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Mr.BadStuff
05-08-2005, 11:38 AM
cvbcg

BazookaTooth
05-08-2005, 12:30 PM
First off, I have seen this kind of thing before in other forums and they never seem to take off. I would like to be involved in one of these projects that is REAL, not just some kid with an idea for a game. That is why I asked for your credentials, at least something about yourself. More specifically about the production, I was asking about structure of the team and what engine are you using? Where else did you post about this?

pauland
05-08-2005, 01:21 PM
At least you've decided on the most important thing - forum font colours ,always an important detail to be left out.

The fact that you're concerned with such trivia at this stage, is hardly going to inspire confidence.

Paul

Mr.BadStuff
05-08-2005, 01:23 PM
Well, I'm 16 and I pritty much have a structured idea of what I wish to do, I know I have seen these kinds of things happen all the time, Becuase I used to work for the games that were "going to come out" and none did, So therefor I said, I'm going to make my own, I know I can do it.. I just need car modelers and some programmers, We would love it if you could help us out with the game, We need all the help we can get... This game will come out if its the last thing I do...

pauland
05-08-2005, 02:11 PM
At 16 I doubt you have any idea of the amount of work involved.
At 16 you should be putting that effort into school.
At 16 you should have other priorities altogether.

Mr.BadStuff
05-08-2005, 02:43 PM
1ST OFF don't tell me what I'm capable of doing and not doing, And You doubt wrong That I don't have enough TIME. And I don't care what priorities I'm supposed to have, This is my priority now, I don't care what you think but as of now you can keep you mouth SHUT of what I can and cannot do.

somnambulance
05-08-2005, 03:13 PM
Short fuse too...

Well, as all the posts I have also seen like this before this one, I am going to call you out on it. Show us when you have something, anything (at least a model moving in the engine). I will even nudge you in the right direction; lardbros posted this link (http://dmi.chez.tiscali.fr/models1.html) in another thread, you can find some car models there and convert them for the game.

It is really funny that you have the font color already picked out for a forum.

good luck

pauland
05-08-2005, 03:22 PM
1ST OFF don't tell me what I'm capable of doing and not doing, And You doubt wrong That I don't have enough TIME. And I don't care what priorities I'm supposed to have, This is my priority now, I don't care what you think but as of now you can keep you mouth SHUT of what I can and cannot do.

LOL

You might be very capable, but I doubt you can keep this project going.
If you have lots of time to devote to this then you're missing out badly on other things.
I have no need to open my mouth when typing, thank you. I'm sure that you're [not] the kind of guy that people will want to give their time to.

Don't you have exams or something?

Mr.BadStuff
05-08-2005, 03:29 PM
At the beginning of the year... Not that concerns you at all... And yes I will keep this project going, And there you go again assuming what I can and cannot do, Or if I will be able to complete this project. I will and when it's done, I'll be laughing in YOUR face.. It dosen't matter what age you are, Just that If your devoted and that you know you can do it with positive energy, and not bad energy like yours.


Also, Computer/Programming is what almost all my friends do and they are all helping me, So therefor I'm not missing out alot... I have time when I "chill" with my "peeps", I'm not ADDICTED to the ocmputer ever day... So yeah.

Mr.BadStuff
05-08-2005, 03:32 PM
Also, Wha'ts this FORUM colour thing, I'm not talking about a forum... A CHAT.. So its online, They go chat in the chat to find races ETC..

pauland
05-08-2005, 03:33 PM
Yes, that makes all the difference..

Mr.BadStuff
05-08-2005, 03:35 PM
What's your problem... Why should you care anyway..

pauland
05-08-2005, 03:43 PM
I'd just like to say that while I'm being negative, I'm also being realistic. If you really were so well organised, then you'd be able to pick up free/cheap models on the net and use those, rather than need to ask for help. You've already demonstrated a loack of project manager people skills because at the first sight of criticism you just tell people to shut their mouth.

