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Kurtis
10-10-2005, 11:28 AM
NewTek Releases Fifth Free Feature Update for LightWave 3D® OpenGL 2.0 Hardware Support, Multishift(TM) tool with Editable History, and Full Support for Windows XP Pro x64 Among Improvements in Release 8.5

NewTek is pleased to announce the release of the fifth free update and the 64-bit port for Emmy® award-winning LightWave 3D®. Version 8.5 offers hardware support of OpenGL 2.0, the new Multishift(TM) tool with editable history, Photoshop-style texture blending modes, improved dynamics, and easier integration of third-party file formats. The 64-bit port of LightWave 3D for Windows XP Pro x64 OS, is also being made available as part of the release of the version 8.5 update. LightWave®'s 64-bit version leverages the increased memory available with 64-bit systems plus the power of the new processors and faster RAM access to provide digital artists with a streamlined workflow that allows them greater flexibility and creative freedom. LightWave version 8.5 update is now available free to registered owners of LightWave [8].

For the complete text of the press release visit:
http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/10-10-05a.html

For more information or to purchase, visit:
http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/index.php

lots
10-10-2005, 11:47 AM
Question: Is the 64bit update available for download? Or do I HAVE to order the CD? All I see on the site is a WinXP/2000 installer...

This makes me think I have to order the CD...

LightWave 64 is available to registered LightWave [8] owners at no charge other than the cost of materials and shipping for the required LightWave v8.5 installer CD, $29.95 plus shipping and handling.

Which means more waiting :( And money to boot :P

gjjackson
10-10-2005, 11:53 AM
The file inside the zip says Win32. I, too, am disappointed. I was looking more forward to the 64bit version.

shandaman
10-10-2005, 11:58 AM
I just called newtek there is a 8.5 patch comming out today he said it was out but i cant find it on the site.

lots
10-10-2005, 12:22 PM
It's on the download site, very top...

Chuck
10-10-2005, 12:22 PM
The 64-bit edition requires a complete installation, as all executable files are involved. We post updates for download, but not complete installations. LightWave 64 is available to registered LightWave [8] owners on the new LightWave v8.5 install CD, $29.95 plus shipping and handling.

gjjackson
10-10-2005, 12:23 PM
Just go to the main Newtek site and follow the links for the 8.5 update.

gjjackson
10-10-2005, 12:25 PM
Thanks Chuck, put in the order. I couldn't find that update on the online orders page at first.

shandaman
10-10-2005, 12:26 PM
so to get the 8.5 64 bit version i have to pay another 30$?

lots
10-10-2005, 12:30 PM
It is for the shipping and everything, plus materials.. Which makes sense to me. It's too bad its not a downloadable package though :/ I understand the security reasons I suppose, but still :)

I suppose I could always run it in 32bit until I get my free 9 upgrade... I dont know. I'd like to play with the 64bit stuff..

hunter
10-10-2005, 12:30 PM
Yeah. I thought we've been told all along the 64 bit would be FREE to current owners. :argue:

gjjackson
10-10-2005, 12:36 PM
I'm not complaining. It's essentially free. You're not paying $495 or such. Actually it comes to $40.


Chuck, forgot to ask. The page says minimum is ATI9600. I think I have a 9600. Also there are issues with OpenGL 2.0 and ATI. Does the 9600 have isseus then, since it is the minimum. If so, do you have any indication when the issues will be resolved. I need to find out whether or not to change my video card, again. I had to change the video card to work with the 64bit OS and found this one. I sure'd hate to have to get Another one.

hunter
10-10-2005, 12:44 PM
$40 is $40. Not Free. Did Cinema charge their customers for 64 bit? or XSI. I don't know. Chuck, Do those of us who ordered 9 have to pay $40 bucks to get 64 bit when it ships? Just wondering. Usually I believe in Newtek, but all along it was free and, nope it's $40, Gotcha. Also "LW is first with 64 bit" and... Nope. Others beat ya to it. Seems to me you should at least keep your word on the free part. Right from your own press release...

Los Angeles, CA – SIGGRAPH 2005 Booth #1529 – August 1, 2005 -- NewTek, Inc., manufacturer of industry-leading 3D animation and video products, today announced the release of the 64-bit port of the Emmy®-winning LightWave 3D® for Windows XP Pro x64 OS, as part of the release of the version 8.5 update. LightWave® 64 and the version 8.5 update are free to registered owners of LightWave [8]. LightWave's 64-bit version leverages the increased memory available with 64-bit systems plus the power of the new processors and faster RAM access to provide digital artists with a streamlined workflow that allows them greater flexibility and creative freedom.

And the link http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/08-01-05b.html

Chuck
10-10-2005, 01:04 PM
LightWave 64 will be a standard part of the installer CDs from now on. The Convenience Upgrade is the new LightWave v8.5 install CD. That's the Programs CD new purchasers will receive with their packages; similarly when the 9.0 install CD comes out, LightWave 64 will be on the install CD set. If you have ordered LW v9 and want LightWave 64, but do not want to purchase the new 8.5 install CD, you will receive it as part of the install set for the 9.0 upgrade.

hunter
10-10-2005, 01:08 PM
So if I hadn't bought 9 it wouldn't be free would it? You should stick to what you say instead of sounding like politicians. And I mean you as in NT not you personally.

lots
10-10-2005, 01:08 PM
I'm not really complaining here, I just wanted clearification. I had already talked to a sales person about the 9.0 upgrade being 64bit a few weeks ago and gotten confirmation. I guess its just $40, I just wont have lunch for a few days ;) Or I could wait and see what everyone else thinks :) 'Cuz I'm sure whatever bugs pop up in 8.5 will be addressed in 9 (ideally :P)

Panikos
10-10-2005, 01:14 PM
I want to be fair, so ...

I am happy that Newtek Europe Downloading was fast and easy :thumbsup:

As far as the content, considering the great effort behind, I am very excited

Congratulations :newtek:

hunter
10-10-2005, 01:21 PM
I'm not really complaining here, I just wanted clearification. I had already talked to a sales person about the 9.0 upgrade being 64bit a few weeks ago and gotten confirmation. I guess its just $40, I just wont have lunch for a few days ;) Or I could wait and see what everyone else thinks :) 'Cuz I'm sure whatever bugs pop up in 8.5 will be addressed in 9 (ideally :P)

No, I thinnk if you PAID for your upgrade to 9 you'll get the 64bit when it ships. I'm just disappointed for 8 owners who were promised 64bit free and now they have to pay. Seems kinda cheesy.

lots
10-10-2005, 01:59 PM
Well basically it comes down to: Do I want 64bit NOW for $40 or later when I get my 9.0 update package....?

Who knows when 9 will be out :) It could be a while (which I dont mind, bug free = better than bug infested...)

That's my point..

Brian Arndt
10-10-2005, 02:07 PM
most people would probably not enjoy downloading 700mb. 8~

lots
10-10-2005, 02:25 PM
bit torrent is a wonderful thing.. But yes, I see your point ;) I guess I'll just wait for 9. I've lived this long on 32bit lightwave :) They must have to ship with 64bit versions of all the built in plugins as well huh?

