PDA

View Full Version : any siggraph impressions? post here!!!



archiea
08-03-2005, 07:44 PM
Either 9.0 related or otherwise...

DragonFist
08-04-2005, 08:51 PM
I printed up a copy of the exhibit pass and drove by before picking up the kids today. I took a look at LW9 and Marvin Miller gave me a hand showing some of the new features. Ngons were not in on the beta version I saw and only like half of the modeler tools were into layout yet; there several things that were in at the time.

One, the hardware shading was very, very cool. I could texture procedurals in realtime. I not even the wait you have from FPrime. I could see the textures animate in realtime as well.

The multi-shift is an added feature to smoothshift. You can repeatedly smoothshift and have a history that is much more than an undo list. You can add new shifts between others, save the whole thing, either in memory or to file and then reuse it on other polies. And the polies don't have to match the original polies.

The adaptive sub-patching was amazing. Think sort of like the displacement map without the limitations since it is based on camera distance and such.

Another thing I have to point out is that it performed really cleanly. I rendered an object with an F9 and it popped up in literally a fraction of a second (0.2 to be exact). It caught me off guard as I have rendered similar objects before and it wasn't slow (I have a amd64 3800+) but it was like a second. You know, time to watch it render. Here there was no time to watch, it was just done. F9 is practically realtime for small stuff and that has to add up to major time savings.

Edge tools. It is set up like points and polies in modeler. It is the third selection type. Took a sec to get used to hitting space more than once to switch but having that there is worth it. I just moved some things around selecting different edges and such. I was only there for about 45 min, but I like what I saw with it. I wish Ngons were in to play with but I can wait, I can tell it is well along as it stands.

A couple things that Marvin told me that interested me included the fact that as the renderer is now a seperate module, you will be able to render from Modeler. He also acknowledged the possibility of third party hooks for the renderer (note: He didn't directly say this. I brought it up and he acknowledged the possibility. I don't want to create a "but you promised" type situation here).

Anyhow, I have to say that just the hardware openGL and the render speed ups are going to greatly increase my own production. I am happy with just these things and can really see that the changes under the hood are truly the great thing that is happening here. You can feel the difference while working with it. It is just smoother in its operation and seeing it in its partially done stage allows me to see the more modular aspect of the engine. What is in is cleanly in. Nothing I played with had an under-contruction feel to it. What wasn't there wasn't there but what was actually was.

Hope this helps others get an idea of what we have.

Best,

Shawn "DragonFist" Smith :lightwave

Wickster
08-04-2005, 09:28 PM
I was there Wednesday from 10am-2pm. I gotta tell you, that openGL hardware shading was the deciding factor for me. Specially when compared to a rendered one. Having to see procedural textures in realtime and animated in realtime was just awesome. :thumbsup:

The camera tools was also pretty cool. Duece demoed a twisted building though he didn't even twist it, all it was, was the camera animated to go around the building and render one frame accounting all the animation the camera did. Its hard for me to explain but a render is worth a thousand words.

Another cool thing that maybe isn't LW9 related but cool anyways was Vue 5. The demo for that inconjunction with LW was awesome. Imagine creating eco-populated terrain for you LW jets to fly through in minutes. And too see a hypervoxel wave of water plow through a Vue jungle was just amazing.

I didn't see much modeler tools demo, well except for the edge selection and the tools that can take advantage of that. So on the bottom of modeler, instead of just seeing points and polygons, you now see points, polygons and edges.

I had to repeat the demo 3 times because of that distracting semi-naked chick on the Sony Imagworks booth posing for life drawing, which by the way was right beside the Newtek booth.

Overall LW9 will rock!!! :rock:

Earl
08-04-2005, 09:51 PM
Thanks for the impressions guys! Those accounts really substantiate the claims of the press releases. I'm quite pleased that edges were added as a third selection type at the bottom of Modeler. And pressing the space key three times to rotate between the modes is fine by me since I used to do that all the time when Volume selection was down there.

Man, it looks like I'm going to have to upgrade my video card now. That hardware OpenGL sounds astonishing.

gjjackson
08-04-2005, 09:57 PM
Watching NewtekTV right now and the camera functions in 9 are great.

Kuzey
08-04-2005, 10:08 PM
That sounds.....well..out of this world!!

