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kuroyume0161
04-26-2003, 05:24 PM
SkyGen comes and installs with LW 7.5, but when I run it, it does a bunch of stuff alluding to registering it. Register, in this case, means paying for it. Is this how usually works? Is it a trial edition included with LW?

Seems unusual that one must pay $50 more after paying ~$1500 for LW7.5 to get rid of nags in nagware.

Should I be expecting any other LW-installed plugins to start nagging?

Kuroyume

TyVole
04-27-2003, 08:20 AM
You can use SkyTracer2 instead.

Rei
04-27-2003, 08:42 AM
Yep, a few other things like SasLight are demos, the full plugins are worth around $300 anyways.

kuroyume0161
04-27-2003, 09:52 AM
I sorta figured that Sasquatch "Lite" was a demo of the full thing. Doesn't nag does it? ;0) Personally, I hate nagware - sorry to the creator of the SkyGen plugin. Give me a lite version, a partially crippled version, a once-off "try before u buy", but don't nag me on a continual basis. I spend enough money on software and upgrades (thousands a year) not to be nagged.

If I decide that I need it, I'll gladly pay for it, but won't be using it until then.

Kuroyume

pauland
04-27-2003, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by kuroyume0161
I sorta figured that Sasquatch "Lite" was a demo of the full thing. Doesn't nag does it? ;0)
Sasquatch Lite is hardly a demo. It doesn't nag and you can do loads of stuff with it. You have three choices:

1: Don't use it if it upsets you,
2: Use it for less demanding stuff and enjoy,
3: If you really need it pay out the $500 everyone else who really needed it did.


Originally posted by kuroyume0161
Personally, I hate nagware - sorry to the creator of the SkyGen plugin. Give me a lite version, a partially crippled version, a once-off "try before u buy", but don't nag me on a continual basis. I spend enough money on software and upgrades (thousands a year) not to be nagged.

If I decide that I need it, I'll gladly pay for it, but won't be using it until then.

Kuroyume
Skygen is pretty damn cheap. there's already an alternative with the product, and you already know about the nagware demo. Having tried the nagware demo you are in a position to decide if you wan't to buy. If you don't, then stop using it and nagging is something that you needent worry about.

Software developers deserve support for the time and energy they spend developing these things.

Some people always want things for nothing and then complain about what they get.

BTW Ekki, make it nag a bit more.. ;-)

Paul

kuroyume0161
04-27-2003, 04:46 PM
As I said, pauland, I pay for my software (and plugins). But I dislike nagware very much. In the past, I have opted for alternatives or nothing at all when faced with it - again, that's my prerogative. Skygen is not mentioned in the LW7 manual (I search the PDF file as well as skimming the print version). At least an indication somewhere would be nicer than nagging.

Skygen is inexpensive, but all of this adds up quickly. I've just dumped about $2000 into Cinema4D, $1500 in LW7.5, $120 into a LW plugin, and trying my damndest to scrape money together to get Maya Complete (UL is way beyond my budget at this time). Think - that's just 3D CG software. I have other expensives and other software on which to spend money.

Of course software developers deserve financial support, but that does not mean that the only way to get it is by using nagware. Nagware is like popup windows or spam, not as bad, but pretty close. If you want my business, don't nag me. I don't want something for nothing - I just don't want nagging.

BTW Ekki, make it nag more and I'll spend my cash elsewhere... ;0P

Kuroyume

pauland
04-27-2003, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by kuroyume0161
Skygen is not mentioned in the LW7 manual (I search the PDF file as well as skimming the print version). At least an indication somewhere would be nicer than nagging.
Since Skygen isn't part of the lightwave product as such, you couldn't expect them to mention it. To have skygen on board you'd have to have installed it explicitly as part of Ekki's plugpak.


Originally posted by kuroyume0161
Skygen is inexpensive, but all of this adds up quickly. I've just dumped about $2000 into Cinema4D, $1500 in LW7.5, $120 into a LW plugin, and trying my damndest to scrape money together to get Maya Complete (UL is way beyond my budget at this time). Think - that's just 3D CG software. I have other expensives and other software on which to spend money.

So, you've spent $2,000 on software on two differrrent packages, now your looking to spend a similar amount on maya complete and your complaining that buying $50 plugin (of which Skygen is only a part) is all adding up. Doesn't sound like a very structured approach that you have.


Originally posted by kuroyume0161
Of course software developers deserve financial support, but that does not mean that the only way to get it is by using nagware. Nagware is like popup windows or spam, not as bad, but pretty close. If you want my business, don't nag me. I don't want something for nothing - I just don't want nagging.

