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View Full Version : Best format & codecs for vt 4.5



Seti Orion
10-06-2005, 01:26 AM
I have a few questions.

If I'm bringing some footage in from other video editing software what is better for vt 4.5

Avi or Mpeg 2 or 4 ??? or other ?

To get the highest quality looking dvd should i save my project as rtv or other file, open in tmpeg or TMPGEnc and enocode with cinmacraft or the best codec I can get?

Can someone tell me more about the the tmpeg or TMPGEnc process with vt4.5 please.

How is the new vt4.5 codec compared to some of the better ones?

I Have been ripping dvds lately doing some test and so far the best way with almost unnoticable degration is using a dvd player sending s-video out into the sx-8 and recording that instead of using dvd ripping programs. After trying many dvd ripper programs, Im too dvd ripper was the best I found, but i could still see the degration.

After all this I have really noticed codecs and other factors affecting my final product (duh).

I need to create the best looking dvd possible, can some of you Vt 4 experts please tell me about your process in detail.

thanks ahead of time!

Rich Deustachio
10-06-2005, 12:05 PM
Avi, VT won't play Mpeg 2 or 4 clips.

wvp
10-08-2005, 08:33 AM
If your footage is DV to begin with then best is to transfer the footage via firewire - no loss & small file size.
If footage is analog (i.e vhs, svhs, 8mm, etc) best would be RTV.
There is no advantage to rendering a project out if you use TMPGenc. There is no advantage to rendering a DV project to RTV - if you start with something that is lower quality (dv is 5:1 compressed) then there is no advantage to rendering the project to an uncompressed format - it can't make the file better than the original and the original is allready a digital file.
Quality wise some feel capturing any source via component analog into rtv looks as good or maybe even better than a firewire transfer. The big advantage to this is VT likes RTV best.
Encode for DVD with whatever encoder you like - TMPGenc is not the best but it is the best for the price. It also allows you to encode from a VT project, saving the time of rendering the project out.
Lastly, do a search here for the MANY posts on how to acheve good results with TMPGenc.

ScorpioProd
10-08-2005, 04:15 PM
TMPGenc is not the best but it is the best for the price.

More like TMPGEnc is the best for ANYWHERE NEAR the price! :thumbsup:

Jim_C
10-08-2005, 05:36 PM
There is no advantage to rendering a DV project to RTV -

True. Unless you are going to use those clips for multiple layers, multiple renders, resizing or multiple color correction/effects.

ScorpioProd
10-08-2005, 06:50 PM
True. Unless you are going to use those clips for multiple layers, multiple renders, resizing or multiple color correction/effects.

Quite true. But are there really many VT users that do that? I mean 100% of the stuff you do inside of VT-edit, there would be NO advantage. Everything in VT-edit is always handled as uncompressed internally, including background rendering.

Jim_C
10-08-2005, 11:23 PM
Hmmm, so... If I am working with an original DV clip. Then my process involves a resize, color correction, 3 layer project of that DV clip that is rendered to a single file.
Then use that rendered clip, add a cg title and an overlay then render to a single file again.

It is the same working with a a DV slip all thru that? As opposed to rendering the DV file to an RTV to start with?
Seems like all the de-re compression of a DV file along with color correction and resize would muddy it up more along the way. As opposed to making it an RTV at the beginning to do such work with.

ScorpioProd
10-08-2005, 11:50 PM
Hmmm, so... If I am working with an original DV clip. Then my process involves a resize, color correction, 3 layer project of that DV clip that is rendered to a single file.

You are losing NOTHING during whatever you do in VT-Edit in one project. All of the things you mention above, and anything else you add are all being done to the UNCOMPRESSED VIDEO as VT-Edit processes it. It uncompresses the DV once to access it, and everything else is happening in real-time or background rendered UNCOMPRESSED. There is absolutly NO advantage to having saved the DV clip as RTV initially for all of this.



Then use that rendered clip, add a cg title and an overlay then render to a single file again.

You rendered out a file, so that is taking it OUTSIDE of VT-edit, so yeah, you would lose quality at this point if your intermediate render was to DV. But why would you want to do this anyway when you could do it all inside of ONE project? (Except for alpha channel limited DVEs/subprojects, of course.)

So, if you really wanted to do it this way, the logical thing to do is to render your DV project to an RTV intermediate, then you wouldn't have any lose.

But as you can see, since the question goes back to the "best initial format to save DV to", there is NO advantage to wasting space by saving it intially to RTV, unless your system has trouble with DV, which no VT speced system should.



It is the same working with a a DV slip all thru that? As opposed to rendering the DV file to an RTV to start with?

Yup.



Seems like all the de-re compression of a DV file along with color correction and resize would muddy it up more along the way. As opposed to making it an RTV at the beginning to do such work with.

Nope. The clip is only decompressed ONCE for the entire process inside of VT-Edit.

Jim_C
10-09-2005, 07:25 AM
OK, so we're down to RTV will only help if the project has several renders.

Which, yes, siiiighhhhhh, mine usually do due to the overlay alpha DVE situation.

And actually, when parts of a project get very layered and complex, and clips are sliding all over the place, I like to render it down to a single file once I'm sure no more changes are needed. I have had funky things happen when trying just to place them in a subproject.

