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thinkerlex
10-23-2005, 12:37 PM
I'm working on a game mod as a skinner, and it takes a while to get the UVW maps off the models for us to paint, so the skinners are always waiting on new work. Most of the modeling team is using 3d Studio Max and Blender to create game objects. I've been using Lightwave since it was on the Amiaga, and I can really swim in it, so I figured I could do a few models from the sketches on the to do list myself and do my own UVW maps. This does not seem to be the case.

I cannot seem to find the tools I need to really unwrap a model in Lightwave, and there is little in the way of userguides as to how to skin an object for a game without resorting to old fashioned sphere, cylinder, and planar mapping... which will not migrate properly to what the rest of the team is using.

I saw some plug-ins in my search (http://www.respower.com/page_superuv) but they appear to really lack in documentation and tutorial support.

Am I missing something? Is there a tutorial I didn't find in my Google searches, or is Lightwave just lacking in the easy custom UV maps area?

pixelinfected
10-23-2005, 04:38 PM
on the newtek web there is just a tutorial to unwrap an obj for games using
check on tutorial part

CB_3D
10-23-2005, 04:46 PM
There´s Unfold3d. And then there+s a new tutorial on using Lightwaves own cloth fx to unfold a model, look for it at the spinquad forums (i think).

As to how to get the UVs across the programs, export the model as an OBJ file with the UV applied to the color channel with a placeholder image...or the final map, whatever. But to pass the UV along it has to be used.

Dodgy
10-23-2005, 07:39 PM
What do you mean easy custom maps? How do you make a map in the other packages? You can cut your object up into bits and map each part individually, then merge them back together... I find Uving in lw fairly straightforward...

mkiii
10-23-2005, 08:48 PM
Same here. I don't even bother splitting the thing into bits, just select the parts I want, and bring up the (oft missed) Texture Tool. People should get to know this handy little panel. it makes UV mapping a whole lot easier.

You can normally get away with a couple of planar maps, onto one UV, then select the various bits & move em about on the UV map jigsaw fashion.

gareee
10-24-2005, 08:07 AM
What texture tool? Under maps in modeler?

thinkerlex
10-24-2005, 10:32 AM
This is the video clip I saw that made me go looking for Lightwave's version of the same... http://download.autodesk.com/media/3dsmax/peltmap_max8_380k.mov


* NewTek admins, I'm not advertising Max here, I'm honestly asking if this is in Lightwave, if so where, and if not then why not.

Dodgy
10-24-2005, 11:24 AM
Why not.... That's like asking why can't YOU run the 100m in under 10 secs?

Considering that max only just got it with release 8, I would say that makes it a fairly recent development... Looks cool and LW doesn't have it yet :) Hopefully it will soon (I could sure do with it), but you could have a look at my UVrelax plugin and see if that helps any.

And do a search on www.flay.com in the plugin section to see if there's something there you can use :)

mkiii
10-24-2005, 12:52 PM
What texture tool? Under maps in modeler?

Yes. Under Texture/More

It's actually called Texture Guide BTW, I mentioned it because some people may not even know it's there, or that it has a numeric panel that allows much tinkering.

Castius
10-24-2005, 12:56 PM
I do alot of complexe UVs in an endomorph. This allows me to use the normal mesh smooth to relax complex areas.

UV mapping in LW has it's week points. But in many cases is can be very flexable and very fast. One problem is that many aspects of the proccess can be transparent which is good for speed but leads to the notion that it is lacking. For example many people don't know LW symmetry applies to the UV view as well. You just need to put your model over the U axis.
The biult in texture guild can use information from the surface editor. Open Texture guild then apply a image in the surface editor and hit automatic size. When you do this the values of the mapping in the image layer will transfer to the texture giuld.

ercaxus
10-24-2005, 09:40 PM
Does anyone use wings3d for uv mapping? I tried it and got not-so-bad results in very short time. Importing/exporting my lw objects as obj didn't give me any problems with uv maps.

