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View Full Version : strobing effect on rendered and dvd output.



nelsonm
05-06-2003, 01:03 PM
Hi you all,

I'm getting a strobe or field effect on the video where there is motion on the rendered TV2 outout file.

I used the "DV Video w/ Interleaved DV Audio" codec with resolution "NTSC D1 Video".

It is more appearent when i encode the rendered video and create a dvd of the video.

Ironicilly, if i record the same rendered file to dvcam tape first then recapture it on the computer i use to make dvd's and reencode and make a dvd, the problem goes away!

Is this a field order problem?

Has anyone seen anything like this before?

Nelson Maldonado

RomainR
05-06-2003, 05:30 PM
you should use the other DV codec that comes with T[2] or go and get the DV codec from Mainconcept.

ScorpioProd
05-06-2003, 09:14 PM
Yeah, it definately would be a field order problem, but I'm not sure why you're getting it.

First of all, there are two types of DV encoding that comes with Windows: Type 1 and Type 2.

Type 1 is what you used. It should be avoided.

Type 2 would be the DV encoder with uncompressed PCM audio. This can work, but the MS encoder for both of these is vastly inferior to the Main Concept encoder.

You should go to www.mainconcept.com and buy their DV encoder. Install that, be sure to go to its configuration and unselect the "fastest" checkbox in the encoder section. Fastest==crap. The MainConcept DV encoder is Type 2, which is what you want for Toaster use.

Try that and you should be fine. Your field order in TMPGEnc for DV source clips should be Bottom Field First (Field B). (If you happen to be using the TMPGEnc encoder.)

nelsonm
05-07-2003, 01:03 PM
Ok, i'll try this other product.

But let me give you the big picture.

1 - i captured the video off my dsr20 using Scenalyzer.
2 - edited using vt2 3890.
3 - rendered out both dv compressed and uncompressed avi files.
4 - transfered rendered files to canopus DVStorm2 system.
5 - used premiere 6.5 canopus mpeg plugin to create mpeg file.
6 - used DVDVirtuoso 2.8 to create the DVD.

Both DV type 1 and 2 produced the same problem.

I personally think the problem is either with the scenalyser capture or the field order in which a project is rendered using any codec in VT2.

Does VT2 let you change the field order of rendered files?

Dan Hong
05-07-2003, 02:07 PM
Does your project look right playing back out of ToasterEdit? If so, I think the capture problem is nixed. How are you getting the files into the Canopus system? File copies? If they are separate systems (2 computers), have you tried to capture the uncompressed output of the Toaster into the Canopus?
Just some thoughts.

nelsonm
05-07-2003, 04:51 PM
Hi,

Yes, they are two systems.

Yes the VT2 output looks fine on both tvision and an external monitor as does the rendered dv file that i loaded back into ted, although once i played the rendered file through ted for my wife to see and it excibited the same problem as the dvd.

I tried feeding the ted output directly to the canopus system using both stormvideo and mediacruse thru analog and firewire to capture a avi and a mpeg2 file.

I even tried rendering the VT2 rendered file in premiere 6.5 then routing the video through firewire through my dsr20 then out to the canopus system via analog output of the dsr20.

I also tried copying the rendered VT2 file to the canopus system then use premiere to create the mpeg2 file.


The only way i have been able to produce a good dvd is to record the VT2 ted output to a dvcam tape on my drs20 then connection the dsr20 to the canopus system to capture the video either as an avi file through stormvideo then convert to mpeg2 though premiere or as an mpeg2 file using mediacruse.

there are no problems when i start and finish on the canopus system. It just takes a lot longer and i have to put up with premiere's usual quirks.

Dan Hong
05-07-2003, 08:14 PM
We (and many others) have had great success using the Tsunami MPEG encoder (TMpegEnc). It accepts the .rtv directly and does a fantasic job of encoding. Since you don't have to compress the file as a DV or AVI first, the mpeg2 that you get comes directly off of the uncompressed RTV file, which means that a) you get a much cleaner picture and b) since the original is uncompressed, the mpeg takes a lot less time to encode. The software is available for a demo and the full version is $50.

