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View Full Version : 8.5 What does this mean?



wbotero
07-28-2005, 11:06 PM
New Multi Shift allows the user to do multiple shifts in a single edit with a history profile that can be saved and applied to other meshes.

It sounds like 3D studios Modefiers stack. Is it? Screen shot anyone?

Mylenium
07-28-2005, 11:33 PM
New Multi Shift allows the user to do multiple shifts in a single edit with a history profile that can be saved and applied to other meshes.

It sounds like 3D studios Modefiers stack. Is it? Screen shot anyone?

Nope, definitely not. Tools always can be interactively adjustable as long as they aren't "dropped". Look at Magic Bevel or Rope Editor - they, too, have some kind of "history" but only as long as the plugin is at work.

Mylenium

Aegis
07-29-2005, 01:49 AM
Sounds to me something like Bevel++ or VertiBevel's ability to save bevel profiles for later re-use...

Nemoid
07-29-2005, 02:21 AM
it seems like a smshift with an history inside, to edit commands and the possibility to select polygons on other objects and repeat the same commands (extrude, inset etc.)? :lwicon:

Carm3D
07-29-2005, 02:55 AM
I am so glad we got this feature instead of edge weights.

ACLOBO
07-29-2005, 03:55 AM
do I detect a note of sarcasm?

-Adrian

colkai
07-29-2005, 04:23 AM
do I detect a note of sarcasm?
Ya Think? :tongue:

Dodgy
07-29-2005, 04:28 AM
Now now, just because they only showed this feature doesn't mean they haven't got other things up their sleeves. I would say Siggraph is the place to see the big features...

hrgiger
07-29-2005, 04:41 AM
Please please whatever you do, don't put any kind of joint deformers in. Just because every other package has them, doesn't mean we need them...(Just trying a little reverse psychology).

colkai
07-29-2005, 04:49 AM
>Chuckle<
Sorry, couldn't resist, it was just begging for an "O'Niell" type comment that. ;)

Personally, I have got enough to worry about at the moment, as I have said in the past. We'll get what we get, when we get it, and it will be what it will be.

Do I expect Edge weights? no, not really the team have a huge job on their hands dealing with rewriting old code, would I like 'em - heck yeah! Do I hope that Newtek are gonna sneak in some killer work? You betcha.

Either way, the new dev team deserve much kudos and though it may seem otherwise lately, there are those of us out here who recognize the complexity of their task and their efforts so far. :lwicon:
Ahh, go on, I admit, I'm a fan boy ... :I_Love_Ne
(Had to find a reason to use this icon .. heck, whilst I'm at it, why not go for broke... :lightwave :p)

Carm3D
07-29-2005, 05:20 AM
But why put time and money into making a feature that nobody has asked for like a multi-shifter instead of a feature it so desperately needs? :thumbsdow

colkai
07-29-2005, 05:26 AM
Ahh, but herein lies the old problem.
We know Newtek watch the forums for feature requests, but how do we know what the other people Newtek are talking to want as an important feature?

I'm just wondering if the new feature isn't just so much a 'Vertibevel' clone as maybe something that reacts to normals of the selected group. So it's not such much a 'bevel' as the result of a bevel with tweaking. I could see how such a feature would speed up modelling in certain situations if it removed the need for tweaking the vertices once you'd beveled out a group of polys.

Slap some inter-activity on that and I could see myself wanting that quite a bit actually.
I guess we'll find out soon enough though. :)

nemac4
07-29-2005, 08:58 AM
I'd bet it is this:

http://www.davidikeda.com/supershift_contour_shift_and_inset.avi

anieves
07-29-2005, 09:13 AM
oh sh*t, here we go again. This tune is getting old. Why don't you people wait until siggraph? Maybe NT is incorporating edge weight maybe not for 8.5

To be honest that's a feature that you will probably will have to pay for in a bigger realease.

colkai
07-29-2005, 09:19 AM
oh sh*t, here we go again. This tune is getting old. Why don't you people wait until siggraph?
Err.. isn't that what I said?

We'll get what we get, when we get it, and it will be what it will be.
Anyhoo, like...whatever.... 8~

anieves
07-29-2005, 09:25 AM
Err.. isn't that what I said?

did you?

ah I just skip over your posts everytime ;)

Dodgy
07-29-2005, 09:47 AM
I'd bet it is this:

http://www.davidikeda.com/supershift_contour_shift_and_inset.avi


Nah, we've already got that... Though that one might consider overlapping points, which we don't have. Bevel ++ does though, I can heartily recommend it, you can even save the profile of the extrusion to a Preset for use later.

http://www.wagglydog.com/lw/bevelpp/

You'll probably want to wait till after sig though :)

Carm3D
07-29-2005, 12:26 PM
To be honest that's a feature that you will probably will have to pay for in a bigger realease.

If that's the case then the best new feature of Lightwave 8 was DFX+.

anieves
07-29-2005, 04:19 PM
:rolleyes:

WizCraker
07-29-2005, 04:25 PM
If that's the case then the best new feature of Lightwave 8 was DFX+.

