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ali
08-27-2005, 03:33 PM
Will we be able to see LW under LINUX?

Philippe2
09-28-2005, 05:08 PM
Will we be able to see LW under LINUX?

I really hope so!

I have read http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/lwfuturedev.php

and I have made a search for "linux" on this forum. Linux compatibility is not even listed in the feature request polls! I really don't understand why.

Some linux users have succeeded in running lightwave, see here
http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=493
but there is a problem: the hardware lock is not accessible under wine, even if you install the Linux Sentinel drivers.

-Lightwave's two major competitors ar linux-compatible.
-Lightwave itself is linux-compatible.... except for the dongle part, and some display problems.
-Lightwave's dongle IS linux compatible http://www.e-consultancy.com/newsfeatures/32731/rainbow-s-sentinel-superpro-6-3-0-offers-cross-platform-support-to-make-security-simple-for-windows-macintosh-linux-software.html
... so why is Lightwave still not linux-compatible?


I have a dual athlon linux workstation, with CinePaint, Gimp 2, Cinelerra, and tons of other pieces of software.
Recently, I have bought an HDR FX1 HDV camcorder. I have tryed to capture HDV in Windows 2000, without success. To do this, you need Windows XP, and a less than 6 months old editing software.
To edit HDV on Linux, you need Cinelerra, and a 50 lines C program called mpg1394grab.

All I want to do is to add some Lightwave FX to my HDV videos.


So, I capture my HDV video using mpg1394grab, i converti it into a windows2000 compliant format, i burn it on a DVD,
I shut down my web, FTP, and BitTorrent servers (whiche are serving my HDV videos to my friends)
I boot Windows, immediately get the latest security and antivirus updates, reboot windows, run Lightwave, launch the Gimp to texturize a picture, notices that the gimp plugin I need only works in linux, reboot Linux,....


Solution1:
I get Windows XP, use Premiere Pro instead of Cinelerra, use Photoshop instead of Gimp, etc... :thumbsdow

Solution2:
Newtek listen to us, and we all upgrade to Lightwave 9 for linux. :thumbsup:

lots
09-29-2005, 01:54 PM
Why do you say LW is linux compatable? Just because it runs in WINE? Wine is just a translator for win32 API calls to the linux equivilent... LW needs to be recompiled for linux, in order to run nativly. LW could probably be easily ported to Linux though, seeing as there is an OSX variant, and they can already compile it for x86 binaries.

I'm thinking there is a bit more work envolved with porting to linux though.

Doesnt screamer net work in linux?

Captain Obvious
09-29-2005, 03:16 PM
The existance of Lightwave for Mac does precisely nothing to make it easier to get it running on Linux. The Mac version is written entirely in Carbon, I would guess. The Carbon API is not available for Linux, nor is anything similar to it. Lightwave contains a lot of platform ambiguous code that isn't hard to port (they have render nodes running on Linux, right?), but the Mac version doesn't really help at all. Linux software is a piece of cake to port to Mac. The opposite is not true.

Lightwolf
09-29-2005, 03:38 PM
But... LW did run under Unix before... Irix to be precise. There was a version of LW 5.6 for SGIs back then. Who knows, some of that legacy stuff might be left.

And since apparently 90-90% of LWs code is platform agnostic anyhow, it should be possible to port, the question is if that is a priority for NT or not.
Oh, an lwsn was ported to Linux, at least for 8.2 (you can d/l it at NT Europe).

Cheers,
Mike

Philippe2
09-29-2005, 03:42 PM
Why do you say LW is linux compatable? Just because it runs in WINE? Wine is just a translator for win32 API calls to the linux equivilent... LW needs to be recompiled for linux, in order to run nativly. LW could probably be easily ported to Linux though, seeing as there is an OSX variant, and they can already compile it for x86 binaries.

I'm thinking there is a bit more work envolved with porting to linux though.

Doesnt screamer net work in linux?

Oops... sorry, English is not my native language. what I wanted to say is that you can run Lightwave on Linux (using Wine, of course)
It does not work very well ( there are some display problems, and i am stuck in discovery mode, because Wine can't access the dongle)
but it does work.

Lighwave is a lot less OS-dependent than many other apps. You don't need the latest DirectX drivers to run it, and LW's GUI is rendered internally.

Of course, porting Lightwave to linux may be harder than it seems, but i am sure it is worth the effort.

Jirapong
09-29-2005, 05:00 PM
Get Blender. It's free. Learning is one thing, but once you get through the interface, the rest of doing 3d is the same. It's just your brian.

