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kltv
09-25-2005, 02:23 AM
Hi everybody,

A number of people have asked me about a football skin for the CG module, similar to the baseball and basketball versions I made last year for VT[3]. Up until now I hadn't been able to get my skins to work in VT[4]. Now that I've finally tracked down the problem, I've been working on building out some new updated skins for baseball, basketball and football. I'm doing final testing on these skins, but I'm not a much of a football guy... So I'm looking for feedback on this skin in particular before I finish it up. I've made some minor changes to the basketball and baseball skins too. Do these layouts make sense and am I missing anything important?

Thanks!
Kris

Tod Cole
09-25-2005, 01:20 PM
Looks like you might want to add a "+" and "-" to the downs. The downs are 4 each and add a "+" and "-" to the yards setting.

Tarheel Cougar
09-25-2005, 03:35 PM
VERY cool! Wish they would work on the Tricaster too. For top corner football graphics, some switch the graphic to the other side of the screen back and forth depending on where the offense is. (Obviously this doesn't matter if you just use a bar across the top or bottom). I'm sure that's not worth the work! If you wanted to add a few things, though they may be overkill, for football you can have time-outs left as a flag that pops out when a TO is called, maybe even with basketball too. You could also add a bonus and double bonus to basketball. Do these graphics take into account double/triple overtime?

Again, great job!

kltv
09-25-2005, 04:54 PM
Thanks for the input!

There may be an easy way to flip the bug to the other side, I'll have to think about that one. I didn't think of time-outs left. That might be useful too... Right now it just goes into "Overtime" and sets the clocks for that. I don't have double or triple overtime in there, but the clocks can be reset at the end of one overtime back to the overtime time limit.

The downs, yards and clocks are adjustable up in the display area with the little up/down arrows. I didn't have enough room at the bottom and we primarly use a Belkin Nostromo 52 to fire the scoreboard anyway. I'm setting up the little wheel on there to adjust the yardage. That way you don't have steal the mouse from the director. Those buttons at the bottom are shortcuts to get to "1st & 10" and "1st & Goal" without having to click or shortcut key too much.

I wish they would work on the TriCaster as well! We use a combination of both our large remote van, with a VT[3], and a stand-alone TriCaster. It would be nice to have that functionality in the more portable version for smaller games.

Thanks again! Hopefully I'll be finished we these this week.

Kris

nelsonm
09-25-2005, 05:58 PM
Great!

When can i get them and how much?

Darwin
09-26-2005, 08:51 AM
Please let me know when you'll have them done. We have school doing 4 more ftball games on UPN and would be interested in the plug in. Great work!
[email protected]


Thanks again! Hopefully I'll be finished we these this week.

Kris[/QUOTE]

kltv
09-26-2005, 12:06 PM
I am 90% done. I did a lot of tweaking and testing Sunday and have everything working as it should. I have one goofy problem with my clocks not setting to the default when the skin is loaded, but once you click the mode setting it is correct. I'd like to resolve that before I post them. I also need to build a couple example CG pages to send with the skins.

I also need to prepare some documentation on how to install the skins and how to use them. The CG template pages have to have their layers labeled specific names for the skin to correctly fill in the data and control the image layers. Last, I need to diagram the shortcuts for the Belkin Nostromo 52 pad loadout. If you are looking at using these skins I would really suggest picking one of these controllers up. It makes it easy for a second person to operate the scoreboard without the mouse.

I haven't really decided how to distribute them. I'm tempted to just post them here and let anybody who wants to use them download them. I guess I could do a PayPal thing or something. I'm going to try and have everything ready by Saturday.

Kris

Darwin
09-27-2005, 08:12 AM
You may want to offer the skin and hardware together. At any rate, when your CG skin & hardware skin is in use keepin score, can you utilize mouse functions else where while switching the show either with keyboard or the RS8?

thanks!

Tarheel Cougar
09-27-2005, 08:19 AM
You may want to offer the skin and hardware together. At any rate, when your CG skin & hardware skin is in use keepin score, can you utilize mouse functions else where while switching the show either with keyboard or the RS8?

thanks!
Thats where the Belkin Nostromo comes in. Whoever operates the score bug just pushes buttons on the Nostromo, and doesn't need the mouse or keyboard. That way someone else can switch the show while the score is running.

kltv
09-27-2005, 11:07 AM
Thats where the Belkin Nostromo comes in. Whoever operates the score bug just pushes buttons on the Nostromo, and doesn't need the mouse or keyboard. That way someone else can switch the show while the score is running.

Exactly! You can use the Nostromo for scorekeeping, and the mouse for normal mouse functions. You can still use the mouse to control the scoreboard too, the Nostromo justs makes it easier.

Kris

MBeck
09-27-2005, 10:07 PM
I haven't really decided how to distribute them. I'm tempted to just post them here and let anybody who wants to use them download them. I guess I could do a PayPal thing or something. I'm going to try and have everything ready by Saturday.

Kris

I PMed you about that.. let me know if I can help.

nelsonm
09-30-2005, 11:10 AM
Hi,

How does your scoreboard compare to "Score Keeper" from YoungMonkey?

kltv
09-30-2005, 01:18 PM
The YoungMonkey Score Keeper is also a really good plug-in. We seriously looked at that plug-in when we were getting setup for baseball games last year. In some ways it is smarter than my skins. You don't have to build CG templates for it, the text is automatically generated and positioned by the plug-in. It also has a lot more modes, like Tennis, Rugby, Soccer, etc. that I haven't had the need to develop yet. However, it didn't have some of features we wanted in our sports productions. I also didn't want to be running Aura to run the plug-in. At the time it didn't have a continuous display function, which we wanted (I believe it does now). It also didn't know if you switched the DSK to another source (for player name CGs) and you had to set it back to Aura manually. We wanted to be able to use base runner images, pitches, and outs in our baseball games, which are not available with the ScoreKeeper. We needed toggle image flags for home runs, replays, etc as well. Also, we wanted the ability for a second operator to control the scoreboard, without the need for the director's keyboard or mouse. Once I learned that ToasterScript allowed me to control and update the text and image layers, and make my own keyboard shortcuts that I could map to a Nostromo pad, I decided it was easier to build our own interface that matched our specific needs. I have nothing against the YoungMonkey Score Keeper, it just wasn't exactly what we needed.

Kris

kltv
10-01-2005, 01:55 AM
Hi everybody,

I now have a demo version ready for download. This version contains the basketball skin and templates only, with the Nostromo loadout file and full version instructions so you can check out how the other skins work as well. The demo skin will function for 15 minutes after loading, then reset. Take a look and let me know what you think.

Skin, Template, Nostromo File & Word doc instructions:
http://www.gurrad.com/kris/VT_scoreboards_demo.zip

HTML version instructions (for those who do not have Word):
http://www.gurrad.com/kris/VT_scoreboards_HTML_instructions.zip

Kris

P.S. I don't write a lot of manuals, so if something in there doesn't make sense, please let me know!

kltv
10-29-2005, 12:28 PM
Here is the full version of the scoreboard skins. Enjoy!

http://www.gurrad.com/kris/VT_scoreboards_3.zip

mpatty
10-31-2005, 07:58 PM
I'm Programming a Nostromo N52 and I guess that's what you've used. I have a need to create a key that would either scroll the DSK inputs or that would shortcut to a specific input on the dsk.

any ideas, because I can't find that in the shortcut directory

kltv
11-01-2005, 12:14 AM
I've done something similar to switch between my Scoreboard CG and the Player Name CG. First you need to name your DSK source inputs in the switcher. I named them CGScore and CGNames. Then you need to drop code similar to this in a toasterscript file in the user scripts for the switcher module.

CreateShortCut( "YOURSHORTCUTKEYHERE" code(

SetDSKByName(NAMEOFSOURCE)

) "Always" 2000)

We also created one to switch to the preview source and change DSK sources at the same time. I can't remember if the DSK command came before or after the SetDSK to get a clean transition, but it was something like this:

CreateShortCut( "YOURSHORTCUTKEYHERE" code(

SetDSKByName(NAMEOFSOURCE)
Take()

) "Always" 2000)

We mapped these to a ShuttlePro, since all our Nostromo keys are used and we are using the ShuttlePro to extend the RS-8 preview selectors to 12 inputs along with a few other added functions.

Kris

mpatty
11-01-2005, 06:43 AM
I've never written user scripts...but I guess it can't hurt anything. I'm using the nostromo to learn what will and will not work for one of these devices. I'm planning to go ahead and buy an xkey pad with shuttle control for the toaster. We have volunteers that use our system frequently and there are a lot of applications to learn. My thought is that if I can customize a keypad with backlit lables just as are on our Ross100 it will making both teaching and operating the toaster much easier.

I our system we have a very capable Ross100 Digital switch. We use the toaster as both the downstream source and as the streamer off of the preview side. The other thing we do is play ddr video and/or graphics as full screen video.

If you or someone else had an example script and how to use it maybe in a notepad file that would be really helpful.

kltv
11-01-2005, 07:44 PM
If you or someone else had an example script and how to use it maybe in a notepad file that would be really helpful.

That is basically it. Just copy and paste that code into Notepad and save it as "something.ToasterScript" in the appropriate User folder, I think it is VT4/Skins/TabbedSwitcher/User. That is all you need. Next time I am near the VT machine I'll try and grab that file.

There is a list of the correct codes for each possible keystroke in the ToasterScript documentation.

Kris

mpatty
11-03-2005, 09:29 AM
1. I'm not getting the scripts correct - I guess?
2. I'm not getting the patchable shortcuts for this correct - I guess?

I'll attach my scripts and if anyone dare look at them and tell me how wrong they are...I put them in the VT4/Skins/Tabbed Switcher/User scripts folder.

kltv
11-03-2005, 09:39 AM
A couple things...

I think you are limited to three keystrokes for the shortcut. I could be wrong, but I think I remember trying four and it not working.

I know you have .txt for posting them here, but make sure they end in .ToasterScript for the file in the User folder.

Looks good other than that. You can combine all four in one script if you want to.

Kris

videoevent
03-15-2006, 01:06 PM
hello , very good work the scoreboard skins.

i would need a skin for soccer with a clock from 0 to 60 minutes an from 45 - 110 minutes.

also yello and red card and changes with the numer of the changing players

where can i find something like this or how can i do it myself.

thx croy

kltv
03-16-2006, 08:09 PM
If you know simple programming, you could modify one of the existing skins I made. I can probably put together a soccer one in the next week or two if I can find some time to work on it.

Kris

videoevent
03-17-2006, 12:51 AM
i tryed to modify the football one - but the problem is the time.
not a countdown from 15 to 0 - i need a clock from 0 to 45 an then for the 2. halftime a clock from 45 to 90.
that is my problem.

thx croy

kltv
04-22-2006, 02:04 PM
I'm finally getting to work on this. I have the clocks setup. Are there any other things you might want on there? Soccer scoring is pretty simple, so I have lots of room left on the little interface.

Kris

mzafrany
04-23-2006, 03:44 PM
I'm finally getting to work on this. I have the clocks setup. Are there any other things you might want on there? Soccer scoring is pretty simple, so I have lots of room left on the little interface.

Kris


The clocks should not stop at 45 and 90. Some times you have penelty time added. A third clock sould start at 90 when you have an extention piriod (on special games when a game can not end with a tie).

How about an option to load team logo (to place near the team score)?

videoevent
05-23-2006, 09:42 AM
the logo is a good idea - also the playerchanges - yellow and red cards

Darwin
05-23-2006, 02:46 PM
Seems that Football, Basketball, Volleyball, Soccor, and Baseball are the order of popularity. Would the Soccor skins work for Volleyball?

pmisisco
05-26-2006, 09:22 PM
Glad to hear a dedicated soccer skin is in the works! Thanks for your excellent craftsmanship on these scripts. I've tweaked the basketball skin for use with both soccer and lacrosse this spring. Works like a champ. Of course, around here high school soccer clocks count down instead of up - so the only real change needed was to adjust the maxtime variable to suit the sport. No biggie.

Here's a crazy question... Can the clocks be made to count in tenths of seconds, or are full seconds about as accurate as it can do?

Thanks again -
Pete

pbct2
06-06-2006, 07:15 PM
Know Will you have the soccer scoreboard or a demo to test.:stumped:

skyytv
06-07-2006, 02:06 AM
Will there be one for soccer? And would it be able to have a clock?

skyytv
06-07-2006, 04:24 AM
Oops! I didn't read the previous posts. My bad...

Where can I download the soccer templates/skin/scripts?

kltv
06-07-2006, 12:41 PM
Sorry folks,

I have been really busy with work and moving and haven't had any more time to work on the soccer version. The base elements are in place and working. I just need to revamp the skin images and put the final touch on everything. I'll try to get to it as soon as I can.

Thanks!
Kris

PIZAZZ
06-08-2006, 08:09 PM
BTW you rock Kris. I admire your work.

pbct2
06-13-2006, 12:07 AM
The Soccer games have started for the world cup is there any way we can get the soccer version soon .Thank You.

kltv
06-13-2006, 02:01 PM
Thanks for the compliments. I will be working on it this weekend. Unfortunately, I don't have my own VT or this would go a lot faster! I have a 45 minute drive up to my old access station to do testing and modifications. I will be up there this weekend and I hope to put the soccer skin through its paces.

Kris

kltv
06-16-2006, 11:38 PM
This is what the skin looks like for now. Anything I am missing?

Kris

pbct2
06-17-2006, 07:16 AM
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:Thank You and When.:dance: :dance:

kltv
06-18-2006, 10:07 PM
Hi everybody,

I have a new version ready for the scoreboard skins. Please give the soccer version a try and let me know if it works for you. I am still tweaking it a little, so consider the soccer one a beta for now.

Also new to all four versions (baseball, basketball, football and soccer) is the ability to use multiple template pages. You can now have up to 5 different template pages. So you can have one page that is a bug on the left, one a bug on the right, one an upper third, one a lower third and one fullscreen, etc. Just click on the page number (1-5) at the top of the skin. This references the first 5 pages in your CG project. It works very well!

Here is a link to the Scoreboards zip file:
http://www.gurrad.com/kris/VT_scoreboards_3.zip

I have also finished up a skin for the DDR that adds a "Replay" button. This button automates a series of events that have to happen to do an instant replay. You should open a capture panel and start recording. Once you hit the button, here is what happens...

1. Chop the record
2. Sets the clip in point to 10 seconds from the end
3. Puts the DDR in preview
4. Sets the playback speed to 80%
5. Puts the DDR in Cue
6. Loads a set DVE in the switcher

I'm curious to see what you all think of this skin. Place it in the VT4\Skins\DDR2\MainWindow\Default directory to make it available to the DDR. Then right click on a DDR and choose the Instant_Replay skin. You'll see the new button show up to the right of the selection/project buttons. Fire up a capture panel and test it out. You can change the speed and DVE it loads in the initialization script.

Instant Replay DDR Skin:
http://www.gurrad.com/kris/Instant_Replay.zip

Enjoy!
Kris

pbct2
06-19-2006, 01:25 PM
:thumbsup:

kltv
06-20-2006, 01:09 PM
I haven't built a seperate template yet. If you load up the football one, it makes a good starting point. The only difference is that the "TouchdownFlag" should be a "GoalFlag" and the "FlagFlag" should be a "YellowCardFlag" and "RedCardFlag." I should have a new base CG template Sunday.

