PDA

View Full Version : Ghoulish Short Film for critique!!



lardbros
08-14-2005, 01:39 PM
Hey guys and gals, I've finally got my website finished and am now able to show some of my work. I did a short film for my dissertation at University a year and a half ago, but was unable to let people see it due to bandwidth problems at my end. :thumbsdow

Finally i now have a website so the film can be seen by anyone who wants to look. My website is in my signature or the direct link to the film is Short Film HERE (http://www.lairdsquared.co.uk/videos/short_film.avi)(12mb) Right click the link and save target as, on PC. Originally the film was rendered at PAL resolution, but unfortunately i squeezed it down for the net. Some things are unclear because of the size, but for the most part things are clear. :D

I had around 5 months from conception to completion, along with 10 other modules to complete running concurrently, quite tricky for my first animated short but I tried my best for the time.

I learned a HUGE amount while doing it and had never attempted anything near as substantial at the time. My advice to anyone wanting to learn anything to do with animation is to jump in feet first... you'll learn so much.

Anyway, Please feel free to crit or comment on the film.

Thanks for taking a peek and :lightwave

Cheers,
Tim

richdj
08-14-2005, 02:13 PM
:jester: Cool job Tim.....

Rich

Tiger
08-14-2005, 03:49 PM
Nice short...I like the mood! 8~ :D

lardbros
08-15-2005, 12:08 PM
Thanks for the comments both of you... always great to hear what people think.

etyrihje
08-16-2005, 04:50 PM
Could you post the film in a more "friendly" format, WMP or Quicktime, I canīt see it but Iīd LOVE to!

edit:left out the "r" in friendly...

lardbros
08-17-2005, 05:56 AM
Yep indeedy, it may take a couple of days to get up on my website hosting. I think it'll be WMP over quicktime simply because i've never had any luck whatsoever with my Quicktime output.

If anyone has any tips on how to produce nice quicktime movies please let me know... mine always tend to be huge in size and crap quality to boot. Maybe i can post a quicktime one aswell, if i get it sorted, so i can get all bases covered.

riki
08-17-2005, 07:35 AM
mmmm I'm just getting the white screen of death ;(

lardbros
08-17-2005, 09:55 AM
Blimey... didn't realise how unpopular the codec I use is!! I promise i'll get something sorted as soon as i get back from work. Which would people prefer? Quicktime or WMP? Obviously Mac people will want the quicktime, so i'll give that a go first i think. Any tips on small file sizes and good quality though?

Sorry guys and gals!!

newlands
08-17-2005, 09:39 PM
I had a problem until I updated the stupid media player.... Not just your vid, others as well.

Very cool. Worth upgrading to see it. I was thinking towards the end, "what the heck is he going after?". I like the shot of the reflection in the door knob.

riki
08-17-2005, 09:43 PM
Sorenson3 is a good delivery codec.

lardbros
08-18-2005, 01:01 PM
I had a problem until I updated the stupid media player.... Not just your vid, others as well.

Very cool. Worth upgrading to see it. I was thinking towards the end, "what the heck is he going after?". I like the shot of the reflection in the door knob.

Cool, thanks newlands! It's great to hear peoples thoughts after watching it for the first time. I thought people may pick up on the nowhere near perfect animation, but hopefully the story takes the viewer away from that?? The doorknob shot seems to be a resounding success... most people i have shown like that shot.

The codec i chose normally comes with most windows versions... even have it on my windows 98 machine... always problems with video no matter how widespread the codec is. :thumbsdow

As for quicktime, i'm having major problems with Adobe Premiere recognising my original movie file (i ripped my DVD for it). I think the problem lay when i installed some XP codec pack, uninstalled it, but not sure it's gone. I just get the message from Premiere: "Unrecognised compression used for this file" OR "Unable to open file. File recorded at an unsupported rate. The supported rates are 11khz 22khz ...... etc, etc!"

