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Ross_DD
09-03-2005, 03:42 AM
(sorry for my very bad english language)

with total respect for every opinion, i don't understand entusiastic responses about LW9. Like the previous version 8, the NT concept is the same: give few important changes (features present in all other packages formerly...) and major changes in program-sections while don't need it...
in LW9 there will be edge-tools, N-gons, camera-lens;
all of this features are in all other 3D-programs from many time...
it's better late than never...
major improvements are about rendering engine:
why? the existent LW rendering-engine was not good?...
NT declares more speed improvements about rendering engine:
basically, speed is based on hardware capabilites, or not?
with my dual-G5 2 ghz 64bits with 4 GB RAM, S-ATA Raid and Radeon
9800 Pro 256 video-RAM, i got sufficient speed to realize my images
(i'm an illustrator) at every resolutions i need.
more fasten is better but is this a feature we need it?
Yes, of course, but maybe others program-areas needs some improvement...
another "hystorical" power features is texture-surfacing multilayering
system: NT deserves us node-system (...) for that functions...
LW got the best "native" rendering engine, it's the best for polygonal modeling, for surfacing some difficult materials like reflective surfaces and similar; N-gons and real edge-tool is very important features we are waiting for many times, but in modeler again there's not a construction-history function and again we need to placing some points before to drawing a line...
in modeler there's not a rendering preview function and there's not 3D texture-painting tools but this is a personal preference.
LW have loose the leadership of 3D-tool for illustration and print (majority of professional illustrators use C4D...) and Mac-version is very unstable from the version 8.x...
i don't understand why LW for Mac is not 64 bits... ("Mac-G5" is the absolutely first 64 bit processor and Mac OS X "Tiger" is the first 64 bit OS; wintel&Co are coming now...); always LW was a multi-platform program but recently it seems more pc-oriented...
the most important thing is LW is not more "funny" to use and, looking to new feature previews, this "concept" will be more always.
the most innovative new LW feature is... fprime, an external plugin... (and it's not completely compatible again...)
NT realize the features they "must" realize because all other programs have it already and the changes of the "power-tools" of LW (rendering-engine and multilayer surface-texturing) are not the primary needs for its evolution.
i didn't buyed LW8 and i'll not buy LW9: i'm very sorry.
LW is "gone" with Hastings&Ferguson (have you seen Modo201? that's the
way!): with total and sincere respect for NT.
Lux modo is one of the innovative and revolutionary tool (like zbrush) and its evolution (modeling+painting+rendering) is that i have always dreamed for new LW versions. LW needs the same conceptual spirit of innovation like it was some versions ago...
in every case, i hope i'm wrong.

P.S. i know my opinion about new LW versions is too hard:
please, excuse me.
LW remains one of the best 3D tool and the absolute best for many functions; my opinion is a provocative think i want give to you.
more opinions will be on technical questions, who prefer a tool and who prefer the opposites...
the more important questions is:
is LW competitive again?
is the evolution you wish for it?

ThanX.

Gui Lo
09-03-2005, 05:42 AM
Ross_DD,
I respect your opinions but I would like to share mine, which are from a different point of view.

Since you did not buy LW8 you cannot appreciate how the new tools affect the software. It is far easier to use for dynamics, character animation and modelling. It may not be considered the best but it allows the user to do remarkable things quickly and easily. NewTek has admitted that not much innovation had been done since they have been in a transition period and that we will have propper innovation after LW9.

Tools are being added that have been in other apps for a long time. Actually these tools should have been there in LW7, which was done by Hastings&Ferguson.
If LW7 had been great, Hastings&Ferguson left and LW8 was poor then we would all complain but as it was LW7 was a poor upgrade, LW8 was good and now LW9 looks great.

The application has dramatically changed without us even being aware. To put it another way; they took the bathroom out of our house, moved it across country, installed a transporter while we slept. And when we woke we knew no difference.

It's a pity you never bought LW8 and still see things from a LW7 point of view. The feature list may not impress you but LW8.3 feels much better that LW7.

Gui Lo

UnCommonGrafx
09-03-2005, 07:24 AM
Mac is not 64bit. Do a search on the forums for this info.