Kris

pmisisco
06-20-2006, 05:07 PM
KRIS! If you're ever in Washington, DC I owe you a cold beverage of your choice. Holy moley, are these changes awesome. Thanks!!!

pbct2
06-23-2006, 01:40 PM
And the goal flag and yellow or red flag does not work for me I can't link it to the skin.:stumped:

kltv
06-23-2006, 06:18 PM
They should work. I had them working during my testing. Make sure you label the layers exactly as follows:

YellowCardFlag
RedCardFlag
GoalFlag

That should do the trick. I'll try to get up to my hometown to build the new templates this weekend. If you can't make it work, let me know!

Kris

kltv
06-23-2006, 06:20 PM
KRIS! If you're ever in Washington, DC I owe you a cold beverage of your choice. Holy moley, are these changes awesome. Thanks!!!

Glad you like them! Thanks. I haven't been out to Washington, D.C. since my eighth grade field trip, it is only 3,000 miles away. I'll hold you to that if I ever get out there!

Kris

melben
06-30-2006, 01:41 PM
Hello.
Since they become these scripts? Since I do a simple chronometer, since I can do it?
Thank you!!

kltv
07-05-2006, 07:18 PM
You can do a countdown. John Perkins from NewTek posted a script that can do it, or you can look into the ToasterScript initialization file in my scoreboard skins and modify those. Here is a link to John's version: http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49512

Kris

bdmovies
08-29-2006, 04:13 PM
Kris, I adminre your work, well done. Is there any chance you could do one for volleyball? I was able to tweak the basketball one a little, but a volleyball skin would be awesome. Also, great job on the Instant Replay.

kltv
08-31-2006, 02:42 PM
Thanks for the compliments. There has also been some interest in a Hockey version. I've never done live TV of a volleyball game, so if you could list your needs for it that would help. Things like the length of any clocks, how the periods/quarters/games advance, any timout type flags. Stuff like that. I'll see what I can do, but my day job is keeping me pretty busy lately.

Kris

shrox
08-31-2006, 03:14 PM
Hey Tarheel,

My permanent residence is in Hendersonville, NC. We just hired an animator from Asheville, NC. I didn't know so many LW people were in those two cities. I am working in Corpus Christi, TX now.

bdmovies
09-03-2006, 06:55 PM
Kris,

Volleyball needs are quite simple and shouldn't be that hard at all. They include:

1- Home/Away score
2- Games Won - HS Volleyball plays best 3 out of 5, so a spot where the games won so far can be displayed.
3- Timeout
4- Instead of qtrs, they are called games. There can be 5 in total.
5- Ace
6- Replay

There are no penalties or flags. That should do it. Thanks for all your work Kris.

Tarheel Cougar
09-04-2006, 08:05 AM
Hey Tarheel,

My permanent residence is in Hendersonville, NC. We just hired an animator from Asheville, NC. I didn't know so many LW people were in those two cities. I am working in Corpus Christi, TX now.

Its a small world. I'm not an animator and my LW skills are limited to flying in a logo or something simple. But I know a few people who are very talented in that area--when I was in high school in the mid 90's (Asheville High), they taught a 3D animation class on Toaster 4000's. Then and now they televise some of their sports on cable from their own truck, which led me to this plug-in as I volunteer some Friday nights to teach students a few times a year and thought this might help make things a little easier. Good to see someone from around the mountains!

RedCorner
09-04-2006, 08:41 AM
Anyone know of any boxing or similar skins?

Would need round clock, round number, maybe then a scorecard with X number of rounds on it with fighters slots.

Cheers
Brian

jedbarish
09-04-2006, 10:29 AM
It ll be great to have a hockey scoreboard. Let us know when it comes out. I ll be doing hockey games for 16th Winter Deaflympics in Salt Lake City this coming Feb for several events.

bdmovies
09-10-2006, 08:25 PM
Any updates Kris?

bdmovies
09-17-2006, 08:46 PM
Just a thought...

Is it possible to open a textbox that allows you to type a short tidbit of info and save? If so, you can then add a button on the skin to open that textbox, save it and then add a button that adds that text to the page, similiar to hitting the "replay" button. This allows instant updates and the ability to display important information that changes throughout the game. This can then be expanded to do the crawl. Once again...just a thought.

kltv
09-18-2006, 01:08 PM
Just a thought...

Is it possible to open a textbox that allows you to type a short tidbit of info and save? If so, you can then add a button on the skin to open that textbox, save it and then add a button that adds that text to the page, similiar to hitting the "replay" button. This allows instant updates and the ability to display important information that changes throughout the game. This can then be expanded to do the crawl. Once again...just a thought.

Possibly. I tried to do this for the team names and couldn't figure out a way to get the requester to work. I haven't had any free time to work on the hockey or volleyball versions yet. My day job has been more of a day and night job lately.

Kris

vanderwielen
09-19-2006, 01:48 PM
Kris,

excellent work on your skins. how do you use standard graphics such as name tags, and other cg screens during your broadcast?

kltv
09-19-2006, 02:18 PM
When I'm doing sports I usually have two or three CGs open. One full CG Designer running the scoreboard skin, one CG Player with player CGs in it and another standard full CG Designer for any other random needs I may have, like lineups or sponsors or commentator chyrons.

Usually for players CGs I have one project for each team and the page number matches their jersey number. Sometimes I'll combine them in one project and then add an extra 1 to the other team. So a player numbered 34 would be 134 on the home team. It depends on how much setup time I have. With baseball I usually just leave them separate.

I have a little custom scripting that allows me to do a DSK source change from my ShuttlePro, which cuts between CG sources. Obviously (for now) you can't have two DSKs, so this comes in handy. I also have a script that takes the preview source and changes the DSK at the same time. This lets you be on a camera with your scoreboard, then take to another camera with their name chyron, then take back with the scoreboard. It works very well, but sometimes the VT will not do the take at exactly the same time. Sometimes the DSK is a frame or so behind the take, but usually it is right on.

I run sponsors and opens out of the DSK using DDR animations that are all preproduced and rendered out of VT-Edit with an alpha channel.

VT rocks!
Kris

vanderwielen
09-19-2006, 02:31 PM
kris, tell me your configuration for personnel during the game and their responsibilities. we have a dual screen computer with the director far right only using the RS-8 and a keyboard wedge for access to sources 9-16. a replay guy sits in the middle and controls 8 - replaytv units and I sit far left, produce, mix audio and do CGs. we shooting 8 cameras, have a sideline reporter, two in the booth and mic the 'white hatted' official wirelessly. we also have 10-12 reads with grapics and a rotating sponsor for our score bug.

I trying to visualize how to coordinate your system within our configuration and how you achieve this. (unless of course, you have a extra arm or two).

I build all the CGs in advance. We dont do in-game stats so we arent modifying the cg. my thought would be to expand your system to include player names by player-number and reads by read-number and such.

kltv
09-19-2006, 10:36 PM
I think your setup is a little more complex then what we are running. In general, we do it with two people in the truck. We have a director who calls the show, switches, does VT instant replays, player CG recall and audio mixing. And then we have the scoreboard operator who runs the scoreboard. We've found we need the scoreboard person to focus on that, since we have such a complicated scoreboard running. He also helps keep track of batting orders to help with CG cueing and makes sure the director doesn't forget to keep the replays recording on the VT. We use two ReplayTV units as a backup for instant replay and usually leave them running about 10 seconds behind real time so we can just wipe to them rather than fuss too much with cueing. If we do need to cue them, the scoreboard op does it. VT DDRs are our primary replay source. The director has both VT monitors in front of them and the scoreboard op is usually just watching the program monitor and hitting keys on the Nostromo pad to operate the scoreboard. The on-screen interface is near them, but they usually just watch program.

Usually we have commentators who are also broadcasting for local radio. So they mix their own audio between them and send us a feed. We just mix in the nat sound and music/announce for TV coverage, so it isn't too much for the TD/Director to handle. And we don't need to coordinate sideline reporters or anything, otherwise I'd want a producer in there. We have 6 cameras for baseball and 4 for basketball. We try to build all CGs in advance too, but sometimes something pops up that you want to change or add. So that's why we leave a spare CG running in the normal mode.

Kris

ncsu1
09-20-2006, 07:34 PM
hello tarheel cougar :) (i just wanted to say that because of my name)

anyway is VT_Scoreboards_3beta.zip the latest build? looking at getting started with high school games also..

i do not see anywhere to activate the skin in VT4.. and i try loading the initization script under load module maybe.. i don't remember and it just says invalid syntax.. help?

kltv
09-20-2006, 09:45 PM
Version 3 beta is the latest build until I finish hockey and volleyball. I haven't yet updated the documentation to reflect the new soccer version, but here is a link to the instructions. That should get you started... http://www.gurrad.com/kris/VT_scoreboards_HTML_instructions.zip

Kris

ncsu1
09-21-2006, 05:04 AM
I was more refering to the documentation then anything. Once I get to the part where I need to load the skin after making a template, I can't load the skin

Tarheel Cougar
09-21-2006, 06:34 AM
I was more refering to the documentation then anything. Once I get to the part where I need to load the skin after making a template, I can't load the skin
I thought I would respond to a wuffie. :hey: I don't have our VT handy and it was a few months ago when we installed the skins.
I don't remember where we activated the skin. Seems like we right clicked on a CG designer module either on the bar at the top or somewhere in the window, and there was the activation. It took me awhile to find it. If you have any more trouble I'll see if I can get someone to find out.

Jared

kltv
09-21-2006, 09:12 AM
Seems like we right clicked on a CG designer module either on the bar at the top or somewhere in the window,

That is correct. Right click on the title bar and select the appropriate skin. The instructions I linked to above do explain all that. See the "Scoreboard Operation" section, it even has pictures!

Kris

ncsu1
09-21-2006, 06:08 PM
yeah, never mind I'm an idiot. it runs great!

jedbarish
09-22-2006, 11:03 AM
How soon will you release Volleyball and Hockey scoreboard skins?

kltv
09-22-2006, 12:54 PM
How soon will you release Volleyball and Hockey scoreboard skins?

Probably at least two or three weeks. I don't have a lot of time to work on it at the moment. And, as I've said before, I don't have a Toaster close to me. I have to commute up to my home town 45 minutes away to work on it.

Kris

invica
09-24-2006, 09:31 AM
I use the shuttle pro to controll my DDR's on my VT 4.6 system. I use two DDR's for replay and I use the suttles to control them. I have a third DDR open that i use the mouse to control and I use that strictly to play back my commercials for sports. I have the shuttle set up to hit one botton on each to start recording, then hit the same button to stop recording, A second button will put the ddr onto the preview bus and rewind the clip and set it into a slow mo playback. I transition to it and it plays. I then hit the second button on the second ddr and it palaces it into the preview bus and when the first relay is done it rolls the second. Problem. I have the first DDR record the Main in and the second record what ever source I have sellected on the preview buss. After about 3 times recording, When i start the DDR's recording, They will both stop and give me a capture error. I am designating two different drives for them to record to, but I cant find the solution. A buddy of mine turned me on to this with the controllers and its a great set up, but can't get past this problem. Any suggestion. Also, Being able so set up my shuttle to toggle through the CG windows that are open would be a major help. Lastly, if I can't get the DDR's working, whta is this ReplayTV everyone is using. Is it like a TVO and how convenient is it to use. Is it possible to use a shuttle controller with it? Any input is greatly appreciated.

Chad

Sledgehammer
10-03-2006, 06:07 PM
YES!

I have a client that was drooling over the old version, and have been trying to get them to work on the VT4.

This is wicked cool. I can't wait to jump on this and give you some feedback.

Kim Henderson
T.S. Computers

kltv
10-08-2006, 04:30 PM
I'm finishing up photoshop skin file for the Volleyball version. Does this look like it covers everything you are expecting with all the buttons you need? Most of the script changing is also close to finished. I just want to make sure I haven't missed something since I haven't done volleyball for TV.

Kris


Kris,

Volleyball needs are quite simple and shouldn't be that hard at all. They include:

1- Home/Away score
2- Games Won - HS Volleyball plays best 3 out of 5, so a spot where the games won so far can be displayed.
3- Timeout
4- Instead of qtrs, they are called games. There can be 5 in total.
5- Ace
6- Replay

There are no penalties or flags. That should do it. Thanks for all your work Kris.

ncsu1
10-08-2006, 04:55 PM
Looks good, but what do the pages do? (for all of them?)

kltv
10-08-2006, 05:07 PM
Looks good, but what do the pages do? (for all of them?)

Those allow you to populate mutliple format pages with the data. You can have up to 5 different template pages. So you can have one page that is a bug on the left, one a bug on the right, one an upper third, one a lower third and one fullscreen, etc. It comes in very handy!

Kris

vanderwielen
10-08-2006, 05:51 PM
kris, we do volleyball on tv. we play best of 5 games. in the past, i made a score bug 5 columns wide by 2 rows. the first 3 columns have a white background, while the final 2 are grey (since they are optional). i would score the game as you would expect by updating the score in the correct row (visitor or home) as the game is being played. when the game is over, i make the background of the game, on the winning row only, turn green. that way, it's obvious the game is over. as soon as the 4th or 5th game is started, the grey background turns white. i think the one thing about volleyball and perhaps tennis, would be to show the score of the game, not just the number of games... if at all possible.

on another note. though i've downloaded your skins and scripts and looked them over, i'm still stumped about using them.... for this reason: during a football game, we have 16 reads, 16-20 info screens (coach smith is 56-14 in his 5th year and blah blah). probably 40 nametags, credits, a large score placard after breaks AND our score bug is sponsored per quarter, so the sponsors logo is built into our score bug (we use a fox box, but it's on the bottom).

we shoot 6-8 cameras and just as many replay decks. the director is literally an octopus. i run the cg and have to pre-load the cg or say "nametag ready" and hot switch the cg over the bug .... then back. changing the DSK source might be an option but if at all possible i'd want to keep it as the CG. have you considered buttons for pre-built lower thirds? i'd have the buttons assigned to player numbers or some other easily understood method. just a thought. i wonder how others do this?

bdmovies
10-08-2006, 07:11 PM
Kris, everything looks good. Thanks for all your hard work. By the way, when I'm photoshoping my graphics, what size do I build them on?

kltv
10-08-2006, 07:39 PM
i think the one thing about volleyball and perhaps tennis, would be to show the score of the game, not just the number of games... if at all possible.


I was afraid it might be kind of like tennis with the games/sets type situation... I think it is definately possible. I just haven't tackled that larger mess yet since it involves quite a bit more logic and smarts from the skin to be able to handle all that. Plus it would involve a lot more draw/do not draw hidden elements in the actual CG template, which could be tough to help the end user recreate in their look. I'd have to really map that out, and so far I haven't had a need for it since we don't do volleyball or tennis.



on another note. though i've downloaded your skins and scripts and looked them over, i'm still stumped about using them.... for this reason: during a football game, we have 16 reads, 16-20 info screens (coach smith is 56-14 in his 5th year and blah blah). probably 40 nametags, credits, a large score placard after breaks AND our score bug is sponsored per quarter, so the sponsors logo is built into our score bug (we use a fox box, but it's on the bottom).


