PDA

View Full Version : Someday it will be standard



I.C.UpsetPeople
04-24-2005, 02:35 PM
I want to be able to paint all my textures in the UV Map window with all the tools from photoshop and be able to change the opacity of the UV map AND be able to adjust the UV map at any time while painting AND be able to see your 3d image in another window AS YOUR PAINTING.

Panikos
04-25-2005, 12:14 AM
I understand this need, but come on !
Lets not make LW Photoshop.

Its better having specialized software for painting and specialized software for 3d.
Having all in one weakens both aspects.

Fujio has a primitive painting plugin but its not photoshop.
You may paint some marks using this plugin and then continue in Photoshop.

Chris S. (Fez)
04-25-2005, 12:45 AM
Max has a very cool plugin called ghostpainter that allows you to paint with photoshop directly in the Max viewport. Perfect for dual monitor setups. Here's hoping the next incarnation of the HUB will allow a similar connection to Lightwave.

Nemoid
04-26-2005, 01:22 PM
the real good think should be to introduce good paint tools in Lw. just like it happens to be in z brush! BTW the two work very good together :)

I.C.UpsetPeople
04-27-2005, 03:47 PM
Here's hoping the next incarnation of the HUB will allow a similar connection to Lightwave.

Yeah, even not having to shut down all of lightwave (modeler, layout and hub) in order to save in photoshop so you can see your textures would be nice. Having a "Synchronize Layout" button in Photoshop, that would be SICK! Just to avoid shutting LW down I always make a mess of files when I am texturing something I just can't get right. Then there is a mess of files loaded into LW that I am not using, its just a pain.


Having all in one weakens both aspects.

You mean you think, or do you know from experience? I want the power of photoshop in my UV texture window, not a little of photoshop and a little of lightwave. Yes it is far fetched, but I am going to request it anyway. Your attitude gives permission to not add it in the future.

Panikos
04-28-2005, 02:30 AM
How much money and human resources had Adobe invested in Photoshop ?
What about tradition ?
Do you think Newtek is as big as Adobe ?

It will take at least 18 months for Newtek to develop a decent painting tool as you want it, and it wont be Photoshop !
What about the other needs ? It will stay on hold until Painting is ready.

Competition is wild, if you dont push all the aspects in parallel, people will jump in other 3d-apps.

Its easy to ask requests, its better to imagine the potential development,
the cost involved.

I've been asking SMALL requests for years. I can say that they were considered, but only 20% were implemented cause I am not alone in this world.

Mylenium
04-28-2005, 04:56 AM
A paint module/ plugin can never be like Photoshop.

a) Having all features just for completeness' sake is a waste of resources.

b) Even if a) didn't apply there is little chance that you are ever going to need all features.

c) There are other things that are more important than some floating palettes and toyish brush tips when texture painting like how your texture spreads in UV space etc.. The program constantly needs to check this and if you want an interactive update in a 3D view, it slows down.

Mylenium

tischbein3
04-28-2005, 06:40 AM
usually i hate destroying user requests....

d) other (lw supporting) applications are aviable wich are specialised on this, and gone through the whole bug proof / optimisation. its like reinventing the wheel in the time of antigravity devices.

e) think practical: where do you do your main the texturing work ? in layout or modeler ? If I would still have to constantly switch to modeler for texturing, I would have no advantage in comparison of running a third program.

f) there even several freeware projects running wich will do the same in the near future. So you can save the money spending for such an "major release" feature.

I wanted to add a g) but I'm just a bit to tired to get it together.....


At Chris S. Fez.: This is something wich was going through my mind some times before... its really sad seeing the potential of the Hub concept so barely untouched....

ivanze
04-28-2005, 08:00 AM
If im not wrong, there was a way to connect LW with Aura before.
Is that right?

I.C.UpsetPeople
04-28-2005, 08:59 AM
How much money and human resources had Adobe invested in Photoshop ?
What about tradition ?
Do you think Newtek is as big as Adobe ?


1) dont know, dont care.
2) what about it?
3) no, do you?

texturing should be easier, but i guess for the sake of tradition, we should keep doing it the hard way.


A paint module/ plugin can never be like Photoshop.

your right, but having some of the tools would be nice.


usually i hate destroying user requests....

you're giving your self an awful lot of credit there. in response to: d) name the program (it still ins't a part of lightwave), and "reinventing the wheel in the time of antigravity devices" is a stupid thing to say with no backing. e) i do my uv mapping in modeler, layout and in photoshop. i wish i didnt have to fuss with so many programs, thats why i made this request. you must have a trick to adjust your uv's in layout? f) again, you didnt name a program, and it is something "in the future". g) you havent a solid argument, but your probably a big deal so we should respect your opinion anyway?

tischbein3
04-28-2005, 06:34 PM
you're giving your self an awful lot of credit there. in response to: d) name the program (it still ins't a part of lightwave), and "reinventing the wheel in the time of antigravity devices" is a stupid thing to say with no backing. e) i do my uv mapping in modeler, layout and in photoshop. i wish i didnt have to fuss with so many programs, thats why i made this request. you must have a trick to adjust your uv's in layout? f) again, you didnt name a program, and it is something "in the future". g) you havent a solid argument, but your probably a big deal so we should respect your opinion anyway?

