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cholo
09-01-2005, 10:07 AM
Ok, after using the new codec in 4.5 with great results I started wondering why NewTek went through all the trouble of coming up with a new codec. After all, VT's main selling point is that it can do uncompressed like a champ. It really doesn't make sense to come up with a new codec at this point when most users already have the power needed to go with RTV's all the way. And then it occurred to me... The new codec, with 5:1 compression, 4:2:2 color sampling and low CPU overhead would be the perfect way to fit great looking 5:1 compressed HD within uncompressed SD bitrates. Has anyone checked if the new codec is resolution independent? This would be great news. Maybe HD is closer than we think?

Ivan
09-01-2005, 12:42 PM
I believe that the new codec was developed for TriCaster so they wouldn't have to include a fast raid to do uncompressed and they included it in VT4.5 to make sure that the big brother has the same capability as the little one.

Ivan

UnCommonGrafx
09-01-2005, 01:22 PM
I bet with cholo.

cholo
09-01-2005, 02:09 PM
I just rendered a couple of sequences from within After Effects and it is not only resolution independent, but also accomodates any frame rate. It plays back a 1920x1080 24fps animation from my system drive without a hitch :)

MBeck
09-01-2005, 02:15 PM
So what does this mean? Could we be running HD soon?

ScorpioProd
09-02-2005, 02:40 AM
I wouldn't count on it soon.

The NT25 codec can handle it, but realize that VT[4] 4.5 is still constrained to a SD pipeline.

jport
09-02-2005, 05:59 AM
would HD be possible even if Newtek created a secondary HD board to handle it, just like they do now with the SDI board? HD & VT board side-by-side in a system using a bridge connector.

this is a more logical route than trying to revamp the VT card don't you think?

MBeck
09-02-2005, 07:07 AM
would HD be possible even if Newtek created a secondary HD board to handle it, just like they do now with the SDI board? HD & VT board side-by-side in a system using a bridge connector.

this is a more logical route than trying to revamp the VT card don't you think?

I would be.. but the question is, did newtek put the bandwidth in the card? My guess is no. I am sue they could have.. but I would think that they didn't have the time to spend working on it. I can't see a new card being that big a deal.

With that being said.. I do think there is still a chance to get compressed HD on the current card.

ScorpioProd
09-02-2005, 01:32 PM
Newtek could have designed the VT[4] card as a 64-bit, 66MHz card, but they did not. That would have given them the needed PCI bandwidth for future HD use.

So no, a daughter card wouldn't do anything for the HD bottleneck.

As for "compressed HD", remember, the card is ONLY an I/O device, NOTHING more.

Compressed HDV or even the DVCPRO HD codec that FCP uses requires NO SPECIAL HARDWARE CARD. Simple firewire, that's IT.

The VT card is just a big dongle for anything I do now or in the future.

If Newtek wanted to give us the ability to edit HDV in the near future they could, it's more a case of do they want to. It doesn't seem to fit their "LIVE" oriented style. Luckily, there are plenty of HDV solutions out there, since EVERY other NLE currently supports HDV.

And persepective is the most important thing in marketing. Even if you have NO NEED for HDV now, if you had the choice between a NLE that supports HDV and one that doesn't, which looks more futureproofed and forward thinking?

cholo
09-02-2005, 02:21 PM
In any case, the NT25 codec looks very promising as an intermediary codec for HD work with much better performance and aesthetics than both DVCproHD and HDV. More so with material originated in real HD cameras like Cinealta. I don't think uncompressed HD is in anyone's mind anyway, since it is really a waste of resources for a very marginal gain in quality considering the very fine resolution of HD makes compression artifacts much less obvious. That is unless you're doing HD for the big screen, but that's beyond the scope of desktop video tools.

John Perkins
09-02-2005, 02:44 PM
Don't be so quick to call NewTek slow...

Avid doesn't do HDV and none of the Matrox systems including Axio do HDV.

The ones that do edit HDV don't do it very well. They do it, but aren't exactly usable IMHO, other than Pinnacle.

HD and especially HDV is still very young. NewTek will get there eventually, probably about the time more than 5 users actually have a use for it.

John Perkins
09-02-2005, 02:54 PM
I've sold several Axio systems configured for uncompressed HD, some 8bit and some 10bit. The people who are buying now are definately the all-or-nothing types.

ScorpioProd
09-02-2005, 04:19 PM
Don't be so quick to call NewTek slow...

Avid doesn't do HDV and none of the Matrox systems including Axio do HDV.

The ones that do edit HDV don't do it very well. They do it, but aren't exactly usable IMHO, other than Pinnacle.

HD and especially HDV is still very young. NewTek will get there eventually, probably about the time more than 5 users actually have a use for it.

Gotta disagree.

Pinnacle IS Avid, therefore Avid does do HDV currently. That's partly why Avid bought them.

Axio does HD, and HDV can certainly easily be converted to HD for editing if needed.

In a "VT host" powerful kind of machine, HDV editing isn't bad at all. And there are plenty of clever tricks that make it no worse than DV editing. Best example, the "GearShift 1.5" plug-in to Vegas 6.

But lets assume that HDV editing isn't that smooth... Typical of an early development cycle kind of thing... So when Newtek comes out with theirs... Everyone else will be moving to the next generation ahead... A vicious circle.

videoguy
09-02-2005, 05:18 PM
I beleive That Newtek will Set the Next Video Revolution, Remeber these are the guys who created the first one, whatever they do with HD or (High-Resolution) DV will be great

radams
09-02-2005, 10:35 PM
In any case, the NT25 codec looks very promising as an intermediary codec for HD work with much better performance and aesthetics than both DVCproHD and HDV. More so with material originated in real HD cameras like Cinealta. I don't think uncompressed HD is in anyone's mind anyway, since it is really a waste of resources for a very marginal gain in quality considering the very fine resolution of HD makes compression artifacts much less obvious. That is unless you're doing HD for the big screen, but that's beyond the scope of desktop video tools.

Hi Cholo,

I agree that this codec will be an excellent intermediate format for general production work...the key here is rez and frame rate independence...but this codec is still 8 bit only isn't it...or will it support higher bit depths?

As to big screens...all the Imag stuff is on Big screens...

We are now looking at working with rez and framerate independent systems so from the largest screen down to a cell phone the same basic tools and workflows need to be transparent. I might work on a spot that will go to theaters, broadcast, and to even smart phones....or used on corp closed circiut Networks..ie Walmart etc...so things are totally changing...from Digital Cinema...to production/video over IP....

Just stay tuned ;)

Cheers,

nevmoor
09-02-2005, 11:56 PM
I think that an HD version of VT may be a while simply becuase, as others have stated, NT is kind of focused on LIVE switching. Could you imagine what would happen for them if the were able to create a true uncompressed HD live switcher?? Cha ching( as long as its stable)

I dont know what other options there are out there but I know a certain live venue in NY that upgraded to full HD and fell flat on there faces after spending just over 1mil. to upgrade. They jumped in a little too soon. Who makes HD switchers??

BTW, if VT had multiple SD inputs...........

mikkowilson
09-03-2005, 03:47 AM
"Who makes HD switchers??"

.. Just about all companies that make switcher make HD ones now too, the multiformat ones especially are selling well. Ross, Echolab, S&W, Sony, Grass Valley, For-A ...infact i can't really think of a compnay that doesn't make a HD switcher.

And in comparison to their SD switchers, they arn't *that* different (heh, they all cost a bunch anyway!)

But nowhere in the market segment that Newtek deals with is there a HD switcher out yet.

- Mikko