We use separate CG modules for this reason. One CG module runs this skin and provides any score information. The second one is for everything else. I added the PAGE 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 buttons (once I figured out I could) that allows you to switch to different types of templates. Five may not be enough in your situation, but this lets you have a full screen format, a lower third format, and a page for each sponsor layout. You just click to the other page and it repopulates the different format with all the information. I can add more pages, there really isn't a limit. Those pages could also potentially have no score information at all in them if you wish. It would just hot-change to that page. As long as you didn't name any of the text fields the special names the skin uses, it would be fine.

The way we deal with this is to run a second or sometimes a third CG module for all non-scoreboard related items. This includes player CGs, reporters, commentators, credits, etc. I've added some ToasterScript to the Switcher to allow a shortcut key assigned to a ShuttlePro to switch between the DSK sources. That basically does the same thing you are doing, but it also allows you to preview the CG you are going to switch to before you click on it. I also have a ToasterScript command that changes DSK sources and cuts cameras at the same time. That lets you cut to the close-up of the player with their name font and then back to another shot with the scoreboard. I'm curious how you are updating the scoreboard without it looking funny, say going from 9 to 10. You see it type 1, then 0 right? You have to fade out the DSK before changing it to keep that clean. And how are you changing the color of the background boxes on the fly? With the color picker using shapes?




we shoot 6-8 cameras and just as many replay decks. the director is literally an octopus. i run the cg and have to pre-load the cg or say "nametag ready" and hot switch the cg over the bug .... then back. changing the DSK source might be an option but if at all possible i'd want to keep it as the CG. have you considered buttons for pre-built lower thirds? i'd have the buttons assigned to player numbers or some other easily understood method. just a thought. i wonder how others do this?


I hear that. I think if you try the multiple CG modules you might make it easier on yourself. I can show you the scripts for switching the DSK sources, it is literally three or four lines of script. This could be assigned to a ShuttlePro, Belkin Nostromo or any other device and your CG operator could have control, or the director. When I direct I do the DSK switch, so I can have control and also because I can switch cameras at the same time. These skins really make it a heck of a lot easier for scoring. We've been doing it with at least two CGs for years and it has worked very well for us. It also gives you the option to be building or modifying other CGs without taking the scoreboard out and makes all scoreboard updates clean. You don't even have to do the math in your head to add points. Plus you can add all sorts of other things like the clocks or replay/touchdown/foul type flags. And in baseball we can effortlessly do the pitch count and base runner imagery. I couldn't do scoring by highlighting and typing in the number. It was just too hard.

Kris

kltv
10-08-2006, 07:46 PM
Kris, everything looks good. Thanks for all your hard work. By the way, when I'm photoshoping my graphics, what size do I build them on?

You have two options, depending on what makes sense to you and what version of Photoshop you have. Video has this nasty problem called pixel-aspect ratio that you have to watch out for.

Usually what I do is build my graphics at 720x540 in Photoshop. Once I'm ready to transfer it out the parts to the Toaster I scale down the file to 720x486 and save out PNG files.

If you have a newer version of Photoshop (later than 7 I think) you can build your files at 720x486 and set your pixel-aspect ratio to D1/DV. Photoshop will help you keep your fonts and graphics from being distorted by the aspect ratio. They even have a preset in the New document window for it.

I prefer the 720x540 scale down method though. It works better for me.

Kris

jedbarish
10-09-2006, 05:50 AM
Good job with VB... looking forward to add it in my system. How's about Hockey?

kltv
10-09-2006, 07:15 PM
Good job with VB... looking forward to add it in my system. How's about Hockey?

I'll get to it as soon as I can. I'm gonna have to start charging for these!

Kris

taddski
10-09-2006, 09:26 PM
The skins look awesome! Thanks for spending the time.
New jersey

vanderwielen
10-15-2006, 10:17 AM
kris, i found your basketball template, but did you every post your cg templates for soccer, football and baseball?

kltv
10-15-2006, 07:37 PM
kris, i found your basketball template, but did you every post your cg templates for soccer, football and baseball?

I've recompiled my zip file. I went back and looked and I didn't include the updated templates in the last beta version download. Don't ask me why, I don't remember... I must have been rushing to get the soccer skin out there for testing. A new and better download is now available and contains everything at:

http://www.gurrad.com/kris/VT_scoreboards_3.zip

I went in and updated my documentation as well and included both Word and HTML instructions in this zip instead of separating them out.

Kris

kltv
10-15-2006, 07:49 PM
Everyone,

I'm looking at making some major overhauls under the hood of all the skins and I'm looking for your input. What features would be nice to add to these skins? What have you seen on ESPN that you wish you could do? I am working on adding Volleyball, Hockey, Tennis and Handball versions to the list within the next month. What else? While I'm at it I'll be cleaning up the code behind them all and this would be an excellent opportunity to add new features. I'm open to any ideas! If you are using the skins now, shoot me an e-mail and let me know how they are working for you. I'd like to put together an e-mail list so I can update everyone if I release updates. I'm also curious how many people are using the example templates and if you've made your own templates.

Thanks!
Kris
[email protected]

ncsu1
10-15-2006, 07:56 PM
Probably not able to keep accurate but maybe tenths of a second..

Major one: prompt to put time on the clock
drop down to put any type of text is prompts are possible
fade between pages
show which team calls a timeout, same for flags in football

thats all i can think of for now

kltv
10-15-2006, 09:39 PM
Probably not able to keep accurate but maybe tenths of a second..


I can extend it out to tenths of a second, but without some kind of direct trigger from the official scoreboard, I'm not sure it would be worth it.


Major one: prompt to put time on the clock
drop down to put any type of text is prompts are possible


I haven't been able to make a requester that allows for those kinds of data input yet. I'm still trying, because that would be easier than clicking the little arrows to tweak the time or editing the text in advance.



fade between pages


I can't do anything the CG module can't do, but I could force the DSK to fade out if it is in, change the page, then fade the DSK back in. Would that work?



show which team calls a timeout, same for flags in football


I can do that. I can have the team name extracted from the score box and used in the timeout type or flags. Great idea!

Kris

vanderwielen
10-16-2006, 07:15 AM
Kris, i installed and played with your scoreboard templates and skins for 14 hours Sunday! To remind you, we're commerical and produce more sports that any other station in Indiana (85+ yearly). I took my existing fox box lower sixth score line, relabled the objects and built some others to make it work. It was cool, though I have to restate that users must revert to the original NORMAL skin before shutting down!

I visualize that with VT5 and the dual layered CG capabilities, your program would be dedicated with CG1, while another with players names and such would be CG2.

What program do you use to create your PNG files?

Here's my take:

In commerical sports production, the easiest sell for advertising are the 'specials', such as the "joe car dealer field condition report", the "local hospital injury report", sponsored starting lineups, pregame, half time, post game, and virtually any other reason to put a sponsors name on the screen... including reads. here's a read, "Bob's restaurant on 1st street reminds everyone to stop in after the game and get 10% off their post game meal". along with that, the read has a lower third graphic. we also have a sponsor by quarter and his logo is on the lower 1/6th ...far right.

99% of the CGs are built ahead of time.

Here's some improvemens that would help us and maybe others:

Make the quarters PNG files, not text. I modified your script to make them say 1st instead of 1st QTR. The pro's never say QTR as it's implied. By making it a PNG file, i could include the sponsors logo along with the words 1ST.

Somehow the Score needs centered. I put my score within a white box. when the score is either 'left to right' or 'right to left' it's framed to the right or left of the white box. currently, using arial bold, i put a space in front of all single digit scores and that centers it (for some reason which is beyond me...but try it).

I agree that a fade would be nice within your skin, but i know that feature is only in the switcher. So, I'd suggest including an 'out to switcher' button. I know in our case, there are times with the CG guy boo boos and wants the CG removed to fix it. But, the director (octopus in our case) is busy.

The 5 page buttons are nice, We'd use page 2 as our full screen scoreboard that we typically go out or come into from break. But, if there was a way to include literally an ulimited number of page buttons, or better yet, a way to enter a page number then 'take' that would allow use to place all of our CGs at the disposal of the CG opertor. example 6,7, take would place page 67 to air. then have a 'home' button to return to page 1.

There's some automation that would be nice such as removing the timeout or flag icon if the operator starts the clock starts in football.

I'd like to use your software, but I have to figure out how to easily fire those other CGs during the game without switching CG sources or thru some form of automation that is independent of the director.

The future of your scoreboard software is probably huge with VT5 and it's dual layered CG. I'd be interested in hearing from someone at NEWTEK if and how it would integrate. They might considering including the 'fade' feature within the CG designer too.

ncsu1
10-16-2006, 02:19 PM
I can extend it out to tenths of a second, but without some kind of direct trigger from the official scoreboard, I'm not sure it would be worth it.
yeah. true.




I can't do anything the CG module can't do, but I could force the DSK to fade out if it is in, change the page, then fade the DSK back in. Would that work? that would speed up the process, yes that would work :)




I can do that. I can have the team name extracted from the score box and used in the timeout type or flags. Great idea!

Kris

great! :)

kltv
10-17-2006, 12:00 AM
Kris, i installed and played with your scoreboard templates and skins for 14 hours Sunday!


Wow! I couldn't ask for a more thorough evaluation. Thanks!


I visualize that with VT5 and the dual layered CG capabilities, your program would be dedicated with CG1, while another with players names and such would be CG2.


I agree. We do that now, with a switch between DSK sources, but it would be nice to have the scoreboard stay in while adding a player lower third or other graphic.



What program do you use to create your PNG files?


All the template graphic files and even the skins start their lives in Photoshop.



Somehow the Score needs centered. I put my score within a white box. when the score is either 'left to right' or 'right to left' it's framed to the right or left of the white box. currently, using arial bold, i put a space in front of all single digit scores and that centers it (for some reason which is beyond me...but try it).


I've been fighting that battle for a while. There are no justification options in the CG. I did try the right to left option, but it just typed in the numbers backwards. It was very confusing. One option I've considered was to have the skin automatically shift the type as additional digits are added. But that would have to be customized based on each person's graphic look and fonts, and every page could be different, so I'm hesitant to code it in. I've feature-requested a "Tab-Field" Chyron-style with justification options, force caps, etc.



I agree that a fade would be nice within your skin, but i know that feature is only in the switcher. So, I'd suggest including an 'out to switcher' button. I know in our case, there are times with the CG guy boo boos and wants the CG removed to fix it. But, the director (octopus in our case) is busy.


I could add complete DSK control to the skins. I can send commands to the switcher from the CG to fade/cut the DSK out. I could also code in DSK source switching to some extent, which might solve your next issue as well.



The 5 page buttons are nice, We'd use page 2 as our full screen scoreboard that we typically go out or come into from break. But, if there was a way to include literally an ulimited number of page buttons, or better yet, a way to enter a page number then 'take' that would allow use to place all of our CGs at the disposal of the CG opertor. example 6,7, take would place page 67 to air. then have a 'home' button to return to page 1.


I agree here too. I'll see what I can do. The trouble I have at the moment is that I can't do an input box for entering text or a page number. I could add a page selection and take function, but you'd have to click some kind of plus/minus system to get to the page number. That would work, but not very practical for large numbers. I might be able to integrate a numeric keypad of some kind. I'll investigate that option.



There's some automation that would be nice such as removing the timeout or flag icon if the operator starts the clock starts in football.


An easy one! Good call, easily done.



I'd like to use your software, but I have to figure out how to easily fire those other CGs during the game without switching CG sources or thru some form of automation that is independent of the director.


Adding DSK control and some kind of page entry numerical pad might make this better for you. I'll put that at the top of my list.



The future of your scoreboard software is probably huge with VT5 and it's dual layered CG. I'd be interested in hearing from someone at NEWTEK if and how it would integrate. They might considering including the 'fade' feature within the CG designer too.

I've feature-requested that fade or transition effect as well. Dual DSKs solve a lot of problems as well. I'm looking forward to that. A M/E bank would be swell too. Thanks for all your input!

Kris

PepeWan
10-17-2006, 07:30 AM
Here are my suggestions for a volleyball bug:
Add flags for Game Point and Match Point.
This is a style thing, but put the match score on a flag (e.g., "NEB leads 2-0", "Match tied 1-1") as opposed to next to the team names.
We put the collected game scores on a lower third instead of on the score stripe.
Around here everybody uses rally scoring, so the service indicator isn't really needed; you should probably have a way to turn that off if it isn't needed.

Again, these are style things, so it really depends on what the producer wants.

I don't actually use a VT, so if you've already addressed these, cool.

vanderwielen
10-19-2006, 07:20 AM
Kris, as I continue to play with your skins, my mind is asking me questions I can't answer. (figure that one out)

I know you use the shuttle pro for an entry device. how difficult would it be to add the use of the shuttle pro, or an xkeys device, to the main CG skin? In other words, what i visualize is that the shuttle or xkeys simply be programming to update fields such as FlagFlag?

The problem using CG Designer in the typical configuration is positioning the cursor correctly on a score change and it's virtually impossible to hide a box or object on-the-fly during a game.... all the reasons your program is so intriguing.

As much as I like your program, I still need quick simple access to the nearly 100 CG pages that we typically build prior to the game, and the ability in the future, to update the CG on the fly with stats.

I would love someone with Newtek to provide an general overview of the intent of the new CG so we can begin to visualize.

thanks again for your work.

kltv
10-23-2006, 11:05 AM
Sorry, I've been out of town on a gig for the last week.



I know you use the shuttle pro for an entry device. how difficult would it be to add the use of the shuttle pro, or an xkeys device, to the main CG skin? In other words, what i visualize is that the shuttle or xkeys simply be programming to update fields such as FlagFlag?

Actually, I use a Belkin Nostromo52 keypad for running the scoreboard. I've mapped almost every single function that can be done via the mouse to a keyboard shortcut that can be accessed from the Nostromo or any other programmable device. The only things not currently available are the page changing commands and the rules changing commands.



The problem using CG Designer in the typical configuration is positioning the cursor correctly on a score change and it's virtually impossible to hide a box or object on-the-fly during a game.... all the reasons your program is so intriguing.


Exactly why I made it! :) All I wanted at first was a way to easily update the score without highlighting a box and punching in the number, especially because the scores for bugs are kinda small. Once I figured out what else I could do, I went a little crazy with it.



As much as I like your program, I still need quick simple access to the nearly 100 CG pages that we typically build prior to the game, and the ability in the future, to update the CG on the fly with stats.


I got confirmation from Newtek that I can't launch a text entry box to punch in text or numerical data for fields, so I can't directly do a page entry function in my skin. I might just try copying the mask color from the page entry box on the normal skin and see if that works. If it doesn't, I am confident I can add a numerical keypad style page entry section with a "TAKE" button.

I suppose another option would be to rethink the complete reskinning of the interface. Right now, I completely take over the entire interface to simplfy it down to a small size and hide all the extra gadgets. It might be possible to leave most of the interface intact and just change part of it to add the scoreboard controls. I'll have to go back and look at the default skinning again and see what the options there are.



