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Dirk
10-12-2005, 04:58 AM
81% / 87% rating, that's huge

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/serenity/

"I can't believe I am saying this, but I think Serenity could be the new Star Wars."
Willie Waffle, WAFFLEMOVIES.COM

One of the reviewers compared it to "The Empire Strikes Back", another wrote it'S like the last three "Star Wars" Movies should have been...

:lightwave (and Joss Whedon, too)

Bog
10-12-2005, 06:05 AM
Top Ten Ways Firefly is Better Than Star Wars

10. Whedon can write snappy dialogue. To Lucas snappy dialogue consists of talking about how a chick's skin isn't as rough as sand.

9. Belly dancers in the Firefly 'verse are not green. With tentacles.

8. Reavers are way scarier than a bratty adolescent who whines that Obi-Wan never lets him do anything.

7. River could kill Anakin with her brain.

6. Kaylee is a better engineer than Chewie. Cuter, too.

5. Women are respected in the Firefly 'verse. If Anakin tried to paw Zoey like he did Padme, he'd end up in the Vader suit a lot sooner...losing his other human arm in the process.

4. Serenity can do a Crazy Ivan. Let's see the Millenium Falcon do that.

3. There are no Ewoks in the Firefly 'verse. And never will be. Ever.

2. There are no whores in the Star Wars Universe. And never will be. Ever.

And the Number One Reason Why Firefly is Better Than Star Wars:

1. Mal Reynolds ALWAYS gets to shoot first.

Serenity totally kicked me up and down the field. It's a film that could just have been written with things I'd get kicks out of in mind.

Brilliant.

Dodgy
10-12-2005, 06:08 AM
It was really really good... Shame about the box office :P

Bog
10-12-2005, 06:10 AM
Shame about the box office

Wierd that, I've seen some numbers that say it's doing really well, and some numbers that say it's tanking.

I hope it's doing really well, because I really want more.

digital verve
10-12-2005, 07:43 AM
It's top of the British box office but seems to sunk at the US. Maybe it will rise up once good word of mouth spreads. :)

Or maybe it will be another Blade Runner, getting great recognition years later?

Bog
10-12-2005, 07:46 AM
Or maybe it will be another Blade Runner, getting great recognition years later?

Gawd, I hope not. It's a cracking film, absolutely brilliant - driven by truly engaging characters which are really well defined, and stunningly beautiful as well. For it to become an "underground cult success" would be quite sad.

Here's hoping it picks up again.

Dodgy
10-12-2005, 08:55 AM
The most in depth report said it's drop off had been better than expected. However since it only made $10 mill it's opening weekend, that's not the greatest figure :P Hopefully it'll do better overseas. Certainly here in the UK it went straight in at no.1, so it'll do better than it's $40 million budget, and maybe with dvd release actually make it profitable enough for a second round... Lotta ifs though..

Dirk
10-12-2005, 09:00 AM
Well, the whole Movie came somewhat out of the blue. AFAIK, no marketing at all.

Wonderpup
10-12-2005, 09:46 AM
As someone who thought the series was the nearest thing to perfect I'd ever seen on TV, I came away from the film feeling really depressed. Not with the visuals- the production values were fantastic, but with the one aspect I'd been totaly confident about going in- characterisation and plot. None of these charecters seemed to even like each other very much- indeed, they seemed almost to be parodys of the warm, richly realised people I come to like so much in the series. The demistifaction of river was wasteful, I think- just another trinity clone after all.

And then, of course. the 'big shock'. I never thought Joss Wheedon would make this error- his gift has always been to give the audience what they wanted, in a way they did not expect. Here he has reversed that knack- he has given us something we did not want in way that was trite and predictable, and again wasteful. Not what I wanted to see.

BazC
10-12-2005, 09:57 AM
As someone who thought the series was the nearest thing to perfect I'd ever seen on TV, I came away from the film feeling really depressed. Not with the visuals- the production values were fantastic, but with the one aspect I'd been totaly confident about going in- characterisation and plot. None of these charecters seemed to even like each other very much- indeed, they seemed almost to be parodys of the warm, richly realised people I come to like so much in the series. The demistifaction of river was wasteful, I think- just another trinity clone after all.

And then, of course. the 'big shock'. I never thought Joss Wheedon would make this error- his gift has always been to give the audience what they wanted, in a way they did not expect. Here he has reversed that knack- he has given us something we did not want in way that was trite and predictable, and again wasteful. Not what I wanted to see.

I have to agree, I just saw it this afternoon and though it's a great film "the big shock" was clumsy and wasteful, the slightly smaller shock even more wasteful. Pity, I enjoyed it though.