I have been using LW since 6.5. After being slave and waiting for update, bug fix, I started believe in the free world. The freeware that was contributed by those genious around the world without capitalism head. Engineers who work for passion not for money. No phase "No budget". Who know how many engineers from A/W, Siftimage, Autodesk and even Newtek taking part in those freeware.

Cheer to the free world!

Captain Obvious
09-30-2005, 04:29 AM
I think Blender is horrible enough for me to want to pay for a 3D application. I'm sure the developers are great at programming, blah blah blah, but they really need to take a course or five in user interface design.

Lightwolf
09-30-2005, 04:37 AM
I think Blender is horrible enough for me to want to pay for a 3D application. I'm sure the developers are great at programming, blah blah blah, but they really need to take a course or five in user interface design.
Actually, if you look at what happened during the laste couple of release, especially in the UI department, you can see _huge_ progress ...
It still has its own rules for the UI in general, but then again so does LW and I see that as an advantage :D
I could think of a lot of other (commercial apps) that should take those courses as well ;)
Cheers,
Mike

Captain Obvious
09-30-2005, 04:58 AM
Well, I must admit I haven't tried Blender since 2.[something low]. I suppose I could give it another shot.

And yes, some developers of commercial 3D applications need to take those same courses. Even NewTek's, though the problem is far less in Lightwave than in most applications, IMO.

Lightwolf
09-30-2005, 05:08 AM
Well, I must admit I haven't tried Blender since 2.[something low]. I suppose I could give it another shot.

I check it out every now and then, and am blown away by the progress they make. Still ways to go though...


And yes, some developers of commercial 3D applications need to take those same courses. Even NewTek's, though the problem is far less in Lightwave than in most applications, IMO.
Well, I didn't want to be as blunt, but I think LW could use a couple of lessons as well ;)
Then again, I also think that Macromedia could, and I'm probably alone in that respect :D
Cheers,
Mike

Captain Obvious
09-30-2005, 05:52 AM
Nothing wrong with being blunt every now and then! :)

Lightwolf
09-30-2005, 05:54 AM
Nothing wrong with being blunt every now and then! :)
Lol, I prefer to be sharp ;)

Cheers,
Mike

Jirapong
09-30-2005, 12:47 PM
I agree about the interface of Blender. It will take a while to get use too, the came when I moved to LW a while ago.
My point is the race between freeware development and commercial development. The good thing about commenrcial one is they have budget while the freeware doen't. But the freeware one doesn't have the deadline to meet the marketing mile stone as well. Like 8.5, it was meketed out for a while but there is nothing really happens now. I bet the engineers at Newtek are trying to meet the deadline too. Yeah, when you are on red alert trying to push things in a short period, you likely make mistake.
Well, I don't know either how far blender will go, but who know how far LW will go.
Dont forget, Apache is the freeware too and now most of the web servers are running it. IBM dropped GO their own web server because Apache works better and even e-commerce department there used it to run their servers because it works while the development department was rying to develop GO.

Cheer to the freeware, it at least helps to push the commercial developers doing their jobs.

Philippe2
09-30-2005, 03:36 PM
I think Blender is horrible enough for me to want to pay for a 3D application. I'm sure the developers are great at programming, blah blah blah, but they really need to take a course or five in user interface design.

I want to pay for Lightwave, I just don't want to pay for the proprietary operating system that goes with it.

Windows costed me a lot more than the price of its licence.

The last time I reinstalled Windows2000 (on an newly-formatted HD, with the original CD) I got infected almost immediately after windows's first boot, by a worm that exploits a windows's security breach.
I couldn't download the patch using windows update, so i used my linux box to get it.

But now, i can't do this anymore. The last time that i tryed to get the security updates, Microsoft forced me to get "Windows Genuine advantage", a litte program that associated my windows license with my hardware config (like in Windows XP)
Now, if i upgrade my hardware, i my jhave the same problems as Windows XP users: having to request another product key (or authorisation code, or whatever) just because i upgraded.
If I don't regularly update Windows, i will eventually get another worm.
If i do, i will get... well, really pissed off by all this stuff.

Windows costed me money, hard disk space, maintenance time, data losses, headaches...

Now, I am running Mandriva Linux. It is not a perfect system, there is no funny paperclip explaining me how to write a letter, getting used to Cinelerra was not straightforward, but i am happy with it.

I have seen Lightwave 8's interface on my Linux box. To do that, I had to install Wine, to read FAQs, to edit config files..
I don't care if it does not run "natively". I just want it to run.

As I have read on this Website, Lightwave is currently undergoing major architectural changes. This is the perfect opportunity!