One last try at the Canopus...have you tried to push the DV file off of the Toaster firewire using DVapp?

ScorpioProd
05-07-2003, 08:34 PM
Yeah, I'm not clear why you're putting it into the Canopus system at all.

AFAIK, the proprietary Canopus codec based system will NOT play industry-standard DV files properly.

Perhaps this is what you have hit?

nelsonm
05-08-2003, 10:12 AM
Hi,

To Eugene,
I transfer the edited material for dvd authoring to the canopus system because it has the mpeg2 encoder, dvd authoring program and dvd burner on it. It was my original system.

To Dan,
No, i have not yet tried DVapp to transfer the rendered dv file to the canopus system via firewire.

I guess i should consider setting up my VT2 for DVD authoring and burning. Not the least of which to eliminate the extra conversion and transfer time.

Is the Tsunami MPEG encoder the only and best mpeg2 solution for the VT2?

Scott Bates
05-08-2003, 11:16 AM
Is the Tsunami MPEG encoder the only and best mpeg2 solution for the VT2?
It's totally independent of T2 (or any other NLE), and while it's not the only software solution, it is widely acknowledged as being at least one of the best encoders in it's price range. For what it does and the quality it produces it's an absolute steal at the price.

ScorpioProd
05-08-2003, 11:47 AM
Not only do I feel TMPGEnc is the best MPEG encoder out there, but the simple fact that it will be the only MPEG encoder with direct plug-in support in VT[3] says a lot, too.

Not to mention that it already supports RTV clips with a plug-in right now.

edmellnik
05-09-2003, 03:53 PM
Eugene,
How do you get MPEG 2 with 486 files and TMPGE?
TMPGE seems to want only 480 files.

ed

Scott Bates
05-09-2003, 05:55 PM
I'm not Eugene, but you need to use Kirk Monger's RTV plugin for TMPGEnc available at Faraz' ToasterSupport site (http://www.toastersupport.com/nukenew/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=17). Just feed TMPGEnc a RTV file and it's corresponding .wav audio file and Kirk's plugin does whatever magic is needed.

edmellnik
05-09-2003, 06:30 PM
Yes I am using the plug in and when I use a 486 file I get an error message from TMPGE. If I re-encode to 480 everything is great.
ed

Scott Bates
05-09-2003, 09:02 PM
OK, you got me stumped Ed. I've looked through all the TMPGEnc settings and can't see anything obvious. Yes, the settings I use say 720x480, but it accepts 720x486 with no problems. I seem to remember Kirk went through a couple versions of the plugin, but don't remember if it was to address a problem like this. I wonder if maybe you've got an older version? Have you previously used 486 RTVs with no problems or have you always gotten the error? I'm sure Eugene will catch up with this thread eventually and probably has an answer neither of us is seeing.

nelsonm
05-09-2003, 10:46 PM
Hi you all,

Ok, i tried tmpgemc - it does the trick!

I converted a short file in both field A and B order and ran it through DVDVirtuoso on the canopus system. The visual test confirmed that the correct field was B.

The only conclusion i have is that the field order of the file given to the canopus encoder from the VT2 was incorrect or was changed somhow.

Either way, VT3 should make the idea of a VT3 ted tmpgemc plugin unnecessary since it and other programs can make use of the avi wraped edited ted projects.

edmellnik
05-10-2003, 11:54 AM
I cant remember where to find that plug in...
I want to check the version with the one I have to see it I have an older version.
Ed

Scott Bates
05-10-2003, 02:49 PM
Go here (http://www.toastersupport.com/nukenew/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=17) Ed, the same link I gave you a couple posts back. Hope it is a newer version than the one you have since it should solve you're problems.

ScorpioProd
05-10-2003, 05:23 PM
Hmmh... Don't know what to tell you. Depending on what I'm doing I've used 480i or 486i RTV clips with TMPGenc via Kirk's plug-in and they both work fine. The plug-in takes care of converting to 480i for TMPGEnc.

What exact version of TMPGEnc and the RTV plug-in are you using?