The nice thing about all the 64bit stuff though, in my opinion, is that the program can be compiled with optimizations for the x86-64 CPUs rather than all CPUs up to this point. You dont need to be backwards compatable with old hardware, because you know you'll have at least a somewhat modern system running.. :) Though thats just a guess on my part...

hunter
10-10-2005, 03:27 PM
most people would probably not enjoy downloading 700mb. 8~
Agreed :) Most people don't like to pay for free things either. :rolleyes:

Bog
10-10-2005, 03:34 PM
So fast!

*giggles, very nearly sanely*

groove660
10-10-2005, 06:14 PM
winge winge winge. No such thing as a free lunch gentlemen. $40 is peanuts. I expect to get slamed by some of you for saying that but i dont care. Im not sure what the cost to Newtek would have been to create a 64bit 8.5 version, but only charging for materials and postage seems very fair to me, i doubt Newtek is making much or any money on the deal. Sure they may have said the update was going to free, but any noob would know that a 64bit version would require a complete install so thinking you would get away with downloading it seems a little odd. No doubt the filesize for a complete install would be huge and then people without the pleasure of broadband would complain that it takes for ever to download and that Newtek should ship it on a CD. If you cant part with $40 dont upgrade to 64bit simple as that. Is it fair that Microsoft charge more for their 64bit OS regardless of shipping? All Newtek is trying to do cut down some of their overheads i.e. shipping/materials on an item that will not directly generate them income, seems like a smart business move to me.

Ohh and yes i do run a 64bit version so i will be ordering the 64bit update also.

Good work NewTek, i havent installed 8.5 yet but i will very shortly and im sure this update will reflect the hard work that the team has put in. Congratulations.

Slam away.......

IgnusFast
10-10-2005, 06:28 PM
most people would probably not enjoy downloading 700mb. 8~

Since I routinely download 2+ GB betas, I would *love* to download LW 64. Sorry, but otherwise this update is esentially worthless.

Almost none of the updates or new features made it into the Mac build- I've heard the reasons.

My PC is running 64 bit windows. Months later, what do we have? *BETA* dongle drivers not compatible with any Worley plugins, and a 32-bit only build unless we want to pay.

NT programmed the code requiring the dongle and the Mac OS Updates (where at least OpenGL 1.5 support would be a lot more valuable than, well, nothing), so to dump the blame on the dongle manufacturer and Apple is a bit disingenuous.

So essentially, there were really only *two* updates to LW before we have to pay for a another major revision. And the blame for missing features and dongle issues all fall everywhere but the company making the software.

Sorry if I sound bitter, but so far 8.0 has been the worst update in the product lifecycle *for me*. I won't speak for anyone else. But my wife is still irritated I spent this much on a computer program. You think she'll like me dumping another 2 car payments on a new update which probably won't offer any increased functionality on my Mac anyway?

Axis3d
10-10-2005, 06:34 PM
Can you still run LW 8.5 if you have an older graphics card? You just won't be able to view the new OpenGL enhancements? I have a Geforce 4800 Ti. There is an option to enable or disable the new OpenGL features, right?

gjjackson
10-10-2005, 06:35 PM
most people would probably not enjoy downloading 700mb. 8~

Just the other day I downloaded a 550mb file and it took a little over 30min.

JamesCurtis
10-10-2005, 06:56 PM
Axis3D

If you read the info about the requirements for OpenGL 2.0 you'd see that the nVidia GeForce 5200FX was the minimum requirement. For anything before the 6000 series cards, GL 2.0 is done in software - NOT HARDWARE and GL display updating would be slow according to data from nVidia.

Yes, the ability can be switched on and off for supported cards.

I currently have only an nVidia GeForce 5600FX card, but plan to get a better card as soon as i can afford it.

groove660
10-10-2005, 07:04 PM
Just the other day I downloaded a 550mb file and it took a little over 30min.

Congratulations, would you like a medal or trophey?? the point is not everyone has high speed internet connections.

Anyways i just got of the phone to a reseller in Australia (where im from) and they told me Newtek isnt releasing any CD's this time round 32bit or 64bit and that the 64bit version will be on the net within the next few days free to download. Im confused now. Anyone from Newtek mind clearing this matter up?

Cheers

Jarno
10-10-2005, 08:34 PM
If you don't have an OGL2.0 capable card, the new funky shading in layout previous won't be available (basically, you'll get the same as it was in 8.3). LW will run fine without an OGL2 card, like it has always done.

---JvdL---

Chuck
10-10-2005, 09:24 PM
Since I routinely download 2+ GB betas, I would *love* to download LW 64. Sorry, but otherwise this update is esentially worthless.

Almost none of the updates or new features made it into the Mac build- I've heard the reasons.

As far as the 32-bit versions of LightWave are concerned, the entire list with only one exception, the GLSL support, made it into the Mac build. This includes the new Multishift tool, the Photoshop blending modes, improvements to dynamics, and dozens of bug fixes.


My PC is running 64 bit windows. Months later, what do we have? *BETA* dongle drivers not compatible with any Worley plugins, and a 32-bit only build unless we want to pay.

NT programmed the code requiring the dongle and the Mac OS Updates (where at least OpenGL 1.5 support would be a lot more valuable than, well, nothing), so to dump the blame on the dongle manufacturer and Apple is a bit disingenuous.

So essentially, there were really only *two* updates to LW before we have to pay for a another major revision. And the blame for missing features and dongle issues all fall everywhere but the company making the software.

Sorry if I sound bitter, but so far 8.0 has been the worst update in the product lifecycle *for me*. I won't speak for anyone else. But my wife is still irritated I spent this much on a computer program. You think she'll like me dumping another 2 car payments on a new update which probably won't offer any increased functionality on my Mac anyway?


That certain elements of LightWave's development depend on the developers of the platform and on the manufacturer of the software protection system that NewTek has chosen to use is not at all disingenuous, it's just reality.

Every software protection system has its advantages and it's drawbacks, and so far LightWave's team has felt that the best method for LightWave was the SafeNet hardware key. Third party developers have known that this was going to continue with LightWave 64 and could have made exactly the same steps to be compatible with the new OSes and the new drivers that NewTek has made. Some have chosen not to do so.

Balancing development priorities is complex for a good many reasons; we can understand that a good many people have wanted improvements in OpenGL performance and capabilities, and would question why it was not done sooner and cite developments that they do not feel offer them anything as things that should not have been done, in their estimation. The fact of the matter is that while a specific advancement may not be important to one user it definitely is of major import to another who makes a different use of the product. From time to time, we may also have obligations to partners that require particular developments to be undertaken and completed. It is also worth noting that the very first steps toward improvement in OpenGL illustrate very well that the advancement itself presents plenty of issues that explain why a lower performing but very broadly compatible system has remained in place as long as it has. Not all cards are equal, not all drivers are equal, and not all platforms have implemented yet to the OpenGL 2.0 standard, and the new hardware shaders have brought this home to the LightWave community very clearly.