Anyone else had this prob? It worked fine until i formatted a few months back and literally JUST installed Premiere 6 again now and it doesn't accept all video files. ODD, very odd. I managed to recode the one from my website, but i wanted to use the original file to preserve the quality. Oh well, i'll put up the quicktime file tonight hopefully... it'll be a whopping 17.8 meg file despite being smaller in resolution and crap sound rate too, thats bloody huge. Using sorenson format too, can't keep the file sizes down at all.

jklop
08-18-2005, 09:10 PM
That short was cool and now i am more inspired to start on my first film, but i have a few questins if you do not mind. What software did you use was it just LW or did you use any more and if so what did you use to create the sound and is thre a limit on how long the film could be, thanks for the inspiration and the time, maybe my first film will be posted in a year or so.

lardbros
08-19-2005, 06:27 AM
That short was cool and now i am more inspired to start on my first film, but i have a few questins if you do not mind. What software did you use was it just LW or did you use any more and if so what did you use to create the sound and is thre a limit on how long the film could be, thanks for the inspiration and the time, maybe my first film will be posted in a year or so.

Thanks jklop... fire away, i don't mind answering any questions at all. I used just lightwave for the modelling, rigging, lighting and animation. I used photoshop for the textures. Plugins for Lightwave i used were Sasquatch, my university had a major LW nut as a lecturer :D . Trying to remember what else i used...

Ah, Adobe After Effects for the scrolling credits at the end, going behind the gravestone... and finally Adobe premiere for video and the sound editing/construction. Many of the sounds i found were altered beyond recognition and were found on the internet (i hope they were royalty free, but it's tough to tell.) I found them on www.findsounds.com, good if you need sounds very quickly. I wish i had created a soundtrack for the film but just didn't have enough time, or enough knowledge of Cubase.

I'm not entirely sure what you would mean by time limit? If you meant set by my university for the dissertation, there was no limit on length of film at all. Just that not many people attempt a full short film. Most people did a couple of scenes so the examiners get the idea of their capabilities. I didn't because i wanted a finished story.

If you mean: is there a limit to the length of film you can do using Lightwave? Then, nope, the world is your oyster... as long as you have the time, patience and willing, you could make a whole feature film in your bedroom. (wouldn't that be brilliant!!!) The separate scenes are all edited together at the end (or near-ish the end, it's hard waiting) anyway, so whatever you render from Lightwave will be part of the scene jigsaw that fits the rest of your story.

ALWAYS make sure you have a complete set of storyboards for your film/animation... it makes life a million times easier, and creating a rough timing with these boards and using Adobe Premiere helps immensely too! You can even add sound to get an idea of how the sound works with the action.

GOOD LUCK, and i look forward to seeing the results.

jklop
08-21-2005, 08:03 PM
Hey it is me again with a few more questions < how did you learn to do all the stuff you needed to do. is there a web site or something?

Tiger
08-21-2005, 09:14 PM
Since I downloaded codecs from here http://www.free-codecs.com/
I have no problemas watching movies :thumbsup:

lardbros
08-22-2005, 04:31 AM
Hey it is me again with a few more questions < how did you learn to do all the stuff you needed to do. is there a web site or something?

I learned through quite a few years of teaching myself. Started with free versions of software on the front of magazines... Imagine, Extreme 3D by Macromedia and then moved on to bigger and better stuff. Even used Bryce for a tiny amount of time, easy to get bored of it though.

So i guess the answer to your question is just with patience and alot of time messing around with settings and learning from magazines like 3dWorld and online forums like this one. This forum is by far the best way to get answers. Take a good look at Flay.com too, they have an extensive list of tutorials for Lightwave and have other great things too.

For the most part I just taught myself everything, although going to university to do a degree in animation helped due to the fact that you get the equipment you need to be able to teach yourself. You don't tend to get taught like the school way, just get given the means to teach yourself.

Other stuff during the project that i found toughest was figuring out about DVD authoring and how to go about getting the film on DVD. Luckily there was plenty of answers from this place and other forums like Spinquad.com

Hope I've answered in enough detail.

Cheers,
Tim

krimpr
08-24-2005, 07:00 AM
HA! Really liked your work; watched it three times. Nice job.

lardbros
08-25-2005, 12:19 PM
HA! Really liked your work; watched it three times. Nice job.

