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Borosai
06-07-2005, 08:33 PM
Ok, here's the deal. I am having really bad performance when using LW 8.3. Whenever I use Modeler or Layout with a poly count above 70k, my display gets laggy to really laggy when trying to move around the screen with the camera or perspective view, and in modeler when I try to move around (pan, rotate, etc.).

The biggest issue is I just built this computer, so this is really unacceptable, and I have been searching for a solution all over the place, and can't find a thing. So here I am, hoping that someone on here has experience with my hardware and can point me in the right direction. Below I have listed the possible problems:

1) GPU - I have a PNY Nvidia Quadro FX 1300 running two monitors. I have the 71.89 drivers installed (I previously used the 71.84 and had the same problem). This was the first thing that came to mind, which shocked me because this is supposed to be a good card. So, I tried changing different driver setting, LW display options, and I even disabled one monitor, and none of it made a difference. This is why I don't really think its the GPU anymore, but it could be the drivers.

2) Motherboard - I have an ASUS K8N-DL. Relatively new...no BIOS update available yet. Using the nForce4 Pro chipset (I think that's it) with the 6.53 drivers. This could be a problem...new product, maybe a few problems left that need to be resolved. Anyway, does anybody have this board? I guess it could require a BIOS update, nForce driver update...I have no clue.

3) CPUs - I have two AMD Opteron 242s. Unfortunately, I went cheap and got weak procs to save money. Although they work well together while rendering, on their own, they aren't very powerful. I have noticed this when applying filters in Photoshop and other instances, but I can live with that. Now, if this is the cause of the laggy performance, I would upgrade to something like 248s and sell these to somebody looking to build a server. Anybody have experience with these CPUs?

I think that's it...I don't know what else it could be. If I could get some feedback from people using some of this hardware/drivers without a problem, then I could eliminate those, and hopefully find the culprit. I really need to get this fixed because 70k poly limit before laggy performance is too low...I was hoping for at least 500k and up.

I am hoping for replies (fingers crossed) :)

Speedmonk42
06-07-2005, 09:58 PM
I could be on crack, cause maybe it was there and I didn't see it.

Did you buy all this and stick 128MB's of RAM in it? (My sarcastic way of asking how much RAM is in it).

Borosai
06-08-2005, 01:57 AM
I could be on crack, cause maybe it was there and I didn't see it.

Did you buy all this and stick 128MB's of RAM in it? (My sarcastic way of asking how much RAM is in it).

LOL ;)

No sir, at the moment I have 4GB of RAM (4x1GB), although the 2GB on CPU1 show up as single channel 64bit, while the 2GB on CPU2 show up as dual channel 128bit. And, in Windows, only 3GB show up (possibly something to do with that single/dual channel architecture? I haven't bothered looking it up).

Borosai
06-08-2005, 05:59 PM
I know I can't be the only person with these specific parts...

Anybody??? :(

mattclary
06-09-2005, 05:48 AM
Do you have a lot of sub-d surfaces?

guardonduty
06-09-2005, 06:26 AM
TRy this. Get two cheap video cards. One AGP the other PCI and try those. USe these instaed of the PNY. Remove the PNY temporarily. IFyou have better performance this will direct you to what is wrong. I have a pentium 3 desktop 550mhz and ONLY experience SLIGHT slowness when I import from Zbrush(because of the high poly count). Buy here

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Category/category_tlc.asp?CatId=28

jacross
06-09-2005, 02:53 PM
I have a similar setup, in fact i just upgraded from 2gb to 4gb. I would definately check on why one cpu is only accessing memory in single channel mode while the other is dual. I've put together some systems with ASUS boards recently and to run in dual channel on the side that has 4 DIMM slots the memory should be installed in every other slot (if only using 2 slots). So for example of 1, 2, 3, and 4 DIMM slots, 1 and 3 should be populated. This could be leading to some performance degredation. Also, ASUS has the 1003 bios out for that board, do you have that bios installed?, if not, you should update it. I have only a pair of 244's (I'm cheap too :) ), and I've moved around scenes with over 250K poly's without any issues. Your system shouldn't have a problem at the 70K level.

Borosai
06-09-2005, 06:24 PM
I have a similar setup, in fact i just upgraded from 2gb to 4gb. I would definately check on why one cpu is only accessing memory in single channel mode while the other is dual. I've put together some systems with ASUS boards recently and to run in dual channel on the side that has 4 DIMM slots the memory should be installed in every other slot (if only using 2 slots). So for example of 1, 2, 3, and 4 DIMM slots, 1 and 3 should be populated. This could be leading to some performance degredation. Also, ASUS has the 1003 bios out for that board, do you have that bios installed?, if not, you should update it. I have only a pair of 244's (I'm cheap too :) ), and I've moved around scenes with over 250K poly's without any issues. Your system shouldn't have a problem at the 70K level.

You know, I had wondered about the memory placement. In the instructions, it said that if you only use 2 DIMMS, to place them in the A1 and A2 slots. When I added the second pair, I didn't bother adjusting them, so I guess that's something I should do. So, in other words, I probably don't have them correctly placed. Do you think this could be responsible for the performance prob? Well, I will open the case up and fix that...I hope that's it.

As far as the BIOS goes, I don't think they have supplied an update yet, so I should have the 1003 bios (I recall seeing that in the ASUSUpdate program).

And with your setup, how many polys can you work with without any issues? Such as rotating the view? And do all 4GB show up in Windows? I only get 3GB...hmmmm.

