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Vision1
09-21-2005, 04:46 PM
hey, i think most of you know serenity
i'm looking forward to this film so i thought i browse for it and i found this
so maybe some of you didn’t read it so here it is

http://www.rendernode.com/articles.php?articleId=169

http://millimeter.com/mag/video_fly_inside_firefly/

and here are some video's i haven't seen them yet because they are very bigg and download isn't going very fast

http://www.fireflyfans.net/main.asp

:lwicon:

colkai
09-22-2005, 02:36 AM
Can't wait, this film is gonna be Shiny! :D
Have you seen the Viral Marketing videos of River (Summer Glau) yet?
Joss acts as the 'interviewer' - it's heartbreaking to see her go from a happy girl to the River we all know.

fyrissian
09-22-2005, 06:30 PM
Yep. Come next Thursday, I reckon things are gonna get just a mite interesting out here on the Rim... Let's get rowdy! :devil:

edit... Thursday? Must have been having a gorram Jayne moment... the 30th is on a FRIDAY, moron!

Bog
09-23-2005, 10:39 AM
*shrugs into brownish coloured coat*

I've seen Serenity, and to be honest it's the most enjoyable time I've ever had in the cinema. It's as simple as that.

Yes, I'm a rabid Firefly fan, despite not being too much into Whedon's other work, but the movie just rocks.

<edit> Just so nobody thinks I was being naughty, it was a press screening in Leicester Square. Anyone even considering downloading this instead of seeing it in cinemas needs their head read. BIG effects, dribble-drool :D

Can't wait for general release so I can go see it again!

Jolly well done Zoic and everyone else involved.

Vision1
09-25-2005, 09:45 AM
i have found 2 other website about serenity vfx but they say that they have had some problems with lightwave

http://www.vfxblog.com/vfx/2005/09/zoics_loni_peri.html#more
http://vfxworld.com/?atype=articles&id=2634&page=1

i hope that newtek knows about these problems and wil fix it

colkai
09-26-2005, 02:22 AM
It's the way of most feature that they have problems with "off-the-shelf" software, which is why pretty much everyone ends up with the term "proprietary software" in their breakdown of what was done on the film. ;)

Bog
09-26-2005, 05:22 AM
It's the way of most feature that they have problems with "off-the-shelf" software, which is why pretty much everyone ends up with the term "proprietary software" in their breakdown of what was done on the film.

That's about the size of it. When you lean hard on any 3D software, the stuffing comes out sooner or later. Was it Ron Thornton who said "All 3D tools crash. LightWave crashes the least, though." Or something like that.

riki
09-26-2005, 06:59 AM
yeah this should be good, can't wait to see it.

Vision1
09-26-2005, 08:13 AM
i just hope that zoic doesn't move away from lightwave

in one of the interviews they told they created a new pipeline (Other software)

AbnRanger
09-26-2005, 12:13 PM
i just hope that zoic doesn't move away from lightwave

in one of the interviews they told they created a new pipeline (Other software)
After reading that article, I was wondering if that's what they were thinking about....since they did mention incorporating Maya w/ Mental Ray into their pipeline. Perhaps they became so frustrated that they are now moving in that direction, since Maya and Mental Ray seem to have a good track record in those areas.
When I read the word "Limitations," regarding Lightwave's capabilities to run large-scale scenes, I translated that to mean they would be looking for a solution WITHOUT such limitations. Can't blame them really.
I wonder if Newtek worked with them at all to run LW 64 bit, seeing how Rob Powers was impressed with it surpassing the 32 bit barriers, running very stable, and NOT dropping any render frames on the project he worked on for Microsoft (showing off XP Pro x64).

mattclary
09-26-2005, 12:33 PM
I know some of the PR for 64bit LW has been loading several Galactica models, so I would assume Zoic and Newtek are talking. They are probably beta testers.

Bog
09-26-2005, 12:37 PM
Hum. I've had occasional minor stability issues with LW and Large Amounts of Large Maps. One of my clients is the British Library, doing re-creations of old books. These normally get five or six layers of mapping at about 1800x1000 (ballpark), and with thirty page-surfaces like that, I tend to worry a teenty bit about pushing F10.

It's usually more a case of render from a fresh boot than Oh Gh0d This Will never Work, mind.

