View Full Version : XBox 360 Middleware

09-27-2005, 02:07 AM
I wish NewTek would take game development serious, if they only would support those who want to use Lightwave to develop the artistic elements for a Game. At the Developer Xbox Middleware providers page (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/dev/tools.htm) I see Maya, Softimage and 3D Studio Max. Wish we could see Lightwave on that list.

Of course this is just a random thought.

09-30-2005, 08:10 AM
Gaming is bigger than movies now, Newtek really has to see this. There's nothing wrong with LW, its the lack of plugins and developer interest. I dunno if that's anything Newtek can do anything about, but surely including a Lightwave PLE with games such as DOOM 3 would have been the obvious solution. Let the community make the plugins... but the community has to know that Lightwave even EXISTS.

It really saddens me when I go to try to learn about how to mod DOOM 3, and the message boards are simply CHOCK FULL of people who don't even know what Lightwave or a .lwo ARE.

09-30-2005, 08:18 AM
The lack of a downloadable demo version is really letting Lightwave down. :thumbsdow

09-30-2005, 08:57 AM
The lack of a downloadable demo version is really letting Lightwave down. :thumbsdow

I've asked this before, and never got a real response... Given that a normal media kit does "Discovery Mode" without a key, could one not distribute the standard media as a demo?

I realize there would be licensing issues at present, but it wouldn't take much for Lightwave to say "[We hereby authorize you to...] Please, give a copy of CD 1 to your friends and coworkers".

-B :help: :bangwall:

09-30-2005, 03:33 PM
Unless there is some update with normal maps I dont know about, the situation isnt very good there either. I didnt notice any mention of it in version 9...?

09-30-2005, 05:49 PM
Unless there is some update with normal maps I dont know about, the situation isnt very good there either. I didnt notice any mention of it in version 9...?

I mentioned this before, but they really need to support COLLADA export format as well.

09-30-2005, 09:32 PM
As far as I knew COLLADA didn't even support COLLADA very well. Do you use it a lot? And what for?

09-30-2005, 10:02 PM
I have to agree with the general concensus here. I teach in the Game Art Design program at a well-known tech school/college. The application of choice is 3dsmax. While I am slowly and painfully learning Max to increase my arsenal of digital tools, I often do demonstration (in my introductory photoshop class) model texturing. For this purpose, I use lightwave to display the models with their textures applied. I always feel a little down when many my students have never heard of lightwave. They have heard of Max, Maya and to a lesser extent xsi Softimage. I then go into my usual defense of lightwave listing examples from television and film to give them an idea of where it is used.

The Gaming industry is HUGE. It is a fact that it generates more money than film etc. This is an area where more hype, exposure and i/o support need to be developed for our beloved package. Up until this point, I have avoided teaching the 3d courses offered at my school (and there are a lot of them) as I am stubborn and didn't want to learn Max. Now, I have been asked to teach a world building class (game level design) and I must get to grips with Max to do that. I would much rather use my preferred tool, but my supervisors will not allow it.

Max is the most common application used in game design and with built in features like Normal mapping (NO outside plugs) and very well supported input/output file format for direct export to game engines, I can't really fight for using Lightwave.

Even if Newtek decides not to develop our app in this direction, more exposure and hype need to be given to Lightwave. It is an excellent app, but I get tired of defending my app of choice to the many young students (read: soon to be the people driving the 3d industry) who are starting out with digital content creation and don't even realize that Lightwave is a player out there. It is not my job to be a walking advertisement for lightwave.



10-01-2005, 02:41 PM
I work in the industry and to be honest for every games company out there there is a games engine, so asking for one particular engine to be supported kinda seems a bit pointless. You might as well as for the HL2 engine or unreal or any number of them to be supported. When we use and engine, it's usually the engine writers who make the conversion tools, not the 3d package.

10-01-2005, 05:50 PM
What does LW need to do to imrprove the game support?

As Max and Gmax, and to a lesser extent Maya and XSI, already have this
market dominated...

