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jaxtone
06-26-2005, 01:56 PM
I recently installed my LW 8.3 update and dont understand if the resolution are meant to be worse in the new version?

I add two pics to let you see...

jaxtone
06-26-2005, 01:58 PM
As I remember LW 7.5c did much better resolutions even in low res and no res modes. This is really really bad especially if looking at the numbers...

J

jaxtone
06-26-2005, 02:25 PM
Rendered with anti aliasing PLD35 and Classic and classic res filter???

I am now a minute from installing my old LW 7.5c cause this is under my customers level...

J

toby
06-26-2005, 04:04 PM
What's 'no-res mode'? Do you mean anti-aliasing?

I don't think PLD is any good for final renders. It takes longer for the same quality level as classic aa, and maximum quality PLD is barely as good as enhanced high and takes much longer.

I'm running both 7.5c and 8, and classic anti-aliasing, or no anti-aliasing, are rendering identically.

jaxtone
06-26-2005, 04:17 PM
Hi!

Seems like I have tried them all now... Classic and up to PLD 35... with different render setting scenarios... all seems much worse then in LW7.

Now I must admit that it doesnt seem to make no big difference when working with abstract fantasies and particles and blur... but in this case its all about deliver knife sharp text to my customer... and thats where LW 8.3 fails totally!

J

toby
06-26-2005, 07:44 PM
Try reducing the brightness of the white text before rendering.

If your text is too bright, it will no anti-alias as well - for example, this sky is rendered at 200% luminosity and then at 90%. Notice the lines in the window, they are smooth with the grey sky but jaggy with the bright sky.

When you have 200% white on black, the anti-aliasing will be about half-way inbetween, which is still 100% white, so you have no visible grey to smooth out the transition from white to black.

yazan
06-27-2005, 12:49 AM
just a little comment. setting luminosity at over 100% is what's causing the pixelation, this also happens with HDRI reflections and refractions as they can show higher than 100% brightness. The pixelation happens because we're saving it in RGB format which does not support ranges over that number, hense the pixelation. In Lightwave's FP viewer, check out the cursor on top of the bright pixels, if any of the values read over 100% then you might see pixelation especially when contrast is there. I agree with your earlier post and I find the classic modes to be much better. I wish they had informed us of what situations and settings are best for what. Did they?
Yazan

jaxtone
06-27-2005, 01:55 AM
Hi!

Toby... Seems like I learned a lesson here... thanks!

Yazan... I am both glad and dissapointed that some one else noticed that these things seldom occured in the older version of Lightwave. Not good at all that an update complicate the rendering process...

Last night I tried loads of sollutions and finally did like this. I limited the whiteness and set the diffuse level to 90% and also rendered the sequense with double print resolution. Now I am almost pleased but not with the render engine... that I experience as a sad version of an earlier great workflow.

J

yazan
06-27-2005, 02:17 AM
I understand your frustration but I have to say that when things get built (programs) they seem to be made to have as much control as possible. if you think about it, our lack of knowledge on these peramiters are our shortcomings when you add the hugely un explained options you get total confusion. in reality for example, the diffuse and reflection should add up to 100%. How many of actually do that? we render in higher than RGB values but we save them in jpg format. Things like this which don't make sense are a part of our everyday workflow. I have been really getting pissed off at certain programs (Hint: I'm using it) but I have come to realize that with a bit of organization of the workflow and the plugins, and building the library of presets I will also get better results. But still, I totally undersand your frustration. Its like, here's a bunch of options, try them out, see what works for you. Although I dislike this approach, its what these forums were/are all about, helping each other with our experiences. Oh by the way, if you still want to be using the higher than RGB values such HDRI use the HDRI exposure in the image editor processing tab, and adjust the illum. Also there is video legalize and exposure post prossing filters in the image processing tab. hope these give you some adjustments.
Yazan

jaxtone
06-27-2005, 03:24 AM
Hi!

Thanks for a very detailed and great answer... I believe you just described the situation 100 percent correct... something to think about when producing my content... unfortunally I didnt have time to lose with getting into new interface and rendering techniques at this moment since my deadline is to tight right now. But thanks again all in here that have offered their help...

J

toby
06-27-2005, 03:26 AM
just a little comment. setting luminosity at over 100% is what's causing the pixelation, this also happens with HDRI reflections and refractions as they can show higher than 100% brightness. The pixelation happens because we're saving it in RGB format which does not support ranges over that number, hense the pixelation. In Lightwave's FP viewer, check out the cursor on top of the bright pixels, if any of the values read over 100% then you might see pixelation especially when contrast is there. I agree with your earlier post and I find the classic modes to be much better. I wish they had informed us of what situations and settings are best for what. Did they?
Yazan

Exactly - and any combination that results in over 100% can do the same thing, like if you were to turn on luminosity or reflection while your diffuse was still at 100%.

But the importance of the high-bit-depth render pipeline is undeniable. Imagine LW's render was limited to a 32 bit depth - you have a shot in outer space where the camera pans past the sun, which is 100% white because that's the limit. When you render this with motion blur, your sun will fade to grey, because the blur is spreading that 255 white over a wide area. We couldn't have HDR or radiosity with the 32 bit-depth either.

The exact same thing would happen in LW7.5, the bit depth is the same as LW8.3. You'd have to go back to LW5.6 to get the 32-bit depth.

The only beneficial way of using PLD that I've heard of is for fast test-renders with 2 or 3 passes. I did some tests with it when it came out, I don't think I'll be using it for anything.

Dodgy
06-27-2005, 06:49 AM
PLD is sufficent if you're doing a lot of things, mostly animation. However, the old AA types are there too, and they give the same results as the 7.5 methods, they haven't been changed.

If you're using HDRI lighting, in the Post-processing panel there is a Limit Dynamic Range which will ensure any very bright pixels are clamped and therefore make the AA work for those pixels.