Well, you can't seem to remember installing skygen because you seem to think it's part of lightwave, yet you berate the developer for giving you a reminder that you're using software you haven't paid for. Nagware is nothing like spam. Spam is when you get stuff you didn't ask for. Nagware is where you get stuff you were told about before you installed it. Remove the demo and no more nagging.


Originally posted by kuroyume0161
BTW Ekki, make it nag more and I'll spend my cash elsewhere... ;0P

Kuroyume
Not much of a threat, since you've complained about buying $50 software and look set to put out big bucks on Maya complete.

Paul

kuroyume0161
04-27-2003, 05:51 PM
Sure it is. I installed LightWave and there is SkyGen. I didn't install anything but LightWave (just reinstalled my entire system last weekend, so I'm damned sure).

You're being rather self-righteous for someone who doesn't have the facts correct. SkyGen installs with LightWave. See "Inside LightWave 7" page 295 for a specific reference to it (which is how I stumbled upon it in the first place). It is to be found in the Generic plugin list.

It's not the $50 for a *single* plugin. It's $50 here, $100 there, and before you know it, I don't have enough to buy Maya Complete.

But that wasn't my point. This plugin was installed BY DEFAULT with LightWave and I have to be submitted to nagware. If I had foreknowledge or a choice (there was no choice and, as stated, no information about it the LightWave manual - there is information about Sasquatch, though, which is also a plugin requiring purchase to get full support), I wouldn't have installed it. It was installed without my knowledge or consent.

Stop patronizing me. My complaint isn't about $50, it's about nagware. If Maya PLE nagged, I'd reconsider purchasing it. But it doesn't. There are better ways to "prompt" someone to purchase and register a demo or lite version of software/plugins than nagging.

I've been using computers since 1985, so don't treat me like some whining baby. Nagware sucks (and many others agree). Why do you think that it is hard to find anymore? Because people, like me, refused to purchase software that nagged and found alternatives that didn't.

Buy me, buy me, buy me, buy me, buy me.

Nagging enough yet?

Kuroyume

kuroyume0161
04-27-2003, 06:17 PM
For your edification:

http://aroundcny.com/technofile/texts/bit062997.html

http://www.donglefree.com/infoworld2.htm

http://www.leftjustified.com/leftjust/cmn/shareware.html

(Someone who at leasts justifies and excuses their use of it while trying to be as unobstructive as possible in its use)

See, I'm not alone. There are many, many, many computer users who dislike, despise, and hate nagware/crippleware/spyware. Not because they're dishonest, but because they're HONEST. It's annoying and, given nagware's alternative name - guiltware, implies dishonesty on the user's part from the start. I'll admit that of these, spyware is the winner in being the worst. If spyware ever made it onto my system (and it can be installed sereptitiously from other installs), I'd sue - simple as that.

Give me restricted or time-out demos or death! (to paraphrase Patrick Henry)

Kuroyume

pauland
04-27-2003, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by kuroyume0161
Sure it is. I installed LightWave and there is SkyGen. I didn't install anything but LightWave (just reinstalled my entire system last weekend, so I'm damned sure).

You're being rather self-righteous for someone who doesn't have the facts correct. SkyGen installs with LightWave. See "Inside LightWave 7" page 295 for a specific reference to it (which is how I stumbled upon it in the first place). It is to be found in the Generic plugin list.
I think you'll find that lightwave comes with:
SkyTracer 2.0: Includes completely new, streamlined user interface. Incorporates VIPER and Preset shelf. Utilizes “SunSpot” control allowing users to enter specific time, date and global position to get universally accurate sun positions



Originally posted by kuroyume0161
But that wasn't my point. This plugin was installed BY DEFAULT with LightWave and I have to be submitted to nagware. If I had foreknowledge or a choice (there was no choice and, as stated, no information about it the LightWave manual - there is information about Sasquatch, though, which is also a plugin requiring purchase to get full support), I wouldn't have installed it. It was installed without my knowledge or consent.
I wonder how many others would agree that skygen is installed by default. I think it must be news to Ekki.



Originally posted by kuroyume0161
I've been using computers since 1985, so don't treat me like some whining baby.
I'm not responsible for the content of your posts.

You are welcome to your views on nagware. It's unfortunate that you take that view to such an extreme that you'll ignore a product regardless of it's worth and great price point. That's your loss.

Paul

UnCommonGrafx
04-27-2003, 08:46 PM
Truly Kuroyume,
This can't be your box as it truly doesn't seem that you know what you are talking about. Or someone else is installing them on your box and making you look foolish.