Thanks krimpr... THREE TIMES?? You must be a glutton for punishment! :D
I'm glad people can watch it 3 times and not get bored of it (although you never said you weren't bored :o )

I'm so amazed by all the positive comments, i'm desperate to start on a new film now... can't wait! :thumbsup:

Sculley
08-25-2005, 05:46 PM
Hey Lardbros.. Gr8 to finally see your short... I was impressed.. really enjoyed it.... I found the leg and long left arm funny :) but then.. that might just be me.

What you up to now then?

www.vfx-sjc.co.uk

Demon
08-26-2005, 07:30 AM
well done! :thumbsup:

on my comuter why too dark but still nice. only thing i have to add is: the blending from scene to scene is a bit ermmm, how to say, irritating. if u smoothblend a scene than u imply that the current "chappter" is over and a new one begins. u need sharp cuts, if u want to keep the viewer and the feeling of beeing in the same scene. I hope u know what i mean. but besides that its GREAT :hey:

cheers

Demon

lardbros
08-26-2005, 10:43 AM
Hey Lardbros.. Gr8 to finally see your short... I was impressed.. really enjoyed it.... I found the leg and long left arm funny :) but then.. that might just be me.

What you up to now then?

www.vfx-sjc.co.uk

Hi Sculley! You were at teesside uni weren't you? Were you the guy working on the boat animation? I would like to see it! I'm glad people are enjoying the animation, didn't think every response would be so positive... THANKS GUYS!!

About the leg and long arm... some people (mainly women) go "eurgh" and cringe, and blokes tend to laugh at his misfortune! :D

At the moment i'm still looking for a job in the industry, but am working in a print room while i apply for jobs. Hopefully moving back to the north sometime soon, and managed to get a bit of freelance work at the start of this year. Since then, it's been dead quiet! How about you? You graduate this year or last?



well done!

on my comuter why too dark but still nice. only thing i have to add is: the blending from scene to scene is a bit ermmm, how to say, irritating. if u smoothblend a scene than u imply that the current "chappter" is over and a new one begins. u need sharp cuts, if u want to keep the viewer and the feeling of beeing in the same scene. I hope u know what i mean. but besides that its GREAT

cheers

Demon


I had issues with the darkness. I wanted it to be clearly dark, but still visible. It was fine on my final DVD and the final rendered stills, but the second you apply any sort of compression it went really dark. Sorry about that, i guess i could have lightened it up in Adobe Premiere, but everyones monitor is different. LCD ones tend to show it up too light, very odd.

Completely agree about the fades and cuts. I tried out different ways of cutting, but my knowledge of film cuts etc was poor at the time. I should have known that a sharp cut is for camera change and a fade is for scene. Sorry if it's irritating, i can see that i overused it way too much.. and infact it is quite irritating isn't it?!! :)

Surrealist.
08-26-2005, 03:28 PM
Hey I wangted to check it out. What codec are you using? I'll need to down load it or are you going to post it as a .mov

All I get is distorted colors in the media player and my NLE does not recognize the video. Must be the codec.

Sounds good though. :)

lardbros
08-26-2005, 04:46 PM
Hey I wangted to check it out. What codec are you using? I'll need to down load it or are you going to post it as a .mov

All I get is distorted colors in the media player and my NLE does not recognize the video. Must be the codec.

Sounds good though. :)

Sorry, was in the process of converting it in the last 5 days but my PC went nuts a couple of days ago and i have just sorted it out! :cursin: Sometimes they drive me insane! Right, it should be up tomorrow... so i'll post the link as soon as it's done.

I thought the compression i used for the others was MPEG2 but it's WMP9 i think. The MOV version will be up so no need to install it! Still not happy that i can't get decent quality with the MOV, but hey, i tried my best! :D

Surrealist.
08-26-2005, 07:27 PM
Good Deal, Looking forward. :thumbsup:

Surrealist.
08-29-2005, 01:09 PM
Still Waiting. Popcorn is getting stale. :)

Do you guys do popcorn at the theaters in England?

Anyway, if you are having trouble I don't mind installing a codec.

lardbros
08-29-2005, 01:26 PM
Sorry, i have been trying...

I managed to get two Quicktime movies... one 17meg and very disappointing quality to be honest. Then i have one that is nearer 50meg, which is nice quality, but clearly quite big. I figured most people have broadband these days so they probably wont mind. Anyway, i started to upload the file, and struck a problem, my FTP host for my site wont resume uploads anymore. I know they used to, but for some reason i can't now.