I would love someone with Newtek to provide an general overview of the intent of the new CG so we can begin to visualize.

thanks again for your work.

Thanks. I'm looking forward to the next version as well.

Kris

vanderwielen
10-23-2006, 01:20 PM
played more with your software....

do you watch the scoreboard with a auxillary camera to verify the time, down and distance? i guess you'd either have to do that or have someone on an intercom channel communicating it back to you.

i have a dual display on my vt4. therefore, i'm spoiled with having substantial real estate for vt windows, audio mixer, ddrs and even cg designer. if folks have a single monitor, it might be desireable to use your skin since it's smaller. yet, i'm also thinking that most cg operators will use the cg designer. so, adding your buttons to that skin might work best as you can still have direct access.

today is monday, oct 23. our game is currently playing at www.htv19.com and again at 7pm Eastern. you can take a look at how we use a fox type box along the bottom.

thanks.

kltv
10-23-2006, 02:45 PM
played more with your software....
do you watch the scoreboard with a auxillary camera to verify the time, down and distance?


Yes. We position a Canon VCC4 cheapo camera on the official scoreboard and set that up on a monitor right in front of the scoreboard operator. I'd still like to come up with some way to magically sync them automatically, but I haven't tackled that huge issue yet. It would be nice though.

I'll try to watch your game and see what you have going. I love to see what others are up to. I just finished a week long handball tournament in California.

Kris

Rangers4me
10-30-2006, 08:05 AM
Any chance of getting this working on the Tricaster Pro?

Sledgehammer
10-30-2006, 06:00 PM
Any chance of getting this working on the Tricaster Pro?

Well, since the TriCaster Pro doesn't have the same CG as the VT, I would say not.

lithiumpro
10-30-2006, 07:35 PM
Hay i have been running this script on my VT4 for the past month and have had problems with the software freexing up and then rebooting it self, or i have to reboot it and get thing back up and running during the game. I use the scorring trought the whole game, so this can be frustrating when it crashes. I have been doing some test this weekend and have found when i use the scripts that they keep eating up system memory little by little. When i tell the skin to go back to normal it stops.... Is it me or has anyone else had this problem to.

Could there be something in the script and VT4 that is causing this.

:help: :help: :help:

kltv
10-31-2006, 12:42 AM
Could there be something in the script and VT4 that is causing this.


I suppose it is possible. I haven't had any problems with them and nobody has e-mailed me any outstanding issues with them that I am aware of. Is there a specific skin that is giving you a hassle or do they all? They all function basically the same, so if there is some kind of leak it should be in them all. I routinely get through full basketball and baseball games with no problem.

I've had the basketball skin running here for about 20 minutes now and memory useage seems pretty stable across the board. Physical memory is hovering around 1,593,000 K, and pretty constant as is the page file at about 400MB. I'll let it run for a while and see if it starts creeping up.

Kris

kltv
10-31-2006, 01:23 AM
Well, since the TriCaster Pro doesn't have the same CG as the VT, I would say not.

I think the possibilty is there with the TriCaster's CG. I think it is basically the CG Templates module from the VT. I just don't have the documentation on either to attempt it. I tried it with the TriCaster and tried guessing what the commands would be, but I didn't guess correctly and had to give up.

Kris

lithiumpro
11-08-2006, 10:40 AM
I use the football skin. What i have noticed is that when i min VT4 and go back that the memory is released and then go back to going up. Dont know what really is going on their in the script. But when you go back to normal it stops and then you go back to the skin later and away we go.

One other thing not so tech. I want to modify the football screen so that i still have the upper 3rds but have one that has both the upper 3rds and like a logo or text to fill the center of the screen, for when we go to commercial break to put sponcors up. I have tried and the text is there in Normal mode. But when i go to the skin nothing is their. Any help..

skyytv
11-18-2006, 04:59 AM
This is wonderful! Being able to produce sports live!

We've just started an indepedent TV station and currently have viewership of just over 30,000. I managed to convince my boss to purchase 2 VT4 machines and hopefully we should be producing live sports in 2008 when the African Cup Of Nations soccer tournament begins. I'm pretty sure with the Scoreboard skin and a few CG pages running we can produce brilliant results with our regional division one soccer league (which we have the rights to).

All this is great...but do you think you could do a skin pack for news and other live programs? What do you use to design your plugins?

kltv
11-18-2006, 03:07 PM
I use the football skin. What i have noticed is that when i min VT4 and go back that the memory is released and then go back to going up. Dont know what really is going on their in the script. But when you go back to normal it stops and then you go back to the skin later and away we go.

That is very interesting. I'll look and see if there is anything I can do. One option I've been looking in to is getting away from a full dedicated window and just adding a panel to the CG instead of taking it over. That would eliminate the use of layer images to indicate all the scores and status markers, which are the only thing I can think of that would take up any memory.



One other thing not so tech. I want to modify the football screen so that i still have the upper 3rds but have one that has both the upper 3rds and like a logo or text to fill the center of the screen, for when we go to commercial break to put sponcors up. I have tried and the text is there in Normal mode. But when i go to the skin nothing is their. Any help..

You should be able to do that without a problem. Make sure that in the Layout tab the text does not have any of the labels assigned to any of the "hideable" flags. Those are automatically hidden by the skin when it starts up. Anything else should stay put and be visible. You should be able to have your normal scoreboard on page 1 and the sponsored version on page 2.

Kris

kltv
11-18-2006, 03:14 PM
All this is great...but do you think you could do a skin pack for news and other live programs? What do you use to design your plugins?

What would you like to see in a skin for news production? Or maybe you mean a package of graphic templates? My day job is Design Director for a broadcast station, so I make news graphics all day long. :)

I use Photoshop to design both the interface skins and the actual on-screen graphic templates.

I write the programming for the skins in Notepad (GASP!, yes Notepad) using the reference from NewTek's ToasterScript documentation. It also involved a LOT of trial and error.

Kris

skyytv
11-19-2006, 02:10 AM
Our news involves alot of graphics including crawling text, picture-in-picture and full cg pages. My main headache is typing in news updates (in the crawl) using the CG Designer. Its so clumsy and time consuming and apart from that, someone would always have to be sitting in front of the VT4 workstation. It would be nice if the CG Designer could extract the files from a text file and have it updated on the crawl in realtime. Maybe over a network too.

Paul Lara
11-20-2006, 10:51 AM
It would be nice if the CG Designer could extract the files from a text file and have it updated on the crawl in realtime. Maybe over a network too.

Well, CG Designer cannot do this, but thanks to some clever third party plugins (http://www.youngmonkey.ca/hands/restaurant/plugins/DataOverlayer/index.html), you CAN do this!

Data Overlayer, as its name suggests, has the capability of generating overlay graphics using data retrieved from external sources, including: MySQL databases, Text and XML files, RSS internet feeds, and more. Professional overlay generation of live data (weather, sport, voting, product sales, stock market, etc.) is not only possible... it's simple too - whether you are streaming live to the internet, broadcasting for television, or editing pre-recorded footage.

It's only $200, which is a small price to automate your regular tasks!

Paul

skyytv
11-20-2006, 12:44 PM
I checked that site out but the plugin seems to be three years old. Would it work with VT4? I don't have a credit card and wondering if I could buy through another means. Maybe via post?

ncsu1
11-20-2006, 01:35 PM
It would work with VT4

BELLE1RaceComm
03-21-2007, 02:40 AM
Do you do anything motorsport wise?

invica
03-21-2007, 09:36 AM
I have had the exact same problem. I did 18 football games live in the fall, and had no problems with the system freezing or locking up. I have done 36 basketball games live, and have had the system lock up or freeze at least 25 of the 36 games. I thought it was something i was doing, but i didn't see the problem during football, and the entire production process is the same with replays, graphics and whatnot. I got so frustrated, I purchased a Tricaster, set it up to be a redundant system for cameras 1,2,3 and commercials, simple little scoreboard and any neccessary stillstores and audio. I then have an AB switch to switch between the two so I can reboot by VT 4.6. I thought it was me, but maybe not. I can't figure out what has changed since football, but the only thing I can see is the difference in the Scoreboard skins. If there is an answer, I am all ears. I must say in closing though, these skins are amazing and they really give our events a real high quality look and feel. We have been awarded state playoffgames for highschool championships and have now moved in to college and pro sports from our coverage being seen and enjoyed by many. Thanks for the skins. There awsome. If you do know of anything that can be causing the crashes, please let me know. Also, lithiumpro, are you running the newer scripts or the older ones. I am running the older ones becuase I just today notice the new ones with the five pages buttons available. I don't know if I upgrade to the new (Which I Am) will help or not, but any input from others is GREATLY Appreciated.

Chad

lithiumpro
04-25-2007, 10:51 PM
I was using the new ones with the 5 buttons on the top.
All i could ever trace it down to was a memory leak.
The memory kept climbing when i had the CG in all the time and i think it just ate up all 2 gig. Sometimes it would lockup the computer in second and other half the game and sometimes no problems at all. But the only thing i could only point out is if i had the scoreboard skin loaded the memory would keep adding up and when i changed it back to normal ir would not do that.

Hope this helps a bit.

invica
05-27-2007, 05:06 AM
Does anyone know if there is a skin out there like the football, basketball etc. that is for TENNIS. I have a tennis mach to do the end of June and I love the other skins and would like to keep my look consistant by usning a tennis skin scoreboard.

Thanks
Chad

griffiths
08-08-2007, 12:40 AM
We just purchased a Tricaster, we have been on a below par computer running VT 4.6 and the Scoreboard Skins Worked awesome, but now that we have the Tricaster I wondered if there is anyway to integrate this into it? please please please please help!

Ahmed
08-17-2007, 09:34 PM
Hi everybody,

A number of people have asked me about a football skin for the CG module, similar to the baseball and basketball versions I made last year for VT[3]. Up until now I hadn't been able to get my skins to work in VT[4]. Now that I've finally tracked down the problem, I've been working on building out some new updated skins for baseball, basketball and football. I'm doing final testing on these skins, but I'm not a much of a football guy... So I'm looking for feedback on this skin in particular before I finish it up. I've made some minor changes to the basketball and baseball skins too. Do these layouts make sense and am I missing anything important?

Thanks!
Kris

Kris,

This is misleading... this is not football, it is American FondBall. Football is a game that is played using your foot, not hands. And no, we will never say soccer. You must find a your own label for this sport. I suggest Fondball (Fo)ot + Ha(nd) Ball

Sorry, the English Premiere League just started.. and tomorrow Chelsea is play Liverpool. And we are not in the mood to compromise.

Dr. Cross, your game is being hijacked.

ncsu1
08-18-2007, 12:24 PM
the majority if not all people using it are calling it football

billmi
08-25-2007, 08:15 AM
While a lot of people don't realize it, the language spoken in the US, is not the same as that spoken in the UK. British English and American English have the same structure, but their vocabulary is not entirely the same, while that can be confusing when the same word had a different meaning in other languages (when I was in high school a foreign student loudly asked me in the middle of class for a contraceptive device, expecting to borrow an eraser) it's just a fact of life.

I wouldn't expect the Dutch to stop calling the game voetbal, the Greek stop calling it ποδόσφαιρο, the Italians to stop calling it calcio, or the Americans and Porteguese to stop calling it soccer.

m4a2000
08-28-2007, 03:30 PM
Hi Kris, I had just called KLTV to see how they came up with that live graphic thing they show on the NewTek website and they said to find you. After reading the last few pages I have to say that you should call NewTek and ask to be hired on. I was woundering if you could repost those links to the downloads, or if you're selling them how much do you want.

kltv
09-05-2007, 09:00 PM
Hi,

I got the message about your call. Thanks for the compliments. I hope to do some updates as soon as VT[5] comes out, but here is the link to the last version I released: http://www.gurrad.com/kris/VT_scoreboards_3.zip at the documentation in HTML format is at: http://www.gurrad.com/kris/VT_scoreboards_HTML_instructions.zip

Kris

m4a2000
10-07-2007, 12:11 PM
We just had a live football game and your add on worked with out any problems! Thanks again and If I get the chance I'll upload some of the pictures of it inuse...

mhenstell
10-12-2007, 08:44 PM
Very nice skins, thank you! I was just wondering, is there a possibility of the hockey skin being released soon? I am trying to use the football skin and it mostly works, however, every time I close out of CG designer and open it up again after loading one of your templates, I get a Script Error: "Bad PageNo Parameter"

Has anyone encountered this? Thank you very much

ncsu1
10-12-2007, 11:06 PM
I forgot off the top of my head if the soccer one allows you to count time down, if it does that would probably be best. I don't think it did though...

When you are closing out of CG Designer are you going back to the normal skin first? Or are you just closing it with the skin still open? I think when you still have the skin open it causes problems later. Or at least it seemed like I read that.

mhenstell
10-13-2007, 11:25 AM
I was closing it with the skin still open, but switching back to the normal skin first solves the issue. I just have to make sure no one closes it accidentally, the only solution is a CTRL-ALT-V-T and a module reset. Thanks!

teh_duke
10-18-2007, 09:43 PM
I work for a student run television station at the university I attend and we just purchased the VT[4] to work as our flight pack for remote multicam productions. I just have to say, you are an amazing man.

I have been looking over these scripts for a while (ever since we decided to puchase the VT4) and I have to admit that I have also been drooling in anticipation to try them out. All I can say is, :bowdown:

One question that I have for you is how do you alter the script in order to get the soccer game timer to countdown from a set time rather than count up? In any game we are going to produce for, we will be having a count down time for the periods. Please let me know if this is possible.

Also, I would gladly pay for these scripts, they are so amazing. Thank you for posting them.



---------
Chris Payne
mtsutv.org

ncsu1
10-19-2007, 05:21 AM
Don't know if that is possible, but you could alter the Football package a little to make it work. Just make the text on the touchdown flag say 'goal' and the flagflag say yellow card and the timeout flag say red card and what not. then you just have to adjust the time and it should work.

Troylaflin
10-29-2007, 07:32 PM
I am a student in an advanced video class at my hogh school and we bought a VT 4 at the end of last basketball season and we did not get to try out the score board graphics but now that football season is over we are prepping for basketball and we were trying to use the basketball score board with high school rules. but we encountered a problem in that the skin used to control the score board graphic does not up date the graphic. any help would be greatly appriciated thanks

ncsu1
11-02-2007, 06:08 PM
So will this work right away with VT5 or will it need some minor/major modifications? Any possible new features with a possible update.. possibly something new with any new features of VT5?

kltv
11-05-2007, 11:10 PM
One question that I have for you is how do you alter the script in order to get the soccer game timer to countdown from a set time rather than count up? In any game we are going to produce for, we will be having a count down time for the periods. Please let me know if this is possible.


I think what I can do is make it both ways as an option in the next version. When I first built it people were looking for an up counter. The modification to count up isn't difficult. Just swapping a few + signs in for the - signs and changing the default and reset counters.

