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tektonik
05-09-2005, 09:15 AM
i am really impressed by the new fprime! especially the low-ram targa
idea!

but on my current project... (a city in china) i rely heavily on
happy-digital HD instance...

can we have ANY hints from worley (or newtek) as to the feasability of
rendering volumetrics inside frpime ?

either :

1- yes there is a future possibilty
or
2- no no-future my friend forget fprime for cityscapes

please answer... as my workflow is changing to accomodate the chinese
appetite for mega construction jobs :)

a+

Dodgy
05-09-2005, 10:47 AM
No chance for the immediate future I'm afraid... You'll have to do them as a separate pass...

hrgiger
05-09-2005, 03:19 PM
Well, accoring to recent news put out by Newtek, they updated the SDK to allow third party plug-in developers access to volumetrics so I think it's very possible. So I think the ball is back in Worley's court.

tektonik
05-09-2005, 09:12 PM
ho how i wish tou were right mister GIGER

i would like some kind of heads-up from newtek (i am not wishing for anything newswise from worleylabs... they are sealed... i mean man 1 year with no upgrade and no news!)

combining hd instance anf fprime would be some MAJOR jump for our platform!

Dodgy
05-10-2005, 08:45 AM
Although there were additions to the SDK, I'm given to understand these won't enable volumetrics in fprime as yet. This is only what I heard from someone involved, so you'll have to wait a little longer yet.

Chuck
05-10-2005, 09:02 AM
Well, accoring to recent news put out by Newtek, they updated the SDK to allow third party plug-in developers access to volumetrics so I think it's very possible. So I think the ball is back in Worley's court.

As I understand it, the ball would not actually be back in Mr. Worley's court quite yet. While there are some SDK changes in this round relative to volumetrics and fog that provide some access, there are still some of Mr. Worley's (and other 3rd parties) feature requests that we need to implement before the ball is actually on his side of the net again with regard to what he would like to implement in FPrime. Those will be in a future update.

hrgiger
05-10-2005, 11:22 AM
Good to know Chuck, thanks for clearing that up.

Captain Obvious
05-10-2005, 12:03 PM
As I understand it, the ball would not actually be back in Mr. Worley's court quite yet. While there are some SDK changes in this round relative to volumetrics and fog that provide some access, there are still some of Mr. Worley's (and other 3rd parties) feature requests that we need to implement before the ball is actually on his side of the net again with regard to what he would like to implement in FPrime. Those will be in a future update.
I would just like to say that I really like the fact that you're implementing the improvements to the SDK incrementally instead of the usual approach of promising a big upgrade that will solve all the problems, but will probably never be released.

Earl
05-10-2005, 12:20 PM
Thanks Chuck! It's so nice to have an honest response from a company. Newtek really stands out in this regard.

mav3rick
05-13-2005, 03:12 AM
chuck nice news.. cant wait to see ball on the other side of field!:)

RedBull
05-14-2005, 09:06 PM
As I understand it, the ball would not actually be back in Mr. Worley's court quite yet. While there are some SDK changes in this round relative to volumetrics and fog that provide some access, there are still some of Mr. Worley's (and other 3rd parties) feature requests that we need to implement before the ball is actually on his side of the net again with regard to what he would like to implement in FPrime. Those will be in a future update.


As i understand it, from the press release, it was due in 8.3...
Now you say we have some changes to fog and volumetrics


Where are these changes listed in the 8.3 Docs, or on the 8.3 D/L page..
No mention of fog or volumetrics.

Strange? Perhaps the mailing lists got it correct after all?

hrgiger
05-14-2005, 10:58 PM
RedBull,

The changes in question to the SDK are mentioned in this press release:

http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/04-18-05f.html

"This change, among others, is also included in the LightWave SDK, which will benefit third party developers by giving access to volumetrics and fog for their plug-ins. "

I thought those changes were supposed to be in 8.3 as well but Chuck did say that info before the release date is subject to change.