UPDATE: Well, I adjusted the memory, and now they both show up as dual-channel, so thank you very much. However, I still have the problem :confused: And I do in fact have the 1003 bios. Soooooooooo, I must continue searching for an answer.

Anybody have the Quadro FX 1300??? That would be very useful.

guardonduty
06-10-2005, 07:06 AM
Dude: As you know alot of times fixing a hardware problem is sometimes a matter of "elimination"

TRy this. Get two cheap video cards. One AGP the other PCI and try those. USe these instaed of the PNY. Remove the PNY temporarily. IFyou have better performance this will direct you to what is wrong. I have a pentium 3 desktop 550mhz and ONLY experience SLIGHT slowness when I import from Zbrush(because of the high poly count). Buy here

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...lc.asp?CatId=28

jacross
06-10-2005, 10:16 AM
I agree with guardonduty, the next step is a process of elimination. If you can, try to get your hands on another PCI-E vid card and take out your PNY. If you see a performance improvement, there's your issue.

Since your bios is up to date, you might want to check for newer chipset and video drivers. The board is still pretty new, and the nForce4 Pro chipset is pretty new as well, so it could just be a matter of "ironing out the bugs". Hopefully ASUS will be more responsive than MSI was with my last dual proc Opteron motherboard.

Also, regarding only seeing 3GB (should be between 3GB and 3.5GB), that's fairly normal if you have 4GB since the system "reserves" 512MB - 1GB for the PCI bus. It sucks when you have to pay for the memory, but that's how it works.

Lastly, I can move around 250K poly's in real-time without any hiccups. I haven't tried to push more than ~300K, but even at that level it's very responsive.

Borosai
06-10-2005, 11:29 AM
Although trying out different cards sounds like a good idea, I am seriously not going to spend more money on cards just to "test" it out. I spent enough on the 1300, and would only buy another card if I knew this card was to blame. So, what I am truly hoping for is that someone else has this card. A much more economical method of elimination, although it may take a bit longer to find out. But thanks for the suggestion. ;)

GwynneR
06-10-2005, 12:16 PM
Also, regarding only seeing 3GB (should be between 3GB and 3.5GB), that's fairly normal if you have 4GB since the system "reserves" 512MB - 1GB for the PCI bus. It sucks when you have to pay for the memory, but that's how it works.

You should be able to sort that out in the BIOS. I have a Tyan K8WE which has a Promise BIOS. The relevant setting (for my BIOS) is under the Hammer configuration screen and is called "Memhole mapping". It has two options, hardware and software. If set to Hardware, the BIOS will steal 1gb, if set to software, it doesn't and windows reports the full 4gb as being present.

Gwynne

Chuck
06-10-2005, 03:02 PM
Moved to proper forum...

Borosai
06-12-2005, 04:21 PM
TTT

Still looking for anything... :)

lots
06-15-2005, 02:34 PM
TRy this. Get two cheap video cards. One AGP the other PCI and try those. USe these instaed of the PNY. Remove the PNY temporarily. IFyou have better performance this will direct you to what is wrong. I have a pentium 3 desktop 550mhz and ONLY experience SLIGHT slowness when I import from Zbrush(because of the high poly count). Buy here

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Category/category_tlc.asp?CatId=28

Nforce 4 Pro boards do not have AGP.

As for poor performance, LW has never really taken advantage of the pro level cards' features. So all the money spent on the quadro could have been better spent on a high end gaming card. The difference? The high end game cards generally have the same hardware as the high end quadros, the only thing they lack are the drivers. That being said, in raw performance numbers, a Geforce 6800GT or Ultra will have higher numbers than the Quadro 1300. If we look at just the raw performance the chips can handle. The nice trick is in the drivers, which most 3D apps will take advantage of. Quadro drivers are more specialized, and optimized for specific applications. And thus you get better performance.

Lightwave lacks this ability.

Borosai
06-15-2005, 09:04 PM
Nforce 4 Pro boards do not have AGP.

As for poor performance, LW has never really taken advantage of the pro level cards' features. So all the money spent on the quadro could have been better spent on a high end gaming card. The difference? The high end game cards generally have the same hardware as the high end quadros, the only thing they lack are the drivers. That being said, in raw performance numbers, a Geforce 6800GT or Ultra will have higher numbers than the Quadro 1300. If we look at just the raw performance the chips can handle. The nice trick is in the drivers, which most 3D apps will take advantage of. Quadro drivers are more specialized, and optimized for specific applications. And thus you get better performance.

Lightwave lacks this ability.



Thanks for the info...I ran across a thread that dealt with OpenGL performance in LW, and how other ppl are having the same problem as I am, but they don't all have Quadros. So, as far as I can tell, although my hardware isn't the best and wouldn't be blazing fast regardless of LWs programming, it appears that nothing is actually wrong with my computer (which is good news)...it's just LW. However, I end up with the same crappy performance, which is really dissapointing. And you are right about the video card...I was probably better off with a good gaming card, but it's too late for that...I'm not spending anymore money on it...and hopefully there is another solution, like maybe an update (although unlikely if it hasn't happened yet).

mattclary
06-16-2005, 05:49 AM
Supposedly they have been working on OpenGL, for which release is purely speculation on my part, but I'm guessing 9.0

Borosai
06-16-2005, 12:16 PM
Well, I just hope they offer a free update for LW 8.* because I just upgraded. Actually, I was happy with 7.5, and ONLY upgraded so I can get the 64bit upgrade later on. It would really be a shame to have to upgrade again just to get good OGL performance.