At 16 you really haven't got together a viable development plan to make this project work. At 16 it's hardly surprising either. People get these ideas at all kinds of ages.

Lets suppose you get even halfway there. What good will that do you in your life? There are plenty of games around, much better than your likely to produce.

If you'd wanted to develop modelling skills I'd be supportive, but your looking at a project that is really difficullt, unlikely to go anywhere (why should your friends devote the huge amount of time needed to this?) and it's not as if you haven't other things (like school) that you should be concerned about.

If you have this energy, focus it on something that will help you and your future and don't waste it on something that's going nowhere.

Mr.BadStuff
05-08-2005, 04:14 PM
Well, Let's just call it truce becuase I know I can make the project work... And It will be done. I told you to shut your mouth becuase you were making me feel like I couldn't have the project done, And If this project is so "DEAD" as you were trying to say, Then why are people always asking if they could help? I KNOW I can make this work, So let's just leave it at that. Back on topic, If any one wishes to help, Please reply with POSITIVE Comments, Also, This will benefit me.. Becuase I will earn profit from VIP Accounts, And Cars members will buy.
Please & thank you..

pauland
05-08-2005, 04:43 PM
Here's one final point. In life, we all benefit from negative comments as well as positive ones. Negative criticism is good, provided it is constructive (ie not just negative for the sake of it) because we can all learn from being told what we can improve and what isn't working.

Asking for only positive comments won't help you - it's the worst thing you can do. Accept positive comments and accept negative comments with grace too because they will help you grow and improve. One of the problems of inexperience (in any avenue of life) is that you don't know what you don't know. When you get older you'll (hopefully) realise just how much you don't know (that goes for me as well - I realise how little I know about many things).

Good luck.

Mr.BadStuff
05-08-2005, 05:35 PM
.......Thanks?

toby
05-08-2005, 11:02 PM
Yea, discouragement. That's what every motivated person needs. And he should thank you for it.

Sorry pauland, but your criticism was definitley not constructive. The only message that you gave him was : you can't do it. Give up, you should do something else. And you ridiculed him for bringing up his color sceme. These things are never, never constructive.

There are thousands of artists in the gaming industry, where do you think they all learned how to work on games? College? Don't act like gaming is a waste of time, it's a multi-billion dollar industry, and he's not just sitting around playing games either. He's trying to produce them. So what if he doesn't succeed the first time. It will teach him how to succeed the next time, or at the very least, train him to be a productive member of a bigger effort. It's stupid to give up just because you might fail - and you should know that.

There are 16yr olds who've done a lot more amazing things than an online video game, but the only 16yr olds you seem to know about would 've given you a much more foul, and much less considerate response than what you recieved for being completely negative.

You should give him credit for not blurting out - 'f*** you' and apologize for trying to discourage him.

Lamont
05-09-2005, 12:48 AM
Age should not have anything to do with a persons talents.

A racing game is very much possible. And I think one of the best genre's to tackle as a first game. It's not like he's going out to do a MMORPG ;)!!

Although I won't join, here is something that may help you:

Take the stress off the programmers by using an Open Source Engine (Torque, Ogre..). Making an engine from scratch is worst thing you can do, and could be burning the candle at both ends for your programmers.
Make things reasonable time-wise.
Baby-steps. You don't have a publisher knocking on your door yelling at you to get it done. So don't stress anyone.
Make sure you have fun.

pauland
05-09-2005, 02:44 AM
Yea, discouragement. That's what every motivated person needs. And he should thank you for it.
In this case yes.


Sorry pauland, but your criticism was definitley not constructive. The only message that you gave him was : you can't do it. Give up, you should do something else. And you ridiculed him for bringing up his color sceme. These things are never, never constructive.
Well, the questions he's asking and the approach he's taking don't make me think he'll be able to get anywhere with this. He's unable to give any details about his approach. He's looking for people to spend time and build him models but he's decided on the most trivial thing - how to colour some fonts. He is sixteen and shows enthusiasm and that's to be commended but we all know how difficullt these projects can be, particularly if your trying to co-ordinate and motivate others.