Kris

kltv
11-05-2007, 11:14 PM
I am a student in an advanced video class at my hogh school and we bought a VT 4 at the end of last basketball season and we did not get to try out the score board graphics but now that football season is over we are prepping for basketball and we were trying to use the basketball score board with high school rules. but we encountered a problem in that the skin used to control the score board graphic does not up date the graphic. any help would be greatly appriciated thanks

Are you using your own look or are you using one of the templates I packaged with it? If you build your own look, you must be sure to label the layers correctly under the layout tab of the CG Designer. For example, here are the basketball naming conventions:

Basketball Template Layers:
BaseImage -
A background image for the scoreboard

VisitorName -
The name of the visiting team (manually entered by you before loading the skin)

HomeName -
The name of the home team (manually entered by you before loading the skin)

VisitorScore -
The visiting team score

VisitorScore -
The home team score

Period -
The current period of play (formatted as 1ST QTR, 1ST HALF, etc. or FINAL)

GameClockCounter -
The current time remaining in the period (formatted as 20:00, 5:00, etc.)

GameClockFlag -
A separate background image behind the game clock. Toggles off and on with the game clock counter to allow the clock to be hidden.

ShotClockCounter -
The current time remaining on the shot clock (formatted as 9, 8, etc.)

ShotClockFlag -
A separate background image behind the shot clock. Toggles off and on automatically when less than ten seconds remain on the shot clock counter.

FoulFlag -
An image indicating a foul (will toggle off and on)

TimeOutFlag -
An image indicating a time out (will toggle off and on)

ReplayFlag -
An image indicating an instant replay (will toggle off and on)

kltv
11-05-2007, 11:16 PM
So will this work right away with VT5 or will it need some minor/major modifications? Any possible new features with a possible update.. possibly something new with any new features of VT5?

I don't know yet. I haven't had my hands on the VT[5] software yet. I did have to make modifications between VT[3] and VT[4], but I think that was because of some bug fixes in the CG module. It might work right away if the scripting is still intact. I'm still looking forward to seeing what changes have been made to the CG and if there are any new features to exploit.

Kris

brians0105
11-09-2007, 10:46 AM
FYI - I am testing the sports scoreboard skin today with our install of VT5. The only problem I'm noticing is that the scoreboard, when keyed in, flickers.

When I am in CG designer, I select "Out to Switcher", bring in the CG as the DSK and it looks fine. However, when I switch to the basketball or other sports skin, the graphic begins to flicker. Not the entire graphic, just the edges. I don't know how to technically explain what is happening, but on my VT Vision PGM monitor, when I have it displayed with Fielding Off it looks fine. With Fielding on, it flickers. With my program and preview out of the SX-84 it is also flickering.

I'll try to explain in more detail later, but it could be just our system, even though the skins worked well with VT4.

Brian

brians0105
11-10-2007, 08:27 PM
Anyone else test the skins with VT5 yet? I was unable to figure out anything today when I tested it again. When I'm in the CG Designer Normal skin, the scoreboard keys perfectly. But when I switch to the BBall skin, the DSK begins to flicker.

Thanks for any ideas!

Brian

kltv
11-11-2007, 09:31 PM
Anyone else test the skins with VT5 yet? I was unable to figure out anything today when I tested it again. When I'm in the CG Designer Normal skin, the scoreboard keys perfectly. But when I switch to the BBall skin, the DSK begins to flicker.

Thanks for any ideas!

Brian

Is it a constant flicker or a once per second kinda flicker? The reason I ask is that clocks redraw every second in basketball, and that might do something in the new version.

Kris

brians0105
11-12-2007, 05:58 AM
Kris, it is a constant flicker, definitely many times per second.

Brian

mhenstell
11-12-2007, 10:25 AM
drat! I use these extensively for our Hockey games (I spent hours modifying the Football skin to work), so I guess I can't upgrade yet. :grumpy:

brians0105
11-12-2007, 11:04 AM
mhenstell, it is possible that it our system, since I don't think anyone else has commented on the sports skins with VT5. Hopefully Kris or another member can test them out on a VT5. That will let us know if it is a problem with our setup, or if it will affect everyone.

Brian

nsdV
11-12-2007, 06:36 PM
I have also finished up a skin for the DDR that adds a "Replay" button. This button automates a series of events that have to happen to do an instant replay. You should open a capture panel and start recording. Once you hit the button, here is what happens...

1. Chop the record
2. Sets the clip in point to 10 seconds from the end
3. Puts the DDR in preview
4. Sets the playback speed to 80%
5. Puts the DDR in Cue
6. Loads a set DVE in the switcher

I'm curious to see what you all think of this skin.


First off, I LOVE your scoreboard skin! It's great. I went out and bought the belkin key pad and it works GREAT.

I was wondering if there's a way to combine the replay flag in the scoreboard skin with the replay skin in the DDR.

So when you push the key to load the replay flag it then loads the DDR into the Preview bus and then does an " auto take" then once the replay is over, the replay flag is removed. Does this make sense?

I'm sure all of this could be done in a toasterscript but I'm not sure which one (inside the score board script or inside the replay script) Also, I'm VERY new to all of this so I really doubt i could write the script myself.

kltv
11-13-2007, 05:23 PM
First off, I LOVE your scoreboard skin! It's great. I went out and bought the belkin key pad and it works GREAT.

I was wondering if there's a way to combine the replay flag in the scoreboard skin with the replay skin in the DDR.

So when you push the key to load the replay flag it then loads the DDR into the Preview bus and then does an " auto take" then once the replay is over, the replay flag is removed. Does this make sense?

I'm sure all of this could be done in a toasterscript but I'm not sure which one (inside the score board script or inside the replay script) Also, I'm VERY new to all of this so I really doubt i could write the script myself.

Thanks! I'm glad it works well for you.

I think that is possible. I'd probably approach it by adding a command from the DDR skin to tell the CG to put in the replay flag at the appropriate time. The trouble would be in getting it to remove itself at the right time. I don't always stay on the replay the entire length of the clip. Also, I don't have the replay automatically auto-transitioning, it just waits in preview for the TD to execute. I could add that functionality pretty easily, but then the replay would automatically roll as soon as it cued. If that works and there is a set duration on the replay clip, I could send both on and off triggers to the CG. It might also make sense to place that on another button that would roll the replay and trigger the CG. You'd have to push that button separately from the original replay button. Does that make any sense?

Kris

nsdV
11-13-2007, 06:55 PM
Also, I don't have the replay automatically auto-transitioning, it just waits in preview for the TD to execute. I could add that functionality pretty easily, but then the replay would automatically roll as soon as it cued.

Kris

No, I wouldn't want it the replay to roll until a key is pressed. I just thought the button that triggered the "replay Flag" could also be the same button that rolled the replay. (Program a pause and then a hot key for the replay into the belkin keypad macro)

ncsu1
11-13-2007, 07:36 PM
so other opinions of if the skin works without flickering.. wondering if it was an isolated issue posted on page 9

brians0105
11-13-2007, 07:45 PM
I tried re-installing VT5 and the sports scoreboard skins today with no luck... still flickering over here.

brians0105
11-19-2007, 09:31 AM
Anyone been able to try the sports skin w/ VT5? We have a basketball game next Friday (11/30) and I'm trying to figure out what to do... I either need to uninstall VT5 and install VT4 or I need to record the game w/ out graphics and do them in post.

I'll probably have to go back to VT4.

Any ideas, anyone?

Thanks

Brian

ncsu1
11-19-2007, 01:51 PM
same thing here

brians0105
11-19-2007, 09:13 PM
Thanks ncsu1. At least I know it's not just me. Looks like we'll have to revert back to VT4.6 for our basketball games and re-install VT5 for our main live school broadcasts (because we are already using the LiveSets in a live environment).

Here's to hoping Kris can get to look at the skins on a VT5 soon!

Brian

ncsu1
11-19-2007, 09:17 PM
Haha I'm sorry I just realized how badly phrased my post was. I meant I was also on the fence on VT5 or VT4 because I also have a basketball game to do next Friday.

brians0105
11-19-2007, 09:47 PM
Gotcha! Well, if you DO decide to go to VT5 after your game, let us know how your sports skin works. Maybe someone else will chime in before then!

Brian

brians0105
11-20-2007, 01:22 PM
So, after several hours of more testing (in preperation of our first home-game next Friday) I finally figured out a temporary solution to our flickering.

I recorded a test segment with the sports scoreboard keyed over a live camera. On our monitors, it is still flickering. When I playback the recorded clip, it is flickering.

However, if I render out the recorded clip to a progressive video file, the flickering disappears.

So to get our game to air, it will take a little post-production rendering, but hopefully it will work for the time-being.

Now, since I'm not too sure as to why this happens, does anyone have any ideas... or can you explain why progressive will make it better?

Thanks

Brian

nevmoor
11-20-2007, 04:44 PM
I am not expert bit if the progressive render gets the flicker out it sounds like a fielding order issue with the skin output.
I think when you render progressive it combines 2 fields into one full frame.

lvsoule
11-20-2007, 09:29 PM
do these skins show up on the DSK? are they actually triggers for what really shows?

D3Cast
11-23-2007, 01:10 PM
do these skins show up on the DSK? are they actually triggers for what really shows?Well, in VT[4], you just right click (anywhere?) in CG Designer and -- if the Scoreboards are all in the right directories -- you can change to the correct skin to actually keep score for the specific sport.

However, I can't figure out how to change the skins in VT[5]. For those of you who have got this "working" (or almost working) in VT[5] -- how do you change the skin to the correct scorekeeping skin? Do I have stuff in the wrong directory?

-steve

D3Cast
11-23-2007, 01:22 PM
"Duh, gee, Tennessee, Mr. Whoopie says maybe you should put the skin folders in the .zip file into the VT[5] program folder, under c:\Program Files\NewTek\VT5\Skins\CG\Large\Main\Default. Duh, just like it says in the instructions."

"Thanks, Chumley! Phineas T. Whoopie, you're the greatest!"

I hate feeling like Chumley.

-s

brians0105
11-23-2007, 01:34 PM
"Duh, gee, Tennessee, Mr. Whoopie says maybe you should put the skin folders in the .zip file into the VT[5] program folder, under c:\Program Files\NewTek\VT5\Skins\CG\Large\Main\Default. Duh, just like it says in the instructions."

"Thanks, Chumley! Phineas T. Whoopie, you're the greatest!"

I hate feeling like Chumley.

-s

Steve,

It sounds like you're testing out the skins in VT5. Have you got it working yet? If you read above in this thread, you will see that I have been having problems with the score CG flickering on my program out monitors using VT5 and the skins.

Are you having any luck?

Thanks

Brian

kltv
11-23-2007, 01:43 PM
I am not expert bit if the progressive render gets the flicker out it sounds like a fielding order issue with the skin output.
I think when you render progressive it combines 2 fields into one full frame.

The skin shouldn't really effect the way the CG module draws the pages. It doesn't change anything there. All it really does is simplify entry in the text fields and hide/show layers. It could be that the CG module in VT[5] doesn't like having the main window where you normally modify pages not shown. I could see that disrupting how it outputs.

Kris

kltv
11-26-2007, 12:27 AM
So to get our game to air, it will take a little post-production rendering, but hopefully it will work for the time-being.



Well, that's a pain in the rear. I'd like to make that go away for you.

Brian, do you happen to use the Nostromo pad with the scoreboard? The access station I volunteer at is not planning on getting VT[5] until sometime next year and I'd like to test a theory and get it running before then. I could do a quick modification to add some of the keyboard shortcut logic that drives the Nostromo in the normal CG module. If you'd be willing to test that on VT[5] for me, I can get a test script ready for you.

Kris

PIZAZZ
11-26-2007, 08:16 AM
Well, that's a pain in the rear. I'd like to make that go away for you.

Brian, do you happen to use the Nostromo pad with the scoreboard? The access station I volunteer at is not planning on getting VT[5] until sometime next year and I'd like to test a theory and get it running before then. I could do a quick modification to add some of the keyboard shortcut logic that drives the Nostromo in the normal CG module. If you'd be willing to test that on VT[5] for me, I can get a test script ready for you.

Kris

Kris,

To help you get these skins up and running. Please contact me. I will loan you a VT Card to test things with.

You have my contact info.

Talk to you soon.

brians0105
11-26-2007, 04:01 PM
Kris,

I have been thinking about getting this Nostromo from Best Buy -- http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6184764&st=Nostromo+&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1067389784805

Will this controller work with your skins?

If you would like me to test something, I can probably pick one of those up soon.

Also, do you think that has anything to do with the flickering in VT5?

Brian

ncsu1
11-26-2007, 04:05 PM
Yeah, that controller works.

kltv
11-27-2007, 12:06 PM
Kris,

I have been thinking about getting this Nostromo from Best Buy -- http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6184764&st=Nostromo+&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1067389784805

Will this controller work with your skins?

If you would like me to test something, I can probably pick one of those up soon.

Also, do you think that has anything to do with the flickering in VT5?

Brian

Yep that's the one. There is a file included in the original zip file that loads the keyboard shortcut configuration designed to work with that controller. It works great!

Jef is hooking me up with a VT[5] to test with, so hopefully I can get these skins revised and running in the next few weeks.

Kris

brians0105
11-27-2007, 12:36 PM
Great! Jef to the rescue!

We will hang in there for our basketball game friday and just render the game to progressive afterwards.

This will be our first game with the sports skins... AND our first time using the VT for sports. I'll probably purchase the Nostromo after this game and we will use it for our next game in early January.

Thanks Jef and Kris.

Brian

nsdV
11-27-2007, 12:50 PM
Great! I'll probably purchase the Nostromo after this game and we will use it for our next game in early January.

Brian

The Nostromo works great but I'm going to look into buy the X-Keys product. If you have different people running your equipment they are nice becasue you can label your keys and don't get confussed on what is what. They are definitely more money but in the long run, I think it's worth it. They also have more keys for other options (programing hotkeys that VT uses).

http://www.piengineering.com/xkeys.php

nsdV
11-27-2007, 12:54 PM
I've been messing with the Replay skin that Kris posted. I've added two more replay buttons to make a total of 3. You can edit the toasterscript and change how much of a "replay" you get and the speed for each button. Would anyone be interested in the new skin.

Also, does anyone know of a way to add a text field so you can change the cue in and replay speed on the fly.

-Andrew

Teddy Bear
11-27-2007, 04:47 PM
I am in Canada and would really like to have your product made for hokey

Thanks

ncsu1
11-27-2007, 05:03 PM
You could just modify one of the scripts. Probably the best to modify is basketball if you are trying to have a power play clock. But without that, any of the scripts would work pretty well, minus baseball.

m4a2000
11-27-2007, 08:45 PM
I copied the NFL graphics as best I could from FOX and used your plug-in, minus the clock, to get the following that is attached. Some fonts are not standard, so that might make some of the text change. However, this is just to show what a little time, and some ones great plug-in, can make.

Right now I'm working on Basketball graphics. We are putting a girls game and a boys game live, back to back, Dec. 6th. As of right now I am looking at five different graphic sets. Two using your plug-in KLTV, two for stats, and one for a 20 minutes mid-game show... Four hours of live high school sports... I'm going to need a lot of luck to pull this off...

kltv
11-27-2007, 09:12 PM
I am in Canada and would really like to have your product made for hokey

Thanks

I have a version of hockey somewhere that I was working on. I'll see if I can dig it up.