Bog
10-12-2005, 10:06 AM
Really? Darn!

I really enjoyed it.

Riplakish
10-12-2005, 10:31 AM
Wierd that, I've seen some numbers that say it's doing really well, and some numbers that say it's tanking.

I hope it's doing really well, because I really want more.

It does a great job of telling a story, and the characters are believable enough that you buy in to their existance (take notes, Hollywood).

For US audiences that are used to disconnecting their brain on the way in to the theater, it will be "too confusing".

For other audiences, it will be an awesome movie.

With a little work (which may have already been done), Firefly/Serenity really could have/can complete with the likes of B5 in terms of character depth, good story telling, and complex plotlines.

Nigel Baker
10-12-2005, 10:31 AM
Hello All,

All I can really say is that it is great.
Looking forward to seeing it again next week.

Also looking forward to getting my DVD's back from my friends so I can re-watch the old TV episope.

Very sad to see ... woops nearly did a bad thing there. . .

Well worth… go see it, even if you don't like science fiction or westerns.

MiniFireDragon
10-12-2005, 10:42 AM
***SPOIL ALERT***
Highlight the white spacebelow
Movies usually tank when they kill/lose a hero. "Like a leaf on the wind...ehhhhh"
***END SPOIL ALERT***

Seen it time and time again. The audience hates it and the ratings are the audience.

colkai
10-12-2005, 12:25 PM
Personally, I loved it, so did the wife and everyone I've talked to.
Promisingly, the theatre mid-week wasn't full, but was as good, if not better than most of the latest blockbusters in terms of attendance. More importantly, it was playing on one of the bigger theatres too. I really hope they get to do the sequels!
As to the de-mystification of River, had the series continued, she would have been de-mystified, I actually like the new dynamic between her and Mal, which was hinted at in "Objects In Space" on the DVDs.
As Jayne may put it .. it was a gorram shiny film! :)

Let's hope the fall-off over here in the UK isn't too bad - that'll bolster the dollar value something fierce!
EDIT.. If the current UK figures are to be believed .. £1.1 milllion, that equates to about $1.9 million - none too shabby. ..EDITED .. my bad - dunno where I got that figure from! Either way - better than any other film out there - even ones getting over-hyped.

Celshader
10-12-2005, 12:41 PM
Seen it time and time again. The audience hates it and the ratings are the audience.

Not always...Star Wars and Lion King and Fellowship of the Ring did the exact same thing, and they raked in tons of box office.

I enjoyed Serenity -- a nice end to a nice series.

DragonFist
10-12-2005, 01:04 PM
***SPOIL ALERT***
Highlight the white spacebelow
Movies usually tank when they kill/lose a hero. "Like a leaf on the wind...ehhhhh"
***END SPOIL ALERT***

Seen it time and time again. The audience hates it and the ratings are the audience.

I am "audience" and I loved it. The very fact that they were willing to do "that" helped it NOT tank for me.

But it is a lie to say that the audience hates it. Maybe YOU hate it, but that is not "the audience".

MiniFireDragon
10-12-2005, 01:18 PM
Garrr.. I ment it as a generalization in terms of audiences. Next time I will use MAJORITY! Maybe it will make the literals happy.

Compare movies of similar ending and see how well they did at the box office.

Celshader
10-12-2005, 01:23 PM
Compare movies of similar ending and see how well they did at the box office.

Matrix Revolutions treated its heroes far more harshly then Serenity, but it did well worldwide (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=matrixrevolutions.htm). The successful Aliens and Predator films also showed no mercy to some of their coolest characters.

Maybe Serenity didn't go far enough with its ending. ;)

inquisitive
10-12-2005, 02:32 PM
I have not seen it but the trailer dialog sounds a little cheesy.
Graphics looked cool on the trailer though..

in the mean time have at it.. cool website.

http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/2005/FRFLY.php

Bog
10-12-2005, 05:03 PM
I have not seen it but the trailer dialog sounds a little cheesy.

Do yourself a favour. Watch the ruttin' movie ;)

Celshader
10-12-2005, 05:13 PM
I have not seen it but the trailer dialog sounds a little cheesy.[/url]

View the first nine minutes of the film here:
http://video.vividas.com/CDN1/3929_Serenity/web/index.html

Fasty
10-12-2005, 06:37 PM
Well I saw it last night and I don't want to rain on anybody's parade but I found it pretty mediocre all round - the acting, plot, direction, action scenes and special effects, although there were some nice environments. But then again I've never seen the series (it's never been shown in Australia that I'm aware of) and I couldn't care or less who the director is.