So what could LW do to make it better?
.lwo is a fairly good format, and .lws and .lwo are both open formats
unlike some other applications like maya or xsi, or max.

I see exporter/importers for Grand Theft Auto, etc....
So people are making the plugins..... :)
But i dare say it's one hard market to take people away from Max.
(You don't need LW's lovely renderer)

As mentioned, it's impossible and stupid for NT to support every new engine,
no matter how popular.

Direct3D and DirectX, CG shaders, would all be benefits that LW doesn't have
that the others benefit from, but what are the others?

10-01-2005, 06:17 PM
Perhaps I was a little off base with some of my comments, but the comment about exposure still holds. Lightwave needs more exposure and hype to let people know about it. I feel disheartened whenever I mention it and people get that look on their face like a dog hearing a high pitched noise (whah?).


Perhaps I shouldn't be upset and just be happy that I can do things quicker and easier in lightwave (well some things). :hey:


10-01-2005, 09:42 PM
When I originally posted this topic I wasn't saying that NewTek should support x game engine, I was more trying to through out the idea of them supporting for instance the middleware providers. Kind of discouraging as a user of Lightwave to go to the developer site such as the new Xbox 360 and not see NewTek even listed on the map as being involved for developers for middleware. I see Avid [Softimage], Alias [Maya and Studio Tools], and Autodesk [Max].

I guess I'm just wanting to see more Industry support from NewTek on such things. It also helps to get Lightwave noticed by those that otherwise would not even take a second look at Lightwave and go straight for Maya, Max, or XSI.

10-03-2005, 02:50 AM
NT don't have the advertising of Discreet of Avid, or Alias....

I'm not sure about the middleware stuff for the 360... I read the page..
Seems more like a con for Microsoft to charge money for companies
to be mentioned in marketing for Xbox than anything else..

I agree LW should be promoted and used more in this field...
But exactly how to best achieve this, i dunno...
You can't stop snobbery, but we sure can try... :)

10-03-2005, 07:49 AM
Lightwave could be good for games if a few essential features were implimented.

-Smoothing Groups
-Geometry Instancing
-Normal Mapping in viewport/renderer
-Propper display of textures with alpha in the viewport (without having a seperate alpha map or clip map)

Just to name a few that I have had problems with trying to export to game engines and shockwave.

10-19-2005, 10:19 AM
I work in the games industry. I use LW to model 99.99% of everything I do at work & home. NO one else at work uses LW, supports LW, or has any intention of supporting LW. Apart from a couple of copies of XSI & Maya, needed for specific projects. Max is the App of choice.

The big big issue for Next Gen game development on PC & Consoles such as the 360, is (for us at least), being able to create hi poly objects, normal maps, and to be able to use shaders such as CG, & DirectX directly, as the other main apps.

LW doesn't even support DirectX other than a plugin to export .X files (do any game developers even use .x files?). As for programmable shaders, well I haven't seen any evidence.

On top of that, there is the need for experienced artists, coders & animators. Well they just ain't out there I'm afraid. Apart from the odd coves who like to torture themselves writing scripts & plugins for LW (you hearing me Dave?), they seem to be a rare breed.

I'm quite happy to continue using LW unsupported at work, and at home for freelance modelling work, where the customer only needs a UV mapped mesh, but I don't envisage my company ever using LW to create game content, cos these days, it really isn't enough just to be able to make a nice model.

10-19-2005, 05:42 PM
I'm in the same situation as Mkii. I use LW alone at work, and while we did make a major move to maya when LW was at 5.6, other packages have creapt in, so I'm not quite alone in my oddness.

And Mkii, I'm one of those rare breed :)

To be honest, I haven't really seen much in maya that couldn't be done in LW, at least in terms of games, especially since I've seen the hoops we've had to jump through to get maya to work, but I'm not foolish enough to see some big hoops in LW which need to be sorted too. The opengl stuff is a step in the right direction, but support for shading languages would probably be a big better step, as would getting the animation system to work together (like IKboost and Motionmixer for example). The modelling stuff is all there, the UV stuff I'm fine with, it's the lack of consistency with animation that really needs looking at.