Of 8.0 and the four following updates, every one of them offered all features to both platforms, and among those features were a vastly widened range of AA options and reconstruction filters, the most flexible UV subpatch compensation system offered in any professional 3D product, an improved vector blur, improvements to dynamics in each and lots more features in addition to a very long roster of maintenance fixes; only in the fifth update does one feature set diverge the two 32-bit implementations of LightWave 3D, and does a new 64-bit implementation launch on the fully 64-bit OS available for it.

prospector
10-10-2005, 09:31 PM
700 megs? pffffft
bout 15 min
I don't mind :)

RedBull
10-10-2005, 09:31 PM
I have to say that 8.5 is great, but like a few...

I'm a little disappointed about the FREE 64bit edition for $40.00
I think Newteks lead up price and press releases failed to mention
that bit next to the FREE bit, until today...

If the PAID upgrade would of been announced earlier, i would of been happier.
It's the sneakyness i'm not such a fan of..

As for 700Mb, I doubt LW's install is 700mb, my current install is less than 150Mb.. And i'm on Dialup and would prefer to download it now.

And what happens if there are bugs in the 64bit edition?
Do i have to wait 4 weeks, and pay another $40.00 for 8.6 ?

F1Racer
10-11-2005, 02:54 AM
Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but how come we have GLSL support in Layout and not in the Open GL windows of Modeler ?

Bog
10-11-2005, 04:14 AM
For those who've been complaining about not being able to download the full install of the 64-bit version, I'll point out that the newtek.com servers seemed to choke for a while this morning just with the message traffic and people downloading the 20-odd-meg 8.5 update.

Which is fairer? Bill only the people who need/want LW64 for media, postage, and the person running around duping and mailing the disks? Or billing everyone for big, fast, fat-piped servers that only a low percentage of folk will use?

Sande
10-11-2005, 05:09 AM
Which is fairer? Bill only the people who need/want LW64 for media, postage, and the person running around duping and mailing the disks? Or billing everyone for big, fast, fat-piped servers that only a low percentage of folk will use?

Well, since lower percentage of folk use Mac maybe they should also start billing them, so that we PC-users have more bandwidth...? :foreheads

gjjackson
10-11-2005, 05:58 AM
Congratulations, would you like a medal or trophey?? the point is not everyone has high speed internet connections.

Cheers

My point was, some of us wouldn't have a problem downloading a CD file such as an ISO, and then burning it ourselves. I remember some time ago when downloading such an image and it took 6 - 8 hrs. I wouldn't bother with it then.

Elmar Moelzer
10-11-2005, 06:43 AM
Hey folks!
Give the guys at NewTek a break ok?
I have to say they did a great job with LightWave 8.5. I am very pleased.
The GLSL support was a problematic step and it caused some issues mainly because of the lack of support from hardware and software manufacturers at the moment.
It was the choice of ATi to put their focus on DirectX drivers and it was the choice of Apple not to include support for OpenGL2.0. This cant be blamed on NewTek.
Personally, I would have waited with support for Hardware shaders for a little longer since the market situation in this area is changing so much lately (e.g. the native support for OpenGL is discussed to be removed from future versions of MS Windows and to be done over DirectX which would slow down OpenGL tremendously on Windows). Nevertheless I apploud NewTeks courage for giving their users a great set of new features with the support for OpenGL2.0.
I think that NewTek once again is ahead of the time here and as every pioneer they face the problems that come with that.
GLSL works on most of my machines here. Even my laptop which has a Geforce FX 5700 Go can display OpenGL2.0 nicely and at an OK speed (I had to find new drivers for the Geforce Go though, since Acers driver support sucks). Considering the amount of calculations forced on a GPU by doing procedurals in real time (render a single poly with a good bunch of procedural textures on and then without any and compare the rendertimes, then you will understand that procedural textures take their toll in terms of rendertimes, doing that in realtime is quite an achievement IMHO) and LW8.5s OpenGL of procedurals is very accurate too. I have seen it in other apps and they usually just do some fake kind of approximation that has little to no value as a preview e.g. while doing surfacing).

Now please understand that the support for procedurals e.g. requires a lot of coding. There is no automatic way to make them work and some procedurals will probably never work fully in Hardware with OpenGL2.0. The programmers have to code shaders for every single Procedural type to make it work in OpenGL- display. I saw a few people complain about the lack of support for 3rd party procedurals, well thats why...

LW8.5 is very stable and NewTek really put a great deal of effort into making sure that LW8.5 is the most bug free version of LW ever.
That allone makes the update more than worthy to me.

Please also check the new "Relative Particle Age" Gradient- input parameter in HyperVoxels. I think some of you have been waiting for this for a long time, also check the support for PS- style Layer- Blending in Layout (my personal favorite in this update).

I dont really care about Multishift to much. Unfortunately it still does not work as a full replacement for Smooth Shift (mainly because it does not remember its previous settings and because it is a bit slow sometimes).

I think that LW8.5 is a great update with a lot of bang for the buck considering it is free.

Now about the "free" 64 bit version.
NewTek decided that they would ship it on a CD and not make it available for download since the files are huge (and I mean huge!) and the overhead caused by 100s of people trying to download it at once, would be really bad. In addition to that the chances that a long download like that will break off would be pretty high, so add that to the amount of support complaints they would have to deal with.
I would have done the same in NewTeks position honestly. I think that back when they made the announcement that it would be a completely free update, the department responsible for the announcement was probably not aware of the requirements for the 64bit update and did not know they would have to ship it on a CD.
Personally I know that 40 USD is really just the cost for making the CDs as well as shipping and handling and I am very happy to pay 40USD once my new 64bit system will be up and running (by the end of this week baby, yeah!).
If you check the update pricing and policies of other 3d- apps you will see that NewTek is always very, very fair with their customers and that giving away a free .5- update (and without requiring payed support fees) is not always common.
CU
Elmar

Bog
10-11-2005, 07:18 AM
Elmar,

It does make a feller wonder. How do these folk react at christmas and birthdays?

"I don't like the colour of this. I'm not fond of choclate. I don't like that band." etc....

(I'm being lighthearted, before anyone starts ripping long, bloody strips off me)

Rabbitroo
10-11-2005, 07:57 AM
Well, since lower percentage of folk use Mac maybe they should also start billing them, so that we PC-users have more bandwidth...? :foreheads

An excellent idea! Then we can stop stealing bandwidth from the PC-developers too so that more features can be loaded into the PC-version! ;)

:twak:

-K

Rabbitroo
10-11-2005, 08:00 AM
LW8.5 is very stable and NewTek really put a great deal of effort into making sure that LW8.5 is the most bug free version of LW ever.


Modeller crashed for me inside of 5 minutes. [promotional message for another product removed by the moderators].Another well-know modeller's *BETA* Version which is far less mature than LW version ran stable for more than 8 hours at the same time.

Stable? Humph! :p I think they need a few more Mac beta testers.

-K

P.S. Quick! Lock the thread! Someone said something bad about Newtek's code!!! [The "Waiting for 8.5" thread was locked because the discussion became uncivil between the users, with platform bashing and character attacks. - The Moderators]

hunter
10-11-2005, 08:29 AM
Which is fairer? Bill only the people who need/want LW64 for media, postage, and the person running around duping and mailing the disks? Or billing everyone for big, fast, fat-piped servers that only a low percentage of folk will use?