I just watched that video of max uv mapping. Wings3d does it in a similar, though not so good and fancy, way. Also it's kinda buggy and sometimes extremely slow while uv mapping, but it's free to try and use.

ACLOBO
10-25-2005, 12:11 AM
Castius,

I wouldn't mind you putting together a little tutorial on this Texture guild tool. Normally, when I UV map, I use endomorphs or the latest clothFX tutorial to unfold my maps to be as flat as possible in the UV space. I have to admit that I have never used the texture guide and wouldn't mind seeing some more info on it. I guess I could just go and read the manual... lol.. However, i am wondering if the manual has sufficient info on this tool? Sounds interesting.

THere are a lot of tools in Lightwave that I haven't looked at. WHen I find that something works, I tend to stick with it, but if there are other avenues that are productive and interesting, I would love some more info. I guess I should have the texture guide tool a look.

-Adrian

blabberlicious
10-25-2005, 03:06 AM
Castius,

I wouldn't mind you putting together a little tutorial on this Texture guild tool. Normally, when I UV map, I use endomorphs or the latest clothFX tutorial to unfold my maps to be as flat as possible in the UV space. I have to admit that I have never used the texture guide and wouldn't mind seeing some more info on it. I guess I could just go and read the manual... lol.. However, i am wondering if the manual has sufficient info on this tool? Sounds interesting.



I would forget LW's texture guide and use Lynx3D Texture Guide II tool, which allows realtime mapping of UV's, inteactive seam placement/fixing, and lots more.

LW's texture guide is actually broken - try rotating the axis of projection and you'll see what I mean.

Do a search on Flay.

Cheers

mkiii
10-25-2005, 07:26 AM
Hmm... It seems to work fine for me, but then I always use the Numeric panel to do the rotating. Are you trying to use the gizmo, because that doesn't rotate well?

jeanphi
10-25-2005, 07:49 AM
Just have a look there. There are usefull tools.

http://lynx.aspect-design.de/plugins.htm

thinkerlex
10-28-2005, 11:12 AM
Wow, thanks for all the tips. I'll have a look at the plugins, flay.com looks deep, and I think I see why I was having trouble figuring out LightWave's UV mapping system.

I hope Lightwave gets something similar to what is in that video soon.

Stooch
10-29-2005, 11:18 AM
Why not.... That's like asking why can't YOU run the 100m in under 10 secs? :)

Sure, that wouldnt make sense, but lets keep it in context. Its like asking a track athlete. So why cant the track athlete run if thats his job? In this case, every other athlete can run circles around LW at this task. And thats the number 1 reason why im getting modo.

Dodgy
10-29-2005, 12:19 PM
I'm sure he could if he worked at it. But he can't do it RIGHT NOW because he hasn't been working at it. That was the parallel I was drawing. On the other hand, he could out model any athlete I'm betting, and likewise lightwave can run rings around other packages at other tasks :)

Just because Lightwave can't do something right now, there doesn't have to be a reason why it shouldn't in future. The guy was asking the question as if NT are willfully against unwrapping, which I'm sure is not the case. As soon as it can fit in their work schedules around other things, like the speeding up of the renderer, extracting the modelling core so we can model in Layout and so on, we'll see a lot more of these wish list tools. There's already tools out there for doing this sort of thing, and you can do it in LW in a round about kind of way, but if you want it in LW natively, you'll have to wait.

Stooch
10-29-2005, 04:37 PM
I'm sure he could if he worked at it. But he can't do it RIGHT NOW because he hasn't been working at it. That was the parallel I was drawing.

Sure, why is this athlete not working on it when all the other athletes did?



On the other hand, he could out model any athlete I'm betting, and likewise lightwave can run rings around other packages at other tasks :) .

Out model? I dont think so. And im being biased towards lightwave too. The number of tasks is shrinking rapidly. If it still in the positives.