Well ok, lets make it the more descriptive way (after some sleep):
One thing you have to accept here (I think everyone had made this experience):
If you post here, you get to face people wich starts to deconstruct your ideas.
and I tried to us these introductionary words primarly for an excuse, because I know it is frustrating when this happens.

d) Products, like the one mentioned above, or bodypaint3d, have been out for several years. (If you want product names.) They are really not bad and really useable in the things they do, but even those are no replacement for photoshop. (and do intended to be)

Look at long road down to the various 2D aplications aviable: In the more than "10 year pole position" of photoshop, no single 2d application really archived the same quality and functionality. Another "almost" like, wich also will have certain have impact on the perfomance ressource needs of the original intended functions (modeling) is nothing I would like to see....

e) Well this is something wich goes into product / consumer philosophy; You either like to have a "One product fits all" or the more multi programm > multipurpose aditude.

I'm certainly be with the second group, because of much more than just the "I like it so" additude:
Its cheaper, more powerfull and the programs are specialised / optimised to the tasks I want to have them, and finaly I don't have to rely on one company in the production process. (If you wish I can explain it in detail, but only if you wish)
and I think this is one of the main reason why I felt in love with modeler.

And no, I don't have a trick to adjust uv coordinates in layout. And this is why I did agree to a feature request to scale them in layout last month.

I was trying to to point out, that you will still have to swith between programs.

Names (who need names in times of a 3 minute google search :) )

- There plans for the comming Cinepaint releases.
http://cinepaint.bigasterisk.com/CinePaintRoadmap
- Tattoo 3d http://www.terabit.nildram.co.uk/tattoo/
- meshpainter http://www.ox.compsoc.net/~geoffrey/meshpainter.html

There more, this was just a quick search....

It wasn't planed as a personal attack, and it's good to discuss it because something could evolve out of such stuff. (Even something you didn't expect)
maybe your request could be something for their comming inspire3d version,....
from the philosophic approach they slightly drafted in their announcements, it could fit towards it.

I.C.UpsetPeople
04-28-2005, 08:16 PM
and here I was getting frustrated with both tischbein3 and Panikos and come to find out that you've both been members of this forum since 03' and neither of you HAVE ANY ARTWORK POSTED!!!! Do you use lightwave or do you dink around in it so you can come on to this forum and argue? you might want to get some more sleep and use lightwave a little bit and come back and tell me you wouldnt like paint features in the UV window OR the ability update your textures without having to reload LW.

tischbein3 - you're just a dork that likes to argue, you should go read the thread from begining to end and think over what you just wrote.

Panikos
04-28-2005, 08:20 PM
Carry on boy with such attitute

I dont need your certificate to evaluate my work

tischbein3
04-28-2005, 08:32 PM
yes.

.

.

tischbein3
04-28-2005, 08:55 PM
on the thing, i like to discuss, and need more sleep

I.C.UpsetPeople
04-28-2005, 08:55 PM
Carry on boy with such attitute

I dont need your certificate to evaluate my work

i am a girl. its not my certificate, its your own - you dont have any credibility, thats all.

Panikos
04-28-2005, 09:41 PM
ic the lack of sex justifies your behaviour :D

Mylenium
04-28-2005, 11:25 PM
and here I was getting frustrated with both tischbein3 and Panikos and come to find out that you've both been members of this forum since 03' and neither of you HAVE ANY ARTWORK POSTED!!!!

Whoa, that's a big bucketload of BS!!! Many people work for a living under NDAs and never have the chance to show their stuff publicly, including myself. You may say: "Well, then do something in your spare time!" but I think I've got better things to do than spend even the last hour in front of the computer just do something in order to satisfy people like you or my own ego.

Mylenium

I.C.UpsetPeople
04-29-2005, 09:26 AM
"Well, then do something in your spare time!"

you cant tell me you haven't done anything you weren't assigned over the last two years?

tischbein3
04-29-2005, 08:02 PM
Well nothing kids should look at..... :D

Now honestly:

if this would be the gallery section, and we would start a flame war about your work, this argument would count,...but we're in the feature request asylum:

And I don't even think you did a honestly wanted request, because you didn't really defended your idea....but your opinion:
Because when we expressed our doubts, and the consequences wich we fear could evolve by your request. (and even tried to help you as far as we could)
you only strenghted it with this "cliche of a troll" behaviour.

Luckyly I'm not in the decission process.
But I can make some contributions, by agree or disagree to some, or place own requests. (And this is allways better than saying nothing)

These can be rational and well argumented, or irrational.... (I believe the more rational ones have a bigger chances).

personal attacks are getting quickly boring and will neither help your karma, nor your request.....convince me I'm in, convice me not.... well nada.