Did anybody get a chance to see if Modeler and Layout were still separate :D :D

Kuzey

archiea
08-04-2005, 10:24 PM
What wasn't there wasn't there but what was actually was.




Ha! That should be a tag line for a product or something.....

Thank for the review!!!

DragonFist
08-05-2005, 12:24 AM
That sounds.....well..out of this world!!

Did anybody get a chance to see if Modeler and Layout were still separate :D :D

Kuzey

Yes, they are. However, the lines between them are becoming blurred. As it sits now, Layout doesn't have all the modeler tools moved over yet, but it clear they are being moved. I opened vertex paint in Layout. It looks to me that Modeler will always be Modeler but rendering and such will be doable from Modeler and Model tweaking will be doable in Layout. I could be wrong but the toolsets seem to be being seperated out as modules that can be called from either application. The modeler tools in Layout are currently set up as another menu in Layout along the top. It doesn't look like the entire Modeler application is being placed in Layout, you just have access to a bunch of the tools and plugins. I think fulltime Modeling is still going to be best done from Modeler because you have the full package available in easy to reach places. Even if ALL the tools are eventually moved to Layout, it is going to be a cluttered mess in there.

I think the work flow will still be do your modeling in Modeler (much easier now that you can do F9's straight from there) and then when you move to Layout for animation and such, if you want to tweak things, you don't have to go back to Modeler, just do it right there. Of course, there will be people that want to do it all in Layout and it seems that that will be possible at some point (how long will it take to move all the tools in stable way?) but I think the cleaner work flow will be as above. All the benefits we have had with them seperate without the headaches that resulted (****, I have to edit the weight map, back to Modeler; or I really need another wrinkle under this eye for the deform to work right, ugh, back to modeler). When we get LW9, it's going to be that once we are done with Modeling, we should have to jump back in forth to do the post modeling work.

Anyhow, I am making some assumptions here, but from what I saw, it looks like that is the way it is going. I, for one, am happy with it. I think there is going to be a bit of a runway for Layout to be able to completely replace Modeler for those that want that. I wouldn't expect that from 9.0. But I think will get there and Modeler will still be there as a the workroom. Someone referred to modeling in layout as building the props on the stage. Well, you can do that and if you need to you probably would. But usually, you would want to do it back at the workroom were you have all your tools along the wall neatly arranged for ease of use, not all thrown in a backpack or something. And somethings like tablesaws are hard to lug around. I think that is a good analogy. You are going to probably do most of you prop building in Modeler, but you'll have your bag of tools on the set in Layout just in case you need to throw something together or need to fix something. If that makes sense.

Best,

Shawn "DragonFist" Smith


Edit: Sorry, I probably went a little overboard on my answer there. A fair amount of it is my take on things as opposed to concrete facts; but I'll leave it as I think I am not far off the mark. The simple answer is "Yes, there are." :foreheads

mav3rick
08-05-2005, 12:39 AM
how about skelegons edit on the fly in layout?
any words on that?

DragonFist
08-05-2005, 12:49 AM
how about skelegons edit on the fly in layout?
any words on that?

Sorry, I didn't get play with that, so I couldn't tell ya. :bangwall:

Kuzey
08-05-2005, 06:37 PM
I could be wrong but the toolsets seem to be being seperated out as modules that can be called from either application.

It makes sense to have the Modeler toolset in an independent module like the render engine and still keep the apps separate. I think that's a great solution for both camps and the best thing is Lightwave still stays Lightwave.

:D

Thanks,

Kuzey

T-Light
08-06-2005, 12:56 AM
but you'll have your bag of tools on the set in Layout just in case you need to throw something together or need to fix something. If that makes sense. - DragonFist

Makes a lot of sense. :)

If there's one thing I find a real pain is going over and over a weight map in modeler only to try flexing bones in layout and discover I've wasted more time and the end results rubbish. Being able to weight map etc in modeler (If that's what we can indeed do - fingers crossed) will be a big help.

Looks like Newteks getting the balance right here.

DragonFist
08-06-2005, 01:43 AM
Indeed, that is exactly something that is in. Like I said, not all was moved over, but one thing I did was open vertex paint in Layout. That alone allows weight map painting in Layout. And I believe a lot more tools are going to be available to Layout.


Shawn "DragonFist" Smith