-25-2005, 06:25 AM
In what way? They have not made any claims that it would do anything apart from handle massive data-sets and address more memory.

I for one was pleasantly surprised that there was a substantial decrease in render times. I'd put that down to the compilers being wieghted in AMDs' favour (for once) over Intels'. To be honest this was the first time I'd heard of anyone having this issue.

Did you test with 32bit 8.5 and 64bit 8.5? I was wondering if the speed increase you saw might be due to general 8.5 render enhancements. :question:

DogBoy
10-25-2005, 07:07 AM
Did you test with 32bit 8.5 and 64bit 8.5?:question:

Sorry, I should have clarified that. This was a 8.5. to 8.5 comparison, on a Athlon 4600+ x2 cpu, 4GB RAM, both on WinXP64. I'll admit my testing wasn't scientific, I just rendered a couple of scenes I was working on and saw improvements in speed. I didn't compare either of them to 8.3 (it didn't occur to me).


I'd put that down to the compilers being wieghted in AMDs' favour (for once) over Intels'. meant I would put that down to the compilers being wieghted in AMDs' favour being the reason my experience was different to the OP under LW64, not that I had assumed that was why there was a difference (for me) between the two 8.5 builds. AMDs x64 implementation seems to be more mature/efficient then Intels at the moment.

Sorry if my posts seem tetchy, it's more with (work) distractions then wi' the people on this thread.

lots
10-25-2005, 07:16 AM
From what I can tell, Intel's 64bit CPUs are not fully designed to AMD's x86-64 spec. This could be one reason Intel 64bit x86 chips do not perform as well.

Though, I have a dual Opteron 246, and have noticed a slight speed decrease on my current projects. What kind of renders are you running DogBoy? Hypervoxel intensive? Radiosity? etc.. Granted my current scenes are simple since they're just test renders of a model im working on...

DogBoy
10-25-2005, 07:45 AM
Same here,

Elmar Moelzer
10-25-2005, 11:31 AM
Hey Lots, yes thats exactly what I meant, thanks for making my studdering a little more unerstandable :)
Sorry if I was not clear enough. I am glad some people are generally seeing some nice speed increase too though. I remember them doing some first tests and it was indeed faster in some scenes with the 64bit compiles, but it was considered to be a bit to inconsistent to be advertised to much.
I am still very excited about LW64bit and I am sooo looking foreward to testrender my Moonbase Alpha scene with a 64 bit machine that I am about to get here :I_Love_Ne
Oh and people that are workin in print will love 64bit too. You can render very large images from very large scenes now without any problems (of course you need the machine with enough Ram for that, 64bit without a matching machine does not gain you much).
CU
Elmar

DogBoy
10-25-2005, 12:40 PM
Elmar, yup, you're probably right. I'd not done a real comparison, so was easily pleased when it seemed faster :hey:.
For s**ts and giggles I'll try radiosity_BOX to see the results (I should have tried a benchmark scene before).

joshuaz
10-25-2005, 04:18 PM
I did a test on a scene that took 1m 43s in 32bit. 64 did 1m 37s. Not much. I then tried a frame that took 7m 23s in 32bit. It took 6m 29s in 64bit. Thats a 12% there so that isn't much either but i will take any speed increase i can get.

Seems the more math there is to do, the more you notice the speed.

RedBull
10-26-2005, 01:17 AM
I don't see why 64bit versions should be any faster than the 32bit version?
Just because it's 64 instead of 32, doesn't mean a 200% speed increase :)
The advantages for 64bits won't be realized for a few more years yet.

And remember that a small percentage of difference in rendertimes can be noticed if you have System Restore on for example.

mattclary
10-26-2005, 06:35 AM
12% is a pretty large increase, IMO.

nthused
10-26-2005, 06:39 AM
For me, the advantage of going to LW64 wasn't at all about speed - it was about memory - how detailed I could now make my scenes without running into the 2GB limit for the program. Any speed increase was icing on the cake.

xaxis8
10-26-2005, 10:46 AM
Hello:

I have a AMD FX-55 with 2 GB of RAM running under 32 OS. I am still waiting to get windows XP pro 64 to install. I still haven't upgrade to 8.5 yet and probably still going to wait till I get LW 9.

I know more RAM is always better. In addition to upgrading to windows 64 and installing 8.5 or 9, would it be best to get more RAM to see the 64bit increase? It seems there is very little increase of performance with 2 GB of RAM??

I do have many complex scenes I am working on now with 8.3. I will be keeping records on how long they load and render to compare to 8.5 or 9.

Just curious if I should get more RAM when I go 64 bit for good.

:stumped: Thanks

lots
10-26-2005, 12:12 PM
If you find your self needing more than 4GB of memory on average, then it would be well worth it. Running out of memory will kill your rendering performance.

EDIT: The advantage with the 64bit OS is you dont NEED more than 4GB instantly. Keep your setup the way it is. Load up scenes and see how they use up memory, if you feel you are running too low, add more.

Chances are though, if the scenes you have now are fine, they will still be fine on your 64bit OS. Switching to 64bit will just make the possibility of even more complex scenes (rendering in less passes for example as stated in NT's keynote at WinHEC where X64 was introduced). Meaning more geometry, more textures, more effects and higher quality shadows, etc. Anything that fills up memory. I'm not saying the complex scenes will be rendered faster, but just saying that the renderer will be able to actually render insted of crash ;)

Ozoka
10-27-2005, 01:06 AM
Well I have a dual intel xeon processor 3.6gh and 8gb of ram and there dosent seem to be a huge difference..I dont know maybe im crazy