Which is more fair, keeping a promise that was made in writing or not? :neener:

Elmar Moelzer
10-11-2005, 09:06 AM
Hey Rabbitroo!
NewTek has as always a bugworkshop- thread going in the Mac- section of this Forum.
Have you entered that crash bug there yet? I am sure the development team will like to know what caused the crash for you.
Also: Can you reproduce it?
CU
Elmar

Bog
10-11-2005, 09:28 AM
Which is more fair, keeping a promise that was made in writing or not?

That post makes my brain hurt.

Brian Arndt
10-11-2005, 09:56 AM
most people would probably not enjoy downloading 700mb. 8~

I just want to apologize for this comment.. it seems some people thought i was being serious about it and i dont wanna get stuck being quoted that its 700mb.. i was just being quirky. So i just wanted to apologize. Just ignore me .. im a webmaster, we are paid to be weird. ;D

Bog
10-11-2005, 10:00 AM
im a webmaster, we are paid to be weird.

And this differs from being an animator.... how, exactly?

http://forum.wayoftherodent.com/images/smiles/icon_demented.gif

Rabbitroo
10-11-2005, 10:16 AM
Hey Rabbitroo!
NewTek has as always a bugworkshop- thread going in the Mac- section of this Forum.
Have you entered that crash bug there yet? I am sure the development team will like to know what caused the crash for you.
Also: Can you reproduce it?
CU
Elmar

Not very reproducable--seems to be about big models. When I have time, I'll try to diagnose and give NewTek a bug report. I had a job to do yesterday so I finished the model in [*MODERATOR CENSORED PRODUCT NAME*], which works very well in its *BETA* version for me and didn't crash once the whole day (about 8 hours of complex head modelling.)

-K

P.S. Quick! Edit my sig to remove the names of non-NewTek products I use!!!

|
|
V

Celshader
10-11-2005, 10:26 AM
I envy you PC folks who already have 64-bit Windows and more than 2GB of RAM. $40 for a CD is the least expensive aspect of upgrading to 64-bit LightWave for me. :(

It'll cost me much, much more than $40 to make my system ready to take advantage of a 64-bit app in the first place.

I have a dual-Opteron with 2GB of RAM running Windows 2000. I need to purchase a 64bit upgrade for my Windows.

Then, I need to justify my main reason for going over to 64bit in the first place: the ability to address more than 2GB of RAM. You lucky Mac OSX folks may scoff at the 2GB RAM limit per thread in Windoze, but it's a fact of life for us 32-bit PC users.

Now, the ability to address more than 2GB of RAM doesn't mean much without more than 2GB of RAM in the first place. So, I need to buy more RAM. That's gonna cost a bit...especially since all four of my RAM slots are occupied by 512MB sticks. I'll need to buy an entirely new set of RAM. :(

So...

...cost of upgrading Windows 2000 to 64-bit XP: $139 (http://www.directron.com/winxpx64.html)

...cost of upgrading my 2GB of ECC registered RAM to 4GB of ECC registered RAM (to justify moving to 64-bit in the first place): $138 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145310) x4 = $552

Total to upgrade my 32-bit system to a worthy 64-bit system: $691 + shipping costs.

At that point, I can't get too worked up over an additional $40. $40 is nothing compared to the $700 I must spend to get the most outta 64-bit LightWave in the first place.

I guess I could go cheaper with 3GB of RAM -- replacing only two of my sticks instead of all four. Then it'll just set me back $415 + shipping instead of $691+shipping.

$415 is still more painful for me than $40, though!!!

hunter
10-11-2005, 10:46 AM
Think of it this way:
You promise a client a ten second animation for free. You deliver five seconds of it, and then tell them they have to pay if they want the other five. How long do you think you'd last in the business? :)

Elmar Moelzer
10-11-2005, 10:49 AM
Hey Jennifer!
Just a question: Why do you need ECC- Ram?
Is it because of the Opteron?
CU
Elmar

Bog
10-11-2005, 10:58 AM
Think of it this way:
You promise a client a ten second animation for free. You deliver five seconds of it, and then tell them they have to pay if they want the other five. How long do you think you'd last in the business?

I'm sorry.... give animation away... free?

It reads like English, but it makes no sense. How am I supposed to stay in business anyway if I go 'round giving away the thing that keeps my mortgage paid, and keeps me in upgrades and cigarettes?

Then again, I think I remember some old saw about looking gift horses in the mouth.

inquisitive
10-11-2005, 11:01 AM
most people would probably not enjoy downloading 700mb. 8~

not saying I agree or disagree to the charge.. simply commenting on downloading a 700mb file.

I personally have downloaded 4 700mb files (iso's for redhat)
If you were to make an iso file of the install disk and give people the option to download it then they would have a choice. i think with a 1.5Mbit connection that should take like 4hrs to download.

I remember the Amiga BBS days when 600kb file took that long too lol

hunter
10-11-2005, 11:03 AM
I'm sorry.... give animation away... free?

It reads like English, but it makes no sense. How am I supposed to stay in business anyway if I go 'round giving away the thing that keeps my mortgage paid, and keeps me in upgrades and cigarettes?

Then again, I think I remember some old saw about looking gift horses in the mouth.
I knew somehow someone would latch on to that. The point is you made a deal, a promise, a contract and now you're not following through, but I guess that's O.K. to some people but not to me.

Bog
10-11-2005, 11:05 AM
I knew somehow someone would latch on to that. The point is you made a deal, a promise, a contract and now your not following through but I guess that's O.K. to some people but not to me.

When people give me nice things for free, I tend to give them a lot of latitude. *shrug* I see what you're saying about promises, and if it was a paid thing, I'd absolutely and utterly agree.

hunter
10-11-2005, 11:10 AM
Right. That's all I'm saying. People should keep their word. And when they can't a simple admission of "we made a mistake. We can't do that because blah blah and we're sorry for that but here's what we'll do" would go a long with me. :)

Celshader
10-11-2005, 11:14 AM
Hey Jennifer!
Just a question: Why do you need ECC- Ram?
Is it because of the Opteron?
CU
Elmar

Yep. Technically I only need registered RAM to satisfy my Opterons, not ECC registered RAM. In the past, though, I've rarely seen non-ECC, registered RAM sticks. So my RAM's registered, with ECC as a bonus.

Athlon64 systems don't need registered RAM, so lucky A64 users can shave about $30 off each 1GB stick that they buy. That said, I still think each A64 user needs more than 2GB in his workstation to justify using 64-bit LightWave. Otherwise, I don't see the point of running a 64-bit OS, or 64-bit LightWave.

I'm debating whether to bother with upgrading my machine to a 64-bit OS at this time. Right now I spend most of my day at work, not at home. I also don't have any personal/freelance projects at this time that honestly demand more than 2GB of RAM. In addition, I don't know if all of my hardware has 64-bit drivers for 64-bit Windows. I'm certain that my DPS Perception PVR doesn't have 64-bit drivers.

So in addition to buying Windows 64 and extra RAM, I might have to buy new hardware to replace anything that's not supported with 64-bit drivers.

