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View Full Version : High End algorithms etc. !!



LWesko
04-29-2003, 03:37 AM
I wonder why...

there is NOT a single 3d application that could produce the kind of effects/visualisations we REALLY need and what are every 3d app made for!! This makes me very angry.. :mad:

I could understand if the answer was: "Oh well, no one has been able to invent such superior algorithms yet.. so it can't be done.."

BUT.. fortunately that's not the case! :D

NEWTEK, I'm sure you have already all the information, but PLEEEEEASE try to implement these GREAT algorithms to produce REAL simulations/effects we all do NEED:

http://graphics.ucsd.edu/~henrik/papers/

check here also the animations:

http://graphics.ucsd.edu/~henrik/animations/

expecially the fire & smoke anims.. and subsurface scattering..
Ain't that we REALLY want? :D

DaveW
04-29-2003, 12:23 PM
There's some really cool stuff there but even if all that was added to LW, you'd still need a compositing app and a video/film editing app to do your effects.

Mylenium
04-29-2003, 12:56 PM
Well, as nice as it would be to have those things, a lot of it looks pretty theoretical/ experimental. And reading that most of these simulations were done on clusters/ super computers doesn't cheer me up for the most part. The best algorithms are useless if they are dead slow so any insights on how fast they actually are?

Mylenium

Matt
04-29-2003, 01:13 PM
I agree, they look very nice indeed (love the interior rendering - amazing) but unless I can render them in some sort of normal timeframe what's the point?

LW's radiosity at the moment isn't useable (IMO) for print images within 'real world' deadlines.

LWesko
04-29-2003, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by Mylenium
Well, as nice as it would be to have those things, a lot of it looks pretty theoretical/ experimental. And reading that most of these simulations were done on clusters/ super computers doesn't cheer me up for the most part. The best algorithms are useless if they are dead slow so any insights on how fast they actually are?

Mylenium

Yup. Infact I didn't read it so carefully.. IF it is really so slow to compute those effects to get it as real as in those animations we can probably forget it.. :(

Anyway, about needs of improvement.. I would appreciate very much if there were some options to the render methods as previously people had brought up.. For example other radiosity rendering methods would be VERY useful, but as an option, not replacement to the existing ones.. :D

I just LOVE Lightwave already just because there IS so many options to choose and do things in many ways and still achieve brilliant comparable results! It would be SO great if NEWTEK just integrated more plugins like for example Reelmotion.. (http://www.reelmotion.com)
Reelmotion is one brilliant plugin but a sad story.. I'm not sure if they even sell it anymore.. but definately they don't make any new versions that would be compatible with new version of Lightwave.. There is NO other way to do super realistic vehicle movement with very good simulation of real world cameramovements also.. It's a biggest disappointment I have ever experienced in the area of 3d. If NEWTEK would make a deal with this company (and I'm sure it would not be a big issue) we could have the ultimate tool/plugin for making ANY RIGID BODY dynamics simulations AND the most realistic vehicle simulations including airplanes and helicopters etc. :D

Maybe I'm asking too much but if there is a chance to get trough to NEWTEK with my thoughts and if THEY would think the best of their customers something might just happen.. Hope is the power!

3d ya!

harhar
04-29-2003, 01:57 PM
Worley Lab's G2 does incrediably fast subsurface scattering(well, they fake some of it to speed things up). And dynamic realities's Pyro render pretty good fire, smoke.

LWesko
04-29-2003, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by harhar
Worley Lab's G2 does incrediably fast subsurface scattering(well, they fake some of it to speed things up). And dynamic realities's Pyro render pretty good fire, smoke.

Yup. I know.. There are some very fine implementations of these effects/phenomenons but I was just hoping for a better and more precise simulations of fire & smoke effects actually.. Pyro is fine, but when you compare those example animations Pyro is not realistic enough.. Maybe it's just me who always want's something perfect.. :D But isn't it the right attitude when doing these virtual reality experiments? That's what this is all about or what do you think?

Usually the quality depends on how good your skills and visions are but in that point there must be killer tools that makes everything possible..

Sorry for the lenght of my replies.. :rolleyes:

cavalos
04-29-2003, 04:32 PM
I don't see any problems in having real world "simulation" (slower) algorithms BUT is important to have the option for faster and "faked ones" don't you think?

Best
Christian

harhar
04-29-2003, 05:47 PM
what's wrong with pyro? Looks pretty realistic to me.

Panikos
04-29-2003, 06:13 PM
Every now and then there are new needs and inventions, either after demand/concept by major production houses or just after extreme observation of light phenomena by everyone.

The other day I observed light dispersion passing through my hair when was out of focus, but I guess nobody needs such a thing now

This is part of the general endless battle between human and nature.

I am sure LW developers as well as developers of other similar aplications, have open eyes and ears of these new developments. Some of them are one or two generations ahead of the today CPU speeds, some of them are easy to adopt.

faulknermano
04-29-2003, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by Panikos
The other day I observed light dispersion passing through my hair when was out of focus, but I guess nobody needs such a thing now

you were looking at a mirror right?

Panikos
04-29-2003, 09:14 PM
Nope, the sun was opposite to me, my hair "was" long and pulled it in front of my eyes.

Pitty I had a haircut :mad:

faulknermano
04-30-2003, 02:30 AM
Originally posted by Panikos
Nope, the sun was opposite to me, my hair "was" long and pulled it in front of my eyes.

Pitty I had a haircut :mad:

ah! ok. cannot relate. been a skinhead for four years now. :D