Kris

kltv
11-27-2007, 09:15 PM
Also, does anyone know of a way to add a text field so you can change the cue in and replay speed on the fly.

-Andrew

I was never able to figure out a way to do that either, at least using ToasterScript. There isn't a call to pop up anything with text entry. That has to be done deeper.

Kris

D3Cast
11-29-2007, 07:41 PM
I have a version of hockey somewhere that I was working on. I'll see if I can dig it up.Dig, Kris, Dig! I'm tired of using my crappy iVGA scorebar to manually manage "when the 4-on-3 expires, then there's 27 seconds left of a 5-on-3, then 42 seconds of a 5-on-4." Makes my head hurt.

I'll help finish the logic, if necessary...

-steve

PIZAZZ
11-29-2007, 09:08 PM
I was never able to figure out a way to do that either, at least using ToasterScript. There isn't a call to pop up anything with text entry. That has to be done deeper.

Kris

Kris, just thinking out loud but you might be able to do a joint module or maybe a highly modded DDR for playback with the Edit Properties module embedded. There is a section for playback speed there. I of course use my skins with the Edit Properties button all the time. You can't do a smooth change in speed during a replay but you can indeed change the speed during playback. It takes a moment to change the speed.

BTW. No sleep for Kris tonite. He has a VT Card and software to install...

UPS details
Delivered On: 11/29/2007 11:05 A.M.
Location: FRONT DOOR

Tarheel Cougar
11-30-2007, 09:06 AM
I thought I noticed the other day and I may be wrong, but can you smoothly change the speed if you click on the crouton of the video to manually scrub and drag it back and forth with the mouse, instead of clicking on the various speed dots?

kltv
11-30-2007, 11:41 AM
BTW. No sleep for Kris tonite. He has a VT Card and software to install...

UPS details
Delivered On: 11/29/2007 11:05 A.M.
Location: FRONT DOOR

I had to postpone the install until tonight! My crazy day job kept me at work until 10:30 last night. D'oh!

Kris

brians0105
11-30-2007, 08:52 PM
Just an update-

We did our first game tonight with the VT5 and Kris's scoreboard. Love the scoreboard! Thanks so much!!!

We had the flickering issue, but on Monday I'll render it to a progressive video file, which will get rid of the flicker.

Thanks Kris!

Brian

kltv
12-01-2007, 08:23 PM
Just an update-

We did our first game tonight with the VT5 and Kris's scoreboard. Love the scoreboard! Thanks so much!!!

We had the flickering issue, but on Monday I'll render it to a progressive video file, which will get rid of the flicker.

Thanks Kris!

Brian

I'm glad it is working for you! I got VT[5] installed today and my original theory appears to be correct. The new version of the software does not appreciate that I have hidden away the normal canvas for editing the CG. After a little testing today, I've found that adding it back in seems to correct the issue. Putting it back in shouldn't be much of an issue, but it will make the interface a bit larger than my DDR-sized version. I'm working on redesigning the skin interface now to accommodate for the big old window. On the bright side, that means I can probably leave in the ability to edit the text...

If there is anything else anybody would like to see integrated, let me know since I'll be tinkering anyway. I plan on adding DSK controls to let the CG operator fade in and out the graphic and a few other things.

Kris

brians0105
12-01-2007, 08:45 PM
After a little testing today, I've found that adding it back in seems to correct the issue. Putting it back in shouldn't be much of an issue, but it will make the interface a bit larger than my DDR-sized version. I'm working on redesigning the skin interface now to accommodate for the big old window. On the bright side, that means I can probably leave in the ability to edit the text...

I'm glad to hear that you think you can fix the issue! I have no idea what exactly you're talking about, but as long as you know that's all that counts! Can't wait to see the new version of the scoreboard skin when you get it finished.

Brian

PIZAZZ
12-01-2007, 08:59 PM
Kris

Congrats!!

I just emailed you about something related. Check it out and get with me asap.

Slickster
12-01-2007, 09:28 PM
would it be difficult to add a time input for the clock - cause sometimes we get way off the time and when we try to click +/- to sync we crash the clock.

btw: we love using your scoreboard skins!!!

m4a2000
12-01-2007, 11:07 PM
I was setting up grapics for a basketball game that goes live this Wednesday and something nutty was going on. I was testing the graphics and I could only change one page's data (Points, flags, ect.). Should I keep working at this or is it something I have to live with?

kltv
12-02-2007, 12:37 AM
would it be difficult to add a time input for the clock - cause sometimes we get way off the time and when we try to click +/- to sync we crash the clock.

btw: we love using your scoreboard skins!!!

Thank you! I think I've got an idea about how to do that... Stay tuned.

Kris

kltv
12-02-2007, 12:40 AM
I was setting up grapics for a basketball game that goes live this Wednesday and something nutty was going on. I was testing the graphics and I could only change one page's data (Points, flags, ect.). Should I keep working at this or is it something I have to live with?

Are you saying that if you click on one of the page selection buttons at the top it isn't updating the second page or that it doesn't ever update the second page? I'd double-check and make sure the layers are labeled correctly on the page that isn't updating. The scores and images have to match the specific labels that the skin is looking for.

Kris

mhenstell
12-02-2007, 11:20 AM
Bug: We love the scoreboard skins, but occasionally the clock will glitch - while running normally, suddenly the 10s place of the seconds will have a dash instead of a number, and nothing short of clearing the clock will fix it. Also, when we try to correct the clock past 59 seconds, say its at 13:59, and we hit plus one second, the clock will then display 14:60, then minus one will make it display 14:59, and the cg skin will display a random image because it cant handle a 6 in the 10s place, and we have to clear it again.

Feature: I don't know if this is possible, but it would be awesome to be able to enter a time to start from manually, I know sometimes I miss it when I have to direct at the same time. Or maybe even just plus minus buttons under each place (+/- 10 min, +/- 1 min, +/- 10 sec, etc).

Feature: It would also be awesome to have the clock switch from mm:ss to seconds and tenth of seconds when in the last minute of play.

And as long as I'm piling stuff on, an official hockey version with a seperate penalty clock would be nice :D

Please let me know if I can help you test any scripts on my VT5! I'm not well versed in toaster script, but I've spent countless hours analyzing your scoreboards (and modifying them for hockey and for my shuttle pro)

Thanks for all your hard work kris! :D

m4a2000
12-02-2007, 11:23 AM
Are you saying that if you click on one of the page selection buttons at the top it isn't updating the second page or that it doesn't ever update the second page? I'd double-check and make sure the layers are labeled correctly on the page that isn't updating. The scores and images have to match the specific labels that the skin is looking for.
Kris
I made sure that everything had the labs and it's not updating at all. What will update is on page 1, on page two it will not update when I switch pages, or when I do the change right to the page... I'll keep working at it, but if I can't figure it out by late Monday I'll post my work here. Maybe you could see what the problem is.

nsdV
12-02-2007, 02:59 PM
I thought it would be cool to show which team called the Time Out. (this could also be used for Fouls in Basketball Penalty flags in Football) Basically the flag would appear beside or below the team that called the time out. Also, time outs remaining...on ESPN football there's three little yellow dashed above the teams name. These dashes disappear as the are used up.

Last, in basketball, adding a small graphic by the team that is in the bonus--over 7 fouls/Double bonus-10 fouls. The scoreboard skin would not keep track of the fouls, the user would jsut have to click to turn on the bonus or double-bonus flag.

I was going to make some ESPN-looking graphics and thought about adding adding (making a seperate flag) the HOME / AWAY penalty flag feature.

You are getting quite the WISH LIST...if you need any help with graphics let me know.
-Andrew

nsdV
12-02-2007, 03:14 PM
I alway thought it would be cool to sync the school's scoreboard with the VT computer that you are using. The scoreboards that they use at our school are wireless and the signal could be captured with another reciever. It's made by Daktronics.
http://www.daktronics.com/sports_prod/images/5000_wireless.jpg

The hard part would be figure out what to do with that signal and how to get the info into your CG editor. This would eliminate a lot of work by the VT user. The clock, quarters, score, etc. would all be updated automatically. Anyone have any ideas? What type of scoreboards are other schools using?

http://www.daktronics.com/sports_prod/dak_sports_products.cfm?section=ControllerSPORT

kltv
12-02-2007, 03:31 PM
I made sure that everything had the labs and it's not updating at all. What will update is on page 1, on page two it will not update when I switch pages, or when I do the change right to the page... I'll keep working at it, but if I can't figure it out by late Monday I'll post my work here. Maybe you could see what the problem is.

Definitely post it if you can't figure it out and I'll take a look.

Kris

kltv
12-02-2007, 03:45 PM
Bug: We love the scoreboard skins, but occasionally the clock will glitch - while running normally, suddenly the 10s place of the seconds will have a dash instead of a number, and nothing short of clearing the clock will fix it. Also, when we try to correct the clock past 59 seconds, say its at 13:59, and we hit plus one second, the clock will then display 14:60, then minus one will make it display 14:59, and the cg skin will display a random image because it cant handle a 6 in the 10s place, and we have to clear it again.

Which sport are you using when this is occuring? I've never seen it get a dash in there. The only reason I could think of is that it went into negative numbers for some reason. And I thought I had all of them forced not do that or the "14:60" type behavior. I'll see if I can duplicate that.



Feature: I don't know if this is possible, but it would be awesome to be able to enter a time to start from manually, I know sometimes I miss it when I have to direct at the same time. Or maybe even just plus minus buttons under each place (+/- 10 min, +/- 1 min, +/- 10 sec, etc).


I think I've got a way to resync the clock with text entry. That is definitely on the list.



Feature: It would also be awesome to have the clock switch from mm:ss to seconds and tenth of seconds when in the last minute of play.


That may be possible. I'm a little hesitant to do it since it implies an accuracy with the official clock that doesn't really exist. But I think I could do it, maybe make it optional.



And as long as I'm piling stuff on, an official hockey version with a seperate penalty clock would be nice :D


I'm on it. Thanks for your feedback!

Kris

kltv
12-02-2007, 03:52 PM
I thought it would be cool to show which team called the Time Out. (this could also be used for Fouls in Basketball Penalty flags in Football) Basically the flag would appear beside or below the team that called the time out. Also, time outs remaining...on ESPN football there's three little yellow dashed above the teams name. These dashes disappear as the are used up.

Last, in basketball, adding a small graphic by the team that is in the bonus--over 7 fouls/Double bonus-10 fouls. The scoreboard skin would not keep track of the fouls, the user would jsut have to click to turn on the bonus or double-bonus flag.

I was going to make some ESPN-looking graphics and thought about adding adding (making a seperate flag) the HOME / AWAY penalty flag feature.

You are getting quite the WISH LIST...if you need any help with graphics let me know.
-Andrew


Great ideas! Thanks! I may have to split these into two versions, a simple and advanced. Just so it isn't overwhelming for people who just want a simple scoreboard.

Kris

kltv
12-02-2007, 04:01 PM
I alway thought it would be cool to sync the school's scoreboard with the VT computer that you are using.

Me too. I thought about it for our local station as well. Even getting just the clock in there would be very helpful. The local college uses a Daktronics scoreboard as well and they shared the documentation they had with me but I've never had time to really sit down and spend time trying to do it. It would probably require a separate app to be reading serial data coming in and then firing the appropriate information into the VT's CG.

Kris

ncsu1
12-02-2007, 05:30 PM
Which sport are you using when this is occuring? I've never seen it get a dash in there. The only reason I could think of is that it went into negative numbers for some reason. And I thought I had all of them forced not do that or the "14:60" type behavior. I'll see if I can duplicate that.

I've had this happening in football, but basketball seems to be fine

mhenstell
12-02-2007, 06:21 PM
I am using a version of the football scoreboard that I modified for hockey. I changed a few things around, deactivated a lot of the football buttons, altered the behavior of the Quarter buttons (to work for periods), changed the default clock times (20min with 5min overtime), but nothing that I believe should have made the clock go into "dash mode" randomly (this happened a few times in testing, once during a game, but the rest of the games it was solid).

the 14:60 problem on the other hand is always reproducible (I believe).

I wish someone at NewTek could fix the CG module, I liked having the small scoreboard skin so our audio person could do both.

nsdV
12-02-2007, 06:29 PM
I remembered one other thing...

A possession "flag" or dot by the team that has the ball in football. They do this on ESPN and CBS football score bugs.

You could even do a possession arrow (jump ball) for basketball...a little dot by the teams name would work although this is not something the network bugs incorperate.

ncsu1
12-02-2007, 06:36 PM
For basketball I just dropped use of the foul flag and added yellow box around each team and named one as the FoulFlag and one as the TimeoutFlag, effectively creating the Timeout flag for each team.

kltv
12-02-2007, 06:39 PM
I've had this happening in football, but basketball seems to be fine

Ah, I see it now. It seems to happen if you reset the clock and then try to increase it. I must have some extra error correction in the basketball one that didn't make it into the football one. That should be an easy fix.

Kris

kltv
12-02-2007, 06:46 PM
I wish someone at NewTek could fix the CG module, I liked having the small scoreboard skin so our audio person could do both.

It isn't really their fault... I'm totally Frankensteining their interface to make it work. But it won't be too bad. It's bigger at 538x648 (it used to be 426x282), but not as big as the smallest you can make the normal CG at 800x600. Here is a little preview of the work-in-progress basketball version.

Kris

kltv
12-02-2007, 06:48 PM
I remembered one other thing...

A possession "flag" or dot by the team that has the ball in football. They do this on ESPN and CBS football score bugs.

You could even do a possession arrow (jump ball) for basketball...a little dot by the teams name would work although this is not something the network bugs incorperate.

I have something like that in the Tennis one for serve. I can add that to the other versions too.

Kris

mhenstell
12-02-2007, 06:56 PM
That looks awesome :D So, was the problem that the preview of the CG wasn't displayed that caused the flicker? Because that looks like the only thing significantly different from the old skin. Is there any trick to making your skin interfaces? Or is it just a lot of photoshopping and telling the script the boundaries of each button?

kltv
12-02-2007, 07:32 PM
So, was the problem that the preview of the CG wasn't displayed that caused the flicker?

That seems to be the cause. Putting it back in there also returns the ability to make manual changes, which isn't a bad thing.


Because that looks like the only thing significantly different from the old skin.

I took some stuff out of that preview image... didn't want to spoil anything. :hey: That is just my inital run to make sure everything still works. New things are coming.


Or is it just a lot of photoshopping and telling the script the boundaries of each button?

You've got it. A lot of Photoshop and a lot of scripting. I think the football one is something like 2,000 or 3,000 lines of code. The new basketball version crossed the 3,000 line mark today.