There's already tools out there for doing this sort of thing, and you can do it in LW in a round about kind of way, but if you want it in LW natively, you'll have to wait.

Actually no one has to wait. There are so many choices out there that its a matter of switching. For example, right now i animate in messiah, soon i will be modeling in modo, so all that leaves for lightwave is rendering, and who knows how long that is going to last...

im keeping this pretty light hearted, not trying to start a war or anything. Just broadening the outlook if it was narrow.

:)

i know for me, alot is riding on that v9 update. IF its a dissapointment, im allready one foot out the door.

Dodgy
10-29-2005, 05:13 PM
Sure, why is this athlete not working on it when all the other athletes did?


Who ever said NT isn't working on it? It only just came out in max 8! Maya 7 is only just getting this! I was making the comparison that because just because someone can do something and you haven't, doesn't mean you can't, or that there is a specific reason that you haven't. If he wanted to run the 100m in 10 secs he could do it, it would just take TIME to get that particular ability. If someone has come out with function x, does that mean all the other packages HAVE to have it the next day? Or the same day?



Out model? I dont think so. And im being biased towards lightwave too. The number of tasks is shrinking rapidly. If it still in the positives.


I think he could quite easily out model AN ATHLETE, who has no training in modelling, but does have training in running very fast.


Actually no one has to wait. There are so many choices out there that its a matter of switching. For example, right now i animate in messiah, soon i will be modeling in modo, so all that leaves for lightwave is rendering, and who knows how long that is going to last...

Did you read what I said? I said There's already tools out there for doing this sort of thing, and you can do it in LW in a round about kind of way, but if you want it in LW natively, you'll have to wait.

So if you want this specific thing, unwrapping, go to your other package, I couldn't care less. If you want to do this in lw, either use a work around or get used to waiting, cause LW doesn't have this all packaged up neatly RIGHT NOW. Either way, asking why it isn't there RIGHT NOW is pointless.


im keeping this pretty light hearted, not trying to start a war or anything. Just broadening the outlook if it was narrow.

:)

I have no narrow outlook :) If I had a narrow outlook I wouldn't have 100's of plugins for LW, I'd be LW only, going hardcore! But I'm not crazy. There are lots of things that can be done better, **** I'm writing plugins myself to make it easier to do somethings. But I'm not going to complain that lw can't do something right now, I'm going to put in a feature request and hope it comes in. Otherwise I'll be using a tool that does do it or using a work around :)
<just don't mention the war! I did once, but I think I got away with it...>


i know for me, alot is riding on that v9 update. IF its a dissapointment, im allready one foot out the door.

Well that's your choice mate :) There's lots of tools out there, I know, I've used a bunch. But I'm happy not spending a whole bunch of money on stuff which I can do with Lightwave anyway. When that changes, then I'll change.

Stooch
10-30-2005, 11:06 PM
uh. yeaah.

You are right, who needs unwrapping tools. :rolleyes:

you took the whole athlete analogy where no athlete has gone before...

Karmacop
10-31-2005, 01:16 AM
I tihnk the point is that a lot of programs are only just getting this, an I'm sure Lightwave will have it soon. I think I emailed a feature request 6 months ago and they said they were looking into better UV tools back then, so I'm sure improvements aren't far off.

Is this going to make uv mapping faster? Sure it will. Is it an amazing tool that'll make uv mapping incredibly fast? No. Not even modo's example on the luxology front page is done right. If the only reason you want modo is for the uv mapping then you should have probably just downloaded Blender.

Dodgy
10-31-2005, 03:27 AM
uh. yeaah.

You are right, who needs unwrapping tools. :rolleyes:

you took the whole athlete analogy where no athlete has gone before...

Arrrgh! I never said ANYWHERE that they wouldn't be incredibly useful!
I swear you're doing this just to drive me bonkers :P

I surrender! Get my the cosy white coat... I give up.