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Surrealist.
06-16-2005, 11:47 PM
Another great example as to why the maunal is as long as it is. Anyone who has read through the Modeler Modify tools will know what I am talking about. There are many other examples I am sure.

Now in defense of the modeler part at least if you look up any tool you get the info.

To quote Samual L. Jackson "I'm trying real hard...."

To learn this stuff. :D

operation
06-17-2005, 01:19 AM
yes, the manual is bad ( there is some mistakes and it's not complete ).

I hope that NT will spend more time to write a better manual ( maybe 2 manuals could be a good format):
Manual and Référence (as previous version) and maybe color screenshots for the pdf version ( I know it cost money to print in color).

And an other 3th book ( tutorial or training book) ! To explain some process, to help some people to start with :

Chapter 1: setup a cemar and light
.... 2: Simple keyframe animation
.............3 : shaders

Those "tutorials section" exist in other package ( Maya,Max,XSI...).


Nt: More you will help people to understand LW interface, more you will get users.

cheers.

Surrealist.
06-17-2005, 05:35 AM
( maybe 2 manuals could be a good format):
Manual and Référence (as previous version)


Yea I was thinking about that tonight. About how cool it was to have them separate like that. One to maticulously reference the controlls/features and another to cover it in a tutorial style.

I wasn't intending this to be a manual bashing and I am sure there have been already many threads on this. I just thought it was funny.

I think good things are on the horizon but you are absolutely right in pointing out that good documentation is key to a long term marketing stratedgy.

Wade
06-17-2005, 06:42 AM
Maybe this has something to do with it's dual use? As it is also in PDF formate and searchable.


??? :o

Chuck
06-17-2005, 07:04 AM
I'll move this discussion to the Documentation section.

Meantime, are you not aware that LightWave [8] has a tutorial manual? If youreceived the electronic upgrade you may not have gotten it, but full seats and upgrades with hardcopy manuals include it. If you got the electronic upgrade and want the printed manuals, those can be ordered separately.

Yes, there is redundancy in the Reference Manual, and that is in major part due to time constraints on editing material that had been prepared from the previous versions and purposed toward the online help system, where it seemed best to repeat all information relating to a tool, even the portions identical among several tools or options. A bit of that was eliminated for the print purposed version, but the majority remained. That issue as well as a more efficient layout in order to reduce the page count is being addressed for the next revision.

Chuck
06-17-2005, 07:09 AM
I'm puzzled about the request that the PDF use color screen shots. Both the lo-res version of the PDF reference manual and the hi-res version already do use color screenshots. The lo-res is intended to use with the program open, when you want to conserve RAM, but have an indexed and bookmarked reference available; the hi-res is not indexed or bookmarked, as it is intended for printing, and would allow a user to print a full color manual if they wish.

mattclary
06-17-2005, 07:55 AM
Chuck, is the tutorial manual avaialable in electronic format?

BeeVee
06-17-2005, 08:08 AM
Nope, and not available to customers outside the US.

B

Exper
06-17-2005, 09:20 AM
... good peace for everyone who pre-ordered the electronic LW 8 ...
(sorry, I feel a little sullen today... but the scar still bleeds) :D

Chuck
06-17-2005, 09:26 AM
Nope, and not available to customers outside the US.

B

It is not available electronically, but is available outside the US in those regions where the international distributors have elected to make it available.

joeldberry
06-17-2005, 10:24 AM
The Getting Started Guide is basically the first half of Lightwave 3D 8 Essentials by Timothy Albee, which can be purchased through local (U.S.) bookstores, Amazon.com, etc.

I am not sure about overseas purchases.

It is a very good book, and it is nice to see Newtek packaging such a quality "tutorial" guide with Lightwave 3D 8.

Paul_Boland
06-17-2005, 12:11 PM
Just curious, how much of the printed Lightwave 8 manual is now in error? See, I'm totally new to Lightwave 8 and I'm currently reading through the manual, learning the software as I go. I started reading in the Modeller section first (not sure why Layout is first in the manual :confused: ), and have read through some 300+ pages of it. I would hate to think that I am wasting my time reading it. Surely the whole manual can't be in error, how else is a new comer suppose to learn Lightwave.

mattclary
06-17-2005, 12:22 PM
how much of the printed Lightwave 8 manual is now in error?

No more than any other written document of it's size. It's written by humans, so it's not perfect, but for the most part it's accurate enough. You aren't going to learn LightWave by reading the manual anyway, you need to be using LightWave, with the manual as research material.

Paul_Boland
06-17-2005, 01:37 PM
No more than any other written document of it's size. It's written by humans, so it's not perfect, but for the most part it's accurate enough. You aren't going to learn LightWave by reading the manual anyway, you need to be using LightWave, with the manual as research material.

Hi Mattclary.

Thanks for info. I do work with Lightwave as I read the manual. What I usually do is ready a few pages in bed at night then the following day, take the manual to the computer and explore how to use the tool/function in question. Nice to know the manual is not a total loss.

Surrealist.
06-17-2005, 01:50 PM
Maybe this has something to do with it's dual use? As it is also in PDF formate and searchable.


??? :o

Yea absolutely I was thinking of that too, the way it is formatted. Good point.

operation
06-17-2005, 04:25 PM
an other point is the "framing" of the manual (sorry I don't know the good word, I will try to explain ... )

If you look to a page , you will see the text is 'framed' in the middle of the paper with a lot of space around ( too much "white-space" between the text and the side of the paper). It seems in a small box in middle of the page.
And the size of the font is too big and some time too much words are used to explain a simple fonction (if you can explain in 1 line, do it ... few words are enough).

how you could organize the text on the page (" page-setting" ) and use perfectly A4 format: save the space and use a smaller font.


and maybe an HTML manual with a research fonction (index) would be perfect and very helpfull to find a tool in different chapter.





mattclary"You aren't going to learn LightWave by reading the manual anyway"

That's why so many people asking on the forum "how do you do ....?" because they never read the manual !!! Most of the time, answers are in the manual.
You have to learn manual ! how can you understand: how the extra raytrace optimisation is working ? how to render particle with hypervoxel plugin, how to lock vertex with motion designer ?

Yes you can use a software without reading a manual .. but you will always use the software at 50% of his power.
I am using Lw since amiga version and I am still reading the manual and still learning because everytime there is something new to discover.


cheers.

gjjackson
06-20-2005, 07:45 PM
Nope, and not available to customers outside the US.

B

Are you referring to the 'Getting Started Guide'.

Chuck
06-21-2005, 06:48 AM
Ben was referring to the "Getting Started Guide"; and I've just been informed that this is no longer shipping. There are plans in the works for providing training material with the package, however, but no details at this time on what that will be.