Karmacop
05-14-2005, 11:24 PM
Or maybe they just haven't finished the docs yet redbull :rolleyes:

Newtek haven't lied.

RedBull
05-15-2005, 02:06 AM
RedBull,

The changes in question to the SDK are mentioned in this press release:

http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/04-18-05f.html

"This change, among others, is also included in the LightWave SDK, which will benefit third party developers by giving access to volumetrics and fog for their plug-ins. "

I thought those changes were supposed to be in 8.3 as well but Chuck did say that info before the release date is subject to change.

Thanks HRGiger.....

So the press release was incorrect? Not the impression given by NT on the mailing lists. And as quoted from Chuck's post above.....

He says not all the changes were made but. Quote: Chuck: "While there are some SDK changes in this round relative to volumetrics and fog that provide some access.

So we won't be using FPRIME, but where are these other fog and volumetric changes he mentions? As he i said the updates are not listed in the 8.3 D/L page. (like several others) nor are they mentioned in the SDK Docs...

Karmacop: If it were just the docs needed updating, where are the affected
.h and .c files. And why were they undocumented? and what changes were made? Is there an addendum to the updates i have missed?

So Chuck could you please clarify the above statements you made?

Were any actual changes made to this area of the SDK ?
or are we waiting for the next release?

Thanks!

Karmacop
05-15-2005, 04:02 AM
I'm saying maybe they have updated the sdk, but they haven't put the updated source and docs out for it yet.

There's no proof that the sdk has or hasn't been updated yet, so how about instead of writing several messages on the forum you send a nice and polite email to chuck.

RedBull
05-15-2005, 06:09 AM
I'm saying maybe they have updated the sdk, but they haven't put the updated source and docs out for it yet.

There's no proof that the sdk has or hasn't been updated yet, so how about instead of writing several messages on the forum you send a nice and polite email to chuck.

Huh? I don't understand your point (do you have one?
The SDK was updated, Of course it has been updated,
just not with some of the above mentioned items.
Have you actually used 8.3?

I would just like to know if Chuck could provide a little bit more info
on what he said in the statement to clarify things.

Am i not allowed to ask a simple question?
People seem to be very touchy on this subject.

Karmacop
05-15-2005, 06:56 AM
I think people are touchy because questions about the sdk have been "abusive".

If you want an answer just email chuck nicely and he might give you an answer, arguing on here and the mailing lists wont.

What I'm saying is that Lightwave has been updated to allow this new functionality in plugins, but the docs and source code on how to do it have not yet been made avaliable. So either wait for them to become avaliable, or email chuck and ask when they'll be avaliable.

RedBull
05-15-2005, 08:51 AM
I think people are touchy because questions about the sdk have been "abusive".

If you want an answer just email chuck nicely and he might give you an answer, arguing on here and the mailing lists wont.

What I'm saying is that Lightwave has been updated to allow this new functionality in plugins, but the docs and source code on how to do it have not yet been made avaliable. So either wait for them to become avaliable, or email chuck and ask when they'll be avaliable.

Okay, that is not what has been written. But that does help. Thanks.

As for Emailing Chuck, i'm sure he does not need every person with a LW
question personally E-mailing him. I guess that is what these LW forums are for.

The original poster, asked a similar question. I'm just not smart enough
to understand what that means.

But thanks for setting me straight... I think

Karmacop
05-15-2005, 09:10 AM
The original poster asked if the SDK changes to 8.3 would allow fprime to work with volumetrics, and the answer is no.

RedBull
05-15-2005, 10:45 PM
The original poster asked if the SDK changes to 8.3 would allow fprime to work with volumetrics, and the answer is no.

No Chuck's answer quoted below mentioned their were *SOME* changes made, not enough for FPRIME but they don't seem to be listed anywhere?

Nobody seems to be able to tell me (or anybody) what *SOME* changes mean? And where can i find information on what *SOME* changes including the readme, or SDK docs. Is that really hard to understand?

Am i wrong for asking a straightforward question.
I'm currently studying C++ and using the SDK for my school project.
This really is confusing the issue more.