DFX+ was a great bundle for the upgrade.

iaef
07-29-2005, 08:24 PM
If we keep searching for the best addon ... I guess the best upgrade LW got was the user who acquired it when we all bought it... :D

Seriously, I am just waiting also to see Siggraph announcements. On the other hand, I join those who proclaim DFX+ a great update. :agree:

NigelH
07-29-2005, 09:42 PM
Since we're reading tea leaves here, how about this one:


Dynamics now launch a control window that allows you to switch to other applications while calculating dynamics in LightWave.

Can't we do this already without a control window? Or am I misinterpreting what this 'feature' is all about?

Carm3D
07-29-2005, 11:45 PM
Right now if you attempt to multi-task during a dynamics calculation, Lightwave will appearantly lock up. It doesn't really lock up; the calculation will continue and when it's finished Lightwave will once again respond to mouse input, etc. With the 8.5 update calculations will take place in some kind of new panel which will not give the impression that Lightwave has frozen / crashed.

NigelH
07-30-2005, 12:12 AM
Well OK, that sounds useful, but more of a bug fix than a feature, don't you think?

Carm3D
07-30-2005, 12:43 AM
Precisely.

wacom
07-30-2005, 01:15 AM
I don't know, I payed $500 for a upgrade and got SSS, Sub-pixel displacement, edges with wieghts, nodal shaders, joint deformation, true scene interactive preview window (not quite as fast as Fprime though), better Open GL, DirectX, and CG with full support for viewing all map types including normal maps, a full history, vastly improved animation tools, improved UV mapping...oh and a bunch of stuff that was way too cool for me to even dream up...

Yeah- why me worry?

I guess I'm using 9 or something...

colkai
07-30-2005, 02:39 AM
did you?
ah I just skip over your posts everytime ;)
It's understandable...when you get to my age, you mumble a lot. :p ;)

cresshead
07-30-2005, 11:03 AM
hey wacom, you got your upgrade to autodesk 3dsmax 7.5 pretty cheap! 8~

Amadeus0
07-30-2005, 01:23 PM
I think wacom was talking about XSI...

cresshead
07-30-2005, 02:33 PM
yeah i know! :)

i just thought i'd put an alternative 'advert' in there!....
gotta say :lwicon: is supa dupa ice cool!..

last day for notts college today...govt tactics closed that outlet..so sudents will have to find alternative's in learning 3d....mind you lw is pretty slick learning curve...nice n gentle compared to the 'evil one'....the dark destroyer of dreams....x essive eye strain! :D

....chow! 8~

wacom
07-30-2005, 05:33 PM
Now if we just spend around 400-600 bucks and get point-oven with another app 90% of the features you're waiting for can be had. I don't see why people wait around for new features- you can still use LW, another app, and composit it all together and get some great stuff and for very little money. Larger studios do it ALL the time. Why not take advantage of current prices and do it too? Does PMG not look good?

Hey there is a big difference between what I'm looking into and what I'm using. I, being a LW'er first and formost can state that LW, for me, has a very logical work flow that is VERY fast. I am playing around with another tool, and I must say that if I didn't know how friendly LW was and only had 500 bucks I might pick a different app. The fact that LW has so many feature short commings, but that people still are able to produce some of the best work in it is a testimate to how easy and flexable it's basic work flow is. If and when LW intergrates those features listed above my eye might stop wondering...

Free render nodes don't hurt either...

And as Cresshead, I, and anyone else who is aquanted with another "more powerful" app can tell you that power comes with a price! I think the idea that Lightwave is like a well wieghted hammer, and some other tools are like a mutant surgeon's tool box is fairly correct. Sometimes your just make'n a house...and on those other times you're doing what feels like brain surgery.

Only a cave man uses a hammer for brain sugery, and an idiot surgeon's tools to build a house...

Which brings up another point for me- I hate it when people come from one app to another and get all bent out of shape that the other one doesn't do XYZ like their old one does. Most programs have their own logic and an old user base that likes/understands that logic and its power. It's not to say that diffrent applications can't take some of the ideas from others- but how they intergrate them into their work flow logic and user base is MORE important. I thought this was just an issue with the LW community, but I've seen it now in another application and so much of it comes from people not looking deeper into their application. For example- many applications have sub division surfaces, and nurbs, but the usefulness of those tools is dependent on how relevant they were made to the applicatins work flow. Otherwise it's just a feature and not a true tool!

Trying to make LW work like XSI, Maya, or Max would KILL power of LW for me.

OK...I'll stop for now...

Gui Lo
07-31-2005, 01:12 AM
Talking about other apps means nothing to me as I use LW exclusively to make my money. On projects ranging from tv commercials, Cgi elements in tv dramas, 3d for web, etc. Although I have seen other apps doing things LW supposedley cannot, I personally have never had a case where I cannot do something.

But this is about the 8.5 upgrade.
IMHO the dev team is made up of really hot programmers who come from the plug-in scene. They must have brought with them bits of code or ideas that can be made quickly into neat functions. I think some of that is what we are seing now. Of course there will be work on asked for functions and, obviously, the next big version of LW but these 8.x upgrades are some stuff in the heads of the dev team.
Why not?
Does it make LW worse?