Truly, your perspective suffers from old age: it's not the new view to which LW should be guaged by.

You've missed so much conversation on this it's sad; your participation at that time would have been invaluable. As it is now, you are just kicking a dead horse and bringing up old issues.
We have come to call you guys "Alive Plugins" that come to tell us how mondo is so good... You have bought 8 - Just THEIR version of it and only modeller. 8.5 is around the corner. In theory, this should alleviate most of what you've espoused.

I think it was a blessing when the trio left; seems to have breathed new life into the evolution of LW and definitely into NewTek to move on to give the users of LW what had been asked for for more than 5 years.

Captain Obvious
09-03-2005, 09:59 AM
with total respect for every opinion, i don't understand entusiastic responses about LW9. Like the previous version 8, the NT concept is the same: give few important changes (features present in all other packages formerly...)
I don't understand this at all. Let me explain it:

We "all" prefer Lightwave, often because we find its workflow to be inherently superior, it's ease of use, etc etc etc, despite the fact that it lacks a few features other applications have (like SSS). When these features are added to Lightwave, there are even fewer things that would make us even consider switching.




major improvements are about rendering engine:
why? the existent LW rendering-engine was not good?...
NT declares more speed improvements about rendering engine:
basically, speed is based on hardware capabilites, or not?
with my dual-G5 2 ghz 64bits with 4 GB RAM, S-ATA Raid and Radeon
9800 Pro 256 video-RAM, i got sufficient speed to realize my images
(i'm an illustrator) at every resolutions i need.
more fasten is better but is this a feature we need it?
The existing LW render engine is good, but it could use some improvement, especially when it comes to radiosity. Faster is always better. I would much rather render in two minutes instead of four, because it will mean I can do twice as many test renders in any given amount of time. And, seriously, you cannot claim that LW's renderer is fast enough for print-size multiple bounce radiosity renders. Such things take days. They could really use a speed-up.




i don't understand why LW for Mac is not 64 bits... ("Mac-G5" is the absolutely first 64 bit processor and Mac OS X "Tiger" is the first 64 bit OS; wintel&Co are coming now...); always LW was a multi-platform program but recently it seems more pc-oriented...
Tiger isn't actually 64-bit. It's more or less impossible to make a 64-bit 3D application for Mac OS X as things are now. Unfortunate, yes, but nothing to do about it. You can't blame NewTek.




the most innovative new LW feature is... fprime, an external plugin... (and it's not completely compatible again...)
A more open SDK is one of the features for Lightwave 9. This will let Fprime render shaders, all volumetrics, etc. Either way, what do you suggest they do? Buy Worley to get Fprime? Develop their own version and put poor Steve out of business, thusly removing some of the incentive to develop new plugins for Lightwave?

pixym
09-03-2005, 11:27 AM
...major improvements are about rendering engine:
why? the existent LW rendering-engine was not good?...
NT declares more speed improvements about rendering engine:
basically, speed is based on hardware capabilites, or not?
with my dual-G5 2 ghz 64bits with 4 GB RAM, S-ATA Raid and Radeon
9800 Pro 256 video-RAM, i got sufficient speed to realize my images
(i'm an illustrator) at every resolutions i need.
more fasten is better but is this a feature we need it?
Yes, of course, but maybe others program-areas needs some improvement......

Dear Ross,

For Archi Viz ANIMATION work, LW GI engine is too much SLOW, and this rendering engine deverses SPEED.

