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Chris S. (Fez)
08-15-2005, 01:40 AM
Sooooo...will we finally, at long last, get some sort of smartskin implementation in 9?

Vertexpaint in Layout is cool and all, but for tweaking deformations it would be much more useful if we could bend the bones to extreme angles and paint weights directly in the Layout interface.

9 looks pretty sweet. Can't wait.

hrgiger
08-15-2005, 03:45 AM
For the 77th time, I'm with you Fez.

But I am thinking that with the modeler core now being added to Layout, it's just a matter of time...

Chris S. (Fez)
08-15-2005, 09:52 AM
I appreciate your support, HR. You have become my Smartskin sidekick (that is not an invitation to put on tights).

I am really excited about the possibilities for integration and agree it is probably just a matter of time. I just selfishly feel smartskin deserves some priority (I also feel like a whiney kid, requesting the same feature fifty times).

However, I also grudgingly admit that there is A LOT on that Lightwave 9 list (like rendering speed, edges, and those sweet new subds) probably more important.

mav3rick
08-15-2005, 11:40 AM
well i want modeler to stay modeler and i want layout to have some modeling teweaking abilityes like creating motion splines/ tweaking deformers(lattice deformers)/ animating created splines/ editing skelegons etc... i dont need full scale modeler in layout

hrgiger
08-15-2005, 12:14 PM
i dont need full scale modeler in layout


Nor do I. But I do need vertex control in Layout. That running a dynamics sim and then editing points via the dynamics tab just isn't cutting the proverbial mustard. Really.

theo
08-15-2005, 07:53 PM
That running a dynamics sim and then editing points via the dynamics tab just isn't cutting the proverbial mustard. Really.
Nice idea...but sooooooooo time consuming.

Mipmap
08-16-2005, 08:10 PM
I agree as well, I've been expecting this only to be disappointed ever since v5. Its getting old seeing a $300 application like Hash Animation Master having smart skin but Lightwave doesn't.

I'm not talking about any more hacks either. We want real smart skinning, where we move the bones, and see the real deformation, remodel it to where its correct. Then once we've done a few for each joint we can just animate our character with the program making the adjustments depending on the bone rotations, and the joints will look fine each time.

No more morph plugins, expressions or anything like that.

CB_3D
08-16-2005, 10:29 PM
No more morph plugins, expressions or anything like that.

Amen to that!

SplineGod
08-16-2005, 10:40 PM
Since the modeling tools will be added into layout (keyword of the day - INTEGRATED into layout) theres no reason why the modeling fuctions wont be animatable. I spoke to many of the developers at siggraph and it was pointed out that one of the big advantages of the modeling tools in layout would be that they would be animatable. Newtek has a bunch of smart guys developing for them now. I was told that this is the biggest the dev team has ever been on Lightwave. Point level animation in layout is one of the reasons to have the modeling tools there. Smartskinning is not the only thing that will come about because of this but things like animated booleans, animated rail extrudes etc etc etc. :)

prospector
08-16-2005, 11:13 PM
Don't know why it takes some crazy scheme like integration to do it.
Just use weightmaps that can be mixed.

Get your weights set for a back arm move, front arm move, up and down
then when bone rotates it uses the weight for that direction or a combination of any 2 that are close down/front down/back.
It SEEMS that would be easy enough to program rather than some *cough* integration.

SplineGod
08-16-2005, 11:17 PM
As long as I can move points and have them show up in the graph editor that will make my day :)

hrgiger
08-17-2005, 04:38 AM
As long as I can move points and have them show up in the graph editor that will make my day :)

Absolutely.

CB_3D
08-17-2005, 09:52 AM
There´s still the matter of shifting crossinfluences from bones in relation to points. I hope that will be adressed for a complete Smartskin solution.

hrgiger
08-17-2005, 10:59 AM
CB-3D, I'm thinking that we could bend a bone, reshape the joint, save that as a morph (all within layout), and then tie that morph to that bone position via the Joint Morph plug-in.

Emmanuel
08-17-2005, 11:14 AM
Yeah, sounds reasonable, they need anyway to work out something that doesn't require every point to be animated all the time (Ya know, knowing LW's development history, I am always prepared for some NewTekkish complicated implementation of obvious and simple things).
It would be great to be able to sort of bake or record just the required deformation, and not the real animation path of the involved vertices, which probably would bog down the system, add to the RAM requirements etc etc etc...we need some new and elegant ways of doing this, not a brute force thing.
The dev team definitly is already picking some of the worms out of that can they opened :)

whiles145
09-29-2005, 01:45 PM
Well its been a while since I checked out the Lightwave news, but as far as I can tell not a lot has changed.

Every time I read about smartskin and such I think about smartmorph. Why oh why isn't the plugin smartmorph part of Lightwave? I really want to be able to do corrective morphs for joints, and smartmorph seems like the only real way to go (at the moment anyways).

I don't mind buying the plugin, but one thing I don't like about plugins is that as Lightwave changes versions the plugins don't always work. I've seen things like this integrated already with other 3d applications. It really blows my mind as to why newtek hasn't fixed its morphmixer to apply morphs after bone deformations (or at least give you the option). I mean, yes, motion designer or soft fx lets you manipulate points per keyframe, but I don't want to reshape everytime. I want to reapply shapes I've already created.

Sigh. SplineGod, have you heard anything lately?