AbnRanger
09-26-2005, 01:01 PM
Here's a few revealing (and non-flattering for LW) clips from that article:

Setting Up New Pipelines
At the heart of Serenity is the spaceship of the same name. The model that had been developed for Firefly was rebuilt from scratch for Serenity, as it had no UV maps and the textures were simple NTSC projections. All the vehicles — and CG environments too — were built in Maya by model supervisor and ESC alumnus Brian Friesinger, using quads and shot-centric UVs, and textured by Lance Powell by hand. Once the animation was complete, the scenes were ported over to LightWave to be lit and rendered. Compositing was then carried out in Combustion. ....

The environment was later replaced with a Maya terrain system written by Brian Goldberg and Marcus Stokes. The bad guys’ hovercraft was mostly realized in CG. For this sequence, Peristere decided to switch to a Maya/mental ray pipeline, specifically to take advantage of the fluid and particles simulation tools of the Alias animation package.

This new pipeline marked a major departure from the LightWave/Flame/After Effects platform that Zoic had been using for television work. “LightWave has been a cornerstone here at Zoic, but it just needs some more refinement for high resolution work,” Peristere adds. “Although we had used it to its best on Battlestar Galactica and Firefly, the guys had to do far too much patchwork with it and it stressed them to their limit. They made it work, but it was brute force and they are the best users in the business. We also faced a resource issue. Between Zoic, Eden FX and Digital Domain, the key LightWave talent was booked up. There simply wasn’t anyone we felt comfortable with for these shots. Since Randy Goux had a team of super Maya artists from ESC who were available to do this work, we pulled the trigger.”

I wonder if Newtek will be providing video clips of interviews from Zoic Studios doing plugs for LW at SIGGRAPH...NEXT year?

colkai
09-26-2005, 01:15 PM
I think the key statement here is....

"... Between Zoic, Eden FX and Digital Domain, the key LightWave talent was booked up. There simply wasn’t anyone we felt comfortable with for these shots. Since Randy Goux had a team of super Maya artists from ESC who were available to do this work, we pulled the trigger.”]
That suggests to me that yes, they did steer from LW, but I also get the impression it was because they couldn't find LW artists of a high enough calibre to handle the complexity of shots they were doing.
Thus the phrase "pull the trigger" in relation to using Maya more than LW.

After all, the 64-bit version of LW has been shown to handle larger scenes much better and I'm pretty certain I recall Zoic having a hand in showing that off.

I'd be pretty surprised to find Zoic and Newtek moving away from each other.

Bog
09-26-2005, 02:55 PM
We also faced a resource issue. Between Zoic, Eden FX and Digital Domain, the key LightWave talent was booked up.

Now guys, next time you hit that problem, my email address is [email protected] I'll come help out, happy to... ;)

Emmanuel
09-27-2005, 06:42 AM
Hm, there goes LW's "the package for SciFi, spaceships and nebulae" fame from earlier days :/
And its not even because Maya has more features, it is just because Maya can do better with large amount of data :/
What a way to leave....Well, the industry rarely waits for an app to catch up, so NT better hurries up now.

Bog
09-27-2005, 06:45 AM
*eyebrow* I think the road's a little longer than that, Emmanuel. Yeah, bit of a stumble with Serenity, and that's a blow. I hardly think NT's reaction to this will be to look sheepish, shrug and say "Well, it works fine for broadcast...."

colkai
09-27-2005, 07:03 AM
One thing everyone seems to forget.
People have been citing statements down the years since LW4.0 to indicate that Newtek and LW are dying and will never again be competitive. Yet, here we are with LW9 and LW-64 bit on the horizon, Emmy awards all over the shop.
For some reason, if a company promotes LW over say Maya, nothing is thought of it, no talk of Alias losing out, but if the opposite occurs, folks start tolling the death knell for LW.
Honestly speaking, I very much predict when LWx / LW10 hits the shelves, the same thing will happen, heck I'll wager it will even be the same folks tolling the bells too. :p ;)
Meanwhile, LW will continue to be used throught the broadcast and film industry regardless of it's apparently imminent (well, at some time, maybe, possibly) death.

Bog
09-27-2005, 07:06 AM
You said that last time, colkai.


