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View Full Version : Dongle nightmare (sorry for the long post)



mrnitesky
10-04-2005, 06:09 PM
(Nice discussion forum setup.)

:help: What do I do now?

I'm a new academic user. After having LightWave 3D installed and registered (with the 16 digit "licence key") on my machine for several weeks;

On saturday I discovered the software reverted to the "Discovery Edition"... I found on a discussion board about needing to plug in the dongle even though the installation instructs seemed to say to unplug it after the install is complete.

I've done everything I can think of except tear my house apart looking for the missing dongle!

I sent an email to customer service on sunday explaining the situation (included the Serial #, Lock Id, License Key, & Platform).

I then checked my email on monday and called tech support. The tech person said I must have the dongle plugged in again to get past "DiscoveryEdition". I was charged $75 for a replacement dongle. I then paid an additional $32 for overnight shipping (because I needed it before yesterday for school)

Now it's Tuesday and I'm home from my job ready for my overdue school-work.. I have the replacement dongle plugged in and the software tells me "Your licence key was not found,,contact NewTek to get a permanent key (xxxx8)" . Showing the 5 digit "Lock ID" ending in an "8".

I checked the original licence-key email from NewTek and find the last digit of the original ID is a "7". The "replacement" is off by one digit!

This is outrageous! :bangwall:

By now I'm afraid of adding more tangle to this very messy scheme..

What I see is a very good company, :lightwave a very good product, and a very offensive problem with a seriously outdated & outmoded copy-protection solution. :thumbsdow

I thought these nasty antisocial dongles DIED with the rest of the dinosaurs! Apparently not. I feel growing derision for this old dongle idea. Indeed I feel an amount of righteous indignation for myself and other unfortunate customers who have to put up with even the "normal" dongle inconvenience. What if everybody required dongles? What then? It's utterly ridiculous.

WHAT CAN I DO TONIGHT TO FIX this insane situation without making it worse? Please help.


P.S.
Dear NewTek (if anyone is listining) :I_Love_Ne Do you want to cut some longterm costs, get more customers & lose fewer of them while making more money? Yes? Then do yourself and every customer a favor; Kill the dongle... Just kill it.

Trust me. You've been fooled. The actual reality of the situation, is the only people it effectively hinders are your current customers, your potential customers, yourselves and your good promotion, customer sales, and support staff.
I could give you and endless list of great companies with better, more customer friendly copyprotection setups. Indeed as I read material on the net it seems one or more of your competitors are taking aim at the dongle weakness with thier own promotions. You're really shooting yourselves in the foot here. :2guns: I know you can do better. :beerchug: Cheers.

--Jim.

pauland
10-04-2005, 07:02 PM
Every dongle has a different code. You need a new licence key from Newtek.

Your views about dongles have been seen in LW circles over many years and Newtek hasn't changed it's mind yet. Your energy would be better employed in phoning Newtek up to get a new Key.

Paul

mrnitesky
10-04-2005, 08:41 PM
Hello Paul,

Thanks for your reply. Sorry if I threw a little heat.

I really just want to help "tame the frightened beast, without being bitten" again.

May I ask. What are your views on the subject?

For now; I see Resistance is futile. I will submit to the collective - this time.

I realize now that every dongle must be different, in order for the scheme to have its intended effect. It's the unintended consequences of this particular method, which just make it seem an old wastefull shame.

--Jim.

"There is birth, and there is death, and everything in between is a struggle for control."

groove660
10-04-2005, 08:52 PM
i would hardly call dongles antisocial dinosaurs. At my work (a large structual engineering company) we have a range of very professional and expensive software titles, they all have dongle protection. I think you will find that most high end titles use this technology as away of cutting down illegal use.

If i was you i would keep contacting NewTek to obtain a valid lisence for your new dongle and dont lose your new dongle this time ;)

TheDynamo
10-04-2005, 09:33 PM
Actually with a new dongle you need to re-run the "register lightwave" program in your Lightwave [8] Application/Programs folder. This should give you a new license key (not sure of the official wording, it's been a while since I registered) code to enter at the Lightwave registration website. Once you enter that at the website, you will get a new code xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx that you enter again using the "register lightwave" program following the instructions. Once that is done you should be up and running with the dongle in a USB port.