(I need it to resume, i only have dialup and it cuts off every 2 hrs, nowhere near long enough to upload 50 meg.!!)

I have reinstalled CuteFTP a few times since and wondered if it was a setting within the options that i need to alter? When i enter my domain, it clearly says "the site can resume broken downloads" so maybe it is a problem my end.?

I dont really want to upload the 17meg one because the quality is appalling, it really is!

PS
We do have popcorn here in ye olde England... surely we invented it?? ;)

Just letting you know that i am trying, and i do want to get the QT version up just so the mac users can have a peek too, there's plenty of them!

Surrealist.
08-29-2005, 06:29 PM
Well man I feel your pain. Looking forward to it.


We do have popcorn here in ye olde England... surely we invented it??

I wasn't sure about that as I typed it, I know you guys have some food things that are completely different than US.

I wonder who did start the "tradition" of popcorn and movie theaters?

Anyway again looking forward to seeing it.

lardbros
08-30-2005, 06:05 AM
Righty then... it's up on my hosting place... but i'm at work right now so will have to guess the link to it:

Here goes: Short Film 17.3 meg QUICKTIME (http://www.lairdsquared.co.uk/videos/Short_filmQTsmall.mov)

Thats a guess, but it works, so it was a bloody good one! I'm sorry that it's the bad quality one, but if you put your brightness up slightly (i did alter in and save it to the QT movie but am not sure whether it saves it over. I also moved the contrast down slightly within QT player, which helped a bit.) and have good eyesight everything should be fine.

FINALLY, i can say .... enjoy!! :D

Mebek
08-30-2005, 09:46 AM
I wonder who did start the "tradition" of popcorn and movie theaters?
I hear that before popcorn, people used to eat deviled eggs in theaters. Saw this on some documentary, I think...

As far as the Quicktime conversion goes, what settings are you using? What I usually do is use Sorenson, limit the data rate to 300 kb/s, and keyframe every 15 frames. I set the resolution to 320x240, and I get decent results and a small file size.

lardbros
08-30-2005, 10:44 AM
I used very similar settings for the one that came out at 50mb. The one i posted above is around 300pixels wide, with poor sound quality, although still stereo (because i mixed the sound specially for stereo). The only difference is that i didn't set a keyframe for every 15 frames, i didn't even look at that setting. (maybe that's what's causing the sizes?) I also knocked down the quality setting to about 55, which is why it looks so bad. Shame it came out looking worse than the WMP version which was a higher res and perfect sound?! I know QT is supposed be be very good, but i just haven't managed it myself!

Thanks for your QT info!

fyrissian
08-30-2005, 01:14 PM
*chuckles* Very nice! I LOVE the pun!

fyrissian

jbr3d
08-30-2005, 02:34 PM
I like the way the camera pans and the tight and wide shots, you did a great job :thumbsup: .....I liked the dragging left foot, I was thinking if it would be
cute to see some T.P. stuck on his foot as he walked away :hey:

lardbros
08-30-2005, 02:51 PM
*chuckles* Very nice! I LOVE the pun!

fyrissian

Cheers fyrissian... glad you laughed and like the pun! :D


I like the way the camera pans and the tight and wide shots, you did a great job .....I liked the dragging left foot, I was thinking if it would be
cute to see some T.P. stuck on his foot as he walked away

Again, thanks so much... im still gob smacked at your responses everyone. Making a short like this it's tricky for me to find it funny after the millionth time of watching and re-working the storyline, i lost all hope of it being at all amusing... but you guys have been reassuring. My sense of humour isn't to far removed from the rest of the world. Shame it makes me cringe watching it now.

Now with T.P. on his foot, that WOULD have been brilliant and a great way to finish... why didn't i think of that?! :lol:

It wouldn't have been at all possible without good ol' lightwave! :lwicon: :thumbsup:

Surrealist.
08-30-2005, 06:35 PM
Well worth the wait. Thanks. :)

Nice job all around.

Have you thought about entering it into any short fests?

lardbros
09-01-2005, 06:46 AM
Well worth the wait. Thanks. :)

Nice job all around.