Ross_DD
09-04-2005, 02:39 PM
Hi,

thank You very much for every posts.

i respect all opinions totally and i'm agree with many Your opinions but i wish i would be clean in some aspects (at the beginning of my post i precise that i don't have complete knowledge of english language).
with total respect: are You sure that Mac OS X "Tiger" is not a 64 bit OS?...
Apple says the opposite... (please, give a look at its web-site)
however my purpose is not Mac/PC "competition" but i don't see nothing from NT about LW 64 bit on Macintosh, but this is another story...
besides, it's obvious to every high-resolution image with activated GI option settings don't resolves it in minutes with nothing to the more powerful workstation...
to new LW9 feature previews (for me it's the same to LW8): i believe the new features don't satisfy me. however, there is some new good features like possibility of modeling adjustments in Layout and some rendering-engine improvements (about this argument i had wrong in my first post, please excuse me).
my point of view is LW don't evolves in a convincent direction:
new features looks good but i think there's not excitant or impressive; many new tools (edges and N-gons in primis) LW needs it from many time and it comes later too; some of other new features don't impress me. i was waiting for some deep-core improvements it can give new "life" to LW not little or "contest-relative" adjustments. i consider LW continue with have not some important tools for me:
no modeling construction-history;
no complete snap-system settings;
no new falloff types;
no texture-painting tools;
no complete and precise drawing tools;
no fast and complete polygonal (micro)displacement;
no native normal-maps;
no easy-to-use rigging capabilities (rigging is always too much
redoundant in spite of LW8 improvements);
no render-previews in modeler;
no internal models and rigs presets libraries;
no new ideas (i.e. "painting-FX" for dynamics, hypervoxels, morph and motion purposes: about "painting-FX" i want to say the possibility of freehand-intervent on animation effect, like hand-drawing motion path in modeler, hand-drawing HV forms, deforming mesh morph, painting for increase/
decrease dynamic intents, drawing for settings intensity, direction and some others in a particle-emitter, via-mouse or graphic-pen...)
i know i can say a bunch of confused things but i'ld want some more powerful features by LW and not little adjustment to the same "structure".
from the beginnig LW got some powerful capabilities like the great quality of native rendering engine, polygonal modeling tools, metanurbs/subpatch, global-illumination, HDRI, endomorph, hypervoxels, and much more.
NT intervents are to refining its winning package a bit at once but in the meantime 3D-graphic world is many changed in the last years and we are seeing the continue evolving of new powerful features (normal maps, micro-displacement, real-time rendering, physic-based lighting algorythms, A.I. behaviours, mass-simulation, extreme 3D-paintings, and much more...);
with every forms of respect to all the great NT competences and skills (absolutely i don't blame it) i believe LW need some more impressive capa-bilities and deep-core rielaboration to give the same excitant impressions of some years go, when LW was a very "revolutionary" tool.

with all of this, i don't want to say LW is not good, LW is an
absolutely great tool and my hope (and all this words) is to become
much more.

Thank You Very Much.

(please, excuse me for the extreme lenght of my posts and for my very terrible english language...)

Gui Lo
09-04-2005, 10:08 PM
Hi Ross_DD,
Which version of LW did you first purchase?

We cannot always look at other apps and expect to see those features in LW. What works well in one app may not be relevant in LW.
Some of the features you list are used when the software has a slow workflow and those features save the user lots of time. LW has demonstrated that it has a fast workflow and so those features will not save the user as much time.

I know LW is going in the right direction because I can see good results in big name products for movies, tv and print.

Gui Lo

Captain Obvious
09-05-2005, 06:08 AM
with total respect: are You sure that Mac OS X "Tiger" is not a 64 bit OS?...
Apple says the opposite... (please, give a look at its web-site)
Yes, I am completely sure. In order to make a 64-bit 3D application, you need 64-bit OpenGL, 64-bit QuickTime, 64-bit GUI, etc etc etc. Currently, only things run from the command line can be entirely 64-bit. Apple aren't exactly lying, but they sure are stretching the truth.


I'm really looking forward to N-gons. i was waiting for some deep-core improvements it can give new "life" to LW not little or "contest-relative" adjustments. i consider LW continue with have not some important tools for me:
no complete snap-system settings;
There are plenty of snapping plugins for Modeler.

no texture-painting tools;
Vertex paint. It could use some improvement, sure, but the tool is there. It's quite useful for texturing painting. Dirt maps and such, at least.

no fast and complete polygonal (micro)displacement;
Adaptive subdivision for Lightwave 9. As far as I've heard, it's faster than micropoly displacement. As far as I've tested it, it's also good enough (in PiXELS3D (http://www.pixels3d.com/), you don't need to use bump mapping, the adaptive subdivision is fast and good enough).

no render-previews in modeler;
I don't see the problem. Just add the object to Layout and render it there. It takes, what, two seconds?

lots
09-05-2005, 10:47 PM
"Mac-G5" is the absolutely first 64 bit processor and Mac OS X "Tiger" is the first 64 bit OS

Neither of these statments are true.