We all know that people/kids have done amazing things but there's no sign of this in the approach being taken.

If he'd said,"we've built a prototype using the XXX game engine and are racing blocks around the screen" then I'd have been more encouraging. As it is there's no sign of any organisation behind this at all.

I've been discouraging because at 16 he has (or should have) a lot of important stuff going on - like school and exams. Spending time on this and losing out at school, or in other ways would be a disaster for him. Having a half-baked idea fail won't get him into university or give him qualifications for a job. If he's bright enough to do this game, he should be bright enough to do well at school.

Perhaps you should ask what other stuff he's done so far before setting out on this very ambitious project.


There are thousands of artists in the gaming industry, where do you think they all learned how to work on games? College? Don't act like gaming is a waste of time, it's a multi-billion dollar industry, and he's not just sitting around playing games either. He's trying to produce them. So what if he doesn't succeed the first time. It will teach him how to succeed the next time, or at the very least, train him to be a productive member of a bigger effort. It's stupid to give up just because you might fail - and you should know that.
Well, you are right but you think his approach so far shows potential for success? You think he should risk school on such a badly organised scheme?


There are 16yr olds who've done a lot more amazing things than an online video game, but the only 16yr olds you seem to know about would 've given you a much more foul, and much less considerate response than what you recieved for being completely negative.
Well I did get told to shut my mouth, so he's on his way. Yes there are 16year olds who've done great things, but I doubt they'd have gone for choosing font colours as a first step..


You should give him credit for not blurting out - 'f*** you' and apologize for trying to discourage him.
I'll pass on that idea. I will however encourage him to look towards something far less ambitious so that he can have a chance at success.

Neither of us really know this kid. He may be some game genius who works in an unorganised way and will be laughing all the way while he builds a team that produces a great system.

He may be the kid that wastes the next six months trying to make it work, screqws up at school and has all his free developers lose interest and pull out after seeing it's going nowhere.

It may be that next week he meets some girl and decides that going to the movies is so much more fun.

Either way the comments I've made and those who've supported his efforts will give him something to think about. If he's put off by what I've said he really shouldn't be doing it should he?

Quite honestly I'd love him to succeed at this, but everything that he's said makes me think he shouldn't be doing it at all and I won't help him screw up the rest of his life by risking his school work for this.

Mr.BadStuff
05-09-2005, 02:39 PM
Paul, Why should you care what my FUTURE Will be like? I'm passing all my classes and al my mid terms are done.

Thanks Toby And Lamont

But You DON'T know how far I have got in the game, And you DON'T know I'm just asking people to build me the game.. I just don't want you to reply to this forum topic any more, Your pissing me off so bad, And Toby is right I didn't say Inapropriate things to you.

Now, If any one wishes to help, Please reply to the topic. Thanks.

toby
05-09-2005, 04:00 PM
In this case yes.
That's Bull****. A belittling attitude doesn't do anyone any good.



Well, the questions he's asking and the approach he's taking don't make me think he'll be able to get anywhere with this.
I've been discouraging because at 16 he has (or should have) a lot of important stuff going on - like school and exams.
So you should make him feel useless? Are you listening to yourself?
Or, no 16yr olds should have hobbies or date or do anything but school, is that it?



Spending time on this and losing out at school, or in other ways would be a disaster for him.
'Other ways' - you mean that gaming is the least important thing he could be doing. You need to get over the idea that gaming is a waste of time. It's a closed-minded opinion. And no, I'm not a even gamer.



Having a half-baked idea fail won't get him into university or give him qualifications for a job.
The **** it won't give him qualifications for a job.
"Created Glued Petal, online racing game and carried to prototype" or "assembled team of programmers" You assume too much.