I am a bit suprised the hardware rendering comes in the 8.5 upgrade and was kinda looking for that for LW9.

Looking forward to the Siggraph vids.

Gui Lo

colkai
07-31-2005, 03:56 AM
But this is about the 8.5 upgrade.
Yup - just so and as you say - the new team are made up of folks with a good reputation already so I certainly think a little optimism is allowed. :)


Of course there will be work on asked for functions and, obviously, the next big version of LW but these 8.x upgrades are some stuff in the heads of the dev team.
....
Looking forward to the Siggraph vids.
Likewise - and the ability to download them this time too (save upsetting the wife by being locked upstairs each evening :p)

parazis
07-31-2005, 03:59 AM
Exactly. Most of programmers should work on v9 development, I think. I treat 8.x upgrades as teasers in principle :neener:

Para
07-31-2005, 08:15 AM
Exactly. Most of programmers should work on v9 development, I think. I treat 8.x upgrades as teasers in principle :neener:

I think it's more like that the majority of coders are working on v9 and then there's a few code slaves who crunch and clean 8.x so that they can implement stuff from v9 code base to 8.x code base making the current product more appealing to the masses and that way securing the future for v9.

Nemoid
07-31-2005, 01:50 PM
And as Cresshead, I, and anyone else who is aquanted with another "more powerful" app can tell you that power comes with a price! I think the idea that Lightwave is like a well wieghted hammer, and some other tools are like a mutant surgeon's tool box is fairly correct. Sometimes your just make'n a house...and on those other times you're doing what feels like brain surgery.

Only a cave man uses a hammer for brain sugery, and an idiot surgeon's tools to build a house...

Which brings up another point for me- I hate it when people come from one app to another and get all bent out of shape that the other one doesn't do XYZ like their old one does. Most programs have their own logic and an old user base that likes/understands that logic and its power. It's not to say that diffrent applications can't take some of the ideas from others- but how they intergrate them into their work flow logic and user base is MORE important. I thought this was just an issue with the LW community, but I've seen it now in another application and so much of it comes from people not looking deeper into their application. For example- many applications have sub division surfaces, and nurbs, but the usefulness of those tools is dependent on how relevant they were made to the applicatins work flow. Otherwise it's just a feature and not a true tool!

Trying to make LW work like XSI, Maya, or Max would KILL power of LW for me.

OK...I'll stop for now...

U described very well Lw workflow and philosophy. i think no one here, wants to make Lw work like XSI, or Maya or any other app.

Lw has its own workflow, and its own philosophy, which is good, because in certain areas is the best one u can have. modeler is a really fast solution for every problem, even with no edges, ngons or edge weights, because these features aren't what really changes a good model from a bad one.
most f times they aren't supported from other apps, so that if you use egde weights in modo, for example, you'll have to freeze your mesh to use it in maya. i coud make several examples of all the advantahges u get in Lw from being easier and simplier in many cases.

in facts, when i talk of a lw integration IT'S NOT to completely overhaul Lw, but only to modernize it.
keep all the advantages, get rid of all things that can be an obstacle and make the app even easier than now.

lets also give Nt team the time to work to our app. i think we'll see excellent things. :thumbsup:

cgolchert
07-31-2005, 03:20 PM
Can't we do this already without a control window? Or am I misinterpreting what this 'feature' is all about?

I read that as the dynamics calculation gives you a stop button instead of picking up on you hitting the control key every time you switch over to your email program.

Chazz
07-31-2005, 07:53 PM
DFX+ was a great bundle for the upgrade.

Well, if you have a PC it was.

anieves
07-31-2005, 09:00 PM
most f times they aren't supported from other apps, so that if you use egde weights in modo, for example, you'll have to freeze your mesh to use it in maya.


I was with you until that comment... If LW had edge weigh support you would still have to freeze it to bring it to maya... :confused:

If LW had edge weight support it would be for LW's own benefit not for combination workflows right?

Karmacop
07-31-2005, 10:33 PM
I think what Nemoid was saying is that putting modo into a maya pipeline doesn't work that well because maya doesn't support all of modo's features. While using only a lightwave workflow means that every feature can be used. If that makes any sense ...

riki
07-31-2005, 11:31 PM
Presets would be nice.

anieves
08-01-2005, 06:11 AM
I think what Nemoid was saying is that putting modo into a maya pipeline doesn't work that well because maya doesn't support all of modo's features. While using only a lightwave workflow means that every feature can be used. If that makes any sense ...

ah ok, that makes sense. I see what he meant.

-

TSpyrison
08-01-2005, 08:32 AM
This is what I have to say to all the naysayers and doubters...


HA!! :lwicon:

http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/08-01-05e.html

NigelH
08-01-2005, 09:21 AM
This is what I have to say to all the naysayers and doubters...


HA!! :lwicon:

http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/08-01-05e.html


I think this is the link you're referring to:

http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/08-01-05a.html

Their links are totally screwed up.

And yes, it is quite an impressive list. :)