I need to think about this. As I said, $40 for a CD is the least of my 64-bit worries.

howardt
10-11-2005, 11:57 AM
I upgraded my windows pro XP to pro XP 64 bit, and Microsoft charged about $12 for the install disk, including mailing. That was the entire cost of my upgrade (and by the way, I've been quite happy with it). Yes, more memory would have been nice, and perhaps is the most important reason to use a 64-bit OS, but there are other advantages too, and memory upgrade can come later.

Comparing the Microsoft $12 to the Newtek $40 makes me wonder...

Elmar Moelzer
10-11-2005, 12:08 PM
Hey Jennifer.
The reason why I am asking is that we just calculated the price for a whole new system to be arround 700 Euros. Its a bit slower though and only has 2 GB of RAM (we will upgrade the RAM again in a few months, or as we need it). Ours is going to be a Dual Core P4 though, which does not need Registered Ram to run. The ECC- RAM really costs a lot for the Megs you get out of it. Wonder whether it is really worth it in the end.

Howardt, NewTek is not Microsoft. You know "quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi", ooops, sorry NewTek, could not resist ;)
Now make your own sense about who is Iovi and who is bovi in this context and whether you would like NT to be Microsoft or not ;)
CU
Elmar

Celshader
10-11-2005, 12:14 PM
I upgraded my windows pro XP to pro XP 64 bit, and Microsoft charged about $12 for the install disk, including mailing. That was the entire cost of my upgrade (and by the way, I've been quite happy with it). Yes, more memory would have been nice, and perhaps is the most important reason to use a 64-bit OS, but there are other advantages too, and memory upgrade can come later.

Comparing the Microsoft $12 to the Newtek $40 makes me wonder...

I run a Windows 2000 system, not a Windows XP Pro system. I doubt Microsoft will be so generous with Windows 2000 users.

What advantages do Windows XP 64 and LightWave 64 offer, other than the ability to use more RAM? I'm still thinking about it, even though it'll probably cost me a lot more than $40.

EDIT -- on second thought, I should not upgrade to LightWave64 at this time. I own licenses of Worley's FPrime and Sasquatch, and I should wait until both are ported to Windows XP 64. :o

Elmar Moelzer
10-11-2005, 12:45 PM
Hey Jennifer!
I think it makes most sense if you need to render at extremely large resolutions (e.g. for print in a book) and/or extremely large scenes.

E.g. the guys at Zoic are very happy about LW64bit as you might be able to guess ;)

We hit the memory limit so far only once, but we mostly need the 64bit version to check our plugin project and the compiles for it under 64bit (CT data can be very large and our plugin allows to load multiple datasets at once this can bogg memory quite a bit ).

Oh and yeah, we have mostly Win2k here to. I still like it better than XP. Wished there was a 64bit version of Win2k... SIGH
CU
Elmar

Brian Arndt
10-11-2005, 01:36 PM
And this differs from being an animator.... how, exactly?

http://forum.wayoftherodent.com/images/smiles/icon_demented.gif

no difference :)

Bog
10-11-2005, 03:03 PM
CT data can be very large and our plugin allows to load multiple datasets at once this can bogg memory quite a bit

Smile when you say that, son... ;)

I'm really looking forward to this, as some of the book-recreation work I do for the British Library is a real RAM-hog. In fact, that's pretty much why a dual-Athlon 64 system has been acquired.

Celshader
10-11-2005, 03:17 PM
Smile when you say that, son... ;)

I'm really looking forward to this, as some of the book-recreation work I do for the British Library is a real RAM-hog. In fact, that's pretty much why a dual-Athlon 64 system has been acquired.

Heyyyy!!! Are you involved with this awesome British Library site..?
http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/ttp/ttpbooks.html

I love that site!!! :thumbsup:

Bog
10-11-2005, 04:51 PM
*Grin* Proudly, I am - though I do the graphics for the console installs in the BL itself.

Example:

http://www.atomicfish.co.uk/images/ttp1.jpg

That's one of the consoles, showing a fairly old Persian book. My Sony-Ericsson k700 is in the corner for scale... turning the pages on 40" plasma touchscreens is a real experience.

It's been a privilege, it really has :D

<edit>

The online versions are great, but I really got to go to town on the console versions - huge-resolution mapping on oh so many channels. Seeing the gilding and tooth of the paper, and having meticulously re-created the curvature of the different types of material - vellum, papyrus, rag paper, all of varying ages - was a fantastic challenge.

Random (low res) Render...

http://www.imaginetix.co.uk/images/Quran_01.jpg

Celshader
10-11-2005, 05:04 PM
*Grin* Proudly, I am - though I do the graphics for the console installs in the BL itself.

...

The online versions are great, but I really got to go to town on the console versions - huge-resolution mapping on oh so many channels. Seeing the gilding and tooth of the paper, and having meticulously re-created the curvature of the different types of material - vellum, papyrus, rag paper, all of varying ages - was a fantastic challenge.

That is beyond awesome. :bowdown:

Bog
10-11-2005, 05:10 PM
That is beyond awesome.

I was really lucky to get involved with the project just as it went to 3D from doing page-turns all in Photoshop. Now, the people I work with have a sweet little renderfarm, and wouldn't dream of using anything other than LightWave, because it's the absolute best tool for what we do. Given that we're basically the world authority on manuscript recreation in 3D (How did I get here? I make spaceships!?!??!?!) this is a brilliant place to be.

I'm incredibly proud - and strangely humble - to have such wonderful things placed in my charge. I guess this is part of why I get all stentorian when people gripe about LW and it's stuff, because I see places it's being used to preserve heritage, and make people unwitting accomplices to their own education by being compelled to play with cool things.

LightWave gave me the ability to jump out of bed in the morning and scream "I LOVE MY JOB!"

*grin*

lots
10-11-2005, 05:16 PM
It is a bit silly for me to fork over $40 for the 8.5 64bit stuff right now. This is mainly because I ordered LW 9 (to upgrade my student lic to a comercial one), and that already comes with the 64bit binaries. Plus, I dont have more than 2GB of memory ;) Though come January (hopefully along with LW 9) I'll be upping to 6 or 8 GB. Though, I'd have to replace my 4 512 sticks at some point to meet higher memory densities :) (I have 8 RAM slots total for a max of 16GB)

Bog
10-11-2005, 05:20 PM
Lots,

A lot of people seem to be missing the point that they'll get the 64-Bit Binaries with their Nine Point Oh install. Not that I'm one to let fact stand in the way of a good rant, mark you, but if you're already going to have LW64 land on your doorstep anyway, and don't need it right now, then $40 is a good night on the sody pop, if I recall 'merkin bar prices correctly.

Mine's a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, ta :)

habañero
10-11-2005, 07:36 PM
Well first a big congrats and thankyess to Newtek for pampering our asses like this, I hardly get the people saying it aint soft enough on the edges. Other companies will give put your *** on ice, I mean literally. Go and read the realflow forums, its for a reason they only show it to registered people. Realflow costs more than LW and it only does it's half crippled fluids and hard body. I remember reading this thread where like 20 users realized they had been, like left alone on the island, no support ever and **** you for asking bout a real manual, I mean it is like watching ****ing Lost.

