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RedBull
05-14-2005, 04:56 PM
I noticed the SDK is making a real fuss on mailing lists....

But from what i read the promised SDK enhancements to fog, and volumetrics?
have not been implemented or i do not see them listed anywhere, like they are in the press release?

Anybody know what has happened?

This is my third post on the subject and nobody is answering!
Was it a deliberate lie, like the mists are saying?
If so, that's disappointing.


Seems NT are being a bit quiet!

Hoopti
05-15-2005, 03:56 PM
I don't believe that that Newtek would intentionally leave out an improvement, but I think there intentions are (and I''m not speaking for them):

1. Bug fixes
2. SDK improvements

I think in this version, what you're seeing is primarily bug fixes, hence the "no charge" release. I've never met a software company that says "We're defintely going to be including this in the next release" especially when it's not a full upgrade but just an incremental upgrade.

Having said that, I've put in a few things in the volumetric side that I'd love to see. Are they job critical, nope not really. Would they speed up my workflow? Yep, but again, not either mission critical or enough to drive me away from LW as my primary program.

Just an opinion.

Hoop

UnCommonGrafx
05-15-2005, 04:30 PM
From what it seems, there's like one person that has torch and pitchfork in hand...

I don't believe anyone outside of the One has been so vociferous insisting on being reassured; when I see Worley, et al, make 'sky falling' assertions, I'll be a bit more concerned.

I'll care even more, in general, around SIGGRAPH time...

Hoopti
05-15-2005, 11:13 PM
Found this on another thread that may help explain Newtek's position.


As I understand it, the ball would not actually be back in Mr. Worley's court quite yet. While there are some SDK changes in this round relative to volumetrics and fog that provide some access, there are still some of Mr. Worley's (and other 3rd parties) feature requests that we need to implement before the ball is actually on his side of the net again with regard to what he would like to implement in FPrime. Those will be in a future update.
__________________
Chuck Baker -- NewTek, Inc.
Senior Director of Corporate Communications
http://www.newtek.com

Hope that helps explain what's going on.

Hoop

mattclary
05-16-2005, 06:11 AM
It takes time, be patient.

Chuck
05-16-2005, 07:54 AM
I noticed the SDK is making a real fuss on mailing lists....

But from what i read the promised SDK enhancements to fog, and volumetrics?
have not been implemented or i do not see them listed anywhere, like they are in the press release?

Anybody know what has happened?

This is my third post on the subject and nobody is answering!
Was it a deliberate lie, like the mists are saying?
If so, that's disappointing.


Seems NT are being a bit quiet!

Since you are the one making the fuss it would be surprising if you hadn't noticed it, Scott. We've already stated that the comments in the 8.3 announcement press release were certainly not a deliberate lie, like you are saying, and that your accusations that we would engage in such behavior are both false and an irresponsible way to behave, so when you say that we are being quiet on the matter you are misrepresenting the facts, just as you are when you characterize the matter as a deliberate lie.

Aside from your tendency to engage in character attacks as opposed to just asking a perfectly legitimate question in a civil manner, your point that there seems to be a discrepancy between our SDK information in the PR and the final SDK notes in the 8.3 readme is well taken, and we're looking into that and will provide updated information just as soon as we have everything clarified.

RedBull
05-17-2005, 02:22 AM
Aside from your tendency to engage in character attacks as opposed to just asking a perfectly legitimate question in a civil manner, your point that there seems to be a discrepancy between our SDK information in the PR and the final SDK notes in the 8.3 readme is well taken, and we're looking into that and will provide updated information just as soon as we have everything clarified.

Chuck, i never called you a liar. I simply asked if the statement in the press release was a lie? Big differences in posing a question and making a statement.

Anyway, I appreciate and i am impressed with the way NT did fix the problem
quickly. I also apoligised for my own remarks several times,
as they were over the top, but they were not personal attacks.

And i did raise several good points, all which i seem to of been spot on!
And were ignored, until Kurtis's announcment about the 8.3 mistakes.

There were three seperate occassions, where statements that were misleading, and than i was accused of being the bad guy. For asking for clarification.
I hold no ill feeling, when mistakes are made, and even respect when they are acknowledged and fixed, as they were in this case.

I have no doubt if it had been the old Dev team, we would be waiting until
8.5 for any SDK updates... I'm also aware of how hard it is to enable volumetrics,
and data sharing from NT's POV.

NT made mistakes, I made a mistake in my approcach to their mistake....
Regardless... Two mistakes made a better 8.3 release.

People are even reporting better FPRIME speed with the newer update..
Hooray for everybody!!!

Chuck
05-17-2005, 07:23 AM
Chuck, i never called you a liar. I simply asked if the statement in the press release was a lie? Big differences in posing a question and making a statement.

Please get it through your head that whenever you call something a lie you are calling someone a liar. And the fact is that in your messages you offered your statement that this was a lie in multiple instances. In this the case the entire team at NewTek involved in creating the press release, which included members of marketing and of development, are who you slurred when you made the statement or "asked the question".

If you honestly don't know the difference between "lie" and the words which would have been appropriate, such as "mistake," "error," or "discrepency," then please spend some serious time with the dictionary until you do.


Anyway, I appreciate and i am impressed with the way NT did fix the problem
quickly. I also apoligised for my own remarks several times,
as they were over the top, but they were not personal attacks.


Until you understand that you were making personal attacks, you will no doubt continue to repeat them. If you've made any apologies, I've missed them. This post is as close as you've come, and you clearly don't understand the serious nature of what you did.


And i did raise several good points, all which i seem to of been spot on!
And were ignored, until Kurtis's announcment about the 8.3 mistakes.

The issue regarding the volumetrics changes in the SDK and the press release had already been raised internally and was being worked on. And if the matter had been being ignored, Kurtis' would never have issued a statement - again, the effort of both the marketing and the development staff were involved in getting these changes squared away and the new version of the update released.


There were three seperate occassions, where statements that were misleading, and than i was accused of being the bad guy. For asking for clarification.

No one is ever accused of being a bad guy for asking for clarification, it happens all the time and no one gets upset about it - we just provide clarifications. You, however, didn't just ask for clarification - you made accusations that there was deliberate intent to deceive.


I hold no ill feeling, when mistakes are made, and even respect when they are acknowledged and fixed, as they were in this case.

After you slander a group of people you have no ill feeling? Hmmm.

Well, if I ever see any sign that you've come to the point of acknowledging your mistakes in this situation and fixing them, meaning in particular that you would ask if something were an error or mistake rather terming it "a lie" when there seems to be a discrepency, then certainly that would gain my respect.


I have no doubt if it had been the old Dev team, we would be waiting until
8.5 for any SDK updates... I'm also aware of how hard it is to enable volumetrics,
and data sharing from NT's POV.

NT made mistakes, I made a mistake in my approcach to their mistake....
Regardless... Two mistakes made a better 8.3 release.

Well, no. Again, it just sounds like you wish to excuse and continue your behavior, and your behavior did not contribute in any way to a proper resolution.


People are even reporting better FPRIME speed with the newer update..
Hooray for everybody!!!