View Full Version : i want true edges and gizmos...

joe szabo
04-25-2003, 06:11 PM
all the main apps have gizmos and edges to work with..
but lw does not..
as i have just made the jump from max 5 to lw..i realy am missing my transform gizmo..
we have it in layout why not modeller..
it makes life so much easyer and faster to work with..
as i like to work in the perspec view only..haveing a transform gizmo
just makes modelling a joy...
also i would love to be able to select edges...mirai..max..maya...nendo...xsi....houdini. .they all have edges that you can select and work with..
it gives the user a lot more power being able to selevt a edge and work with it..i see people making plugs that kind of act like the max/mirai edge tools but there having to work around the problem..and it just not the same selecting the points at eather end of a edge..as a edge selection...can we please have edges in the future...
and dont forgrt the gizmo..
i mean just a transform gizmo..but a rotate and scale would be even better...
but id be happy with just a transform gizmo...
come on lw catch up with all these other apps...
lw im lovin it..
just these problems that let down your modeller....i can model so fast in max..using ture poly object edge tools and gizmos..but im gona stick with lw even though im realy slow with it as i know lw is better in the long run..
thanks newtek....

04-25-2003, 07:10 PM
nah, LW doesn't need gizmos.

joe szabo
04-25-2003, 07:30 PM
i can see you have never used them..next your gona say
use your ctrl button arnt you :)...na..ill have gizmos anyday..
i find it realy hard to model with out it....
layout has them already so why not in modeller...
how do you go down moving your points one at a time..
transforming some in x and some y and some z all the time not moving your view point..and know there going were you want them..ill tell you how..with a transform gizmo :)

joe szabo
04-25-2003, 07:31 PM

04-25-2003, 07:52 PM
lightwave allow your mouse to snap to grids when moving vertices. I surely has never felt the need of gizmo. And I do use maya, so I have used modeling app with gizmo. And it's bad when you select 200 points and you have 200 gizmos show up on your screen you don't know which is which.

joe szabo
04-25-2003, 09:29 PM
i use max aswell..and there is only one gizmo...if i wanted to have 2oo points selected id put them in a selections set..and if i wanted to move 200 together id use soft selection or a cluster..but i was just meaning that moving one point after another there is only one gizmo on screne..i select my point, transform..then its were i want it ,i then select my next point..and move it were i want it..so iv only ever got 1 point selected..meaning one gizmo on screen,,well i guess its what your realy used to..im realy used to max modelling paradigim..iv been using max for 3 years so im kinda stuck in my ways..but saying that iv swaped to lightwave....and 3 weeks down the road im still with lw. usually fell back to max by now..iv tried maya ple and fell back to max..trie xsi le and fell back to max..btw i work with max...but i use lw at home and im still using it....some of the best 3d iv seen is done with lw...and i love the look of its renderer...

04-25-2003, 10:15 PM
Sounds like the Rove tool

joe szabo
04-25-2003, 10:51 PM
yea..i found the rove tool the other day ..its kind of like what im after but not quite interactive enough..to much clicking involved. The trouble with rove is that it dont apear were the selected vert is..so i could be in a pers view select my point then hit the rove key click were i want my rove to work from..so it looks like it spot on my vert but if i rotate the view port you see that its not on my vert at all its miles away..
all i want is the same thing thats in layout..select a point and theres your gizmo ready to help you move your point.....
thanks anyway..for posting your pic...

04-26-2003, 10:02 PM
I've used tons of apps with gizmos and such, and like what was said before, if I select a ton of verts I don't want a bazzillion gizmos.

A gizmo really isn't needed. You can see the object you want to move right? You can also see where you want it to go right? Ta-da. No gizmo needed to guide you.

how do you go down moving your points one at a time?I usually select them, then hit "t" to move 'em. When they get to where I want them, I usually stop moving the mouse.

joe szabo
04-27-2003, 02:42 PM
well if you have used tons of apps with gizmos you would no that you dont have a bazillion gizmos in the view port......most work by using the avarage normals of the selection..so if i select 100 points i get 1 gizmo in the center of my selection..god knows what program you have been using that put up a million gizmos on screen..sounds like the programmer fault ....4 of the best poly modeller s out there have gizmos..max...mirai..sxi..maya..so are you saying there wrong and your right..id say lw needs gizmos..their there for a reason..to help you..if you dont like them swich them of..but i least give us the option....

04-27-2003, 03:10 PM
Lightwave was hailed as the best poly modeler there is. And no one has ever complained about the lack of gizmo. I wouldn't call max a good poly modeler, and it is the app I was talking about where you select a lot of vertices it shows a lot of gizmos. The grid in viewpoint is good enough to help me accurately move vertices.

Tom Speed
04-27-2003, 03:24 PM

Aint you guys forgetting the Drag Tool? (Ctrl + T)

It's 'uber powerful' :) Get the numeric panel up and experiment with the various move drag/move modes.

and it just not the same selecting the points at eather end of a edge..as a edge selection

Is it really that much harder to select 2 points than it is selecting an edge?


joe szabo
04-27-2003, 04:40 PM
im not gona get into a fight about whos the best...but i will say im talking max 5 not max 3..max is one hell of a great poly modeller....it now has true poly object all the tools scripters are trying to write for lw..check flay for the david ikeda tools..all copies from max 5....and max only ever shows 1 gizmo in the view port..so get your facts straight..i will not reply anymore to this thread i was asking newtek for gizmo..not wanting to get into a fight...btw can i see some of your models that you have made with the use of lws tools set...

heres mine all made with max's..and will soon have lw stuff on there to.