If he's bright enough to do this game, he should be bright enough to do well at school.
And achieve every gamers dream, to be an Accountant or a Doctor.



Well, you are right but you think his approach so far shows potential for success? You think he should risk school on such a badly organised scheme?
Who says that this is risking his schoolwork? How do you know know this? Schools always want students to do extra-curricular acivities, and for good reason. And how do you know it's badly organized?



Well I did get told to shut my mouth, so he's on his way.
Notice that he recieved 2 degrading posts from you before doing so, and responded the way anyone of any age would have. He was very tolerant of you, and even offered a truce after your third rude post, and you won't even give him credit for it.



Yes there are 16year olds who've done great things, but I doubt they'd have gone for choosing font colours as a first step..
I'm sure none of them ever made a single mistake either.



If he's put off by what I've said he really shouldn't be doing it should he?
That's ridiculous, could I degrade you, then tell you it shows that you shouldn't do 3D?



Quite honestly I'd love him to succeed at this, but everything that he's said makes me think he shouldn't be doing it at all and I won't help him screw up the rest of his life by risking his school work for this.
Where do you get this idea that producing a game will 'screw up his life'?? It's ridiculous!

pauland
05-09-2005, 04:23 PM
Hmm..

Paul, Why should you care what my FUTURE Will be like? I'm passing all my classes and al my mid terms are done.
Great - I'm pleased to hear it.


But You DON'T know how far I have got in the game, And you DON'T know I'm just asking people to build me the game..
Well from what you have said: "But we can't have anything done untill we get enough programmers" and Bazooka Tooths request:"I was asking about structure of the team and what engine are you using?" getting no reply, it didn't seem like you'd done very much.


I just don't want you to reply to this forum topic any more, Your pissing me off so bad
I'll leave you to get on with it, though it's not your choice whether I can respond or not.

pauland
05-09-2005, 04:33 PM
Toby - it's a bit of an overreaction and we'll agree to differ.

If he can hang this project together it will be a great acheivement. My primary concern was that doing it would impact badly on other parts of his life because a project like this can take over. It would seem that he's got that under control.

I don't want him to be an accountant, but I'd hate that in two years time he couldn't be one (or be something else or couldn't go to college) - even if he wanted to - because his school stuff had suffered because of this gaming project.

I still feel that in three months time the project won't exist. More power to him if it does.

Anyway I've said my piece and perhaps Mr. badstuff will prove me wrong - he certainly knows he's got support, even if it's not coming from me.

Paul

somnambulance
05-09-2005, 08:53 PM
I fell out of my chair laughing at this one.

- Toby, good point and sick reel.
- Mr. BadStuff, I hope you stick to your guns and prove pauland wrong!
- Pauland, I am glad your sticking to your guns and your probably right.

WizCraker
05-10-2005, 04:17 AM
Well what an interesting read. If you are still with us I would suggest you take a look over here (http://www.garagegames.com/pg/product/view.php?id=1).

The above link is to Torgue Game Engine it is better to spend $100 per programmer for your project than to waste your life on trying to create an Engine from scratch. That takes many years of programming expertise and money. The above link is for the Indie License, don't take this the wrong way but I highly doubt if you complete your project that it will have memberships with profits any where near the $250,000 cap.

Don't take that statement as what you can or can not do, it is simply just reality.

You first have to understand the industry before you can compete in it. Yes the industry is Multi-billion per year but so is the Porn Industry, the playing field is far more complicated than what most young enthusiast understand. In todays market the average game takes two to three years to complete with a cost around US$5 Million. Sometimes it is cheaper and sometimes it is more. That is more of a median cost value. These games are also produced with the backing of distributors and usually have a team of programmers, artisits, designers on staff to get the product completeted and shipped.

It is getting harder and harder for a small group of individuals such as yourself and friends to make a game that can compete with the likes of the mainstream developers that understand the hard work and hours that they need to put in to the project in order to have the best product possible.