;)

colkai
09-27-2005, 07:16 AM
hehe, and I'll wager no matter how many times it's said, it'll never sink in. :lol:
Anyhoo, at my age, I can blame repeating myself on rampant senility. :p

Bog
09-27-2005, 07:21 AM
*points at his description with a raised eyebrow*

Don't talk to me about senility, whippersnapper. Eeeh, me an' Granpappy Splinebender were out trappin' wild polygons in the hills when you were in short pants.... (etc, etc) ;)

Thing is, LW does have a sort of underdoggy kind of rep. It's mainly undeserved because, as it well noted, it's *everywhere*, sort of the Swiss Army Knife of 3D. Speaking professionally, I think it's a good idea to be at least *partly* bilingual when it comes to one's 3D toolset, but the simple fact is you can do just about anything in LightWave, and as a rule you can do most things faster. Yeah, high-end character work is a bear. Yeah, it might have choked a bit on Serenity - but I don't think anyone's tried to render anything half as complex as that in it before.

As ever, it's easier to be negative than to be positive. Personally, I'll go with being realistic.

colkai
09-27-2005, 07:56 AM
Hah! - if you knew me, you'd know my whippersnapper are long since gone. ;)
Aye, hear what ya saying about LW, (I consider myself a pessimistic optimist). :p
Mind you, I reckon if they'd of had the LW-64 bit in place for Serenity, they may have just stuck with it, though I still get the feeling it was lack of LW artists they had more than anything. Either way, I'd not be surprised to see LW on the list of software for the sequels to the BDM. Oh yes, there WILL be sequels. :D
It is the job of every Browncoat to ensure that!

Bog
09-27-2005, 08:02 AM
*grins* Aye, I'm just playing :)

I'm kinda gutted that it came down to "lack of 'Wavers", as I've been scrounging around the UK for paid gigs all year, with little success. I'm certainly competent to model, texture, light and blow up spaceships. I'm so kicking myself for not having the bottle so send Zoic a showreel... can't help but wonder how many other long-term freelancers are feeling the same way.


Oh yes, there WILL be sequels.

Gorram better be, or I'm feeding Whedon to the Reavers!

colkai
09-27-2005, 08:36 AM
Have you seen pictures of them yet? Urgghh
Found a Serenity mag in WHSmith at the weekend. Nathan Fillion said sitting eating dinner was not pleasant with the guys in reaver makeup on the next table. :p
Good little mag by the way if you can find it, though beware, it has spoilers in it relating to the film so if you haven't heard some of what happens, you may want to hold off buying it, or at least, reading it. ;)

Chuck
09-27-2005, 08:41 AM
Hm, there goes LW's "the package for SciFi, spaceships and nebulae" fame from earlier days :/
And its not even because Maya has more features, it is just because Maya can do better with large amount of data :/
What a way to leave....Well, the industry rarely waits for an app to catch up, so NT better hurries up now.

We've been in hurry up mode for quite some time, as nearing our fifth release since v8.0 clearly demonstrates, and as our development white paper recently published in the LightWave web section describes. We'll be releasing a profile of the Serenity project that should put the comments in the articles published so far into a more proper context. With credits in more than 180 films, a number of which include over a hundred shots created and/or rendered in LightWave, LightWave is an established film industry tool and we are hard at work to make it a much stronger film industry tool, with every one of the issues mentioned well underway to being addressed in our major reconstruction of LightWave for v.9 and beyond.

Bog
09-27-2005, 09:35 AM
Told ya ;)

kurv
09-27-2005, 11:13 AM
We've been in hurry up mode for quite some time, as nearing our fifth release since v8.0 clearly demonstrates, and as our development white paper recently published in the LightWave web section describes. We'll be releasing a profile of the Serenity project that should put the comments in the articles published so far into a more proper context. With credits in more than 180 films, a number of which include over a hundred shots created and/or rendered in LightWave, LightWave is an established film industry tool and we are hard at work to make it a much stronger film industry tool, with every one of the issues mentioned well underway to being addressed in our major reconstruction of LightWave for v.9 and beyond.

Looking forward to it Chuck!

colkai
09-27-2005, 11:41 AM
Told ya ;)
Never doubted it for one second! :D :I_Love_Ne :lightwave

fyrissian
09-27-2005, 05:08 PM
We'll be releasing a profile of the Serenity project

Cool! I'm anxious to see that one!

Bog
09-27-2005, 05:41 PM
*thinks*

*shoves a ciggie in his mouth, to aid the thinkage*

I'll trust a company that says "Yeah, we could do better - and we're working like buggers to do better" over a company that shouts "ALL IS BEAUTY AND BLISS!" any day.