Particularly the new PS style layers was a pleasant surprise, texturing now makes about 115% more sense to me and so I hope it is a hint about what we will be seeing in 9.

It also fixed some issues I had with opengl, and so the preview part is butter on the bacon to me, goody goody.

For the people still complaining about 8, they already like said they were sorry about 8 not being what we are about to get, LW9. But we maybe wouldn't get as 9 a 9 if it weren't for the problems that lead to 8, that's my reasoning anyway so who is to say it was all that bad, we get fresh new core! :thumbsup:

I really don't have any issue with the 40 bucks, but for me it is the annoyance of filling out a form, waiting, maybe having to walk 15 mins to the post office etc, just the backwardness of having to use the mail system instead of 2.5 seconds for "download torrent" and 1 second for "mount ISO" the next morning.

Now I can totally see problems with it but I think there would be both marketing benefit and obvious practical benefits to users of having a torrent. I mean to young people it is somehow a symbol, and so perhaps they would identify with a company that torrent their downloads. It could be possible to have a statement that Newtek doesn't like the bad use of this technology attached. It would also be faster to us broadbanders, and I'd certainly leave it on most of the day, there's 4 mb/s outwards from where I am now.

I'd rather see Newtek spend on research than on mega bandwidth but actually my main issue is very personal and it is that I am sortof like a nomad and the postal system is a very uncertain option for me as well as a the nuisance of an extra weeks worth of delay for a package delivered to the north of norway. I have Cell phone broadband 6 miles out in the sea, a download would be a sure way for me to get it and the post wouldn't if I am lightwaving on eh like real waves.

xaxis8
10-11-2005, 08:36 PM
:newhere: ,......so I have a few stupid questions to ask

I have an Althon FX-55 64bit computer using the standard windows xp Pro OS. What is the story with windows xp64 pro? Is there an upgrade package yet? I am having trouble finding or getting some information on this.

I read something about a trade in program which I think I Lost the deal. I did buy the computer in Feb of this year, but heard the program ended in July? I wasn't aware of this until last night. Is there a stand alone 64bit windows installer yet?

BTW I do have 2 AMD computers, so I would have to buy different 2 Licenses, correct? I wouldn't be able install one disc on both machines right? I never had 2 machines before and would like to try network rendering in the future.

Is LW 8.5 64 bit or 32bit? I can still load the LW 8.5 update on my machine still using the 32 bit OS, correct?

Sorry for the stupid questions. :confused: 8~

groove660
10-11-2005, 11:21 PM
Think of it this way:
You promise a client a ten second animation for free. You deliver five seconds of it, and then tell them they have to pay if they want the other five. How long do you think you'd last in the business? :)

Think about this one. You tell me you are going to produce a 10 second animation free of charge for me. Of course i accept the offer as a its free!!! The day you finish it you tell me to stop by your place of business to view and collect my newly created (free) master piece. I arrive, watch the animation agree that it kicks *** and confirm that i want it. You of course give it to me as agreed. I then ask you to refund my petrol money and any other related costs becuase you said the animation would be free. Would this be fair?? I think not, im not sure exactly what NewTek said about LW64 but i think its fair that we pay postage etc since the actual product i/we want is still technically free.

groove660
10-11-2005, 11:31 PM
:newhere: ,......so I have a few stupid questions to ask

I have an Althon FX-55 64bit computer using the standard windows xp Pro OS. What is the story with windows xp64 pro? Is there an upgrade package yet? I am having trouble finding or getting some information on this.

I read something about a trade in program which I think I Lost the deal. I did buy the computer in Feb of this year, but heard the program ended in July? I wasn't aware of this until last night. Is there a stand alone 64bit windows installer yet?

BTW I do have 2 AMD computers, so I would have to buy different 2 Licenses, correct? I wouldn't be able install one disc on both machines right? I never had 2 machines before and would like to try network rendering in the future.

Is LW 8.5 64 bit or 32bit? I can still load the LW 8.5 update on my machine still using the 32 bit OS, correct?

Sorry for the stupid questions. :confused: 8~


In order to run LW64 you will need windows XP 64. You should beable to get it from any computer store for around $130US (costs $200 here is australia). To install XP64 you need to do a complete install which means you will lose all data on your primary drive (C drive).

As for using LW on two computers, im not 100% sure, but i think its legal for you to install it on both computers but of course you can only run one version at time, you simply plug you dongle in when you need it. If you just want to use two computers so you can network render you only need LW and the dongle on one computer (the master) and you just copy some other files (should be detailed in the LW manual) to the slave computers......I think, ive never use network rendering but i think thats how it works.

Ohh yes you can download the 8.5 update (which is 32 bit) and run that on your computer. But if you upgrade your OS to XP64 you can also run the 8.5update (32bit) version fine, but it would probably be worth while paying the $29.95 and getting the LW 8.5 64bit

Cheers

lots
10-12-2005, 07:28 AM
Lightwave offers unlimited rendering nodes for the network renderer. Which is by far a great deal :) You dont have to install LW again on another computer to take advantage of ScreamerNet either. Just one installation will allow you to create a render farm with the rest of the computers on your network. I'm sure this is all covered in the screamernet forum though :)

Just a note though: You cant install 64bit 8.5 unless you are running a 64bit OS. If you're on 32bit Windows, then all you can do is use the download found on the site.

Anyway, like I said, I dont really mind the cost of shipping and materials for 64bit LW. But since I'm getting it later anyway and can live without it for the moment, I'm sad that I have to wait. :P Oh well :) it just means I wont have to mess with all the issues in this first release of LW64, right :) There's bound to be some, it is the first version...

hunter
10-12-2005, 08:29 AM
Think about this one. You tell me you are going to produce a 10 second animation free of charge for me. Of course i accept the offer as a its free!!! The day you finish it you tell me to stop by your place of business to view and collect my newly created (free) master piece. I arrive, watch the animation agree that it kicks *** and confirm that i want it. You of course give it to me as agreed. I then ask you to refund my petrol money and any other related costs becuase you said the animation would be free. Would this be fair?? I think not, im not sure exactly what NewTek said about LW64 but i think its fair that we pay postage etc since the actual product i/we want is still technically free.

Price for a blank CD, 15 cents.
Time to burn on duplicator, 30 seconds
Shipping $2.50
Getting your customers to shell out $40.00 when you said it would be free,
Priceless

Elmar Moelzer
10-12-2005, 09:13 AM
Hunter, I am affraid it is not that easy. First of all someone needs to burn the CD, then it has to be tested (you want to get one that works, right?),labled and packed, add covers, package material, etc and you get a lot higher. Plus the prices for the personel that is doing the work (from taking the orders to doing the CDs to handing it of to delivery etc).
So I am not so sure whether your very simple calculation can be applied to this that easily.
You might be right and 40 USD might be to high, but as I always say "in dubio pro reo" and 40 USD still seems to be very well within limits for me.
CU
Elmar

groove660
10-12-2005, 09:38 AM
Price for a blank CD, 15 cents.
Time to burn on duplicator, 30 seconds
Shipping $2.50
Getting your customers to shell out $40.00 when you said it would be free,
Priceless


If i didnt disagree with your thinking i would think that was very funny. hehehheh

Celshader
10-12-2005, 09:42 AM
Price for a blank CD, 15 cents.
Time to burn on duplicator, 30 seconds
Shipping $2.50
Getting your customers to shell out $40.00 when you said it would be free,
Priceless

Hunter...do you actually need LW64? If not, don't pay the $40.