DragonFist
10-12-2005, 07:06 PM
Ah well, guess I'll just have to deal with it. Most of my favorite movies of all time are seen by others and they "just don't get it". Highlander, Momento, Equilibrium, Fight Club, Vanilla Sky, etc., etc. I have friends that love them but most just go, "Huh?" or, "Well, I guess it was okay but there was no story."

I tend to wonder if we saw the same film. Maybe I am in the minority but I found Serenity to be a very well written film. I won't argue that "Gone with the Wind" had better acting but I would rather watch Serenity to be honest. I am now watching the series which I had not done so before watching it and my wife is like "that's nice, dear." But I love it. I hope that it gains some mainstream audience just so that I can continue my enjoyment of it (profits = more movies) but unfortunately, Babewatch lasted longer that Firefly and Murder She Wrote is considered good writting by some while Something like Serenity gets adjectives like "mediocre".

Surrealist.
10-12-2005, 10:49 PM
Interesting. Thanks for the link Jen. Had a sense of 12 Monkeys in the pacing and writing so far.

Directing was not consistant nor the acting - egg or chicken take your pick but interesting juist the same. :)

richdj
10-13-2005, 12:19 AM
Do yourself a favour. Watch the ruttin' movie ;)

:agree: OK, firstly, everyone should see it to make their own minds up (with more people going and seeing it they'll make a 2nd).... Personally, I thought this movie :rock: But hey, thats just me....

I really like the series, but didn't get into it until it was near the end of it's run on scifi channel, but now I want more....

Rich

Karmacop
10-13-2005, 01:47 AM
The successful Aliens and Predator films also showed no mercy to some of their coolest characters.

I still don't know how Alien vs Predator made money ... :p

T-Light
10-13-2005, 07:14 PM
Went with the girlfriend to see it this afternoon, have to say it didn't dissapoint and we'll be buying the DVD when it's released. Sadly though, we were the only people in the cinema (4:40 showing).

ps As the film was nearing a close just couldn't get the over the feeling that Joss Weedon was going to go totally 'Blakes Seven'.
Was that just me or was anyone else thinking the same:question:

DragonFist
10-13-2005, 11:23 PM
Assuming that I understand you right, yes, I felt the same. It is part of what I liked. You really get worried for the characters because....

DiscoBurgess
10-14-2005, 01:38 AM
Finally saw it yesterday, and I must say, it was brilliant. I wasn't really sure what to expect, and didn't go into it with any real expectations. Maybe that's why I enjoyed it so much. It's so refreshing to see a piece of sci-fi at the cinema that isn't an all-action blockbuster, and has a genuine stroke of originality, and some serious heart in it.

T-Light
10-14-2005, 01:45 AM
Dragonfist-

Assuming that I understand you right, yes
Yes, you understand me right :thumbsup:

Red_Oddity
10-14-2005, 03:58 AM
Well, i just started watching the series (as far as i know it never aired in the Netherlands, nor is the DVD available, so i had to take somewhat 'illegal' measures :tsktsk: ), but dang, why was this cancelled?
I love it, i first had my doubts with the whole western sci-fi mixed theme, but the characters are so likable (there is a certain chemistry between the cast that is missing in too many other series), not mention, the effects are very slick for a series that is almost 4 years old.
I am so gonna import this DVD and watch this in theathers when it comes here (have to wait another month for it)

BeeVee
10-14-2005, 04:43 AM
For anyone in Europe who wants DVDs, can I reall recommend Play247? They do free delivery to anywhere in Europe, although you will be buying UK versions of DVDs - something to watch out for if you want a specific dubbing or subtitling. Here's Firefly:
http://www.play.com/play247.asp?page=title&r=R2&title=150418&searchtype=genre&id=0&p=57&g=72&adudisc=y&who=&cpage=1&pa=cart&Cur=258

B

Red_Oddity
10-14-2005, 08:44 AM
Yup, that's where i also found it...
UK releases have more reasons to watch out for, i bought Cutthroat Island for example, and the UK edition is some sort of re-edited (read, literally cut out pieces of action/violence with no thought on continuity or editting eastatics) version, which makes it totally unwatchable (half way through the movie i stopped watching, as i was at a point of almost ripping the DVD out of the player and snapping it in half)

Anyhoo, definatly gonna order this...