04-27-2003, 05:04 PM
Max only changed their gizmo since version 5. So I was not mistaken. It's still terrible compare to maya's gizmo though. All of max's tools were copied from Maya.

04-27-2003, 05:07 PM
how would gizmos work for mouse pivots? I vote no gizmoz


04-27-2003, 07:36 PM
Yeah, I find that odd about Max... no mouse pivots.

04-27-2003, 09:08 PM
I think instead of gizmos on the faces you should see an axis somewhere in the averaged selection. So if you select 1 or 100 points, ploy or whatever you adjust the one axis.

Only problem with the rove tool is that it doesn't move in the direction of the local axis instead it uses the world axis. So unless your model is a cube it sort of falls short as a modelling aid.

joe szabo
04-27-2003, 09:10 PM
see those verts selected 1 gizmo..see how easy it is to move points about with a gizmo..:D
its also easyer to rotate and scale..i under stand when you are set it your way with a program you dont like it changed..but its alway good to offer a option..like i said if you dont want it switch it off...simple
hell of a lot easyer than it curently is is lw..i realy do wish lw had a gizmo..also you set up your pivot in max with modify tab..affect pivot and set your pivot were you want it..
joe out...

04-27-2003, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by joe szabo
..also you set up your pivot in max with modify tab..affect pivot and set your pivot were you want it..
joe out... Lamont in...

Again, gizmo bad, not really needed. Visual fluff.

jin choung
04-27-2003, 09:28 PM
hey joe,

i don't think that your request is unreasonable at all. gizmos are indeed the more refined method for manipulation and allows you to work almost as easily in perspective views as in orthographic ones.

it is not an accident that they included it in layout after all.

alas, near cosmetic things like that may need to be sacrificed for more "core" improvements. yup, newtek doesn't charge that much and they probably don't make that much and so we gotta live with some rougher living conditions.

besides, i think that most lwers may be used to a more rough and ready way of working anyway.

yup, most of us do indeed work a lot in orthographic views....

i agree that having real gizmos (especially for uv projections... the texture guide is less than ideal) as well as real edges and such would indeed be a big plus.

but having said that, i still think that lw's modeler still kicks max and maya's *** in pure modeling speed. i admit completely that it's less than elegant these days but it's still the fastest work flow in polygon modeling imo. i used max and use maya daily at work now but i still end up modeling / texturing everything in lw (my copy that i bring from home no less) and then exporting to maya.

and oddly enough, it was used exclusively to model the exteriors of all the ships in the star trek movie (i personally would have thought that such shapes would have been easier to deal with in nurbs)....


joe szabo
04-27-2003, 09:32 PM
well said matey...
obtw on my last post this gif should of been with it but it was not there,,stupid me....

testy.gif (http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/sup/2003/04/27-500146.gif)

of corse it will be jerky untill it loads..i thinks its about 400kb..

04-28-2003, 12:32 AM
Hi there,

I have to say that for modeling gizmos are more or less useless. Especially in case of LW since in modeler there is nor difference between world and local coordinates.

To TomSpeed:

Yes, there is a big difference in edges vs. points. Even on the simple level of selecting things, edges can greatly improve workflow. This is a common method in Maya. You select edges and then convert you selection to adjacent polys or points. It is much simpler than having to select tons of points manually. And don't forget about the advantages of native edges for many other things.


jin choung
04-28-2003, 01:52 AM
modeling gizmos assist tremendously in the ability to model primarily in a perspective view.

again, for most of us lwers, i would wager that this is a completely alien concept. but a lot people who come from other software often like to model primarily in a perspective view.

yup, it's not the way i work either but it would be nice if a software allows you to work the way you want instead of mandating a method....


04-28-2003, 01:07 PM
lightwave modeler is great. maybe the best in the industry.But there are two general things missing:


sorry but this is not only my opinion.Many peoples in the buisness love it, but for only this reason they stay on other aplications like max and maya.For lightwavers this is not a problem but for people who wants to move to lightwave is a big problem.

by my previous request in the old board the good people from LW team explain me the differences based in the lightwave core, between edges, gismos and the sublevels of modeling etc....
And they ignite a light in my heart, a light of hope:))))

But we are waiting for version 8.Waiting and hoping......

:) :) :)

04-29-2003, 02:52 AM
I would never use any other modeler than LW, even the other offers thousands of gizmos, and edge oprations.

In LW it is solved, by Dstorm edgetool, David Ikeda`s excellent Powertools.

Anyway. I would welcom local coordinates. There is no more frustrating, when you model sg, place it, rotate it, and you realize, that it must be longer along it`s LOCAL Z axis. I think it would be a great thing, if each layer would ah its own local axis, and an icon or gizmo would show what is the curretn axis