I will never buy a Windows licence again. But I am willing to give that money to Newtek.
In other words:
- I got an email from Newtek, proposing me to upgrade to LW9 for 472 euros.
- A Windows XP License costs 229 euros.
So, i am not going to accept the 472 euros offer, but,

I am willing to pay 472 + 229 euros for an upgrade to a LW version that runs on Linux.

Captain Obvious
09-30-2005, 05:29 PM
Just buy a Mac instead. Lightwave runs on Macs. ;)

toby
09-30-2005, 10:47 PM
I check it out every now and then, and am blown away by the progress they make. Still ways to go though...

Well, I didn't want to be as blunt, but I think LW could use a couple of lessons as well ;)
Then again, I also think that Macromedia could, and I'm probably alone in that respect :D
Cheers,
Mike
God no. Macromedia has crap for interfaces.

I think things are leaning towards Linux, aren't they? Of course NT has considered it, but I remember hearing that the entire interface would have to be re-developed for Linux' display - then they'd have 3 platforms to support, and so would all the plug-in developers like Worley... you want FPrime with that Linux version? :bday:

Lightwolf
10-02-2005, 06:35 AM
I think things are leaning towards Linux, aren't they?

At least as far as big studios are concerned it seems so. Maxon is moving to support Linux and so is Lux (after they have been asked by Disney).


Of course NT has considered it, but I remember hearing that the entire interface would have to be re-developed for Linux' display - then they'd have 3 platforms to support, and so would all the plug-in developers like Worley... you want FPrime with that Linux version? :bday:
Afaik currently the UI is fairly much openGL based, so it shouldn't be too bad to do, and remember, at one time LW ran under X-Windows.
Worley could be harder to persuade since he uses custom UI libraries ... but if there is a market there will be developers.

Cheers,
Mike

PuG
10-02-2005, 07:32 AM
Hi,

Just had another go of trying to run Lightwave8 in Linux (Ubuntu http://www.ubuntulinux.com/), using the latest CVS version of Wine. As always it loads, displays the menu/interface and closes before Layout displays the OpenGL window. I tried this a few times and decided to ask a few questions on the #winehq IRC channel in the hope of finding someone who knows what the problem might be.

I found a person on their who seemed to have experience in using Wine, and suggested that the reason Lightwave fails to load is because child OpenGL/DX windows are currently broken and not functioning properly within Wine; this does seem to make sense, as Lightwave only crashes when it trying to display the openGL window.

Unfortunately the problem may not be corrected anytime soon, and the only suggestion from him was to try an older release of Wine when it was known to work properly, along the lines of 2004 Dec 1st.

Ive downloaded a 2004 version of Wine via CVS, done a compile but have yet had time to try it out; whether anyone already done this I don't know?

Another option is to contact the people at Crossover Office (A commercial version of Wine), they support already a large range of Window products, and you can requesting a specific application to be supported, but you either have to offer them a small sum of money, or show that there is enough users willing to pay for the Crossover product (Its relatively cheep, & they do also offer a trial of their program) if they do support it. :)

(Note* It has already been listed in support apps on the Crossover, but ive neevr managed to get it running with the trial version, so I may email them later at somepoint.)

http://www.codeweavers.com/site/products/cxoffice/

Application Support page:
http://www.codeweavers.com/services/engagements/applications/

Regards,
James

PuG
10-03-2005, 01:21 PM
Hi, couldn't get the old version of Wine to work, so it solves that problem :) I had word back from CrossOver and they quote at about $1,500 to fix one problem, and the trick would be finding out how many issues their may be in total.

Short of a community fund to work with CrossOver, or Newtek creating a proper port I can't see Lightwave in linux anytime soon :(, which is a shame. If you are really keen you can submit a pledge to CrossOver for Lightwave at:

http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=906

Best Regards,

Riplakish
10-04-2005, 08:00 PM
Just out of curiosity, have you tried lwsn.exe as a console app under Wine? I'm thinking about converting all my render nodes, and just running Windows on my workstation.

BeeVee
10-05-2005, 01:56 AM
There is a Linux version of the Screamernet node - you don't need to run WINE for it, it runs directly under Red Hat for sure (I'm not sure for the other distros).

B

Riplakish
10-05-2005, 07:08 AM
Earlier version (8.2). I'd like to keep everything nice and consistent.

Besides, I'm more of a FreeBSD user than a Linux user, and while I can cobble together something that works, I also want to be able to keep my various controllers, config files, etc. all nice and windows-like for easy export to my end users. Perhaps I'll find that, perhaps I won't. Will have to wait and see when I try it.