*puff puff*

Yeah, I'm happy to be a 'Waver. darn, been doing this for 12 years... wouldn't have stuck with it this long if it wasn't fun. :)

colkai
09-28-2005, 02:25 AM
BTW - as regards LW and Serenity
For those who don't know, a guy named "Treybor" has done an outstanding version of Serenity the ship over at LWG3D. The mesh is available for download too!
...
http://www.lwg3d.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19937&highlight=serenity
http://www.lwg3d.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20693&highlight=serenity

Chuck
09-30-2005, 02:13 PM
CGFocus has published a project profile which gives a much better context regarding the tools, including LightWave:

http://www.cgfocus.com/phproot/profiles/emilesmith/profile.php

Lots of great images as well!!! Enjoy!

Bytehawk
09-30-2005, 07:01 PM
yep certainly worth reading !

Emmanuel
10-01-2005, 12:39 PM
Dammit, every time I try to put LW down, someone comes and proves me wrong, it just ain't no fun anymore :help:

I wonder if the FX are on par with Ep3 ? I have never seen the TV show Firefly...

IgnusFast
10-02-2005, 11:34 AM
CGFocus has published a project profile which gives a much better context regarding the tools, including LightWave:

http://www.cgfocus.com/phproot/profiles/emilesmith/profile.php

Lots of great images as well!!! Enjoy!

Interesting that the Mule/Skiff chase wasn't done in Lightwave, since it's actually the weakest effect in the whole movie. Even my wife, who's a complete non-techie by the way, turned to me in the theater and said, "Wow, that doesn't look very good, does it? The ship doesn't look like it's really there!"...

Freaking FANTASTIC movie, though!!!!!

Treybor
05-30-2008, 12:31 AM
If anyone is still interested, I have posted a 34-part tutorial for creating a serenit mesh in Lightwave. they are all posted here:

http://www.foundation3d.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1281

archijam
05-30-2008, 01:42 AM
If anyone is still interested, I have posted a 34-part tutorial for creating a serenit mesh in Lightwave. they are all posted here:

http://www.foundation3d.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1281

Looks great .. Nice work !

Do miss that show .. It's kinda weird to see Mal (Nathan Fillion) as a cast member of Desperate Housewives these days ..

BeeVee
05-30-2008, 07:43 AM
It's one way to get any show cancelled - put Nathan Fillion in it! :D

B

Bog
06-01-2008, 11:26 AM
Hell, this time when they put Fillion in, the damn set burnt down!

I was just going 'round the Universal Studios backlot a month or so ago, very sad about today's fire :(

SonicMotion
06-04-2008, 05:08 PM
If you are really big fans of Serenity, check out this documentry: www.donetheimpossible.com it doesn't cover the effects, its more of a story about a failed tv show gets a movie deal - told from the actors and producers viewpoints.

AbnRanger
06-04-2008, 05:13 PM
If you are really big fans of Serenity, check out this documentry: www.donetheimpossible.com it doesn't cover the effects, its more of a story about a failed tv show gets a movie deal - told from the actors and producers viewpoints.I think Fox gave them a raw deal. Before canceling it, they should have given it a better time slot, allowing it to succeed. I don't watch much TV at all, but the Firefly series beats 90% of the crap that's showing today.

SonicMotion
06-04-2008, 05:17 PM
agreed, so many good shows get cancelled before there time. like the andy richter show, and arrested development to name two

Jim_C
06-04-2008, 06:12 PM
I think Fox gave them a raw deal. Before canceling it, they should have given it a better time slot, allowing it to succeed. I don't watch much TV at all, but the Firefly series beats 90% of the crap that's showing today.

Fox didn't help the cause by running the episodes out of order to start either.....

ericsmith
06-04-2008, 08:38 PM
I can't say much about serenity, but I thought Arrested Development had a good run. I was sad to see it end, but it felt like it wrapped up naturally and ended with its integrity intact, as opposed to just going on and on even after it had peaked.

Eric

colkai
06-05-2008, 02:27 AM
If you are really big fans of Serenity, check out this documentry: www.donetheimpossible.com it doesn't cover the effects, its more of a story about a failed tv show gets a movie deal - told from the actors and producers viewpoints.

Yup, got the DVD, it's great to see the starts of a show still fans of it so long afterwards. Not that they shouldn't be of course, it was, shall we say, Shiny! :D

warrenwc
06-05-2008, 02:50 PM
Just had to add my vote for Firefly & Serenity:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
Also, by the way DRIVE, which got a raw deal too.
Hella good shows all.