I don't need LW64, so I'm not buying it. Until Worley comes out with 64-bit versions of Sasquatch and FPrime, I'm not bothering with LW64. Nothing I do at home justifies the upgrade.

NewTek's not forcing anyone to upgrade to LW64. Don't buy what you don't need.

hunter
10-12-2005, 10:01 AM
Hunter...do you actually need LW64? If not, don't pay the $40.

I don't need LW64, so I'm not buying it. Until Worley comes out with 64-bit versions of Sasquatch and FPrime, I'm not bothering with LW64. Nothing I do at home justifies the upgrade.

NewTek's not forcing anyone to upgrade to LW64. Don't buy what you don't need.
No. Nobody needs it. I do, however, have a 64bit system just waiting for it and that is why I don't have 40 bucks just aching to be handed over to NT. The point is that NT said it was free and they should be held to it. If they hadn't been saying it was going to be FREE all along I would have no problem with it. It smacks of BS, and I going to call them on it. I realize nobody's forcing me to buy it. It just isn't right that they say one thing and do another. I don't believe the shipping and handling charge nonesense. If I'm not mistaken a person who has not purchased anything from NT or supported their company over the past 5, or 10 years can call up and have a demo disc sent out free of charge, but loyal customers who have handed over thousands over the years, and WHO WERE TOLD IT WOULD BE FREE, have to pay 40 bucks. I call BS. That's all I have to say about that. :bangwall:

lots
10-12-2005, 10:04 AM
Well the shipping says $9.50 which is alot if you think about it. But shipping on small items is usually over priced like that. But thats not newtek's fault. It's more so the shipping people charging alot... Second, I doubt very much Newtek burns CDs. I'm sure the CDs we get from Newtek are pressed by some 3rd party manufacturer, which probably ends up costing a bit more, but is easier on mass production and probably more reliable (fewer unreadable CDs). The materials for creating the CD the box and the shipping box, on top of the money it costs Newtek to have the CDs pressed, I'm sure it easily comes up to $40. Especially if you think about the lower volume of CDs they are probably expecting to ship due to LW9 pre-orders and people who dont have 64bit capable machines.

On top of the fact we do get all the info ON the CD for free...

Celshader
10-12-2005, 10:05 AM
I do, however, have a 64bit system just waiting for it...

Lucky duck. That said, a 64-bit system alone isn't enough to justify LW64. If you have more than 2GB of RAM and your projects use more than 2GB of RAM...then yes, you need it. If not, you don't.

lots
10-12-2005, 10:07 AM
No. Nobody needs it. I do, however, have a 64bit system just waiting for it and that is why I don't have 40 bucks just aching to be handed over to NT. The point is that NT said it was free and they should be held to it. If they hadn't been saying it was going to be FREE all along I would have no problem with it. It smacks of BS, and I going to call them on it. I realize nobody's forcing me to buy it. It just isn't right that they say one thing and do another. I don't believe the shipping and handling charge nonesense. If I'm not mistaken a person who has not purchased anything from NT or supported their company over the past 5, or 10 years can call up and have a demo disc sent out free of charge, but loyal customers who have handed over thousands over the years, and WHO WERE TOLD IT WOULD BE FREE, have to pay 40 bucks. I call BS. That's all I have to say about that. :bangwall:

I wonder if those CDs have the 64bit binaries on them.... And if they will be able to be more than a demo with the dongle attached.. :P

Chuck
10-12-2005, 11:03 AM
No. Nobody needs it. I do, however, have a 64bit system just waiting for it and that is why I don't have 40 bucks just aching to be handed over to NT. The point is that NT said it was free and they should be held to it. If they hadn't been saying it was going to be FREE all along I would have no problem with it. It smacks of BS, and I going to call them on it. I realize nobody's forcing me to buy it. It just isn't right that they say one thing and do another. I don't believe the shipping and handling charge nonesense. If I'm not mistaken a person who has not purchased anything from NT or supported their company over the past 5, or 10 years can call up and have a demo disc sent out free of charge, but loyal customers who have handed over thousands over the years, and WHO WERE TOLD IT WOULD BE FREE, have to pay 40 bucks. I call BS. That's all I have to say about that. :bangwall:


You've made your point in more than enough places - any further repeats anywhere on the forums will be deleted. Once is always enough to get your point across as we closely read the forums and we consider all feedback. Any repeat of this kind of behavior of endlessly repeating a complaint on anyone's part will result in the removal of messages, and if needed, suspension from the use of the forums or banning. The forums are for civil discussion, and such behavior is not civil.

As for the price of the CD: with every update version of the software we always offer a convenience upgrade, for users who want the convenience of having an install CD in the new version, so that in the event of a re-install they do not have to install an older version and apply possibly up to several updates. That has always been priced at $29.95 plus s/h. This is no different, whatsoever. This is the new 8.5 version Program CD and will be the shipping product from now on, and as in the past we are making it available for a nominal fee that does not make it a profit center, by any estimation.

The 64-bit installer is included on this new Program CD, and we felt this was the best way to offer this, given that it is a complete install and previously we have never, not ever, not once offered a complete install as a download. We have only offered updates as downloads. However, management is always willing to take a second look when users have concerns, and so all concerns and views expressed have been passed to management for their consideration, and are being reviewed.

sonofmickel
10-12-2005, 02:24 PM
I am kind of with Hunter on this one. Newtek did say it would be free. I am just waiting to get a new 64bit machine(maybe a new AMD x2 system). What they could do is have a seperate sign in for people with legitimate liscenses for Win64. They then would be allowed to download the file. We allready have personal profiles at Newtek. Why not. Also, it cost very little to have cd's or dvd's pressed. Disc makers, the only company I know of off-hand, will do short runs, like 100 dvds for $200. Make more=even less$$. The fact is, it is cheap to dupe CD/DVD's these days. I am not sure where the money goes. Blah blah blah...

MitchVFX
10-12-2005, 02:43 PM
The 64-bit installer is included on this new Program CD...

Hey Chuck, will the 64-bit sentinal drivers also be in the CD or will we need to download them separately?

Bog
10-12-2005, 03:11 PM
Jeebus wept!

If it makes you lot feel any better, I'm pretty sure you've done NewTek a **** of a lot more than $40 worth of damage with the way some of you've reacted. You're being charged a token price for a bit of media, a bit of postage, and the wages of the people who have to process the orders. Holy Hanna, if $40 is such a humongous humpin' deal to you the what the heck can you afford to do 3D in the first place? Didn't you notice that this is an expensive business? Does the fact that NewTek have aggressively led the price-slashing of professional, high-end 3D applications for the last twenty freaking years? Or is it just that you think the price of a night out at the movies is so freakin' important, such a massive violation of purrrincipull that you need to publicly take a big dump about it? Could it even be that you're so small-souled that you just want to attack something?