:D

Skygen is something you have to find at Eki's site, download, and install.
It does NOT install with lw

Nagware, as you say this is the focus, is to make sure that people who use it for free don't forget that's the case.

SKYTRACER is the built in sky maker.

This is funny...

kuroyume0161
04-27-2003, 09:20 PM
You're both full of crap. I have a registered, licensed, dongled version of LightWave 7.5 purchased in an unopened box - id est NEW. I have only installed the 7.5b update after installing LW. I have no other plugins (not even my $120 one) even installed yet. No other software related to LW is installed. "Inside LightWave 7" has a CD, but I copied the contents to another drive myself, so there is absolutely no possible way it could install anything into LW without my knowledge (I am a computer builder, programmer, can install and configure servers and OSs, so don't give me any lip about what I KNOW and don't know).

Here is a screen shot of my Windows LightWave Install CD- looks like SkyGen to me in the LScripts\Utility\Generic.

As for nagware, each to his own. The Plugpak may be great, but I don't like nagware. See, the problem is that when I pay, especially this much, for software, I want all of the functionality working. If there are "demo" add-ons, there should be mention of them and possibly a choice as to whether to install or not. SkyGen is not mentioned nor is there a choice.

You can now procede to eat your hats, because it's on the LW install and was installed during LW install. If you still don't believe me, I'll verify it with NewTek and have an official answer (in my favor, obviously) posted here.

Kuroyume

JamesCurtis
04-27-2003, 10:20 PM
I have to agree - sort of!! I just got LW7.5 the other day from Safe Harbor Software and when I installed LW it did indeed install Skygen on my system. This is the Skygen program alone and NOT the full plugpak available from Eki. I downloaded and installed it [the Plugpak] later.

Quite frankly, I don't mind the nags that much as it is one way to try out the plugin set.

pauland
04-28-2003, 03:31 AM
Originally posted by kuroyume0161
You're both full of crap.
Well, I guess we all are, to a more or less extent.


Here is a screen shot of my Windows LightWave Install CD- looks like SkyGen to me in the LScripts\Utility\Generic.

Well, much to my amazement, I dug out my install CD and you are right.


See, the problem is that when I pay, especially this much, for software, I want all of the functionality working. If there are "demo" add-ons, there should be mention of them and possibly a choice as to whether to install or not. SkyGen is not mentioned nor is there a choice.

Well, I can now see where you are coming from. I agree that it should be clear whether software is present as a demo or not. Skygen isn't present in any of the descriptions of the LW package and I've never considered it to be 'official' in any way. Just a great 3rd party product. Newteks equivalent is Skytracer and skygen rather overlaps in that functionality. All of the advertised functionality of LW is present, Skygen isn't mentioned anywhere as part of the supported product. For the money you've paid, LW is very much worth it. You haven't lost out in any way. Yes, I agree Skygen should be described clearly as a demo for which you have not paid.


You can now procede to eat your hats, because it's on the LW install and was installed during LW install. If you still don't believe me, I'll verify it with NewTek and have an official answer (in my favor, obviously) posted here.

Kuroyume
I don't recall offering to eat any hats, but I'm willing to admit that in this case, regarding the Skygen install I was clearly wrong, so I'm sorry for giving you such a hard time over it.

Now, proceed over to where that skygen.p file is located and delete it.

Paul

kevman3d
04-28-2003, 03:53 AM
Narf! Narf!

I can't believe how crazy everyones getting in this thread - It makes for a great read when you're bored! :) Anyway, I do feel, having demo'd and trialled all of Ekki's stuff, and also being in Ekki's position as developer that I need to mention a few things about this NagWare.

For a start - remember that SkyGen is FULLY FUNCTIONAL software - And once you've run SkyGen, it produces a STANDARD LIGHTWAVE SCENE FILE - ie. You don't *need* to run Skygen to edit the settings of the sky later on!

That's something people really don't appreciate about all of Ekki's tools - His scripts 'simplify' setting up more complex systems in a scene (like sky, lighting, etc) - You're not stuck with any kind of propriatory file format that you need his scripts to use every time you render your scene - Sure, You get nagged ONCE, but after that you don't even need to run Skygen ever again unless you're building a whole new scene from scratch!

Why nag? Well, think of it - if it was a quick click past the 'remember to register' screen, you'd probably not bother since it wasn't a hassle for you (Afterall, why pay $50 to remove a simple 'click' from fully functional software?)

To finish up - If you really don't like having this piece of nagware in your LW system, you can safely delete the file from the LScript folder without breaking LightWave. :D

UnCommonGrafx
04-28-2003, 06:30 AM
Well, poop.