Nemoid
10-14-2005, 09:41 AM
My thumbs up on the first 9 mins of the movie. it seriously looks appealing!! i have seen only video because no speakers here but i'll rewatch it at home LOL. :thumbsup:

edit : well. with sound is even better!! this movie entrigues me. :rock:

ThriJ
10-15-2005, 02:02 PM
Basically you have to look at this movie from two points of view. If you see this movie having never seen the series then you are going to see some great Science Fiction. The story is excellent, the movie actually has something to say and the effects are of course what you should expect considering the main program that was used. :D :lwicon: If you enjoy Science Fiction on a space adventure scale like the kind depicted in many novels then you will really like this movie and you probably should then get the series too. Now for someone like me who was introduced to the Firefly world from TV or the DVDs then there is more to say.

One thing I noticed is that the characters had been reverted back to the conflicting state they were in at the beginning of the series without the growth that you have seen by series end. And then by the end of the movie the character growth is back. This works well if you pretend the series never happened but otherwise it is a little hard to swallow. I did like that Joss the creator was finally able to portray Mel more as the hardened tormented soul in the movie in a way that FOX did not allow in the series. I also have to say River is a great deal more active in the movie then she ever was on the show. At first you think everything is reviled about River in the movie, but really you only see what one part of the alliance wanted out of her and not what Blue Sun’s real agenda is. It is strange that in the series Simon never really knows what they did to River but in the movie a moron seemed to have given him the grand tour. The only real mystery uncovered in the movie involves…. you will know.

The whole movie has a darker feel then the series kind of like episode [War Stories] and the movie deals with the Alliance and Reavers a lot so it kind of feels like [Ariel] and [Bush Whacked] put together. The movie may have changed the Firefly world some to work with newcomers and the movie format but I think most of the character changes can fit with the series if you accept that things got really crappy for the Serenity crew in the months that followed between the end of the show and the events that unfold in the movie.


Now that serenity has introduced the firefly world to the movie genre I hope it pulls back to the theme of the show as things may conclude in following movies.

:yoda: As far as the Firefly vs. StarWars thing goes I still believe the original StarWars is still better then Serenity however I think Serenity beats the new StarWars movies flat out, but that’s just how it is for me I know everyone has there own opinion about this. Plus this can not be a fair comparison until there are two more Firefly movies, ;) you have to remember what happened to the matrix films when it comes to this, and again I know opinions differ. So all and all for me Serenity get a :thumbsup: however if I had to say which has more story the show or the movie I would have to say the show even with the occasional cheesy moments. Although I admit that I had high expectations for the movie and I had zero if not negative expectations when I set down to watch the first show when it came on FOX, I suppose it is easier to be blown away when something completely catches you off guard.

Bog
10-15-2005, 07:16 PM
Massive gorram spoiler to lay while you're sayin' you're not layin' a spoiler, feller.

Really. Edit that, now, please.

colkai
10-16-2005, 02:44 AM
Massive gorram spoiler to lay while you're sayin' you're not layin' a spoiler, feller.
Really. Edit that, now, please.
Quoted for agreement.
Anyway, it seems the film was total rubbish if you believe certain folks on certain forums. ;) S'all I'm gonna say on that matter. :devil:
I disagree about the characters losing their growth from the series, the point was, this is about a year after the series and things have gone B over A, making Mal darker and more of a PITA.
The only thing I did grate was the fact that Mal had said that Simon and River were crew at the end of the series, but here he says otherwise. Then again, Mal bein' Mal, he changes the rules as he sees fit, which I think the line about him saying that only if he decides it, they are part of his team, but that is as and when. Underneath that though, I think he always had a soft spot for River, thus the line to Book about "having an out" but not taking it.

Interestingly, I never realised they used a minature model for Serenity in some shots rather than CGI until i read the VFX article. - Cool integration.

Bog
10-16-2005, 05:35 AM
Interestingly, I never realised they used a minature model for Serenity in some shots rather than CGI until i read the VFX article. - Cool integration.

Mmm. Jolly good stuff - and at the time I was too busy murmering "no, no, no, no, nooooooo!" to myself to particularly nitpick on effects.

Darn good movie. Want more. Or a new series. Whatever gives me more time in that universe.

Except, y'know, a really lousy game licence. That would be upsetting.

colkai
10-16-2005, 06:46 AM
Oh dear, I dunno how to say this, but I'm sure I've heard rumors of a Firefly game already. Hope I'm wrong. ;)

Bog
10-16-2005, 07:48 AM
Oh dear, I dunno how to say this, but I'm sure I've heard rumors of a Firefly game already. Hope I'm wrong.

"It's worse than you know."

"It usually is."

:2guns:

colkai
10-16-2005, 08:54 AM
:p ..and here's us, on the raggedy edge, in the middle of no and where. ;)

iFX
10-17-2005, 02:03 AM
"It's worse than you know."