The people that develope games are skilled at what they do. Programmers have expert knowledge of their language [usually C++], the artist are skilled at what they do either it be modeling animating or both, producers are the ones with the managment skills they make sure the development does not get derailed. Game Developers some of the highest paid because of what they know, not because they all have a like minded idea of creating games.

For every single Game project that gets started there are at least 10 that fail.

That being said, this is no walk in the park. From your post it appears you are not fully prepared and have not done your research on what is needed in order to recurite profressionals for your project. I would suggest that you go to the link above and check out the Torgue Engine also while you are there check out their forums. There you will find people that are willing to join projects of free.

Paul makes some good points, if you are interested in learning more about game development stay on top of your studies as that will make your career. More and more studios in game development are looking for not just pure talent but yes even a collage degree it shows that you have the dedication for completion and not just blinded lust for working in the industry. Programmers usually have CS degrees specialized in certain areas like AI, Graphics, Networking et cetra. Artist have to have traditional art skills that they can show.

I would suggest you look at some of the following programs after highschool that will help your chances with an entry level position within the Game Industry.

The first is from Austin Community College Game Development Certification (http://www.austin.cc.tx.us/techcert/Video_Games.html) Don't make the community college or the word certificatation to discourage you from this one. It just means in is Certificate for Continue Education.

ACC has over 30,000 students [is in Austin Texas] as you will discover from the link this program is in partnership with the game developers in the Austin Texas area. The instructors are actual game developers still working in the industry with the main players being Microsoft's Digital Anvil, NCSoft [They did City of Heros], Midway [which just opened a major studio in the Austin Area], Sony Online Entertainment [Ever hear of Everquest? The artist part of the studio are in Austin].

This program takes someone that has some skills and produces soemone that has skills to get an entry level position. Also pluses are the internships that you make get while going through the program. Either it be as a producer, designer, programmer or artist. At the end of the program the last class takes one person from each of the four fields above and you create a game in a short production time.

The second program is The Guildhall program (http://guildhall.smu.edu/welcome.php).

Don't expect to walk in to this program with ease, they only take 100 applicants at a time. This has partnerships with companies like id Software, Ensemble Studios, Ritual Entertainment, Gearbox Software. It is in Plano, TX and part of SMU. Right now it is a graduate level certificate program with later being a Graduate Degree [Masters], the option of certificate only will still be available.

This program is intense and expensive, it will give you the same skills as the ACC program but with more empahsises on interning at the studios.

The difference between the two is that ACC is a few months shorter and saves you about $20,000 in tuition. SMU is expensive and The Ghildhall is $38,000 for the 21 month program that is not including housing. Both give you access to work with Industry profressionals. Austin, TX and Dallas, TX is a hot spot for Game Developers you can find more developers with shipped titles here per square mile than probably any other place.

Take Pauls Advice stay on top of your studies, ambitions are good but sometimes takeing a bigger bite of something will doom you before even starting.

Adrian Lopez
05-15-2005, 01:37 AM
Mr.BadStuff,

I agree completely with Toby and Lamont's comments, but I believe you're thinking too far ahead. Even at this early stage you're already thinking of chat rooms, beta releases, game magazines and deals with car companies. While it's good to think ahead and define your goals, it's important not to lose sight of your immediate concerns.

I say that because I suffer from the same problem. I define goals and come up with ideas so I end up with something that looks like a plan, but the plan is just a house of cards if there's no foundation.

Worry about chat rooms, betas, magazines and car companies once you have something to show people, but in the meantime just concentrate on addressing your immediate concerns. You can use dummy objects (boxes for the car's body, cylinders for the tires) and create a little prototype. Once you have a working prototype, take the source code and put it on a CVS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CVS) server where others can contribute to the project. Once you have that you are much more likely to find people (programmers and modelers) to work on your game (I doubt you'll be able to strike a deal with car companies, but you never know). You have to contribute something yourself before people will contribute to your cause.

At some point you have to stop thinking and start doing.