Ross_DD
09-08-2005, 05:28 AM
OK...

with respect:
about Mac and 64 bit, please...

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/64bit/

http://www.apple.com/powermac/

with more respect:
i don't want make any "competitions" about Mac Vs PC or something like that.
about LW:
i use LW from the version 6.5b to actual version 8.3 (at my job).
i repeat: i deeply respect every Your opinions.
my questions are these: i work with LW for print purposes and some video-showreel contents, on Mac-platform from some years.
i had seen the LW evolution in this time and i have some doubts with last
releases (8.x and the new 9.x) that i had explained in previous posts.
now You cannot be right with me or totally disagree, it's OK the same.
my doubts are these:
my humble opinion is i don't have seen the LW evolution that i have been waiting: today LW is not a complete toolset, UP TILL NOW.
some years ago LW is the best 3D-program for Mac-platform and the best 3D-tool for print purposes: today it's not, or better, it's not the only one and comparating with its competitors it don't have a complete toolset:
i.e. in my working pipeline, with LW i want a 3D-painting tool: i must buy another program or plugin (BodyPaint or ZBrush or similar... more or less of 500$; if i consider Modo201 i must spend 700$).
if i want a complete hair&grass generator i must buy Worley Sasquatch (400$)
and i want stop me now...
in the meantime, NT have must release 5 updates to having a stable version and this is a bit not true for my experience because sometimes we have obliged to come back to version 8.01 for various unknown "crashing"... (and without hardware problems or incompatibles)
actually the same NT offer LW8+Vue+upgrade9 at the middle of its normal price: maybe can it mean the same NT know there is some problem?
Or probably it's a marketing choice only.
there is a 3D-program that i never liked me, it's named C4D XL: i don't like its workflow but it gave a complete toolset (integrated 3D-painting too), more affordable spline-drawing tool, a good native render quality and it works very well on Mac (better than LW8 of course): all of this at a minor price of a complete LW-based pipeline (LW+painting tool+Sasquatch+other...).
3D-painting is a feature it give great working improvements to users like me and i have requested this feature to NT for more time (it's logical that NT can't totally based on every requests).
please, don't tell me about Vertex Paint: more or less it's the same of the first release and You cannot say it don't have too much limitations and it's not unstable...
(excuse for my verbose, i'm finishing...)
many Mac-based illustrators was switched on C4D but i don't have the same intention. in the meantime i had seen Modo201 previews, developed by the originary LW team:
this is an example of the evolution i have been waiting to LW
(i.e. to Modeler).
i know and i'm sure to LW is a very good package actually too and maybe it can't be a good solution changing an Award-winning package used by majority of most important CGI studios. i don't think this but i don't feel to give entusiastic comments about LW9 feature previews and i didn't have good responses about its previous version (and relative updates).
with respect, this is my opinion. is it so wrong? i don't believe it...

ThanX.

mattclary
09-08-2005, 05:38 AM
OK...
with respect:
about Mac and 64 bit, please...

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/64bit/

http://www.apple.com/powermac/



Read this. The Apple OS is not 100% 64bit.

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=31412


When we reach a point where we can do that I'm sure we'll plan such an event.

On the Windows side we've had a 64-bit OS for development for more than four years and the overwhelming majority of the work holds good for the forthcoming WindowsŪ XP Professional x64 Edition OS, currently in beta. We've not had that kind of a leg up on the Mac 64-bit project, so yes, we do feel that there is a great deal more work to do for Mac 64-bit development than remains in completing the port to Windows 64-bit. If I am understanding the situation correctly, there are a number of remaining OS issues to be addressed as well for a Mac 64-bit port, even as of the forthcoming Tiger. While the G5 is a 64-bit CPU, Mac OS X is not fully 64-bit at this time. Tiger will allow non-GUI based programs to be 64-bit – but this excludes Layout and Modeler from becoming 64-bit applications until Apple updates the GUI layer to 64-bit.