"It usually is."

:2guns:

Oh I don't know... I really liked the old Wing Commander games... specially Privateer - though that was a long time ago ;)
(even Privateer 2 wasn't too bad, though lost a lot of the original's sense of being in a truly huge universe in favour of better graphics and video)

Haven't had much time for games in years though... but if it's done well - could be a good thing... but maybe that's a big "if" if graphics are the main thing that matters in games now... though not having played them for so long, what do I know?? ;)

I find it's usually a lot worse the other way around - ie game -> movie
Probably all comes down to whether the game is purely just trying to cash in on the movie or whether they want to make a good game because they have a good story to base it on.

ThriJ
10-17-2005, 03:37 PM
Yeah, sorry about that. :bangwall: It should have donned on me that even without the how, why, where, who, when info it was still a concept that many may not want to know before viewing. Anyway I removed that part.






Anyway, it seems the film was total rubbish if you believe certain folks on certain forums. ;) S'all I'm gonna say on that matter. :devil:
I disagree about the characters losing their growth from the series, the point was, this is about a year after the series and things have gone B over A, making Mal darker and more of a PITA.


Well like I said it works if you take into account that things got crappy for the crew between series and movie. I know what you are saying about bashing the film. I was just holding it up to high standards and those were the things that bothered me, but over all it is a magnificent film. :thumbsup:

LyonHaert
10-17-2005, 05:18 PM
Well, there's a few other factors pertaining to differences between the movie and the series.

One is the amount of time in which you're able to tell the story, and just how much story you want to tell. Whedon needed to wrap up some major things that the series would eventually have wrapped up, but in a shorter amount of time. I noticed this when the general pacing of the movie was a lot faster than that of the series.

Which, btw, I first saw the series on Fox (even with certain episodes being out of order; ie, the 2-hour pilot was actually last), and then bought the DVDs when they came out.

So since he was dealing with a movie now, he had to do it in such a way that you didn't have to see the series first for the movie to make sense.

Incidentally, this is why Farscape was dropped by Sci-Fi. The story became so thick and juicy that you had see every episode or things wouldn't make sense. It was also why I really loved that last season. And finally they were able to wrap up the major plot elements in the miniseries. Things tend to seem a little more rushed, or things just coming out of nowhere instead of developing at a more believable pace.

Anyway, for it work well enough with virgin audiences, you still have to have character development, otherwise they'll be too flat in the movie alone. Not for those who saw the series, who could assume it picks up where it left off. But that just won't work, so he had to come up with a reason to revert them back a little bit. On the downside, all the history and previous character development and their relationships with each other can't start off at status quo like they could in the series. Especially the romantic tensions: Mal & Inara, Simon & Kaylee, and even Zoey & Wash ("War Stories"). Especially Mal & Inara. Brilliant writing on that tangle through the whole series.

Anyway, that lack of the character development in the movie (audiences not really understanding where they've already been and who they already are at the beginning of the movie) could be what's choking it in the US. It seems a lot of people over here don't even understand what stop signs mean.

As far as the two 'shocks' people keep mentioning, I find no fault with them. Yes, with "I'm a leaf on the wind", it is saddening, but that's the point! A lot of people like Empire Strikes Back the most out of the original SW trilogy. Why? Because it's a greek tragedy! Bad things happened, but you knew that the story wasn't over. That's what sucks you in even more, when you can identify with the characters' suffering and you know that this isn't the final chapter of the story.

The other shock (the major plot point one) was brilliant. I was pretty much floored by it. And it's pretty hard to floor me like that where my jaw literally drops. Only one other story has done that in the past few years (the ending of Butterfly Effect).

For those craving all-things-Firefly, I believe there is a Firefly comic book series with 3 issues (but only those 3).

colkai
10-18-2005, 03:38 AM
Aye, but you try finding those comics, they are gold dust.
Hopefully they will re-issue them, I need 'em gorram it! ;)

DragonFist
10-22-2005, 08:52 PM
Saw Serenity again tonight. Since seeing it, I got the series and have been watching it. My son (11 yrs old) watched it too and started begging me to see the film. So I brought him tonight and brought my 70 yr old Mom as well.

They both loved it. Son got a little upset when you know what happened. Talked about it the whole trip back. Loved the whole thing, had the theory that Mal was coming close to becoming a Reaver after what happened at Haven.

Anyhow, what was really cool was that the theater was packed to the walls. Didn't expect that this late in the running but it was. Hope it pulls off a slow but long run in the theaters. That would be good.