Kris

ncsu1
12-02-2007, 07:59 PM
suggestion: if the DSK is active on another source, will hitting the fade button make the current source fade out before fading in the bug, if possible?

oufan_DJ
12-02-2007, 10:03 PM
I alway thought it would be cool to sync the school's scoreboard with the VT computer that you are using. The scoreboards that they use at our school are wireless and the signal could be captured with another reciever. It's made by Daktronics.
http://www.daktronics.com/sports_prod/images/5000_wireless.jpg

The hard part would be figure out what to do with that signal and how to get the info into your CG editor. This would eliminate a lot of work by the VT user. The clock, quarters, score, etc. would all be updated automatically. Anyone have any ideas? What type of scoreboards are other schools using?

http://www.daktronics.com/sports_prod/dak_sports_products.cfm?section=ControllerSPORT
Our school has this score board controller too. Is there any way we could figure out how to use this with the :vticon: ?

nsdV
12-02-2007, 10:21 PM
Our school has this score board controller too. Is there any way we could figure out how to use this with the :vticon: ?

Just throwing this out there but could you figure out which wires or combination of wires the reciever uses to turn things off an on and then hook it up to something like this
http://www.xkeys.com/pigraphics/grxkeys/xsi576.jpg

http://www.xkeys.com/xkeys/xkswi.php

This is an X-Keys product that connect to different types of switches...in our case the scoreboard reciever and sends keyboard inputs to the computer (macros). This could tie directly in to the CG editor just like the Nostromos pad.

I'm sure there's a pulse that turns the clock on and then another that turns it off.

Could it work?

nsdV
12-02-2007, 10:43 PM
http://www.daktronics.com/manuals/ED11976_REV16_full_document.pdf

The tech drawings start on about 332. I think wireless is the way to go but I'm sure there's a way to connect with the wire outputs. I know our old scoreboard was the same brand but not wireless. It used a 1/4 phone plug to connect the scoreboard to the controller.

nsdV
12-03-2007, 10:06 AM
I called Daktronics to collect some information. First, I was getting a price on a All Sport Wireless reciever which they said was around $425. I then was asking how the wireless reciever "talked" to the scoreboard and told the salesman what we are trying to do. He then told me that daktronics sells a CG generator that works with the All Sport 5000 control box.

http://www.daktronics.com/sports_prod/dak_sports_products.cfm?section=All_Sport_CG

I'm not sure how you would get all the camera to have the CG since all the camera switching is happening inside VT. I also don't think you would have that much flexiblity on layout, design, or size. I'm waiting for a local sales rep to call me. Hopefully I can get some more info and we can get is to work with Kris's CG scoreboard bug.

kltv
12-03-2007, 10:45 AM
http://www.daktronics.com/manuals/ED11976_REV16_full_document.pdf

The tech drawings start on about 332. I think wireless is the way to go but I'm sure there's a way to connect with the wire outputs. I know our old scoreboard was the same brand but not wireless. It used a 1/4 phone plug to connect the scoreboard to the controller.

That looks similar to the documentation I saw. Since that phono plug is not packed full of conductors, I'd put money on a RS232 data connection between the scoreboard and the control panel, in both wired and wireless modes. What we'd need to do to get that working is find a way to take the receiver and connect it to a PC's serial port and take a look at the incoming data. It is probably 9600 8-N-1 and if you get the pins right, you should be able to see the data in HyperTerminal at least, but I don't know if it would make a lot of sense. It might be Hex codes or something.

Kris

nsdV
12-03-2007, 12:14 PM
I spoke with a local tech from Daktronic about some of the possibilities using their products.

The All sports CG has a price of $850.00 (wired version) The cost for the radio version is $ 1,275.00. Like I said before, this would only be outside of the VT software and therefore only work with one camera (inline before the signal goes into VT). Or you connect it to your output signal but then the CG would not be part of your webstream video.

They also have a stat program that streams to the web (html, I suppose) This what the email said, "We have a product that is used with our DakStats software that data streams directly to the web, called WebCast. This takes information from the scoreboard console to a laptop and then onto the web link." I'm not quite sure how this works. I waiting for more info.

This guy was really interested in what we are trying to do and might have a few other solutions. He is going to call the main office. I told him that a lot of people are starting to use Newtek's products (VT and TriCaster) and that Daktronics might be interested in developing a product that works with the VT CG editor.

Basically the wireless reciever is connected to the scoreboard with only 4 wires. Two of them are the power and the other two connect to the scoreboard driver (LED) switch panel.

Now I'm waiting to hear from someone in the home office about a solution.

Cuppyprod
12-03-2007, 01:24 PM
I'm glad it is working for you! I got VT[5] installed today and my original theory appears to be correct. The new version of the software does not appreciate that I have hidden away the normal canvas for editing the CG. After a little testing today, I've found that adding it back in seems to correct the issue. Putting it back in shouldn't be much of an issue, but it will make the interface a bit larger than my DDR-sized version. I'm working on redesigning the skin interface now to accommodate for the big old window. On the bright side, that means I can probably leave in the ability to edit the text...

If there is anything else anybody would like to see integrated, let me know since I'll be tinkering anyway. I plan on adding DSK controls to let the CG operator fade in and out the graphic and a few other things.

Kris


The only other feature other than those already mentioned would be a way to right justify the text. Ie. when the score is 14 to 7, the 7 is always left justified and looks odd. The new clock reset feature discussed (reset minutes or set to specific time) is probably the most important updgrade for us.

Thanks Kris, I don't know how we would do live sports on the vt without your skins!

Bill

m4a2000
12-03-2007, 03:19 PM
Here you go, before the power dies on me again...

kltv
12-03-2007, 09:32 PM
Here you go, before the power dies on me again...

Having some weather issues up there too? It is a bit nasty down here in Portland.

I've got it figured it out. It does not seem to like your nested group "StationName." I ungrouped the group inside the parent group and that seemed to solve it. Don't ask me why that messed up talking to layers outside of it though, you've got me...

Kris

m4a2000
12-03-2007, 10:52 PM
Having some weather issues up there too? It is a bit nasty down here in Portland.

I've got it figured it out. It does not seem to like your nested group "StationName." I ungrouped the group inside the parent group and that seemed to solve it. Don't ask me why that messed up talking to layers outside of it though, you've got me...

Kris
Bad weather??? There was, and still are, heavy floods in Kitsap county. In over 48 hours places near me got over 13 inches of rain!!! The street I live on, which happens to also be right in the center of downtown, was at least two to three feet under water and it's right next to the Puget Sound... Bad weather my rear end... This doesn't happen around!!!


Anyways... Thanks for that bit of info... So a few ungroups and it should work... Thanks!

kltv
12-04-2007, 12:16 AM
In over 48 hours places near me got over 13 inches of rain!!!

Wow. That is definitely worse than we got down here. There was some flooding in SE Portland and along the coast today and tons of downed trees. My brother is stuck out on the coast since most of the coastal highways are blocked with trees or mud or lack of road...

Kris

Tarheel Cougar
12-04-2007, 11:40 AM
I've worked a few ESPN football games where they used a device for the score bug with a modem, and somehow it dialed into the Daktronics controller at the game (I think, since it kept accurate time and I know the game scoreboard was a Daktronics), so I'm willing to bet its a useable serial output from the scoreboard controller. I'm tempted to say they used something like this: http://blsoft.ca/scorebugs.html -- which is compatible with Daktronics, so... there is a way.

We're out of luck since most schools around us use Nevco scoreboards. I have no idea what kind of signal they send, but from controller to scoreboard it uses RG59 or 6 cable with BNC connectors.

Doug Winchell
12-08-2007, 04:17 PM
... hidden away the normal canvas for editing the CG.

Kris

How is the process on restoring "the normal canvas for editing in CG"? I'm guessing it's not quite as easy as a copy/paste out of a default skin, eh?

NewTek needs to place you on pay roll! Thanks for all your hard work.

Doug

kltv
12-09-2007, 10:09 PM
I'm guessing it's not quite as easy as a copy/paste out of a default skin, eh?


If I had left room for it, maybe. But I didn't... so it is sort of like starting over with the skin. It is a little tedious, but I'm also taking the opportunity to add some more fun stuff.

Kris

kltv
12-17-2007, 12:08 PM
For those of you who do hockey games, I am close to finishing this one up. So far, Hockey has proven the most difficult with all those penalty clocks to manage, but I think I've got it. I'm not a big hockey guy, so I wanted to bounce this off those of you who will want to use it. Right now if any one of the four penalty clocks are running it goes into "Power Play" mode and displays that clock. If two clocks from the same team are active it goes into "5 on 3" mode and displays the smallest time. If two clocks from opposing teams are active it goes into "4 on 4" mode. If three clocks are active it goes into "4 on 3" mode. And finally, if all four clocks are active it goes into "3 on 3" mode. As each clock runs out it drops down to the next mode, so if you get all the way to "3 on 3" it will continue displaying and falling back to "4 on 3" then "Power Play" or whatever sequence as the clocks run down. Do I have all that right and judging from the interface, is there anything super important that I'm missing?

Thanks!
Kris

D3Cast
12-17-2007, 12:17 PM
Kris, I think that's the right idea for penalties. Only thing is that some levels have four-minute penalties also -- is the '2' additive (i.e., can I click it twice)? Also, is it a problem if 'Penalty 2' exists but 'Penalty 1' does not? For example, Team A gets a two-minute penalty, then a minute later gets another one. Thirty seconds later, Team B scores, wiping out 'Penalty 1' (this is starting to feel like a word problem), but leaving a power play for 1:30. Will that be handled ok if it's 'Penalty 2'?

Also, no matter how far along they are, I'd be happy to test 'em out, as they're better than what I got now. :)

How is the rest of the VT[5] porting coming? I rev'ed down to [4.6] just for you and Dhomas, so I could have scorebars and replay for a basketball shoot tomorrow... :)

-steve

jedbarish
12-17-2007, 12:40 PM
Nice going with new interface on Hockey! I used your first edition during Deaflympics last Feb. It worked great but looking forward to see basketball as soon as possible for VT5 to handle the live internet coverage of deaf boys and girls basketball championship games. I heard that your previous bb skin wont run on VT5, right?

kltv
12-17-2007, 12:45 PM
Kris, I think that's the right idea for penalties. Only thing is that some levels have four-minute penalties also -- is the '2' additive (i.e., can I click it twice)?

It doesn't do that now, but I will add that in.


Also, is it a problem if 'Penalty 2' exists but 'Penalty 1' does not?

Not a problem. I accounted for that possibilty.


Thirty seconds later, Team B scores, wiping out 'Penalty 1'

I actually had a question about that. Should I automatically wipe out the lowest penalty if the other team scores? I was reading up on the rules and I wasn't sure if it was always the case that a score kicks out the penalty. Right now the operator would have to manually clear the penalty.



(this is starting to feel like a word problem)

And it makes my head hurt... It took me practically all day yesterday to build the logic on that.



How is the rest of the VT[5] porting coming?

I'm making good progress. I have basketball, baseball, football and now hockey pretty much done. I've got the skin Photoshopped out for soccer and I hope to get that one nailed down today and start going over my tennis logic as well. I also need to re-do volleyball and handball, but those ones shouldn't be too bad. If all goes well I should be finished by Christmas.

Happy Holidays!
Kris

kltv
12-17-2007, 12:49 PM
Nice going with new interface on Hockey! I used your first edition during Deaflympics last Feb. It worked great but looking forward to see basketball as soon as possible for VT5 to handle the live internet coverage of deaf boys and girls basketball championship games. I heard that your previous bb skin wont run on VT5, right?

I knew I had made one for somebody... I'm glad it worked out for you!

That is correct, the current version doesn't really like the VT[5]. It runs, but it causes a nasty flickering effect on the graphic. The new versions of all the sports should be finished up very soon.

Thanks!
Kris

ncsu1
12-17-2007, 01:58 PM
It's probably best just to clear out the penalty manually, because it will probably start getting too complicated if you do automatic removing.

I'm gonna bet you already thought of this but how about since you have the shots on goal for hockey, hopefully you might be able to add in team fouls and/or timeouts left for basketball?

D3Cast
12-17-2007, 03:07 PM
It's probably best just to clear out the penalty manually, because it will probably start getting too complicated if you do automatic removing.I agree. A goal will always* clear a minor that results in a 5-on-4 or a 5-on-3 situation, and will never clear a minor when the minors were called at the same time ("matching" minors); beyond that... :stumped:

So yeah, it's probably better to use the 'CLR' button.

-s

* I think.

D3Cast
12-17-2007, 03:13 PM
If all goes well I should be finished by Christmas.Kris, I know you've worked on these by yourself, tirelessly, and refused any compensation for them. I think a lot of us VT[Scoreboard] users are looking for a way to give back somehow, or help the cause.

Understanding that the VT-Scripting is not trivial at all, would it help you any to get some volunteers to work on the code? Kinda all open-source-like? The graphics are your specialty, but us code monkeys might be able to help on the back end...

Just a thought.

-steve

kltv
12-17-2007, 05:23 PM
So yeah, it's probably better to use the 'CLR' button.


Sounds good. I like it.



Understanding that the VT-Scripting is not trivial at all, would it help you any to get some volunteers to work on the code? Kinda all open-source-like? The graphics are your specialty, but us code monkeys might be able to help on the back end...


I appreciate the offer, but I probably work too fluid to be able to farm out parts of it to others. I just sort of plow through it slowly and add functions and features as they pop into my head... not really the most efficent way to work, but that's how my nerd/artist's brain works. Just bouncing my stuff off you guys on the boards helps a lot.

Kris

mhenstell
12-17-2007, 08:26 PM
I don't know much about how hockey actually works (I just watch the monitors and hit "take" once in a while, ha). But wow, that looks like it's going to be amazing. This is just pure aesthetic bitching, but does VT allow for any sort of transitions or effects to pop those clocks (or the scoreboard as a whole) in and out? or are they just on/off?

All I ask is that its easy enough for random people to use. Mapping it to the ShuttlePro made it pretty straightforward, but you don't know how many times I've had to grab unsuspecting people to work the clock cause we never have enough people helping out.

Looks like I'm gonna need to buy an xkeys controller for that beast! :cool:

kltv
12-17-2007, 09:52 PM
...but does VT allow for any sort of transitions or effects to pop those clocks (or the scoreboard as a whole) in and out? or are they just on/off?


Yeah, I'm kinda stuck there. I can't dissolve images in and out. I've thought about writing a function to either slowly adjust the alpha of the text or perhaps slide it in from the side or something, but then people would probably have to dive into the ToasterScript to adjust position changes and that might be too messy. Maybe in the next version...


All I ask is that its easy enough for random people to use. Mapping it to the ShuttlePro made it pretty straightforward, but you don't know how many times I've had to grab unsuspecting people to work the clock cause we never have enough people helping out.


I think I've had 12 year olds running it for baseball, so I hear that. I think I may still be able to squeeze most of the Hockey functions on the Nostromo Pad I usually use. But I'm definately exceeding the functionality of that controller. More buttons!

Kris

kltv
12-17-2007, 11:25 PM
I'm gonna bet you already thought of this but how about since you have the shots on goal for hockey, hopefully you might be able to add in team fouls and/or timeouts left for basketball?

You bet correctly. They are both in there as show/hide elements as well as possession indicators. I've also added a bonus indicator, but I haven't yet tied it in to automatically go off if a team reaches a certain number of fouls. I haven't decided if I want that to go on automatically yet. Football has the TOL as well, and I've coded in the ESPN-style triple indicators that drop out as the time outs are used or you can still use a show/hide TOL flag. It's pretty cool.