I do not see why in several replies, nobody has been able to help.
I guess No changes were made to the SDK....
The people here seem very defensive and unhelpful.

Forget i asked.

Thanks.





Originally Posted by Chuck
As I understand it, the ball would not actually be back in Mr. Worley's court quite yet. While there are some SDK changes in this round relative to volumetrics and fog that provide some access, there are still some of Mr. Worley's (and other 3rd parties) feature requests that we need to implement before the ball is actually on his side of the net again with regard to what he would like to implement in FPrime. Those will be in a future update.

hrgiger
05-15-2005, 11:06 PM
Surely there must be like a million projects you can do with the SDK that dont' involve some aspect of the SDK which may or may not be available yet.

Karmacop
05-16-2005, 12:17 AM
Ok, here is my view of the situation.

In 8.3, Newtek have basically added some get methods to the volumetric data. However, the documentation and source for this changes has not been released yet.

So in the mean time, if you want this information, email chuck or deuce about it and maybe they'll give you prerelease docs or tell you when these docs will be out. Posting about Newtek lying and that there haven't actually been any changes isn't going to help your situation.

RedBull
05-16-2005, 08:03 PM
Ok, here is my view of the situation.

In 8.3, Newtek have basically added some get methods to the volumetric data. However, the documentation and source for this changes has not been released yet.

So in the mean time, if you want this information, email chuck or deuce about it and maybe they'll give you prerelease docs or tell you when these docs will be out. Posting about Newtek lying and that there haven't actually been any changes isn't going to help your situation.


I have not mentioned anything about Newtek lying?
Could you please quote me where i have said anything like that?

But just for you IGNORANT few people, who insist on providing me with useless information...... Maybe you should listen and learn.

Newtek and Kurtis have made a new Lightwave 8.3 with the missing SDK
stuff available for download.... (AS OF NOW)

You can read how me pointing out their mistakes, has led them to admit their mistake and to promptly rectify the situation.

Well done to NT and Kurtis......

And perhaps Karmacop and Co should really listen, and learnbefore dictating on who i should be emailing and what areas of the SDK i should be using.

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=36948
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=240754
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=36948
A Win for the little guys! (And Newtek)

Thanks i'm off to redownload 8.3 complete with the missing SDK parts...
Thanks for your useless diatribe Karmacop and HR Giger posted so far.


You can also read the enhancement now listed on the 8.3 page:

"Updated Volumetric SDK and associated documentation, see the
lwvolume.h include file, and globals:volumeeval.html SDK documentation
files for details. "


Thanks Newtek, and to the arse kissing forum memebers.

Karmacop
05-16-2005, 08:31 PM
:rolleyes: You're really not worth my time.

RedBull
05-16-2005, 09:07 PM
:rolleyes: You're really not worth my time.

Yet you keep on posting replies to me....
Then perhaps you should not of wasted your time posting
on a subjects you are not educated in (seems to be many)

Funny how you can't admit your mistakes.....
But at least Newtek have... (they seem to be grown up's)

Anyway enough said, your misinformation was shown to be incorrect,
And Newtek have now fixed my problems

Kurtis has made it clear, NT made a mistake, and it's now fixed....
Thanks heaps Newtek, for resolving the situation quickly.

It seems the wannabe fan boys anbd forum police, aren't educated
enough to offer advice.

Enough said.... Off to fix my plugin to work with FOG......Yippeee!

Chuck
05-16-2005, 10:06 PM
The work of rectifying the SDK issues was already in progress before any of the public posts on the topic, so, Scott/Redbull, those who wish to congratulate themselves are crediting themselves where it isn't due.

RedBull
05-16-2005, 10:14 PM
Surely there must be like a million projects you can do with the SDK that dont' involve some aspect of the SDK which may or may not be available yet.

HR Giger...
Our School project, Allows us to study the SDK of any program of our choosing.
Everybody had choosen After FX or Maya....

The study is not to make plugins for Lightwave (yet) but to study the SDK's
to see how, we would approach making our own for our own programs.
And to see the effects of aiding development tools for them.

