View Full Version : Installer Madness

10-22-2005, 01:12 PM
Hi All,
I have waited several days before posting this, so I have calmed down, but I am still VERY angry.

Before installing 8.5 on my PC, I copied my 8.3 directory out, and everything under it. I then installed 8.5 over the old 8.3. 8.5 started OK.

However when I went to copy back the content, I discovered that for some unknown reason, it had not copied everything, and amongst the things that had not been saved was the content directory. So I have lost everthing from the last few months, (since my last full backup).

Now I accept that it was stupid of me not to check and double check that I had copied the files successfully. And I also accept that Newtek warn of this problem prominently.

What I don't understand is why on earth Newtek write an installer that knowingly destroys your content. I use the word destroy because it does not just delete it - if it was only deleted I could recover it from the wastebasket.

It's like a booby trap built into the installer.

I'm trying to be open minded here, so if there is any advantage I'd really like to hear about it.

But as it stands, I am firmly of the opinion that this feature is wanton stupidity, and that the installer goes out of its way to wipe your work from your hard drive.


PS - The Hub used to leave a trail of object files behind it as they passed from modeller to layout, but I can't find them now - anyone know if they can still be retrieved from anywhere under Windows XP? Or anywhere else I mind something useful?

10-22-2005, 01:38 PM
Sorry about your backup problems. It's too late now, but I always keep a separate directory of my stuff, including plugins and other bits and pieces, so any installs won't interfere with them. On the other hand, I've never experienced a problem with content directories being wiped by installs either, so this sounds very odd.

The hub saves temp objects in a directory called LWhub in your Temp directory, which is usually here:

C:\Documents and Settings\username\Local Settings\Temp

unless of course you've designated it somewhere else.

10-22-2005, 02:12 PM
Sounds to me like you MAY have had an error in windows copy. I have seen (very very rare) occasions where I attempted to transfer a directory from one location to another and it said it finished, but it never did, nor were the files that it missed still in the other directory.

I have also seen 1 occasion when I installed Dragon Naturally Speaking on a PC that it actually deleted the user files. An error had occured where it was backing up the files, the back up failed, and it erased the user speech files (I guess there is no error checking in the back up procedure).

Being that Newtek leases the installer, they have no control over how the installer does it's job. They just hope it does it job well (or I assume they hope that).

10-23-2005, 12:02 AM
I've found quite a lot of stuff in the hub working directory, thanks.

Surprised to here about content directories not being wiped though, so maybe I am making false assumptions here, and perhaps the installer does NOT do that?

The warnings about the need to do this are certainly fairly dire though, as seen at Newtek Europe:


I also remember I wanted to install v8 over a copy of V7 to try and avoid manually shufffling all the presets back into place and so forth. I was told that this was also not safe to do, (by Newtek Europe).


10-24-2005, 02:08 AM
Hi Starbase,

The warnings are there to protect ourselves, rather than any assumption that your content *will* be killed... :) Installing one version (v7.x over 6.x, or 8.x over 7.x, etc.) of LightWave over another is never recommended though...


10-24-2005, 06:36 AM
But like dodgy, i keep a folder of my work/presets/plugins and imagemaps in a separate folder (which is even on a separate drive) just incase everything decides to go kaput. It also much easier then to keep track of the plugins you have downloaded when they are in a directory called EXTRA PLUGINS (or something similar).

Glad to hear you managed to recover some of the work... it's devastating losing even a days work, let alone weeks.

10-24-2005, 06:49 AM
Thanks BV,
I accept that I probably messed up somewhere, (Or perhaps that nice Mr Gates has written some software that is not 100% reliable? :jester: )

But I do feel that the upgrade installers require a LOT more work.

It really put me off upgrading to a new version, even before this latest problem.

Thing is, if you move to a completely new directory, there's a mass of things you must do manually. There's all the presets to find and move, all your plugins to locate, copy over etc etc. The content copying is also a pain - not least because when copying the old to the new, you don't want to overwrite more recent versions of the free samples, (and over write none is NOT a windows option).

The obvious answer is to install over a copy of the old one, so that all the extra files are still in place, but we are advised not to do this. Is this something that is expected to fail, or just suggested on general principles, just in case?

This sort of manual file juggling is always going to be prone to error, (I find), and I strongly feel that a much more comprehensive installatioon routine is required, (and would greatly encourage people to upgrade).


10-24-2005, 07:09 AM
What I do is this (in these days of cheap storage) - just drag your whole LightWave folder to the same directory to get it duplicated and then rename it with the new version's name (rather than "copy of LightWave 8.3" name it "LightWave 8.5"). Then install to that directory.


10-25-2005, 12:02 AM
But if I understand correctly, isn't that what we are recommended NOT to do, i.e. installing one version over another?

10-25-2005, 02:57 AM
Hey Nick,

There's a difference between full version numbers (releases?) ie v6.x, v7.x, v8.x and incremental versions ie. v8.0, v8.0.1, v8.2, v8.2.1 etc.

Don't copy over full releases - do copy over incremental versions.


10-25-2005, 09:44 AM
Even so, it would be nice if the installer was a little more intelligent!

I've been bitten by the 'content removal' issue (before the installer warned you!) At the very least it should check the version you have installed and tell you when you are trying to attempt an invalid version combination upgrade!

10-25-2005, 02:24 PM
Unfortunately Installer Apps work differently on different machines. For instance, I am having problems installing Vue Infinite on my work PC but 0 problems when I install it on my home PC.

Apple's Itune's software for the IPod will install correctly on one pc while another very similar PC, it would put the Ipod in an entirely different directory then program the wrong ipod service to run.

10-25-2005, 02:54 PM

But I still think the installer should be seriously improved... It's a mess at the moment.

Hey Nick,

There's a difference between full version numbers (releases?) ie v6.x, v7.x, v8.x and incremental versions ie. v8.0, v8.0.1, v8.2, v8.2.1 etc.

Don't copy over full releases - do copy over incremental versions.