Similarly, I've added hits and errors to baseball. So if you have a page with that information on it, the display will update it as well.

Kris

D3Cast
12-18-2007, 04:28 AM
It's pretty cool.Oh, you tease -- stop posting and finish coding, already! :D :D

Troylaflin
12-21-2007, 09:51 AM
I was curious on a couple of things.

1. Is there any way to disable the clear button and the time to automatically reset on the game clock.

2. Is there any way to add a motion crawl on the bottom while the scoreboard is up.

I also had some Ideas/questions about the new scoreboard skins for VT5

1. Can you make the time editable by typing in the correct time?

2. Can you also make it so that the skin that runs the score board can be built into the CG designer so that you can have all of your pages in one designer and that way you do not have to change the DSK source and just fade the scoreboard down and then change the page to a diffrent one such as a lower third.

I also wanted to let you know that your scoreboard skin is amazing and that i am so glad that you do not charge for your scoreboard skin. I work for a production station at my high school and we do not have alot of money to buy stuff like this. Your scoreboard skin adds to our feel and makes us look very professional. we have gotten many compliments on how are broadcasts look professional and almost rival ESPN.

Thanks Alot

SLOMO CO
12-21-2007, 12:02 PM
Hello,
I am a new VT 5 user but and old Amiga guy and really am in awe with the score technology put forth by kris.

I am trying to follwow this tread back to see if I can do all of the installs on my VT 5. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I am following the guidelines listed in the version 3 download but am still fumbling around.

It sounds like you are close to a new improved release and I like all of the others am in awe. I still hope you take a break for the holidays!

I run a 6 camera truck and we want to incorporate all of your score bugs in all of the sports we do.

kltv
12-21-2007, 01:05 PM
1. Is there any way to disable the clear button and the time to automatically reset on the game clock.


I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this. On the new version, I do have the time resetting to its default when you advance to the next period. So you won't have to do both. Is that what you mean?



2. Is there any way to add a motion crawl on the bottom while the scoreboard is up.


Maybe, I'll have to experiment with that. You might be able to lock the position on everything and then trigger a crawl. That might have to wait for the next version, but I'll look in to it.



1. Can you make the time editable by typing in the correct time?


It doesn't look like that is going to happen in this version. I had an idea about it, but I think there is a bug in the ToasterScript. When I ask the CG to give me the time from the canvas all I get is "true" instead of the value. But, I did add up and down arrows for minutes and the ten seconds place. That seems to work very well at getting to the appropriate time. I haven't given up on the text entry yet though...



2. Can you also make it so that the skin that runs the score board can be built into the CG designer so that you can have all of your pages in one designer and that way you do not have to change the DSK source and just fade the scoreboard down and then change the page to a diffrent one such as a lower third.


You've got it. You'll have access to your entire CG project this time around via the same page number entry that is on the top of the normal CG module. You can only populate the first 9 pages with scoreboard data, but you will have access to the rest of the project for lower thirds or other stuff.

Kris

kltv
12-21-2007, 01:07 PM
It sounds like you are close to a new improved release and I like all of the others am in awe. I still hope you take a break for the holidays!


Thanks! No break for me though! I hope to be finished with the new version next week. I've got five of the eight skins completed so far.

Kris

mhenstell
12-21-2007, 01:09 PM
The last version he released actually doesn't work properly in VT5. Due to whatever changes they made between VT4 and VT5, the old version of the CG skins "Flickers" on VT5, but kris' new version will fix that and bring a lot more features.

D3Cast
12-21-2007, 05:57 PM
Slightly off tangent...

I finally maxed out my keyboard/mouse over the weekend (using the keyboard to switch 'cause I left my RS-8 at home, using the mouse for youngmonkey's Instant Replay and Kris' scoreboard meant that 60% of the time I went to put a camera in preview, I was putting a "2" or a "3" at the end of the home team's name or stopping capture on the DDR :thumbsdow).

I don't have a Nostromo, but I did happen to have a Shuttle Pro in one of my bins, so I figured out how to map most of the keys to that (I left out the shot clock - not enough buttons - plus it was just me running all that, and my brain's not Hyper Threaded...). The neat thing was that I used the jog wheel to do +/- seconds on the clock, so when I got way out of sync (which, thanksfully, only happened a few times), I just wheeled around until I got it back. Worked like a charm.

And yes, if I can figure out how to export Shuttle Pro mappings, I can share them if anyone wants them.

-steve

PIZAZZ
12-22-2007, 09:09 AM
Steve you are always off tangent not just slightly... ;)

Sounds like you need more programmable buttons when you are doing so much with one person. Could you send me a shortcut list of items you employ and I will make a profile for a couple of our custom controllers. I have been working on a design that incorporates as many of the custom commands and standard commands for Kris's Skinnage as I can. I would love your input on which ones are the most used, most needed, etc. I believe having a dedicated button for all actions is a great way to simplify the complex job of octopus switching. I could do a large controller that replaces the RS8 and gives direct control of the CG. I could also do another controller that just has direct control of the CG. You could run the CG controller along with the larger controller or RS8.

BTW If I remember correctly, Dhomas put the ability for keyboard shortcuts in the latest version of the Replay plugin. Did you not try using them?

(PS. I am pushing for direct control of the LiveSet angle selection and a few other things so we can hardware base switch them too.....)

D3Cast
12-23-2007, 06:48 AM
Steve you are always off tangent not just slightly... ;)Hey! I resemble that remark! :twak:


...the complex job of octopus switching...I like 'octopus switching'! Much better than 'like a chicken with my head cut off' :chicken: or 'one-armed paperhanger'. My other favorite is the 'one-man band' metaphor, where the description of the tasks I was performing usually ends with '...and playing the cymbals between my knees'.


BTW If I remember correctly, Dhomas put the ability for keyboard shortcuts in the latest version of the Replay plugin. Did you not try using them?That is correct. I did not try using them. :D Long story -- I have the 1.1 upgrade, but only for VT[5], and my current switching box is still VT[4.6]. Dhomas did put some keyboard shortcut crumbs into 1.0, though, I thought, I'll look for them this morning when I get to the gym.

(BTW, if your Christmas shopping is done :santa: and you're bored this afternoon between 2 and 6 p.m. EST, check out what three people*, a VT, and some great plugins can do! ECAC/Commerce Bank Holiday Classic (NCAA Division II Men's Basketball tournament) (http://www.ecacsports.com/sports/winter/mbkb/media/index). And if your holiday shopping is not done, I hear PIZAZZ gift certificates make a splendid stocking stuffer. :deal:)

-steve

*Excluding talent. I know, I know, they're important, too. It'd be awfully quiet without them. I just meant on the production side...

P.S. Jef, I'll get you my list of actions I used the Shuttle Pro for...

nsdV
12-23-2007, 01:41 PM
Steve, I watch about 15 min of your BB broadcast and thought it looked very good!

Good luck on game #2, Andrew

lithiumpro
12-24-2007, 12:45 AM
We just got a new video board and new scoring from Daktronics back in Sept and with talking to one of the installers. The unit send out normal serial information, because they synced the score controller to the video board computer and thought CG software designed a full scoreboard that can displayed all the score info on the video board...

The installer also talked about that CG unit they make, and did say something that Daktronics just wont tell you fully about the data stream due to keeping their product copy written. I dont remember what the data rate was, but he said that it is a stream of data and if you keep watching that data at different sections you can get all the information displayed for score, names, timers, etc... So I thank that a program or script that watches a RS232 port and grabs that info to be displayed. Our system has been sent off for repairs, but ill see what info i can get about the data rate.

nsdV
12-31-2007, 10:40 AM
How's the VT5 skin coming along? We are getting ready to do some games after the new year and I'm trying to decide if I should upgrade to 5 or stick with 4.
Thanks, Andrew

nsdV
12-31-2007, 11:06 AM
Is anyone using Kris's Replay skin that is posted on post #39 of this thread? How many of you are using YoungMonkey's Replay plug-in?
I really like the cost of Kris's Skin:) but for those of you using YM's plug-in I'm wondering how the two are different. What are the differences? Pros? Cons?

Is there a way to modify the toasterscript to make it automatically go to the preview buss (take) when the replay is done playing? Basically I would like add keystokes {spacebar-TAKE}, {ctrl+Apps+Home-TURN OFF REPLAY FLAG}after the clip is done playing

I'm using an X-keys and have pragramed it to:
-Load the DDR into the Preview bus
-TAKE between the Program and Preview bus (Live auction to Replays[DDR])
-Activate REPLAY FLAG in the scoreboard skin.

Now if I could just get it to auto TAKE back to live action and to automatically turn off the REPLAY FLAG.

Thanks, Andrew

D3Cast
12-31-2007, 01:41 PM
I am using youngmonkey's replay plug-in and have fooled around with Kris'. I think the main difference between the two is that Kris' is all ToasterScript, and Dhomas is using Voodoo. :) (Or an API, one of the two.)

In practice, even Kris has admitted that the ToasterScript can be a little fluky, especially where determining what object currently has focus (or selecting one of multiple DDRs, etc.) I do like the idea of having full control with ToasterScript to do a bunch of things, like change speeds mid-playback, etc., but I haven't had any time to play with it lately.

As far as your questions, at a 30,000-foot view, it seems possible to find the breadcrumbs you need to make those actions happen. You might want to poke around in various Initialization.ToasterScript files (or look/ask in the VT-Script forum) -- that's what I usually do.

-steve

nsdV
12-31-2007, 02:25 PM
Ok, the auto TAKE back to live action was an easy fixed. I should have know this earlier but my "CUE OUT" button was off so it would just stop at the end of the replay. With it ON, it transitions back to the live feed. Just one problem...it defaults back to crossfade transition(DVE) on the CUE OUT.

I have the toasterscript use DVE "7523" but want to use a simple crossfade when I'm switching from live camera to live camera. When I use the replay skin, it does grab the transition in the toasterscript on the CUE IN but is lost on the the CUE OUT.

Can this be fixed. How do others set up DVE's with replays. Do you always use the same DVE or do you have a different DVE for camera switching and Replays? If so, do you pick your DVE manually?

Thanks, Andrew

kltv
12-31-2007, 06:02 PM
How's the VT5 skin coming along? We are getting ready to do some games after the new year and I'm trying to decide if I should upgrade to 5 or stick with 4.
Thanks, Andrew

I just finished up Tennis today, another super-complicated one down... All I have left to finish up is Volleyball. I have the day "off" tomorrow and hope to wrap that one up. Then I'll do a final round of testing and updating of the documentation. I'm very close!

Kris

kltv
12-31-2007, 06:08 PM
Ok, the auto TAKE back to live action was an easy fixed. I should have know this earlier but my "CUE OUT" button was off so it would just stop at the end of the replay. With it ON, it transitions back to the live feed. Just one problem...it defaults back to crossfade transition(DVE) on the CUE OUT.

Do you have advance checked on the switcher? Otherwise it should stay on whatever DVE it loaded during the "Replay" command. We use the same transition in and out for most of our stuff. During special events I might do an in effect and an out effect. When I do that I manually select the out transition during the replay.

I thought about trying to poll the DDR to see when a clip has finished playing out, but it doesn't like timers. Without that I can't have it turn off the replay flag automatically when the video runs out. I could make a separate auto-transition keyboard shortcut in the switcher module that could do both, but only if you activated it yourself. You wouldn't be able to do it with CUE OUT.

Kris

m4a2000
01-01-2008, 02:26 AM
I just finished up Tennis today, another super-complicated one down... All I have left to finish up is Volleyball. I have the day "off" tomorrow and hope to wrap that one up. Then I'll do a final round of testing and updating of the documentation. I'm very close!

Kris
You have great timing... I just got an email from my boss saying we're doing another live basketball game next week... Just in time I hope... This is a great way to bring in 2008!

Slickster
01-01-2008, 07:15 PM
Kris: Just re-installed VT[5] and would gladly test and help in any way we can! -sammy

nsdV
01-06-2008, 05:38 PM
Kris, Sorry to keep asking but...are we getting close? Is there anything we can help with? Is there a beta version that I can test. :) All I need right now is basketball. Thanks, Andrew

jedbarish
01-06-2008, 06:46 PM
Kris, hope you could release basketball for VT5 soon before we have two live internet coverage for deaf boys and girls HS basketball games in 10 days :) I would need time to test it out before we do it live. Thanks!

kltv
01-07-2008, 11:43 AM
Everything is functionally done and tested. I'm just working on finalizing the distribution issues. Thanks for your patience!

Kris

m4a2000
01-07-2008, 04:09 PM
Everything is functionally done and tested. I'm just working on finalizing the distribution issues. Thanks for your patience!

Kris
I'm so happy I could buy you Seahawks tickets!

Slickster
01-16-2008, 08:40 AM
Can't wait to see the updated VT[5] Sports Scoreboard Skins!!! -sam

Troylaflin
01-22-2008, 08:39 AM
Hey were doing a high school girls basketball tournament in 2 days we have 3 games to cover and would like to use VT5 but cant until we have a scoreboard graphic I would love to do beta testing with the scoreboard live dont have a problem with using the score board with little or no testing. Is there any way i could get the new scoreboard. i wish a had a way to pay you back but not alot of money left in budget for this school year. any thing i could do to help just give me a shout at [email protected] thanks Troy

Slickster
01-22-2008, 01:30 PM
Hey were doing a high school girls basketball tournament in 2 days we have 3 games to cover and would like to use VT5 but cant until we have a scoreboard graphic I would love to do beta testing with the scoreboard live dont have a problem with using the score board with little or no testing. Is there any way i could get the new scoreboard. i wish a had a way to pay you back but not alot of money left in budget for this school year. any thing i could do to help just give me a shout at [email protected] thanks Troy
My understanding is that pizazzme.com will be offering the updated skins for around $300. We don't have much in our budget as well, but well worth the price for skins that cover almost all sports!

ncsu1
01-22-2008, 01:32 PM
bleh.

PIZAZZ
01-22-2008, 01:34 PM
Actually the price Kris and I set is $250 not $300. :)

Here is the link to the product page.

http://www.pizazzme.com/shop/proddetail.php?prod=VT5-ScoreBoard&cat=10


We are setup to take orders now.

PIZAZZ
01-22-2008, 01:48 PM
Hey Guys and Gals!!! Let's take the scoreboard discussions to this new thread
Kris and I will be posting pics and tutorials there to keep all the new product discussion in one place for our newer members and older members alike.

Thanks!!

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=645153#post645153


See you there!

nsdV
04-15-2008, 08:05 PM
I spoke with a local tech from Daktronic about some of the possibilities using their products.


This guy was really interested in what we are trying to do and might have a few other solutions. He is going to call the main office. I told him that a lot of people are starting to use Newtek's products (VT and TriCaster) and that Daktronics might be interested in developing a product that works with the VT CG editor.

Basically the wireless reciever is connected to the scoreboard with only 4 wires. Two of them are the power and the other two connect to the scoreboard driver (LED) switch panel.

Now I'm waiting to hear from someone in the home office about a solution.

It's coming...

http://www.newtek.com/news/pressrelease.php?viewpr=44