-Dyn

edit- I just checked my registration under customer care on the newtek site.

what you need to do is get your new lock ID and serial number (if it's changed), enter in the information and you will get a new code that reads like 1111-2222-3333-4444. You may have to set up an account first but once that's done you should be in business.

mrnitesky
10-04-2005, 11:35 PM
Groove. Thanks for the reply. I will continue to contact NewTek. ;)

I just don't understand why customer/tech support has not already e-mailed me the much needed new license key. :bangwall:

Certainly they already know the lock ID that they mailed to me overnight. And I know they are aware of the urgency.

We may dissagree. But I think I know where you are coming from. I've been around the IT block a few times myself (admitedly in different fields than this.) From tech suport and customer relations all the way thru software development and maintenance.. You may find however, that business technology support, infrastructure, and development people universally dislike dongles for the effect they have on them and their customers for too many reasons to list here.

The Idea is that this "super powerful" copy-protection preserves product integrity, and economically protects the ability to grow and maintain the product as among the best in the market. And I fully agree with the goal here.
But over the years it has been tried and abandoned by many infavor of equally effective yet more customer friendly solutions.

:foreheads Yep I goofed and lost the thing. I'm not a large company, so the occasion had a significantly painfull impact...

""I think you will find that most high end titles use this technology as away of cutting down illegal use.""

Hmmm. Don't know about the structural enginering apps.

But let's look at some big names with industrial strength workhorses in media production sofware...

How about.
Sony Pictures Digital(Vegas, Acid, SoundForge, etc.)..
Adobe(Premier Pro, After Effects, Photo Shop etc.)..
Macromedia(Director, Flash, Dreamweaver, etc.)..
Apple, Sorenson,

where do I stop?

But what about the 3D CGI apps? OK-- Discreet(3ds max), Alias(Maya), Maxon(Cinema 4D), SoftImage XSI...

Some have abandoned dongles for good reason. None of them use a dongle now.
Indeed I've heard that one or more of them will exchange a discount for a lightwave dongle!

Believe me. They are aiming at a marketing weakness.
I like NewTek, really. And I love LightWave for its unique strengths. I want to see NewTek and LightWave continue to grow, and to be as strong as possible.

I just know the dongle doesn't cut it in this market anymore... And replacing it would actually help the bottom line in the long-run.

Oh well there goes the night.
Best regards.

--Jim

mrnitesky
10-04-2005, 11:42 PM
Thanks for the info Dyn,

At this point I wont have time to run that until late tommorow night. Business meetings and school all day... But I will have time to call tech support.

I can only guess why I don't already have the new 16 digit key.

Good night all.

pauland
10-05-2005, 01:15 AM
Mr Nitesky,

I understand the frustration, but beginning your LW career in a series of posts explaining because of your considerable experience you need to explain Newteks folly in using dongles and don't understand why Tech Support aren't doing part of your installation work for you, doesn't bode well.

I'd suggest sitting back, working through the installation/registration process and go with the flow rather than try and change the Newtek business model in your first few posts.

Once you're up and running you can begin to enjoy LW and perhaps will be less interested in trying to change Newtek from day one. Newtek is quite an amazing company - a little bit of rough mixed with a lot of smooth at a great price.

Good luck!

P.S. Don't lose the dongle again..!

groove660
10-05-2005, 01:41 AM
Hmmm. Don't know about the structural enginering apps.

But let's look at some big names with industrial strength workhorses in media production sofware...

How about.
Sony Pictures Digital(Vegas, Acid, SoundForge, etc.)..
Adobe(Premier Pro, After Effects, Photo Shop etc.)..
Macromedia(Director, Flash, Dreamweaver, etc.)..
Apple, Sorenson,

where do I stop?

But what about the 3D CGI apps? OK-- Discreet(3ds max), Alias(Maya), Maxon(Cinema 4D), SoftImage XSI...

Some have abandoned dongles for good reason. None of them use a dongle now.
Indeed I've heard that one or more of them will exchange a discount for a lightwave dongle!