Looks like I'm on your side, Kuroyume, as it should have no nag within a paid for program. That has to be the most IRRITATING of things: purchase a $1000 program only to have a 'demo' level piece of software installed. Much better to have them as added value pieces that need to be loaded afterward.

As I purchased the plugpak, I never saw such a thing.
Perhaps Eki'll come by and speak to this...

Delete that puppy. Then go get the full set of tools Eki offers. :D
Sorry about the hard time. Seems I'm on your side afterall...

Halsu
05-16-2003, 07:58 AM
Sorry for the delay with replying to this thread... but i have good news for you guys.

LightWave 7.5c includes a fully functional, no-nags version of the script. As an added bonus, the script automaticly extraxcts a few presets too.

More presets can be downloaded for free from my web site:

PlugPak web site (http://www.kolumbus.fi/erkki.halkka/plugpak/index.html)

Go to SkyGen page, and a new link called prests will appear at the second row, top of the frame...

here's the direct link to the download:

SkyGen 2 presets (http://users.pandora.be/Lightwaverz/SkyGen_Presets.ZIP)

ursa
05-16-2003, 10:53 AM
thanks Eki ,and please ignore those of us, who apparently don't appreciate your efforts and the contributions you have made to our community. I for one applaud you.
ursa

Rei
05-16-2003, 01:37 PM
Halsu, can you run that by me again?

We get a free copy of SkyGen with c?

colkai
05-16-2003, 01:46 PM
Just scanned my Lw plugins dir...
Lscripts\Utility\Generic\skygen.lsc 409K dated 11/05/03 ..like 5 days ago - The Registered plugpak version 'SkyGen.lsc' (note the case) is 142k with a date of 27/04/03

So yup! - Skygen IS in the LW7.5C release

But guys, really, just buy plugpak & modpak. As a hobbyist I'm very tight with my cash, but Eki is "SliderGod" - his plugins are fast becoming essential. Heck, his Citygen is worth the cost alone.

Go Eki, Go Eki ... :D

TerryFord
05-16-2003, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by Halsu
... As an added bonus, the script automaticly extraxcts a few presets too...


Will it work with just the default Layout startup scene (I'm trying to test it); Plugin runs, opens viper and the preset window, but the preset window is just a blank "workspace" one. I've added the downloadable presets but they're not showing up either. Should they go somewhere other than the default "..\programs\presets" directory?

Is it just me, or is the install broken (I just upgraded from 7.5b to 7.5c)


Regards,
Terry

Rei
05-16-2003, 01:58 PM
WAHOO, umm I intend to get the pack later, but I have not much money at the moment (or ability with english!)

WizCraker
05-16-2003, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by TerryFord
Will it work with just the default Layout startup scene (I'm trying to test it); Plugin runs, opens viper and the preset window, but the preset window is just a blank "workspace" one. I've added the downloadable presets but they're not showing up either. Should they go somewhere other than the default "..\programs\presets" directory?

Is it just me, or is the install broken (I just upgraded from 7.5b to 7.5c)


Regards,
Terry

I don't think it is just you. I'm having the same problem with the presets. I put them exactly where they say they should go In Lightwave 7.5 this is usually
Programs/Presets/EnvironmentHandler/Textured Environment/. But still nothing, it even does not show up the normal presets anymore.

TerryFord
05-16-2003, 03:05 PM
mmmkay... YMMV...

Seem that the Skygen presets get placed in
..\Presets\EnvironmentHandler\Textured Environment

but that Layout looks for them in
..\Presets\EnvironmentHandler\LW_TextureEnvironmen t

I moved the SkyGen folders to the above directory and now I can access them, but in order to "wake up" the presets window I have to add a temporary environment texture. (only when using the SkyGen script to add LW_TextureEnvironment)

Nice sky effects, worth a little faffing about...


Regards,
Terry

WizCraker
05-16-2003, 03:52 PM
Terry,

Thanks, that worked for me. I only get the Skygen2 Day presets, do you get anything of the others?

TerryFord
05-16-2003, 04:59 PM
Yes, I can access them all, from the SkyGen_Presets.zip Eki posted a link to; SkyGen Day, SkyGen Legacy, SkyGen Night, SkyGen Space and Studio, the latter being cool chrome reflection environments. If you have these folders where Skygen2 Day is (the 7.5c included presets) you should be seeing them as preset libraries in Layout.

Regards,
Terry

WizCraker
05-16-2003, 07:48 PM
Yeah I downloaded the preset pak from Eki's site. Strangely though the Skygen Day library is the only one that shows up. Even though the other folders are in the LW_TextureEnvironment directory.