Have you thought about entering it into any short fests?


Wow, cool... thanks. Was doubting if it was going to be even worth your anticipation... pleased you liked it.

I entered it into a animation festival in the North of England called Animex and held by my University. It's getting pretty good and big, but unfortunately my entry wasn't chosen. I fully understand though, entries are taken from all over the globe, and one of them last year was Tim & Tom (which was quite incredible). Oh well, ONE: i should have entered more than one festival and TWO: i think the film has to have been finished in the year of entry to the festival, but i might not be right with that?! (it is like that with Animex though).

Thanks to everyone who downloaded my film and the ones who have commented on it here. I began to think that my decision to be an 3d artist may have been a bad choice (plenty of rejected applications), but after your very positive comments, i will continue to look for work and build my portfolio!

YAY

Surrealist.
09-01-2005, 04:49 PM
Wow, cool... thanks. Was doubting if it was going to be even worth your anticipation... pleased you liked it.

I entered it into a animation festival in the North of England called Animex and held by my University. It's getting pretty good and big, but unfortunately my entry wasn't chosen. I fully understand though, entries are taken from all over the globe, and one of them last year was Tim & Tom (which was quite incredible). Oh well, ONE: i should have entered more than one festival and TWO: i think the film has to have been finished in the year of entry to the festival, but i might not be right with that?! (it is like that with Animex though).

Thanks to everyone who downloaded my film and the ones who have commented on it here. I began to think that my decision to be an 3d artist may have been a bad choice (plenty of rejected applications), but after your very positive comments, i will continue to look for work and build my portfolio!

YAY


Oh and by the way, your talent as a filmmaker shows through. That is such a key thing for a 3D artist and I think it is far too overlooked as an attribute.

OK maybe not in the pipeline in a large production company where you are isolated to one job - well I have never done it but you know, read about it. :D But you get what I mean.

One thing I think you can't overlook is good filmmaking and editing techniques in putting together a reel. Shots are important. Not everything is a flying logo where it is primarily one camera move.

As far as projects go, my last film was a feature - not an anim - but a digital film. By the time I was done, I was through with it and with Hollywood and the whole works. I never wanted to look at a film again let alone my own piece of crud... so I know what you went through. It's just one of those things that comes with this work. The glamour kind of wares off after you have looked at your film for the hundredth time and notice you can't print this to tape either because of a sound glitch you never noticed or whatever.

I thought for sure I was going to completely loose it a couple of times when delivering to the distributor becase then I had to go back again and prepare music ans effects tracks. What nightmere!

I figure it is a good idea to do something I love because after a while I can grow to hate it, if that makes any sense.

So stick with it man, if you love the work, keep plugging away and work to get better with each project. :)

JadaFecT
09-01-2005, 06:44 PM
thats good. I like some of the textures you have used. It's the little things that make the storys 'work'

lardbros
09-02-2005, 06:54 AM
Surrealist... you have summed up the feeling very well with that last post. You hate it when you finish (although at the start i marvelled at every newly rendered shot, thinking "how did i do that?") but after a day or two i began to love it again, didn't take long at all!! :D

This forum is the best place to get all motivated again... i'll remember all of these comments for a long time, and always strive to do better.

Cheers JadaFecT, cool compliment. Nice to hear a comment on that specific area, it took some time to perfect the lighting and make it all visible but still dark. I reckon it's probably the lighting that helps the textures on their way, especially with my choice of such a contrasty environment.

Surrealist.
09-04-2005, 01:24 AM
Surrealist... you have summed up the feeling very well with that last post. You hate it when you finish (although at the start i marvelled at every newly rendered shot, thinking "how did i do that?") but after a day or two i began to love it again, didn't take long at all!! :D

This forum is the best place to get all motivated again... i'll remember all of these comments for a long time, and always strive to do better.



Well alright, I am truely glad you got over it good and fast. That's nice. Looking forward to seeing more of your work in the future.

ThriJ
09-07-2005, 01:34 PM
LOL

A few minutes in another world, I love shorts and this one is very good. Oddly enough I am working on an animation with a ahÖ similar theme. Anyway great atmosphere and I have found that if you donít look at your work for a few days months or with some things years you will always eventually see it through a fresh lens instead of your artist self condemning lens.