We do intend to solve those issues that are on our end at best possible speed, as fast as the needed OS changes allow, but there certainly is the possibility that we may not be able to release a Mac 64-bit LightWave concurrently when we release the Windows 64-bit version. That would not be our preference, any more than it would be our Mac users' preference, but it may well be the case given the situation.

mattclary
09-08-2005, 05:47 AM
waiting: today LW is not a complete toolset, UP TILL NOW.
some years ago LW is the best 3D-program for Mac-platform and the best 3D-tool for print purposes: today it's not, or better, it's not the only one and comparating with its competitors it don't have a complete toolset:

So switch to one of the competitors. Posting your ramblings here isn't going to magically make LightWave better. And don't spout that nonsense of you "just want to help Newtek out by showing them there is a problem". Newtek knows more about where they stand in the current market than we do, I assure you. They are doing great things with LightWave. If their changes are not fast enough or good enough, switch already. Posting a 3000 word dissertation is not going to change anything. All it does is come across as someone who dislikes LightWave, which is fine, but we don't really want to hear it.

Gui Lo
09-08-2005, 10:00 AM
If you are using LW6.5b you will already know that LW7 was quite poor. Surely you can see that Modo and LW were done by the same team?
So ask them why.

Do you know that the LW development team is new?
LW8 was mainly a mix of intragrations and plugins brought in by the new dev team and LW9 is their preporation update for much better things to come. It addresses issues that were asked for when the Modo team where at LW and couldn't do.

I agree that LW should and could be much better but we have to be a bit understanding of the task the new crew had. LW10 is when we can be truly critical of the good and bad features introduced.

Ross_DD
09-09-2005, 02:23 PM
OK...

(sorry for my bad english language...)

if You don't want hear words they are not entusiastic responses or not like Your point of view i remember we are in democracy and we are on forum
doing a mental free discussion.
i'm sure i have not offended NT and/or anyone.
if i want switching or not, it's a my choice (and my job-partners).
i don't want help NT to do nothing because i'm not able in all cases.
if You are saying that a critical opinion is " 3000 words of non-sense" i think You have some communicative problems.
if You are sure of Your opinions it's better than You respect opposite opinions when they could be totally wrong for Your convictions too.
if You have some arguments, with tranquillity You explain it.
i give respect to all and, please, You give me respect.
Stop.

(very sorry)

about Mac 64 bit LW porting, i didn't known NT post. now it is clean.
(ThanX for this one) i hope this situation can resolve in a fast time, with sincerity.
also, i know actual NT developers team is a new team (the previous team
are Lux).
i know my language is wrong and my posts are very verbose, if You have some other patience, i'ld try to explain me with clearness:
i'm not saying LW is not good or it's poor of features or similar.
my opinion is LW is based on the same "structure" from years:
this one is good and it got many "point-of-force" (native rendering quality,
poly-modeling, subpatch, video-output, GI, multi-layered surfacing, Photoshop and EPS I/O, and many more...).
on this "structure" the last releases seems to me there is not much innovative improvements: all the new features are tools it was requested to many time (N-gons, edge, render-faster, camera-renders...) and it'ld be "abnormal" it wasn't added this time. it is a "fisiological" evolution.
but it's right, NT don't want rielaborates its program and they are its right reasons for sure.
but i think CGI "world" is many changed in this not too much last years.
and it's changing very fast.
i have seen the working of old dev-team, Lux, they was made with Modo,
(specially with new release Modo201) and the "concept" that Lux have
based its working. moreover Modo is based on LW modeling methods but all "around" it is deeply innovative, versatile, multi-platform and very interesting.
it's just an example, i don't want talking well about other tools, i want to say only i see new LW9 in the same manner of LW8: with moderate interesting.
LW CAN be much better.

i hope i'm in error.

Thank You Very Much.