Gh0d almight, you're making my brain hurt. I'm sorry for sounding off here, but I've had a really long couple of weeks at work, and you lot are doing me *$&^*)ing swede in. It's a free upgrade. They gave us a freebie. They're offering you a COMPLETELY RE-WRITTEN application for such a picayune amount of money - eight packets of cigarettes for goodness' sake! - that only Scrooge himself would decry it and all for the privilege of getting it a month or so early.

I applaud NewTek resoundingly for these public fora, for making it so easy for us to report bugs, to moan and whinge about even the least little thing but some of you are making a mockery of that entirely-unnecessary largesse. I bloody well pity Chuck at the moment, having to wade through this slurry. These poor sods are probably forgetting what their wives and kids look like, trying to get 8.5 and 9.0 out for us. I don't see 'em buzzing around in sports cars or taking holidays in Monaco - where the smeg do you get off on jumping on 'em for asking *NOT* to take a *LOSS* on something.

You're asking them to adopt a business model for bankruptcy. Given some of the comments, if my tinfoil beanie weren't so well seated I'd swear you worked for Autodesk. You should darn well be ashamed of yourselves.

Rant over. Think I might need a drink.

Mods, feel free to delete this post but my Gh0d some people can be obnoxious.

Chuck
10-12-2005, 03:51 PM
Folks, please just consider that there is ample validity in both points of view that have been expressed on the matter, that there is no reason to be upset with one another for expressing your differing points of view, that NewTek has heard and is reviewing, and then agree to disagree, and let it rest.

Bog
10-12-2005, 03:54 PM
You want me to lose the post, Chuck? I know I went OTT, but dear gawd, I was all "woo" and "yay" and there were all these folk just shouting "sucks!" and, well, you know.

Bleh.

It's like being at a Pink Floyd gig, getting sky-high of Gilmour and the gang performing Comfortably Numb and having someone shouting "The Scissor Sisters version was better!" all throughout the performance.

hunter
10-12-2005, 04:22 PM
It's like being at a Pink Floyd gig, getting sky-high of Gilmour and the gang performing Comfortably Numb and having someone shouting "The Scissor Sisters version was better!" all throughout the performance.
Weird that we're both floyd fans. :D And you're right I never said woo and yea for the 8.5 update that we got. My oversite, thanks NT.

Chuck
10-12-2005, 04:29 PM
When we made the decision to make the 64-bit version available on CD, it really seemed to us like the better way to go. Apparently, lots of folks would really prefer to have a download, so we gave it another thought...and we'll have a version for you to download shortly! The download should be ready in the next 24 to 48 hours, and we'll let you know officially that it's ready here in this forum. You'll be able to download LightWave 64 following the standard download procedure from NewTek or the partner site where you are registered.

For anyone who has already placed an order for the 8.5 Program CD Convenience Upgrade through our office in San Antonio, one of our friendly customer service reps will contact you to confirm your order and determine if you want us to proceed with processing or initiate a credit to your account.

Bog
10-12-2005, 04:30 PM
Weird that we're both floyd fans.

Nah, if we didn't both have superb taste, we wouldn't both be using LW in the first place ;)

Bog
10-12-2005, 04:31 PM
When we made the decision to make the 64-bit version available on CD, it really seemed to us like the better way to go. Apparently, lots of folks would really prefer to have a download, so we gave it another thought...and we'll have a version for you to download shortly! The download should be ready in the next 24 to 48 hours, and we'll let you know officially that it's ready here in this forum. You'll be able to download LightWave 64 following the standard download procedure from NewTek or the partner site where you are registered.

For anyone who has already placed an order for the 8.5 Program CD Convenience Upgrade through our office in San Antonio, one of our friendly customer service reps will contact you to confirm your order and determine if you want us to proceed with processing or initiate a credit to your account.

That is a thing of beauty.

hunter
10-12-2005, 04:36 PM
Chuck this news is AWESOME :thumbsup: Thank you all so much, and I promise I won't take away from this the lesson of the squeaky wheel. ;)

Bog
10-12-2005, 04:40 PM
Thank you all so much, and I promise I won't take away from this the lesson of the squeaky wheel.

Honey and Vinegar, dude.... you don't have up kick the cow to make it give milk. These good people do listen, which is when I get all bolsh when people speak nastily to 'em, because they do a darn good job and don't deserve it.

Update released Monday Night (by my clocks) - 64 bit download promised due to popular demand by week's end (by my clocks).

You don't get this anyplace else, which is why I get all defensive when people get stroppy. I know it's part of Chuck's job to make like ablative armour, but ... well.. feh... these guys have made a good life for me by the tools they make, and... well.. yeah.

Heh.

*Puts on Comfortably Numb, really loudly*

:D

hunter
10-12-2005, 05:00 PM
I know they're good guys and that they'd come through for us.
Sometimes the cow needs a little proddin' though :beerchug:

Stilll tryin to catch up with the sun...

Bog
10-12-2005, 05:03 PM
All's well that ends well.

ColinCohen
10-12-2005, 05:51 PM
When we made the decision to make the 64-bit version available on CD, it really seemed to us like the better way to go. Apparently, lots of folks would really prefer to have a download, so we gave it another thought...and we'll have a version for you to download shortly! The download should be ready in the next 24 to 48 hours, and we'll let you know officially that it's ready here in this forum. You'll be able to download LightWave 64 following the standard download procedure from NewTek or the partner site where you are registered.

For anyone who has already placed an order for the 8.5 Program CD Convenience Upgrade through our office in San Antonio, one of our friendly customer service reps will contact you to confirm your order and determine if you want us to proceed with processing or initiate a credit to your account.

Very nice gesture. It will certainly payoff in the long term.

xaxis8
10-12-2005, 06:20 PM
In order to run LW64 you will need windows XP 64. You should beable to get it from any computer store for around $130US (costs $200 here is australia). To install XP64 you need to do a complete install which means you will lose all data on your primary drive (C drive).

As for using LW on two computers, im not 100% sure, but i think its legal for you to install it on both computers but of course you can only run one version at time, you simply plug you dongle in when you need it. If you just want to use two computers so you can network render you only need LW and the dongle on one computer (the master) and you just copy some other files (should be detailed in the LW manual) to the slave computers......I think, ive never use network rendering but i think thats how it works.

Ohh yes you can download the 8.5 update (which is 32 bit) and run that on your computer. But if you upgrade your OS to XP64 you can also run the 8.5update (32bit) version fine, but it would probably be worth while paying the $29.95 and getting the LW 8.5 64bit

Cheers

Thank u for the info groove, I think I will wait for LW 9 to be release to run LW 64. In the mean time I need to get the 64 bit OS. I am still new LW [8] :rolleyes:

I am a little disappointed that u have to pay for LW 8.5 64bit version. I would rather put the money into the OS then be ready for LW 9. :grumpy:

Thanks again!

Celshader
10-12-2005, 06:46 PM
I am a little disappointed that u have to pay for LW 8.5 64bit version.

Good news -- you don't.
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=41748

habañero
10-12-2005, 07:04 PM
Just what I said, these are avesome, real people and they actually listen!

Just like us, they love 3D, it aint the money.