PDA

View Full Version : Can toaster do this?



m.d.
09-15-2005, 11:40 PM
looking at getting a toaster for multicam shooting....I though it could record say 2-3 streams(depending on the system)and do a live switch at the same time....recording the switch as a stream but having the ability to make instant corrections to a bad cut ect. is it capable of this....or will it just record the switched stream??

i also was hoping that the switched stream could be placed as a track in the timeline(i'm used to an Avid,or pinnacle Liquid setup...sorry)while it's being captured.

Is this possible, or are my expectations too high??
thanx

Ivan
09-16-2005, 03:57 AM
The most it can record is what you see on a single output so although it can record from multiple inputs you would only be able to capture one or a mixture of them all. You may be able to use a Firestore type device to capture to and edit from that but I don't know anyone who has tried it.

Ivan

John Perkins
09-16-2005, 06:54 AM
Sure it will. Strangely I just posted this in another thread...

I have one client that records Main, Program and Preview. He can go back and fix some mistakes in post.

The trick is to go into Preferences and tell it NOT to put black on unused inputs when capturing and also have a really fast RAID.

If you open the capture window by pressing the record button in the edit window the clips from that one capture window will drop into the timeline as they finish. You could press "chop" to make the clips drop into the edit window before the shoot is finished.

However, you probably wouldn't be able to edit as you go because the audio from your edit window would go out live (not good) and you would have no way of seeing your edit with all three (program, preview and main) in use.

If you aren't using the DSK at all, I suppose you could put the editor on the DSK to see it in the DSK preview window and also mute the edit window audio.

You better have one burly system to deal with all that though!

Ivan
09-16-2005, 08:16 AM
I totally forgot that the capture panel could select various inputs. I will have to try this next time I have the chance.

Ivan

m.d.
09-16-2005, 09:47 AM
You better have one burly system to deal with all that though!


yes i would think so....
so it's possible but the absolute limit would be three inputs....say two cameras and one switched track??

as far as a system, would say four serial ATA raid 0, and two Xenon's
do it??

John Perkins
09-16-2005, 09:50 AM
Not a chance.

Try 6+ Cheetah 10K drives on two SCSI channels.

JAMIL
09-16-2005, 12:50 PM
I think that you must use two or three SCSI devices for capturing many inputs. Also if you have realy fast RAID DV AVI format can helps you because data transfer rate there is not big.

...I can mistake

Jamil

m.d.
09-16-2005, 12:56 PM
ok....I see....

what if you compressed it say 2:1
i know a toaster guy that says he captures to a 2:1 PNG..... i think...
possible then??
probably not....

i think 6 scsi Cheetah's would be rather expensive

thanx for the replies

JAMIL
09-16-2005, 01:02 PM
What I can say - just try it with your system. Try all ways and you'll find right one.

Jim_C
09-16-2005, 01:18 PM
ok....I see....

what if you compressed it say 2:1
i know a toaster guy that says he captures to a 2:1 PNG..... i think...




PNG is a still format.

Just like John said, you will need a much greater video drive than usual and a couple monster procs to capture 3 streams at once. And then throwing in switching at the same time? Whoooaaa Nelly!!
I'm sure 6 scsi drives is about par. If you tried capturing DV, you will place a huge demand on your procs but less on drives, if RTV than more on your drives and less on procs.

John Perkins
09-16-2005, 01:22 PM
That will help, but compression trades drive space for CPU speed. So you will need faster and/or more CPU's to do the same amount of capture.

Also, the access time plays a part in multiple capture. Just because a stripe set may be able to sustain 100MBps on one transfer, doesn't mean it can skip between 3 video files and still keep up 22MBps each. Oh yeah, at least one audio file too, so now the drives are trying to write to 4 places. The overhead in skipping between the files is bigger than you would think.

If you aren't prepared to spend for a good SCSI RAID, you better just use decks and capture from them later. Cutting yourself short on a live event will come back to bite you.

ScorpioProd
09-16-2005, 04:12 PM
I have one client that records Main, Program and Preview. He can go back and fix some mistakes in post.


Sorry, but that can't work. VT4 only supports TWO inputs at a time. And "Program" would be either "Main" or "Preview", so it's not like there's another input sitting there.

John Perkins
09-16-2005, 04:40 PM
Unless it changed since VT3, yes it does.

It can only have 2 inputs, but it also has a recordable output.

I trained them on how to do it.

If it changed, I'm glad they haven't upgraded.

videoguy
09-16-2005, 04:46 PM
acutally with 4 seagate 250gbs SATA Drives hardware raided with a High Point Rocket Raid 1820a I can play back 4 rtv streams and record 2 at the same time

John Perkins
09-16-2005, 05:48 PM
I keep seeing you post about your Highpoint. Now I'm curious and I need to try one out.

Are you using the onboard RAID or the Windows software striping?

videoguy
09-16-2005, 05:53 PM
I am using the hardware BIOS RAID. the website is www.highpoint-tech.com they cost around 200 bucks for the 8 port version and just plain SMOKE!!

ScorpioProd
09-16-2005, 06:32 PM
Unless it changed since VT3, yes it does.

It can only have 2 inputs, but it also has a recordable output.

I trained them on how to do it.

If it changed, I'm glad they haven't upgraded.

Oh, OK, I didn't realize you meant the recordable output as a source, I thought you were suggesting three actual outside inputs.

jcupp
09-17-2005, 01:41 PM
I keep seeing you post about your Highpoint. Now I'm curious and I need to try one out.

Are you using the onboard RAID or the Windows software striping?

We use the RocketRaids also and they do smoke! I use Windows striping rather than the onboard raid as my testing showed no difference in performance either way and Windows striping is simpler.

John Perkins
09-17-2005, 04:18 PM
So if you are using the Windows striping with no noticable difference in performance, doesn't that make the Highpoint no better than a simple SATA card?

I've done that with several controllers and have been seriously unimpressed.

I'm skeptical, but I do intend to buy one to test.

What drives are you guys using on them and how many?

jcupp
09-20-2005, 10:13 AM
Ah, but it's a 64 bit, 133 MHz SATA so I'm seeing peaks over 200 MB/S. These sorts of speeds wouldn't be possible on a simple (32 bit) controller