Thanks

Jim

ScorpioProd
10-10-2005, 01:06 AM
Subprojects not being able to be treated 100% like clips is a major limitiation in VT-Edit.

wvp
10-10-2005, 06:57 AM
More like TMPGEnc is the best for ANYWHERE NEAR the price! :thumbsup:
Couldn't agree more!


True. Unless you are going to use those clips for multiple layers, multiple renders, resizing or multiple color correction/effects.
I suppose if you have a need for multiple rendering (whatever the reason) capture via firewire first and then render whatever parts you need via RTV. This way you save a lot of disk space (with the inital large file) but you get the advantages of RTV when things get complex.
Sure is nice to have system that lets you use both!

Jim_C
10-10-2005, 07:37 AM
I suppose if you have a need for multiple rendering (whatever the reason)


First is the issue of no DVE's on subprojects or overlays.
Second is the fact that when working with a complexly layered project with multiple elements it sure is easier to render segments to a single rtv than to try and grab a bunch of layers and drag, slide, move, place them around.
And it will play in real time as opposed to fiddling with real time layering woes.
I have had weird things happen to in/out points, fade times etc when I have placed complex layers into a subproject, than expanded it again, so I don't trust them most of the time.But hopefully that is just me.

And yes, sure is nice.

:thumbsup:

ScorpioProd
10-10-2005, 03:32 PM
You can use DVEs between subprojects, but you probably meant stuff like PIPing and positioning and such, right?

BTW, if you find you are doing the multirendering and you are too tight on space to use RTV, I would recommend trying the NT25 codec for your intermediate instead of DV, the quality should be better based on the better color space and compression efficiency.

Seti Orion
05-15-2006, 01:31 AM
I have a project I shot on my FX-1 and I want to make the highest quality DVD possible with my VT-4 system.

Few questions

#1 To get the footage into the VT-4 Should I transfer footage via component, composite or firewire for best quality.

#2 should I enable High quality and ISS on all clips?

#3 To create the DVD should I save as VTP file (wrapper) and open in DVDWS or should I use tempeg or cinemacraft for highest quality?
Or render or what? Do I have to render 1st and then bring into tempeg or can tempeg use a wrapper file like DVDWS so I donít have to render?
Can someone break this down for me please.

#4 I read somewhere about a way to make it my video look like film in VT4 any of you guys have any luck with that?

#5 I have been trying Vt4's CG to create some credits. No matter what I do my CG does not look as good as the credits I see at the end of movies. I'm hoping adobe image ready or after effects for CG will fix my problems.

What other steps am I'm missing for the best quality DVD and production?

Please help me optimize my workflow

Maybe we could make this a sticky for new users.

ScorpioProd
05-15-2006, 12:11 PM
I have a project I shot on my FX-1 and I want to make the highest quality DVD possible with my VT-4 system.

Few questions

#1 To get the footage into the VT-4 Should I transfer footage via component, composite or firewire for best quality.


Firewire. That results in NO changes to the data. The other methods can't claim that.



#2 should I enable High quality and ISS on all clips?


If you are doing something with positioner, High Quality will help, otherwise, no affect. ISS is for when higher than video resolution images are in your project, no advantage when working with video resolution clips.



#3 To create the DVD should I save as VTP file (wrapper) and open in DVDWS or should I use tempeg or cinemacraft for highest quality?
Or render or what? Do I have to render 1st and then bring into tempeg or can tempeg use a wrapper file like DVDWS so I don’t have to render?
Can someone break this down for me please.


Load your project video as a VTP directly into TMPGEnc.
Render your audio as a WAV directly from VT-Edit with the audio offset at -12dB to make the levels right.
Put them all together in DVD WS 2.



#5 I have been trying Vt4's CG to create some credits. No matter what I do my CG does not look as good as the credits I see at the end of movies. I'm hoping adobe image ready or after effects for CG will fix my problems.


Only use speed 2 with scrolls. And pick video friendly fonts.

Seti Orion
05-15-2006, 12:20 PM
Thanks for the reply


I meant to start a new thread with this topic.

Can you explain this a little more please

Originally Posted by ScorpioProd
Quote: Load your project video as a VTP directly into TMPGEnc.
Render your audio as a WAV directly from VT-Edit with the audio offset at -12dB to make the levels right.
Put them all together in DVD WS 2.

So TMPgenc can load the vtp (wrapper file)
then once in TMPgenc I render it to mpeg-2 in there right?
Is there a tutorial on how to use TMPgenc with VT4 for best results?
What settings should I tweak?

ScorpioProd
05-15-2006, 03:47 PM
TMPGEnc can load standard VTP files via the third-party plug-in for it that installs when you install VT[4].

Too much info to simply explain more here on TMPGEnc encoding. I could write a novel on tweaking TMPGEnc settings. Yes, you load the project and use TMPGEnc for the MPEG-2 encoding.

Drop me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll send you my old article on using TMPGEnc with VT[2], that should point you in the right direction.

Or do some searches on the boards, I've certainly talked about it a lot over the years. And the audio issues that Newtek never fixed that make you need to render out the audio at -12dB.