Believe me. They are aiming at a marketing weakness.
I like NewTek, really. And I love LightWave for its unique strengths. I want to see NewTek and LightWave continue to grow, and to be as strong as possible.

I just know the dongle doesn't cut it in this market anymore... And replacing it would actually help the bottom line in the long-run.

Oh well there goes the night.
Best regards.

--Jim
Well i dont really know why others abandoned the dongle idea or why newtek keeps using but i just accept that different companys use different methods. Much the same as the different algorithms behind their serial and activation codes etc. I can certainly understand your situation and how frustrating it must be, but as you said you did lose the dongle in the first place. All i can say is that some companys use dongles and some dont, its not fair to refer to dongles as outdated or antisocial simply because the majority of software titles do not use them. Newtek is simply trying to protect its amazing products.

A few structual apps that use dongles
RAPT
Strand7
MADYMO
SpaceGass

where do i stop............

BeeVee
10-05-2005, 02:28 AM
I can also chime in. The first apps you mentioned are all mainstream products and economies of scale make a dongle worth less (not worthless however). The second list may have got rid of the dongle (in some cases) but have replaced it with draconian licensing schemes whereby, in the example of 3ds max, you can't even change your hard disk without reregistering your software.

LightWave's dongle provides two valuable services. Firstly, it allows you to install LightWave on as many different machines as you need to, whether PC or Mac, and wherever the dongle is, there's a full version. The other copies run as demos. The second reason is that it means that third party vendors only need to build in dongle recognition to protect their products - much better for the likes of Happy Digital or W-Tools who are single person companies producing commercial plug-ins for LightWave (namely HDInstance and others; and LWCAD respectively).

B

doimus
10-05-2005, 04:07 AM
The second list may have got rid of the dongle (in some cases) but have replaced it with draconian licensing schemes whereby, in the example of 3ds max, you can't even change your hard disk without reregistering your software.

Agreed. Although I had my share of horror related to missing dongle (who hasn't :rolleyes: ) I still think current NT licensing scheme is MUCH, MUCH better than those of the competition. At least with the dongle, your license is tied to yourself (pun intended, keep that dongle tied :hey: ), not some irrelevant hardware component like BeeVee said.

lardbros
10-05-2005, 12:50 PM
I agree with the others on this one. I think a dongle is the best way to keep security for the developers but the least intrusive and punishing to the user compared to other companies. We don't have to re-register everytime we format etc which means less work for us AND also less work for Newtek too, they don't have to dish out license numbers left right and centre for people who have only upgraded a PC. Newtek can use this extra time to drink more red-bull and build fantastic releases like LW9 (no i won't hold back judgement till it's released... it's gonna be the mutts nuts)!

Lightwolf
10-06-2005, 07:49 AM
Just to chime in... especially now with USB being standard, I'm quite happy with a dongle. Much better than just about any other licensing scheme used by companies, especially softlocks (can you also say Adobe or Macromedia?).

Jim does have a point though in one respect: If he gets a replacement dongle it would be nice courtesy if he got a new activation code shipped/mailed without him having to re-register.

Have a look at how Eyeon handle their licensing ... as far as dongle based licensing is concerned they are grand (well, they have superb support in any way). You have your account, and you can easily download any activation key / license file of any dongle registered to that account.

Cheers,
Mike

BeeVee
10-06-2005, 08:20 AM
Normally, if you do a dongle swap, or get a new dongle because you broke your last one, with NewTek Europe (directly) then you will receive a letter with it with your new license.key number so there's no need to re-register. In the US, it's not a problem either since you can get yourself a new license.key easily from your account pages at NewTek's website.

B

Lightwolf
10-06-2005, 08:23 AM
Normally, if you do a dongle swap, or get a new dongle because you broke your last one, with us (directly) then you will receive a letter with it with your new license.key number, so there's no need to re-register.

Well, that's NT-E support :D

Cheers,
Mike - still running on his LW 4.0 parallel port dongle - knock on wood.

mrnitesky
10-06-2005, 05:37 PM
:thumbsup: Thanks for all the thoughtfull replies. Especially Ben, and Mike. You and your seconds provided the most thoughtfull and logical comments.