Itís a odd part of human perception.

I think this is in part why bad films etcÖ are made. Some people become so numb to what is good or bad they canít distinguish it anymore. I suppose that looking at the most inspirational and seeing the worst is one way to find your place and sometimes you just need someone elseís eyes to know, but hey you find out eventually when your lens clears. Like Surrealist says you have to keep creating and not let that ever stop you. I bet there is a lot of good work that could be made but never has been because the artist could never get past that state.

lardbros
09-10-2005, 05:46 PM
LOL

A few minutes in another world, I love shorts and this one is very good. Oddly enough I am working on an animation with a ahÖ similar theme. Anyway great atmosphere and I have found that if you donít look at your work for a few days months or with some things years you will always eventually see it through a fresh lens instead of your artist self condemning lens.


Itís a odd part of human perception.

I think this is in part why bad films etcÖ are made. Some people become so numb to what is good or bad they canít distinguish it anymore. I suppose that looking at the most inspirational and seeing the worst is one way to find your place and sometimes you just need someone elseís eyes to know, but hey you find out eventually when your lens clears. Like Surrealist says you have to keep creating and not let that ever stop you. I bet there is a lot of good work that could be made but never has been because the artist could never get past that state.

Thanks for your comments ThriJ. I am intrigued as to the short you are working on, looking forward to seeing it in the WIP section soon. Hopefully i will finally come up with another idea i'm keen on and create another short... it's tough creating a project that is so exciting that i don't get bored halfway through. Good luck with yours though! :thumbsup:

I always download other peoples short films, i have a massive collection of short animations, music videos and test animations just for inspiration. I will be adding your one to my collection when it's done!

ThriJ
09-18-2005, 06:50 PM
Thanks, well now I have your short downloaded to my short collection of shorts. 8~ :D

Well actually I already have a WIP thread made for the project. Bird Film Project (http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=38285)
I hope to be through within the next two months, but then again I said that three months ago. Itís one of those deals where there is always that other project you need to finish up first, and making a bit of cash seems to win out over creativity. Also I am struggling somewhat with the same thing that I said earlier as in finding the balance between perfection and having it finish sometime this decade.

Cesar Montero
09-19-2005, 02:40 AM
Nice short man!
I like the shot of the candle :)

lardbros
09-19-2005, 06:32 AM
Love your dove ThriJ, very nice indeed... and i really wanna see it moving!

Thanks Cesar, such a compliment from someone whose work i admire!!

Deep_Thought
09-21-2005, 07:51 AM
Bwaaaaahahaha, I laughed my arse off when I saw the conclusion to all that moaning and limping. Nice job! I just like it when films look like they take themselves totally serious, build up lots of tension and then unload with a giant laugh. Good job with Mr. Crapper here!
http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~andrasz/data/ugly_smilies/uglyhammer.gif

The shot I liked most was shortly before the end, when we see the feet of Mr. Crapper limping through the screen from left to right.

Keep up the good work man, all the technique in the world is nothing if you haven't got a story to tell.
This story cracked me up big time. http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~andrasz/data/ugly_smilies/uglylaugh.gif

lardbros
09-21-2005, 11:11 AM
Bwaaaaahahaha, I laughed my arse off when I saw the conclusion to all that moaning and limping. Nice job! I just like it when films look like they take themselves totally serious, build up lots of tension and then unload with a giant laugh. Good job with Mr. Crapper here!
http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~andrasz/data/ugly_smilies/uglyhammer.gif

The shot I liked most was shortly before the end, when we see the feet of Mr. Crapper limping through the screen from left to right.

Keep up the good work man, all the technique in the world is nothing if you haven't got a story to tell.
This story cracked me up big time. http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~andrasz/data/ugly_smilies/uglylaugh.gif

Yay... i made another person laugh! That's what i love about making your own film, you can alter peoples emotions! I'm SOOO glad you laughed, and enjoyed it, i'm well happy now. You've made my week with that post.

BIG THUMBS UP Deep_Thought :thumbsup:

I might save these replies to pick me up when i can't be bothered to finish a project!! :D