UnCommonGrafx
09-09-2005, 02:30 PM
I wrote this yesterday, but didn't post it because it wasn't as apparent.


Matt,
Can't see the Alive Plugin?

haha

Seems marketing has been bent again and revved up for the second phase. I hope they upset the balance terribly with 8.5; tip the scales completely with [9].

Ross_DD, Are you trying to sell something (else) or do you actually have a point? You seem to be focused on things that don't jive with the story that's been told. Search the forums and you will find plenty of the Dead Horse you are kicking. We got it. Don't believe you are right, but you've been heard.

[9] hasn't been released so opinions on that are subject to the "nonsense and speculation" realm while the culmination of the 8.5 release will give us an even clearer direction of the the new team in place.

BazC
09-09-2005, 03:06 PM
I wasn't going to comment on this thread but your information is wildly distorted.

"there is a 3D-program that i never liked me, it's named C4D XL: i don't like its workflow but it gave a complete toolset (integrated 3D-painting too), more affordable spline-drawing tool, a good native render quality and it works very well on Mac (better than LW8 of course): all of this at a minor price of a complete LW-based pipeline (LW+painting tool+Sasquatch+other...)."

Cinema is an excellent package, I use it myself but...

Cinema XL retails at about $2000, it doesn't include Bodypaint ($495) or Shave and a Haircut ($395)

Cinema Studio bundle costs about $3000 and STILL doesn't include Shave and a Haircut!

Lightwave at $895 is an absolute bargain in comparrison even without Vue5I!

Oh and by the way, Cinema's spline tools don't allow patch modelling. - Baz

Chuck
09-09-2005, 05:36 PM
Ross_DD,

We appreciate your concern that NewTek take an aggressive and innovative stance in development of LightWave; please rest assured that this is in fact the case. Much of what you say you want to happen, but express that you do not think is happening, we have in fact documented as being in progress. For example, saying that the LightWave core needs reworked but that NewTek is not doing this, is not correct. As we have outlined here:

LightWave's Future: White Paper and Interview with Jay Roth, President of NewTek's 3D Group (http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/lwfuturedev.php)

an overhaul of the core to new code has been in progress throughout the 8.x development cycle. It is already sufficiently changed that the original coders would not recognize it. Code is being revised and replaced using the latest best-practice coding methods and structures, and LightWave will be not just catching up but innovating in the 9.x cycle, as we have already demonstrated innovation in the 8.x cycle by providing the UV subpatch compensation system that offers the most user-control of any of the professional 3D solutions, among many other changes in that series.

Some among our competitors are certainly encouraging the notion that only "throwing everything out and starting over" will produce the newest and best LightWave that all its users want. When you hear these assertions, please consider that one element of effective marketing is to find ways to make virtues out of your choices or your necessities, especially if they can be turned into a way to damage a competitor whose marketshare you particularly want to target. Even better if you can get their user community to think the notion was their idea. The actual fact is that parallel changeover is a proven and effective development methodology that can be used to keep an application at the cutting edge of software development methods and practices in any field.

I would also state that characterizing the 8.x series as a case of it taking five updates for us to bring the product to stability is not accurate at all. Our goal, and what our surveys of the user base indicate that we achieved, is that 8.0 itself was an exceptionally stable release for both platforms and each succeeding release has been even better in terms of stability for both platforms, with the new team aggressively resolving more and more legacy issues in each update.

I'm not sure how LightWave is positioned in Europe with regard to print, but in the several-times-larger US market LightWave is the overwhelming leader and is growing the field by attracting more and more print artists to take up working in 3D and add LightWave to their toolset. I do know that NewTek Europe has put forth a terrific marketing effort that has resulted in strong growth for LightWave in every market sector in Europe, more than tripling the installed seats in the last couple of years.

As to the assertion that LightWave is a more expensive option than others, at the new price structure LightWave and the plug-ins you cite as necessary are less expensive than even the low-end or mid-list option costs offered by our competitors, and those would not match the feature set of the LightWave suite. That set would be a mere fraction of the cost of the top end options actually required in most competitors' product lines to meet that set of capabilities. BazC has certainly outlined that relative to one application that you mention.