Still trying to come up for air here... I've got the replacement dongle and the new license key number.

Unfortunately Tech Support and all out of the office and gone home by the time I get to my machine.

:rolleyes: I found license.key, deleted the old numbers and put the new key in.

:confused: I rebooted and tried to start Modeler with the dongle and it just locks up with the hourglass... (with the dongle in)

:screwy: So then I figured "maybe some setting or file went out of whack" so I put the program disk in and uninstalled everything.

:grumpy: rebooted the machine and reinstalled everything with the dongle.

:screwy: went thru the registration sequence and entered the new license key, which gave me a message that it couldn't access the license.key file !

:2guns: So I blew past that and tried a bunch of other stuff.

8~ deleted the license.key file, and used notepad to create a new one with the new key number.

Started Modeler and it still locks up. Rebooted and tried Layout. It locks up. etc. :compbeati

All I can think to do now, is to go back and do the uninstall followed by as much seek and delete's as I can think of to remove any trace I can find of the previous install.

And then try the installation again with the dongle and key. :bangwall:

--Jim.

MiniFireDragon
10-06-2005, 09:23 PM
Don't forget to run the latest dongle drivers.

As for the Dongle, it, as is most software with protection is pretty useless giving all the crackers out there. If someone really wanted to use the program and not pay for it, they would. Plain and simple.

For a long time Adobe's programs had keygens on the market that would onlock all their products. A firewall that blocked the program from validation is all you needed. Same with Macromedia. I personally buy all the software I use.

Even CD protection is cracked. Basically, someone in the 60's said... if it is digital, it can be cracked. There is not one thing I know to date that can't be cracked over time. Quantum encryption is CLOSE (will take a very long time by current standards), but they can tell when someone is trying to steal the key code by checking the bits. For more cracking, look at the simple DVD code string that allowed people to pirate DVD's! It was shorter then a Hello World app!!

I am in the boat with companies just abandoning trying to lock down their software and spend their time focusing on imporiving their product. Realflow has done it. All those resources are just thrown out the window within in days of a release because of the crackers converging on the software.

Not ranting really, just a POV.

TheDynamo
10-10-2005, 11:21 AM
The other potential monkeywrench in your machine could be Norton if you have it. For some reason that resource-hog of a program makes booting Modeler and Layout take minutes instead of seconds. This is even after you set them up in Norton's firewall.

-Dyn

mrnitesky
01-24-2013, 01:57 PM
I've been happily flying along in Luxology land for my main modeler. Wow - It's now 2013 and today I got a Newtek Upgrade email and decided to click it this time. The first thing I see is the New Features List. And at the top of the New Features List is:

"Dongle-Free Licensing No more dongles, enough said!"

Finally. . . Maybe I'll check it out. Enough said indeed.

Amurrell
01-24-2013, 04:08 PM
11.0.3 is already dongle free.

Cryonic
01-24-2013, 10:31 PM
11.0.3 is already dongle free.

Yep, on Windows 7 and later (and maybe Vista). And probably the latest versions of OSX :)

Serling
01-24-2013, 11:52 PM
The other potential monkeywrench in your machine could be Norton if you have it. For some reason that resource-hog of a program makes booting Modeler and Layout take minutes instead of seconds. This is even after you set them up in Norton's firewall.

-Dyn

I don't have that issue with Norton on either my laptop or desktop systems. I did, however, find it a little frustrating when Norton kept quarantining my LW executables after installing 11.03 because they were new and there wasn't enough of a user base to deem them "trustworthy" (or some such nonsense.)

I had to go into Norton and tell them to leave LightWave alone!!! :mad:

peter coley
11-15-2013, 10:25 AM
How do you get in touch with newtek from the uk to get a new dongle has mine is broken

pauland
11-15-2013, 10:48 AM
email them.

peter coley
11-19-2013, 10:29 AM
several e-mails later still waiting

pauland
11-19-2013, 10:31 AM
That's surprising. Last time I emailed them they were on the case quite quickly.

pauland
11-19-2013, 10:35 AM
You tried here?

http://www.newtek.com/customer-support-request