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View Full Version : "Widgets" in Modeler, etc.



joeldberry
08-15-2005, 08:36 AM
I would like to see 3d handles or "widgets" in Modeler for rotation, scaling and moving. I know that the merging of the two (layout and modeler) is coming in 9, where we already have widgets for manipulating objects; but it would be nice to make sure that these widgets get included in the standalone modeler as well... In layout, of course, these widgets capabilities should be extended to manipulating vertices, edges and polygons. Of course, the option to show or hide the widget is assumed. Almost every other 3D modeling application has this.

I would also like to see a little redX-greenY-blueZ coordinates icon in the lower left-hand corner that changes to reflect the current viewport's plane views. This comes in very handy when the grid is hidden, and also when the viewport is zoomed in to such a level that the axes labels cannot be seen. Again, almost every other 3D modeling application has this.

When modeling in Subpatch mode, it would be nice to see the outlines of the subpatched geometry instead of just the original cage points, and have the vertices, edges and polygons highlighted when the mouse is over them, so you will know what you are going to be selecting/manipulating before you click.

Also, mirroring across other axes is pretty much standard nowadays...

Instancing is also becoming more and more widely needed...

That's it for now...

Keep up the great work...

joeldberry
08-15-2005, 09:47 AM
Oh, and also, an Undo that actually works... that actually Undoes the last actions performed...

EDIT: In Layout, not Modeler.

Dodgy
08-15-2005, 11:51 AM
In subpatching don't you have the cage turned off? I do and just use the subpatch surface for selection and modelling.

joeldberry
08-15-2005, 12:49 PM
In subpatching don't you have the cage turned off? I do and just use the subpatch surface for selection and modelling.

Yeah, I work like that, too -- I really meant for the two suggestions to be taken together, and I guess it's not really possible now, as there is no true "edge" support in Lightwave.

In Silo, for example, you can just move your mouse over an object and it highlights vertices, edges or polygons, so you'll know what you're grabbing. Right now, it's kind of pointless, since you have to be in "point" or "polygon" mode; but for future versions of Lightwave, it sure would make things go a lot smoother...

Especially since they are changing the engine, maybe they can add this sort of "tweak" functionality, too...

Thanks,

jdb

Captain Obvious
08-15-2005, 12:57 PM
Oh, and also, an Undo that actually works... that actually Undoes the last actions performed...
One of the many things I really like about Lightwave compared to the competition is the fact that undo actually works as I expect it to most of the time... :p I guess your mileage varies.

joeldberry
08-15-2005, 01:58 PM
Well, a good example:

This morning, I created a scene with a center object and several lights placed around it in Layout -- just like I wanted. Then, I created a motion path (flat disc primitive, create closed curve, delete big, round polygon), exported it as a motion path, and then brought it into Layout, attached the camera to it, pointed the camera to the object (wanted the camera to spin around the object), forgot auto keyframe was on, and somehow it screwed up the placement of the camera/motion path. So, I figured I would just undo, and bring the motion path back in.

Wrong.

Undo just started undoing my light setup, and had no affect whatsoever on my camera or the motion path...

That sucked...

Dodgy
08-15-2005, 03:11 PM
In that case you need to make a distinction. When you said Undo that actually works, you meant in Layout. From your previous comments i thought you meant Modeler which has a full undo.

To be honest I hate the idea of widgets in modeler. I like the system which is place a lot more than every other package in which you have to reach for handles. Even in Layout you have widgets, you don't have to use them to rotate and move or scale. To rotate points around a point you just have to place your cursor at that point and rotate. With other packages you have to move the pivot point or some other arcane operation before actually doing the rotation.

I'd like most of the other stuff sometimes I do get lost when rotating around the view as to which way is up.

Captain Obvious
08-15-2005, 03:23 PM
I don't think I've *ever* used undo in Layout... :p

Chris S. (Fez)
08-15-2005, 03:27 PM
Modo offers fantastic workflow for working in perspective views, with or without handles. Newtek should do it their own way but i really think the Modo developers are onto something.

joeldberry
08-15-2005, 03:36 PM
Right, I should have specified Undo in Layout... regardless, Undo should be Undo, should be Undo, wherever it exists.

Regarding the "Widgets" that's why I said there should be an option to turn them on and off. Even in Modo, you can "haul" your tool functionality (which is basically like Lightwave -- not using the widgets) but for some find tuning work, and restricting to one axis, it really comes in handy, especially when you want to work in a viewport that is displaying a plane different than the one you want to restrict on.

I don't use them all the time -- and sometimes they just become annoying -- but it's nice to have the option. There is a place for widgets, regardless of whether people like them or not...

Chris S. (Fez)
08-15-2005, 05:42 PM
There is a place for widgets, regardless of whether people like them or not...

Absolutely.