It is also the case that the improvements we have planned in LightWave v9.0 are each and every one selected and prioritized by user request. Faster rendering is very important for all users, as it increases productivity and therefore the profitability of their efforts in 3D production. Streamlined workflow throughout the application has the same important effect.

The list of changes that we have provided so far is not exhaustive, as there is much more in development. Every aspect of the application is going to be addressed in the 9.x cycle and much will be profoundly changed, so whatever your uses for LightWave and whatever your primary concerns, please rest assured that those will be addressed and changed for the better during the cycle.

habaņero
09-09-2005, 05:53 PM
* I just like to add a top note to my post that I was not aware I was sharing typing time with the always excellent mr. Baker, I didnīt try to compete with him in making stuff clear as a crystal ball. :i_agree:

Leaving my post as is, itīs what I said.

____

What I have issue with is mostly the way you present the speed of the renderer.

I'm not going to type out the significance of this for the economy and the pricing of lightwave 999 rendernode package, it just should be so incredibly obvious. A difference of 25% performance on a new workstation is easily double the price. Total cost of running a studio with essential plugins, farm, mantenance, upgrades etc, itīs to me a rubbish assessment that chooses to ignore this. It is an assesment that goes no further than the personal situation of the individual that made it, not that it canīt be an interesting perspective. No mention of the price drop either, while on the other hand you take the strange position to discard Worley and other plugin writerīs effort as a part of lightwave development, *since it costs money. In my opinion, that it costs money just means it is good, and that what you can get out of it is worth something.

The total price of Lightwave9+worley fprime, *vue, and a little more is actually less than for LW 8 for a new license. And like, if you have a render farm the math is probably that you in effect will get paid by newtek to upgrade their product. Having the employer pay for it, the price aint maybe such a point to you really, but for the independent users and New users itīs big deal and the community is benefiting.

Even to the segment of single workstation users, twice or a lot more the render speed should be darn good news, your position doesnt make any sense to me as it is the most negative review possible, eg there aint to me a single ray of sushine in your initial post. So I appreciate that you show understanding for this negative type of communication to produce responses that commnunicate more or less negatively towards you and your position, I assume that you believe spreading negativity broadly will somehow produce what you want. While you may, as you say, be right in this, I personally believe it is a highly ineffective and imprecise means of accomplishing about anything. With a positive attitude, if you have a particular problem the community will often help you for free or like their expenses. Much of the world doesnīt work this way at all, we are after all competitors, and my personal opinon is that while I respect your approach, I am worried that not you in particular but the segment of people you represent are bad for this system, that it is taking energy from the community, and that also means to take energy outta Newtek because they care, to take energy that would otherwise be used on contructive projects.

The kindof underlying mantra that "LW aint really revolutionary like back in the days", it might or might not be a good observation but it isnīt really relevant to the tasks at my hand.

The structural change of LW probably means that you can get a commandline 64 bit renderer for mac, at least that is how it seems to me. That separating all the code that has to do with rendering, so that several architecture optimized versions of the renderer can be provided. That this would actully be darn good news to Apple owners. That was what I thougt when I read the press release. You read all the info?

I also believe that to say Modo is built modern and lightwave is the dinosaur actually is a picture that is changing rapidly. As far as I can fetch, the programming process and methods that LW currently is transforming to is way ahead of the as I heard it described old fashioned approach of Modo, much like the approach that produced the current situation. Like the engine work at LW is gonna end up way more tidy and modular than Modo, that modo basically risks to have to go through the process LW currently soon will finish, when they hit the next upcoming wall like hardware revolution or someting. I also got the impression that the workflow thinking wasnīt really "deep" with modo, that there is quite some confused concepts in the package. Not saying that it aint more so in LW 8, but I have good and qualified hopes for the work and spirit of David Ikeda to put pretty much exactly right from the start, instead of stimulating all users to invent their own interface. Just the way I see it, I have as bad a clue about modo as you have about LW 8.3 / 9 i guess.