The fact that Lightwave has updated it's SDK quite a bit, so far in LW 8 to 8.3
is really helpful, for my work.

Due to some confusing and sometimes misleading statements, plus some documentation problems. It can be really hard to log my progress.
We are doing stuff like flowcharting development cycles etc.

We are developing several plugins, next semester based on our SDK studies.
Exams have just been, and more are coming soon.

I do not have the luxury of starting to study the Adobe or VSTI SDK's
at this stage in my studies.

These oversights happen, but when i'm spending a lot of time
and possible lost grades for doing so, it's slowing my progress.

Anyway thanks for all the input, and to Kurtis for fixing these issues,
quickly. The fact that Karmacop seems to be trying to argue with me,
accusing me of calling people liars! etc...

If you notice, i had to download the entire 35Mb (on dialup) again.
When they should just be updating this webpage below:
http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/developer/LW80/index.html

Which has not been updates since 8.0. Again not helpfull for my work.
Anyway now the questions have been answered, and from someone qualified
to offer their opinion. (Kurtis) All is well again.

RedBull
05-17-2005, 01:14 AM
The work of rectifying the SDK issues was already in progress before any of the public posts on the topic, so, Scott/Redbull, those who wish to congratulate themselves are crediting themselves where it isn't due.



"It was brought to our attention that the 8.3 update, as provided on Monday, May 9th, did not include this particular SDK change. We investigated the issue and found that, indeed, this particular SDK enhancement was not included. As of this afternoon, we have updated the 8.3 download"

If NT were already aware of these problems before 8.3, why release 8.3(2) and then 8.3SDK again? It appears Kurtis says above "It was brought to attention" and then investigated... (meaning it wasn't known, nor investigated prior)

Who bought it to your attention? and why did you need to investigate the problem? If you already knew before any public posts? And then they fixed the problem, that they were already aware of. (and you mentioned earlier in this thread they were some changes were implemented) And they were not.
But you say you were aware?

Sorry Chuck two wrongs, don't make a right.

I think it's really quite sad, the lengths people will go to, to avoid
admitting mistakes (ask my parents!) Yet NT fixed the umm, errr....
non mistake and made it better anyway (Yay Team)

But I will say, Well done for fixing the problem, quickly after it was raised in
multiple forums. If you are serious about supporting developers, how about updating the SDK and developer section at
http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/developer/LW80/index.html

Nothing has been updated their since 8.0 (what about 8.01, 8.2, 8.21, 8.3)

I don't congratulate myself, When i'm asking legitimate questions, to a company i have paid money for a product And to to help and aid it's developers and users, after reading multiple misleading quotes from forums and press releases.

However the problem is fixed, So i thank the people who didn't bring it to your
attention, and had nothing to do with NT fixing this oversight. :)
It should not be this hard to recieve some answers, without causing a war.

I congratulate NT on fixing this problem very quickly,
Alias and Microsoft would of taken months to fix such a problem.
(if at all)

Nuff Said!

Chuck
05-17-2005, 08:23 AM
Nothing that I said was to indicate that we hadn't made a mistake; just that your public posts were not what got us started on figuring out what was going on, and you in particular are giving yourself credit you aren't due by claiming that your posts set in motion the corrective action on our part. We'd had questions both from internal sources and from other customers before you started in on the topic, and had already begun reviewing the situation.

Again, when we make mistakes, which we had in this situation, we admit them and we fix them. And people have been able to ask questions without causing a war on any number of occasions - the key is that they don't start by calling a mistake or an error a lie.

lardbros
05-17-2005, 08:59 AM
Bliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiimey!!! Calm down! It's like a kids playground in here. Maybe you should stay off the syrupy red stuff that contains caffeine, taurine and lots of sugar? :D

hrgiger
05-17-2005, 09:21 AM
Nuff Said!

Hopefully.

UnCommonGrafx
05-17-2005, 09:36 AM
Nuff Said!

Truly.


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