Lewis
08-20-2005, 08:40 AM
Yes widgets/gizmos/handles or whatever they are called are NEEDED in modeler but one essential thing is to be able to ON/OFF them WITH shortcut or what i'd like the most that they are based per window like grid or other window based things. So I could have them turned on in perspective window (or any other) but not in all windows. Best way for that IMHO would be small TEXTUAL icon on top of each window like current for zoom,pan,rotate and switch to one window layout.

but shortcut is a MUST 'coz i don't like to enter the display menues to turn on off grid and other things now and i'd hate it if I need to go in display menu for turning gizmos/widgets/handles ON/OFF each time liek imust do now with background presets, grid and few other things :(.

cheers

LW3D
09-14-2005, 03:30 AM
I agree all the post in this thread.. Widgets must have feature for modeler...And we also need real Symmetry tool...

lardbros
09-17-2005, 01:49 AM
I've asked this question before, and never got an answer that helps... how do people using modeller actually move polygons out on their normal? or resize on their normal? or rotate on their normal?

Their is a tool called 'point normal move' but it makes the polygon larger as you move it.

Just always wondered how other wavers do it. It's bloody easy in other software, and would be nice not to have to choose ANOTHER move tool. Only widgets or something similar can help in this instance i reckon.

So how do you guys extrude along a normal? use smoothshift?
Surely the extrude tool on it's own should do it. and how would you extrude every polygon individually, along their normals on an object, you can't use smoothshift because the polys will all merge.

Surrealist.
09-26-2005, 04:16 AM
I've asked this question before, and never got an answer that helps... how do people using modeller actually move polygons out on their normal? or resize on their normal? or rotate on their normal?

Their is a tool called 'point normal move' but it makes the polygon larger as you move it.

Just always wondered how other wavers do it. It's bloody easy in other software, and would be nice not to have to choose ANOTHER move tool. Only widgets or something similar can help in this instance i reckon.

So how do you guys extrude along a normal? use smoothshift?
Surely the extrude tool on it's own should do it. and how would you extrude every polygon individually, along their normals on an object, you can't use smoothshift because the polys will all merge.

Thanks for reminding me of this, I really have to brush up on some of these tools.

There is a tool called translate plus under translate/more. In this tool you can choose to rotate, scale or move. Then you can chose the axis or point normal and segment(poly) normal as the axis of move rotate and scale.

The little blue circles:

For Point normal click one (there will be one for each point)

For Segment normal chose 2 that will define the face you want to be the normal. On a box that would be diagonal.

Is this what you meant about other move tools or did you forget all about it just like I did?

I really have to force myself to start using this stuff...so many tools.

Oh, and to extrude every poly on it's normal. Would that not be the bevel tool with 0 inset? Or do I not get your meaning.

lardbros
09-26-2005, 08:40 AM
You have gotta be joking?? I've never used that tool before, never read about it anywhere (must have skipped that bit in the manual somehow) and now i have to apologise to Newtek for being so brilliant and having a tool that does what i've needed!! I'll try this out when i get home. How come no-one ever pointed this out last time a asked yonks ago?

You might be my saviour! (better check it first, just in case it isn't what i'm after, but it sure as **** sounds like it is!) :D

You're a star! :thumbsup:

Surrealist.
09-26-2005, 12:56 PM
No joke. :D

Though I have to admit my methods may seem a little obsessive to some. I actually went through the entire manual before doing anything. (other than playing with the tools as I went along) I wanted to at least know what tools were available before I got knee deep in a project and found out too late I was spending too much time trying to do something for which there was a tool to make it easier.

The downside is many great "hidden" tools have gone by the wayside because I could not remember everything. The upside is that so many times I have at least had a faint memory that something like that could be done - in this case as a perfect example - then I at least know it is there and where to look. Thing is I have not had a need for this tool too much. It is by perusing the forums or in some cases just like you complain that something isn't there only to by embarrassment find out that I had actually read about it and used it on my first time through.

A perfect example of this for me is the right click and drag on the point radial fall off tool. That little interactive circle that sets the fall off for move.

I went for a good month - even posted a feature request for it - using the tool and tryig to figure a way to have presets because I was using it to edit head meshes. I think it was a proton video where he used it on another tool and stated that all the tools have it. I was floored. Went back and sure enough, all that time I had spent trying to get multiple presets, useless. The interactive solution was right there all along.

Anyway one of the few things that you can say the manual is better at defining is the translate plus tool. It is in the translate section of the modeler manual. Have fun. :)

lardbros
09-26-2005, 02:10 PM
Yep, does what i had hoped and more really!! Not the most intuitive way of working with polygon normals etc, would still be much easier with a visual aid like a widget that was accessable with every tool and function! Rather than using a smoothshift and THEN having to use the translate plus tool, bit long winded i think.

About the right clicking of the falloff types... i didn't work that one out for a while either. Only when i watched one of Splinegods videos did i realise that right-clicking makes it fully interactive and also one of the best falloff tools in any modeller i've used! :D

Thanks for being "a little obsessive" about reading the manual... it's a good habit, and one that i will use from now on! :D

Surrealist.
09-26-2005, 02:40 PM
Glad it did what you need. You are welcome. And thanks again for the inspriation to start useing the darn thing. :D