It also seems 9 might mean or open for a setup where you just put a linux OS disk in the box and plug it in, to make render nodes, of any old mac or pc or whatever. Eg a zero effort setup of a render farm, that any art fags mom could pull off. Which is not an option to be dismissive of in my opinion.

Your english aint really that bad, while slightly choppy it is pretty clear to me what you are communicating and so while we disagree strongly I appreciate both your candidness and your politeness towards the other posters, it is great to be able to have such civilized discussion. :agree:

Ross_DD
09-10-2005, 05:24 AM
Dear Mr. Chuck,

with sincere respect, i'm pleased of Your answer.
my intent is not never give drastic responses or bad sentences about Your working:
i respect deeply every form of working, especially the Yours; You are the Master of LW and always i give You all my sincere respect.
with Your gradite post you have gived me the answers that i want it. You have assured me about my doubts with Your clean words.
if i was gived the impression of incorrect position against You, please, excuse me, there's not my intention.
besides with cordiality i'ld reply to a concept, if i can it:
i don't have based my working-tools choice to marketing strategies of one or others competitors: always i was tried to decide my choice on personal experiences when it is possible.
i know my comparative notions are wrong because it's LW interest to me, not other softwares (for this reason i'm on this Forum).
only things i want to say it's i had some problem with LW8 cycle and i need to purchase other tools for 3D-painting features.
with its post NT have assured me (and everyone) for LW future improvements.
my words is NOT mean LW is no good or it is obsolete or NT don't works well.
of course NT don't need my words and they are working more better than i can thinking.
with modesty i'm trying to thinking with constructiveness, i don't want offend anyone or anything.
sometimes ago i'm one of they have requested a major internal compatibility with ZB2 displace and normal maps: NT give this improvements in LW9.
moreover it wasn't possible to see render previews when modeling but this will be resolved by NT with next new modeling tools in Layout.
with the same "spirit" i'ld asking You some improvements to drawing and painting tools for effective and real workflow needs.
if my posts are not based to enthusiasm it's because i don't have seen improvements in that direction.
i know there is a Forum area called "Feature Requests" but i have wrote in this Forum-area to discussing with You about LW evolution.
NT have gived me its primary opinion and i'm very happy for this.

Thank You Very Much.

Ross_DD
09-10-2005, 01:07 PM
please, excuse me another time.

i have read with attention the interview of NT President about LW future roadmap.
i don't have do it previously.
this is a very more than concrete example of LW Evolution i wish i want!

it is very interesting and, with modesty and humbleness, i'm sure NT are doing a very great work.
there is many new improvements they are innovative, very useful and more excitant (modeling in Layout, versatile and powerful rendering capabilities, especiallly multiple renderer versions optimized for platforms and processors - very very great idea! - updated sdk, paint-splat and many more...).

NT is the first are convinced LW needs a very great innovative impulse, with manteinance of its traditional power together to new improvements.
LW President start its interview to saying "in some areas LightWave leads, and in others, it's behind the times. In regards to workflow, I think there is tremendous room for improvement."
And moreover "Some of LightWave's features have led the industry, such as subdivision surfaces. However, the industry has also established standards, which need to be addressed in the LightWave workflow."
with modesty, i totally agree with these concepts and with all the others too.
after i have read this words i have all the answers to my questions (i know that my posts are imprecise but the only things i want to say it's the need of deeply innovative impulse for LW because it's not LW is no good but it needs to enter in a new phase, a new avvincent "era").

i'm very happy for this with sincerity and i have decided to purchase LW9 for my PERSONAL purposes when i'll got the possibility and when NT will release the final version because i'ld wish the full package with all the contents.

about 3D-painting tools, if they are not possible, i will decide in another way;
the new future LW9 improvements are very importants.
LW is coming back to be the real "revolutionary" and innovatile tool.

the only things i wish i want is a future possibility to using LW 64 bit version on Mac platform and i hope it will be possible in a short time.

please, excuse me for my verbose.

Thank You VERY Much.

grafikdon
09-13-2005, 09:28 AM
I just want a more improved soft body dynamics and crowd simulatuion system like the delegates in Max. EVERYTHING ELSE IN LW works for me. Maybe I am selfish. :D